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Legoshrimp
2008-02-19, 07:50 PM
I am planning on running the dark and stormy knight adventure from Wizards. I will only be having two pcs. they will be a paladin and a rogue. Is there any way I can run the adventure without npcs or just a cleric or some other healer? Any help would be apreciated. Oh yeah both pcs are pretty inexperieced.

I would also like to know if there are any good free adventures online. (except the ones from wizards. I know about them.)

Jakezor
2008-02-19, 08:13 PM
Easy Solution: Let them be 'Gist characters

Paladin/Cleric and Rogue/Mage could work well without any NPC help...
Gist Rogue/Mage is the ultimate batman, and Paladin/Cleric is a self-buffing self-healing blender of righeous doom.

Check the Unearthed Aracan stuff for gist character info:

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/gestaltCharacters.htm

The players will probably love it, its essentially a massive power boost.

If you don't want to run Gist for some reason, NPC Wizard+Cleric is probably the easyest bet. heck, each player could controll 2 characters and you'd need zero npcs.

Legoshrimp
2008-02-19, 08:58 PM
That sounds like a good idea, but how much more complicated would it make it for the pcs? I am not sure how well the one player would be able to control one character so that rules them both controling two characters. I will stat out gist characters and see if they are way more coplicated to run. Thinking more about through the one player could handle it well enough, and the other character will already need help so doing this will only really put more work on myself. I will think about trying the gist characters.

Thanks.

Edit: I have talked to the paladin and he with this thinks that a fighter/cleric would be better. Also I thought that since I want these characters to be really powerfull I might want to give them 5d6 best of three instead of 4d6 any ideas?

Iku Rex
2008-02-19, 09:32 PM
Let the players run level 3 characters. Should be about right.

Devils_Advocate
2008-02-20, 01:08 PM
I think Iku Rex has the right idea. If the players are still fairly new to the game, it's probably best for them to become familiar with the standard rules before exploring a variant like gestalt characters. So if you want to make them more powerful to compensate for there only being two, just give them an extra level or two. If you're worried about healing, maybe you could convince the paladin's player to play a cleric (of Heironeous, if he likes the Paladin class for its ideology) or a multiclassed fighter/cleric. Cleric and Rogue would be my classes of choice for a two-person party.

And if you want powerful characters, then sure, use 5d6 drop two lowest, and/or "reroll 1s", or a high point buy.

AKA_Bait
2008-02-20, 02:42 PM
Alternativley give them a bunch of free potions, or an eternal wand of cure moderate wounds.

Legoshrimp
2008-02-20, 04:23 PM
You are probally right about not starting them with Gestalt characters. In learning the game what would they lose starting at third level instead of level one? What are the rules for the eternal wands and what book are they in? I think the rules are they can cast the spell 3/day but I am not sure? So two level three pcs is pretty close to four first level pcs? I will think about doing it that way instead of Gestalt.

How should I give the pcs treasure with there only being two of them. should I just cut the treasure thre already is in the adventure in have or if they start at level three leave the treasure how it is?

Another question is does anyone know how long the adventure normally takes?

hawkboy772042
2008-02-20, 04:24 PM
Actually, I was able to run the adventure for a level 1 gnome sorcerer and he was able to get through it. (Color sprays kicks butt and you just have know how to run away from a fight...)

Starbuck_II
2008-02-20, 04:37 PM
Actually, I was able to run the adventure for a level 1 gnome sorcerer and he was able to get through it. (Color sprays kicks butt and you just have know how to run away from a fight...)

How did the Gnome beat the undead? They aren't affected by Color spray?

hawkboy772042
2008-02-20, 04:46 PM
How did the Gnome beat the undead? They aren't affected by Color spray?

Oh... the guy simply ran away then climbed up the rope in room with the two hobgoblins then took pot shots at it with its sling.

Iku Rex
2008-02-20, 04:58 PM
In learning the game what would they lose starting at third level instead of level one?Not much. Just because it's possible to play 1st level characters doesn't mean every campaign has to start at that level. With a few more levels the player characters are less likely to die pointlessly (unfun), and they can afford to make a mistake or two without having to start over (unfun).

What are the rules for the eternal wands and what book are they in?One arcane spell, twice/day. In the Eberron Campaign Setting and Magic Item Compendium. But a simple Wand of Cure Light Wounds should be all they need. The paladin can use it.


So two level three pcs is pretty close to four first level pcs? The rule of thumb for NPCs is that doubling the number of opponents increases the Encounter Level by two. (See DMG 48-49) It gets a little more fuzzy at low levels, but it still works in this case.

Since two level 3 NPCs is an equivalent challenge to four level 1 NPCs, it makes sense to use the same system for PCs.


How should I give the pcs treasure with there only being two of them. should I just cut the treasure thre already is in the adventure in have or if they start at level three leave the treasure how it is? Leave it as is. Higher level PCs get more equipment per adventure. Double that of level 1 should work fine. Also remember that 3rd level characters start with 2700 gp worth of equipment instead of the basic 1st level gear (DMG 135).

Legoshrimp
2008-02-21, 12:00 AM
Thank you for the help.

I am thinking that strating them at third and giving them some way to heal will be best. If I give them a wand of cure light wounds should I have the paladin buy it or just have them find it very early in the adventure?

What would the differences be between giving them a wand of cure light wounds and a eternal wand of cure moderate wounds? I am looking for the argument between cure moderate and cure light and the argument between a regular wand and an eternal wand.

I am thinking about giving them two throw away characters and throwing monsters at them to teach them the basics of the combat system. Then starting the actual game. Any ideas or sugestions on this would be very helpful.

I also would like some ideas for the character builds for the rouge and the paladin. Sadly neither of them want to make there own character.:smallfrown: So any ideas would help on skill alocation and feat placement. For the paladin I am thinkig of going with a cleave fighter. Any ideas? The rouge I have no ideas for.

I will hopefully be starting this game on friday.

TheThan
2008-02-21, 05:04 PM
You could start them off at 3rd level and give them some potions or a wand of cure minor wounds. Rogues and paladins can both use wands after all.
Alternatively you could cut the number of monsters in half. There are quite a few rats in the beginning and two hobgoblins later on. You might want to loose the spider too, as they can be quite mean.

Iku Rex
2008-02-21, 10:23 PM
What would the differences be between giving them a wand of cure light wounds and a eternal wand of cure moderate wounds? I am looking for the argument between cure moderate and cure light and the argument between a regular wand and an eternal wand. I looked it up and eternal wands can only be used by arcane casters.

The advantage of the wand of cure light wounds is that it can be used as often as the PCs like. As long as they survive an encounter (and aren't poisoned or something like that) they can be at full health and ready to continue a few rounds later.


I also would like some ideas for the character builds for the rouge and the paladin. Sadly neither of them want to make there own character.:smallfrown: So any ideas would help on skill alocation and feat placement.

"Flash", CG Halfling Rogue 3

Pretty standard rogue, with focus on survivability.

32 point buy
Race Total
Str 12 -2 10 (+0)
Dex 16 +2 18 (+4)
Con 16 16(+3)
Int 14 14(+2)
Wis 10 10(+0)
Cha 8 8(-1)

Feats: Improved Initiative, Weapon Finesse

Equipment:

1250 +1 Chain Shirt
165 MW Buckler
320 MW Rapier
32 Shortbow w/ 40 arrows
1 Sap
30 Thieves Tools
300 Potion of Invisibility
375 Wand of Cure Light Wounds
150 Riding Dog

2623
77 Left (rope, torches, food, etc - watch encumbrance)

Skills:

10*4+10*2= 60 skill points, max ranks 6

Ranks
Appraise 1
Bluff 5
Escape Artist 6
Hide 6

Listen 6
Move Silently 6
Open Lock 6
Ride 1

Search 6
Spot 5
Tumble 6



Battle tactics:

If Flash wins initiative he'll use his bow to get a sneak attack in the first round. Then he falls back, letting Thunder engage the enemy. Flash then moves in to flank. With decent AC, attack bonus and hit points he can hold his own and then some against low-level humanoids, but should things get too hairy there's always the potion...


"Thunder", LG Halfling Paladin 3

Paladins are hard to make really effective at low levels, even with a high point buy and good rolls. This is a compromise, offering decent defense and some offensive power. As a halfling he can bring his Medium mount into a "dungeon" with little trouble.

32 point buy
Race Total
Str 16 -2 14 (+2)
Dex 10 +2 12 (+1)
Con 16 16(+3)
Int 8 8(-1)
Wis 12 12(+1)
Cha 14 14(+2)

Feats:
Mounted Combat, Ride-By Attack

Spirited Charge next, then Power Attack

Equipment:

1650 MW Full Plate
157 MW Heavy Wooden Shield
10 Lance
32 Shortbow w/ 40 arrows
375 Wand of Cure Light Wounds
150 Riding Dog
200 Chain Shirt Barding dog

2574
126 Left (rope, torches, food, longsword, dagger, etc - watch encumbrance)



Skills:

3*4+3*2= 18 skill points, max ranks 6

Ranks
Diplomacy 6
Handle Animal 6
Ride 6


Battle tactics: Thunder likes to charge the enemy on his riding dog to deal double damage with the lance. If he can he'll use Ride-By Attack to charge past the opponent, allowing an AoO with the lance as the opponent moves to retaliate. If he finds himself surrounded he'll pull out a longsword and hack away while ordering his dog to attack (Ride DC 10).

Legoshrimp
2008-02-22, 05:03 PM
Thanks for all of the help.

I am going to be starting the game tonight. I have created the characters. They both wanted to be human. So I have a human rouge and paladin. The rouge wanted to be more of a diplomatic rogue so cha is a high ability. Imroved intiative, weapon finesse, and point blank shot are the rouges feats. I gave the paladin mounted combat, power attack, and cleave.

Anyone have sugestions on things I should do before the game? I am going to be giving them two throw away characters and tossing monsters at them for them to get used to the combat system.

Edit: I forgot to ask what monsters should I throw at them to help them learn the combat sytem?

Seatbelt
2008-02-22, 08:00 PM
Goblins are iconic low-level monsters.

Triaxx
2008-02-22, 08:35 PM
Kobolds are even more so, and it's far easier to adjust the CR.

Adumbration
2008-02-23, 01:45 AM
Thanks for all of the help.

I am going to be starting the game tonight. I have created the characters. They both wanted to be human. So I have a human rouge and paladin. The rouge wanted to be more of a diplomatic rogue so cha is a high ability. Imroved intiative, weapon finesse, and point blank shot are the rouges feats. I gave the paladin mounted combat, power attack, and cleave.

Anyone have sugestions on things I should do before the game? I am going to be giving them two throw away characters and tossing monsters at them for them to get used to the combat system.

Edit: I forgot to ask what monsters should I throw at them to help them learn the combat sytem?

Let us know how it went. I'm planning on DMing that adventure as well, and I'd like to know how long it takes.

Legoshrimp
2008-02-23, 11:12 PM
I did not end up running the game:frown: . I will hopefully run it next week. Sorry I can't tell you how it went.