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Chronos
2008-02-18, 08:13 PM
I'm looking for a class for a theoretical build I'm working on, that must meet the following requirements:

A: It advances sorcerer spellcasting
B: It gives access to Open Lock and Disable Device as class skills
C: It's not restricted by race
D: (and this is the kicker) It's available to a Lawful Good character (otherwise, Arcane Trickster would work fine)

Ideally, it'd also have few or no feat requirements for entry (but I'm flexible on that point). Spell or skill requirements are fine. Does any such class exist?

Alternately, if such a class does not exist, does there exist any class (base or prestige) which doesn't advance spellcasting, but has full BAB (and all of the other requirements above)?

AslanCross
2008-02-18, 08:31 PM
Beguiler would meet these requirements except it has a limited (but not really) spell list. It doesn't use the same spell list but has a class feature that allows it to learn a few spells that aren't on their spell list to begin with.

Squash Monster
2008-02-18, 08:37 PM
It only half does what you're looking for and is limited to humans, but if you're looking at a human character, does Able Learner help?

If not, the best I can find is half of your secondary request: an alternative class feature for Ranger, which you can find in Dungeonscape, makes you lose Track and gain Disable Device.

mikeejimbo
2008-02-18, 08:51 PM
Ask your DM to make an exception on the Arcane Trickster?

valadil
2008-02-18, 09:16 PM
I'll second Beguiler, but see if you can take a bloodline feat from dragon compendium. They give you a new spell at each level and are wonderful for spontaneous casters. I'm particularly fond of the penumbral and necro bloodlines.

Chrismith
2008-02-18, 09:34 PM
Nightsong Enforcer and Streetfighter, both from Complete Adventurer, fulfill your second request (full BAB). I think I remember a Dragon magazine class that might meet your first requirements (spellcasting); I'll see if I can dig it up.

Chronos
2008-02-18, 09:34 PM
Again, it needs to advance Sorcerer spellcasting, not just give a casting progression of its own. So Beguiler is out. And I can't "ask the DM", since this is a theoretical build, and there isn't really a DM.

Able Learner is also out, since the character isn't human, but a feat which makes those two into class skills would be fine (well, I'd rather not spend a feat on it, but...)

The alternate ranger feature might work, though... I don't suppose it gains Open Lock, too? Probably too much to hope for.

Chrismith
2008-02-18, 10:36 PM
Success! The class is called Magic Filcher, and is found on page 73 of Dragon #310. It's a 5-level PrC that requires 10 ranks of Disable Device, 8 ranks of Knowledge (arcana), and 5 ranks each of Spellcraft and UMD, plus the ability to cast arcane spells. It has no race, alignment, or feat requirements, and has both Open Lock and Disable Device on its class skill list. The only catch is that spellcasting is only advanced on odd levels, meaning that you'll lose 2 caster levels overall.

Another class I came across that might bear mentioning is the Memory Smith from Dragon 311, another 5-level PrC. It requires a few skills, a good alignment and that the character worship Moradin, though it doesn't actually specifiy that being a dwarf is necessary. It also has Open Lock and Disable Device on its skill list, and has full BAB. The catch with this one is that while it advances spellcasting at each level, it specifically advances bard casting, not sorcerer or wizard. So probably not what you're looking for, but I thought it was worth pointing out.

Chronos
2008-02-19, 01:11 AM
Ah, thank you, Chrismith! That will do nicely. A pity about the 3/5 spellcasting, but I can get most of what I need from a single-level dip. Does it have any other notable abilities at level 1?

TheOOB
2008-02-19, 01:24 AM
For the record, the alignment requirement of the trickster is fairly nonsensical and most DMs would houserule it out. Because that class exists, there are few other classes that fit that archtype, the arcane trickster is so elegant its hard to make another version that does that same job and it worth taking without being way more powerful.

Chrismith
2008-02-19, 07:22 AM
Ah, thank you, Chrismith! That will do nicely. A pity about the 3/5 spellcasting, but I can get most of what I need from a single-level dip. Does it have any other notable abilities at level 1?

It's 1st level ability is Detect Magic as a spell-like ability:


At 1st level, the magic filcher may act as though under the effects of a detect magic spell cast by a sorcerer of a level equal to the magic filcher's. The magic filcher may use this ability 3 times per day.

Gaiwecoor
2008-02-19, 09:39 AM
Here's another version (forgive me for not having my books on hand, I think this is accurate, though):

Class: Sorcerer
Feat: Cosmopolitan (The FRCS version, not Player's Guide to Faerun.).

Done.

If I recall correctly, Cosmopolitan lets you pick two skills as class skills. If I'm right on that, all requirements are satisfied with a single feat. :smallbiggrin:

[EDIT]

Ah - apparently it only lets you pick one skill as a class skill, with a +2 bonus on it. I guess you would need to take it twice to make it work.

Person_Man
2008-02-19, 10:14 AM
Here's another version (forgive me for not having my books on hand, I think this is accurate, though):

Class: Sorcerer
Feat: Cosmopolitan (The FRCS version, not Player's Guide to Faerun.).

Done.

If I recall correctly, Cosmopolitan lets you pick two skills as class skills. If I'm right on that, all requirements are satisfied with a single feat. :smallbiggrin:

[EDIT]

Ah - apparently it only lets you pick one skill as a class skill, with a +2 bonus on it. I guess you would need to take it twice to make it work.

It only lets you choose 1 class Skill, and its 3.0 material.

Also, why would you care about Open Lock and Disable Device? You have access to Knock, Shatter, and Summon spells. Do you need it for entry into another PrC I'm not aware of?

Chronos
2008-02-19, 07:52 PM
Also, why would you care about Open Lock and Disable Device? You have access to Knock, Shatter, and Summon spells. Do you need it for entry into another PrC I'm not aware of?Because it's for a build which is supposed to be able to handle any situation, and I'd rather not settle for second-best. Properly-maximized skills are more reliable than the equivalent spells.

Person_Man
2008-02-20, 11:12 AM
Because it's for a build which is supposed to be able to handle any situation, and I'd rather not settle for second-best. Properly-maximized skills are more reliable than the equivalent spells.

Well, yes and no.

Certainly Listen, Spot, and Search tend to be far more reliable then relying on various spells.

But Knock (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/knock.htm) works on every possible door automatically. Shatter (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/shatter.htm) automatically works against any non-magical object. And Dispel Magic (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/dispelMagic.htm) can suppress any magic item. So for the cost of three low level spells (two of which are highly useful for other things anyway), you really never need to take Open Lock.

Disable Device is debatable. I'm of the opinion that once you locate a trap, you can just use a low level summons to set it off. You can even take the Elemental Reserve feat to get unlimited small elementals to do this for you. If you're worried about stealth, cast Silence on it before it sets it off. But really, who cares if the entire dungeon knows that you're there? Unless your entire party is using stealth tactics, there's no reason to hide your presence. Then entire dungeon is going to know you're there as soon as you have your first combat encounter.

But if your DM uses a ton of locks and traps, then I can certainly see why you'd want the Skills. It's just been my personal experience that DMs tend to use 1 or 2 per game day, and that's it. And if that's the case, there's no reason to use some crazy class or PrC just to get a few Skills that you might use occasionally. Though obviously your results may vary.

Telonius
2008-02-20, 12:47 PM
Huh, board must have eaten my post from yesterday. Evereskan Tomb Guardian (PGF) is another option. It is from Faerun, you do have to be an elf, and there are a couple minor feats required. Otherwise it fits the bill.

Severus
2008-02-20, 12:55 PM
Ask your DM to make an exception on the Arcane Trickster?

Seriously. Alignment restrictions on classes like this are generally stupid.

I played a lawful evil Arcane Trickster, and there was nothing about the class that didn't work with the character's alignment.

They're just a set of abilities. How you use them is what matters.