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CockroachTeaParty
2008-02-18, 09:40 PM
I've a quick question to ask you good people.

Out of boredom and curiosity, I'm slowly constructing level 20 masters of the nine different disciplines from the Tome of Battle. They will face each other in a series of duels, until the ultimate victor stands triumphant. Each will of course be wielding the legacy weapon associated with their school.

While this has been easy enough for most of the nine schools, it would seem White Raven is off at a slight disadvantage, seeing as how most of its abilities are reliant upon helping other people fight better. As a level 20 character with 760,000 gp to spend, what is the best item for summoning allies to aid him in battle?

Ideally, I'd like to have an item that allows him to summon a few allies, enough so that his maneuvers can make a difference, but not so powerful as to overwhelm his opponents. Whether or not this master of White Raven will be a Crusader or Warblade I'm yet to decide, but any thoughts on the subject would be greatly appreciated.

Xefas
2008-02-18, 09:52 PM
When you say "masters" do you mean they will only be able to use maneuvers/stances from their discipline? or will they know all of the maneuvers from their discipline + others to fill up their empty slots? or will they only know primarily maneuvers from their discipline, but they need not know them all, and thus have more free slots?

CockroachTeaParty
2008-02-18, 10:02 PM
Well, thematically I'm trying to limit them to maneuvers from their chosen discipline, but they will have other maneuvers from other disciplines to fill in the gaps, especially when swordsages are considered. For instance, the Master of Devoted Spirit is finished, and while he primarily has Devoted Spirit maneuvers, he has some Stone Dragon sprinkled in. The White Raven master will probably have SD or DS if he's a Crusader, or perhaps Iron Heart if he's a Warblade.

Also, they will all have the Tactical Feats associated with their school, as well as any other feats that meet the theme.

Idea Man
2008-02-18, 10:08 PM
Leadership. Fair play says the cohort should be either of the same school or the one that would benefit the most from his master's aid.

If you don't mind something unfair, a cohort full divine caster, rapid spell summon monster spells, DMM quickened boost spells (for the cohort, first and foremost; also, a couple extra nightsticks).

If you want completely unfair, a cohort full arcane caster with gate. :smallamused:

Iku Rex
2008-02-18, 10:12 PM
The Horn of Valhalla (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#hornofValhalla) would fit, but it's overpriced and even the 5th level barbarians won't make much of a difference in a level 20 battle.

Leadership is the obvious answer - a swarm of followers and a high level cohort would be a big help. It is not a feat intended to be balanced in the same way as Combat Expertise or Power Attack though. It might skew the battle too much in the White Raven guy's favor.

You could buy him some construct henchmen. Stone golems, nimblewrights (MM2, see 3.5 update) or effigies (CArc) are possible candidates, depending on how important you want them to be and how much you want to spend.

Xefas
2008-02-18, 10:14 PM
Leadership. Fair play says the cohort should be either of the same school or the one that would benefit the most from his master's aid.

If you don't mind something unfair, a cohort full divine caster, rapid spell summon monster spells, DMM quickened boost spells (for the cohort, first and foremost; also, a couple extra nightsticks).

If you want completely unfair, a cohort full arcane caster with gate. :smallamused:

You don't even really need the cohort. Have ALL your followers be Warlocks of the various levels.

Step 1) Use "Leading the Attack" or "Vanguard Strike"
Step 2) Warlocks hit for 50d6 Eldritch Blast Damage
Step 3) Repeat

Sofaking
2008-02-18, 10:24 PM
Would the Figurines of Wondrous Power (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#figurinesofWondrousPower) work for you?

Annarrkkii
2008-02-18, 10:27 PM
Leadership is never the answer.

Are these characters straight Iniator, or are they seasoned with prestige classes and other PC class levels. The latter of the two is actually more optimal, really, since so many maneuvers mesh well with class features that straight initiators don't have access to. Giving the Tiger Claw master some Barbarian or Ranger, maybe a touch of Tempest, and seasoned with a little Blooclaw Master, will make him both more thematically Tiger Claw-ish, and possibly even more powerful. Admittedly, in the spirit of the trial, you probably want to keep all the builds as having access to at least one ninth level maneuver. Actually, having only the one from their school might be the most credible, meaning you can afford to go with Initiator classes to 14 with 6 levels of non-Initiator classes.

The White Raven character is definitely at a disadvantage in one-on-one duels, and that disadvantage is one that it is very difficult to overcome through multiclassing or feat selection. One possibility would be to make the competition take place over multiple challenges, one of which would include marginally-massed combat. Another would be to have, instead of the masters facing off against eachother, give each one a "lair" customized to suit them, and test them against powerful challengers—seeing how each one holds up. That is, however, not really what you're going for here.

I suppose you could have him use his WBL to hire a pair of solid mercs for the combat—mid-teens in level, preferably melee. Heck, let both him and his opponent have a few evenly matched compatriots. That will allow the White Raven to demonstrate his talent by turning an otherwise evenly-matched fight between the two parties in his favor by bolstering his allies, while the opponent initiator demonstrates his prowess by compensating for a lopsided matchup of allies with his personal prowess.

ShneekeyTheLost
2008-02-18, 10:50 PM
Actually, with Leadership, your best bet would be a Rogue for an ally.

Clarion Call (the feat, not the ability). Intimidate check to declare your opponent flat footed. Sneak attacks ensue. Or, if you don't want to do that, branch out by getting the stance Island of Blades so that you flank much easier for your rogue buddy.

CockroachTeaParty
2008-02-19, 12:08 AM
I did consider leadership, but I fear it is not the best option.

As for the character builds themselves, they are actually just going straight 20 in whatever class they are. I realize that the Tiger Claw master might benefit from Bloodclaw Master, and I even considered tossing in a Master of Nine, but then he wouldn't have a Legacy Weapon (a blessing in some respects).

Hmm... Well, I was considering one of those crazy elemental summoning items...

At any rate, I plan on posting the results when I'm finished. They all started with the Elite Array for ability scores, and I'm using the equipment arrays from the PHB II (with a lot more extra items thrown in to compensate).

By the way, what environment should they face off in? The Shadow Hand, Setting Sun, and even the Tiger Claw masters could use terrain and cover to their advantage. So many possibilities...

My initial predictions are that the Master of Devoted Spirit will win. He can just soak up so much damage that it's going to be tough to bring him down.

EDIT:

The Setting Sun, Shadow Hand, and Desert Wind masters must be Swordsages, the Devoted Spirit master must be a Crusader, and the Iron Heart master must be a Warblade.

Any opinions on what the last few masters should be?

I'm considering letting the White Raven master be a Crusader, since it's the most survivable of the classes, and he seems to be at a disadvantage (as it stands).

Annarrkkii
2008-02-20, 06:46 AM
Crusader for Stone Dragon, White Raven, and Devoted Spirit; Warblade for Iron Heart, Tiger Claw, and Diamond Mind; Swordsage for Desert Wind, Shadow Hand, and Setting Sun. Or at least, that makes the most sense to me. A three-three-three split may be more symmetrical than you were looking for.

Sofaking
2008-02-20, 09:36 AM
By the way, what environment should they face off in? The Shadow Hand, Setting Sun, and even the Tiger Claw masters could use terrain and cover to their advantage. So many possibilities...


Maybe you should also construct a few random stages to fight in and prior to the battle roll randomly.