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View Full Version : The Subtle Art of Manipulation



Abstruse
2008-02-20, 04:03 PM
We all know D&D and d20 tends to be more strongly focused on the straight-out die-rolling aspects of combat and interaction. I'm considering playing a beguiler in the near future, though, and I'm wondering about what other players have used in the way of setting up manipulation and guile and strategy to turn things to their favor.

One that sprung to my mind, just off the bat, was to inconspicuously charm a fairly large and muscular type in a bar -- someone completely unrelated to you -- then fake or bluff being bothered or accosted by your TRUE target. Said true target would then be attacked or threatened by your charmed mook, leaving you to either watch with a smile as said person is taken down a notch or two, or go on to accomplish your more devious ultimate goal while everyone's focused on the ensuing melee.

valadil
2008-02-20, 04:27 PM
I had an exceptionally manipulative bard/rogue a while back. He was my favorite character ever.

There are a couple things that are important when playing a manipulative character. You need long term goals. Making peasants fight is a nice source of entertainment, but it's just so petty. You need something bigger to be working towards. My bard was spying on the group for the enemy. It was straightforward enough, but I always had stuff to do related to this goal. (Note that this isn't possible in all games. In a strictly dungeon crawling environment there just isn't that much room for being a manipulative jerk.)

I'm not very good at being manipulative. It's not something that comes naturally to me. I can doublespeak pretty well though, but actually convincing people to do something is tough. The one thing I've found that works consistently is that your victim has to come up with what you want him to do on his own. You can lead them to an idea, but the idea itself has to come into existence in their own head, rather than coming from your mouth. People are more likely to do things they thought of on their own and less likely to think it's manipulation if they thought of it.

ashmanonar
2008-02-20, 04:50 PM
We all know D&D and d20 tends to be more strongly focused on the straight-out die-rolling aspects of combat and interaction. I'm considering playing a beguiler in the near future, though, and I'm wondering about what other players have used in the way of setting up manipulation and guile and strategy to turn things to their favor.

One that sprung to my mind, just off the bat, was to inconspicuously charm a fairly large and muscular type in a bar -- someone completely unrelated to you -- then fake or bluff being bothered or accosted by your TRUE target. Said true target would then be attacked or threatened by your charmed mook, leaving you to either watch with a smile as said person is taken down a notch or two, or go on to accomplish your more devious ultimate goal while everyone's focused on the ensuing melee.

What, you mean people actually play characters that use a charisma score? I thought everybody tried to be *******s to everyone they met. :annoyed:

Sorry, group issues.

Mad Maudlin
2008-02-20, 05:07 PM
I love beguiling - the only limit is your DM's patience imagination!

Of course, it all depends whether you're willing to lie to your party - a fun trick would be to convince them all that you're a paladin ("I'm a paladin" he says. "Oh that must be true," they think, "Paladins wouldn't lie!") After that, you can pretty much call the shots... I had a character in a campaign I DM-ed a while back, who had the rest of the party convinced he was the avatar of Garl Glittergold, so that was interesting.

The thing to figure out about every unfriendly npc you meet is what kind of authority figures they're willing to listen to. My own beguiler once diffused a brewing feud by befriending her adversary's father. She also takes a lot of care in deciding which rumours she allows to reach her enemys' ears. Pay off bards to tell the right stories, talk to the biggest gossip in the local tavern, that kind of thing. Work on having a few separate reputations under different names - no one would suspect that Aaron the best weaponsmith in town is the same person as Bartholemew the reclusive philanthropist...

Also, always have a contingency plan. If you get caught, make sure you know who you're going to blame it on. ("Oh, my god, you mean the wine I gave him was drugged? But the man who gave it to me said it would make him happy! Is he okay?")

Collin152
2008-02-20, 05:33 PM
Multiple identity's are a must. Even if you don't invest in disguise or forgery, try and have escape routes under differant names.
The real challenge is playing a Manipulator with a Lawful alignment and keeping it.

Mewtarthio
2008-02-20, 06:29 PM
How about a Bard with Perform (oratory) and Disguise Spell? Weave your enchantments into impassioned speeches and stories. There's also this possibly unfair trick to bypass the willing-or-helpless restriction on geas: Use your Bardic Fascination/Suggestion to get somebody to listen to a ten-minute-long story/speech/what-have-you, then use Disguise Spell to spend those ten minutes casting geas.

Prometheus
2008-02-20, 09:56 PM
The players took a drunken lazy soldier and convinced him to call out the captain to a duel (because obviously the drunkard would be a better, less uptight leader and the captain was a sissy). While the battle ensured (surprise, the drunkard was having his ass handed to him), the PCs made their moves.

Kyace
2008-02-20, 10:07 PM
I love beguiling - the only limit is your DM's patience imagination!

Of course, it all depends whether you're willing to lie to your party - a fun trick would be to convince them all that you're a paladin ("I'm a paladin" he says. "Oh that must be true," they think, "Paladins wouldn't lie!") After that, you can pretty much call the shots... I had a character in a campaign I DM-ed a while back, who had the rest of the party convinced he was the avatar of Garl Glittergold, so that was interesting.
If your party was willing to trust an avatar of Glittergold's, they must have failed their Knowledge Religion rolls...

Collin152
2008-02-20, 10:13 PM
The next time someone tell's you gnomes are good trustworthy people, you can spit in their face for me!

Working with legitament authority is always good. That's why forgery is a better skill than it looks like.

Kyace
2008-02-20, 10:41 PM
The next time someone tell's you gnomes are good trustworthy people, you can spit in their face for me!

Working with legitament authority is always good. That's why forgery is a better skill than it looks like.

Forgery is great against people with high wisdom or if your charisma isn't the greatest. Its an Int VS Int skill check to deceive someone: great!

Collin152
2008-02-20, 10:46 PM
Yeah, it really is great, seeing as, so far as I can remember, it is the only int-based skill even resembling social interaction.
Beguilers with forgery are like... I am the king.
Poor, stupid NPCs.

nepphi
2008-02-21, 12:19 AM
I played a game some time back, playing a rogue named Feinneuiven (nickname Finn).

Finn was a very well dressed character, to the nines. Elegant, intelligent, charismatic. He was friendly and smart and witty...he was a she.

Before the game ever started I spoke to my GM and made some disguise and bluff rolls, so the entire party was convinced that Finn was indeed a wandering, gentleman minstrel. Thus he could easily move in and out of the party as he needed, just by changing his disguise. The largest NPC quest our party went on was because Finn switched to her female human disguise, and asked the party for a favor.

It's all in being willing to think big. God they were angry when they found out!

Adumbration
2008-02-21, 02:09 AM
You know, the Mindbender prestige class sounds so great for this occasion...

Superglucose
2008-02-21, 02:37 AM
I played a game some time back, playing a rogue named Feinneuiven (nickname Finn).

Finn was a very well dressed character, to the nines. Elegant, intelligent, charismatic. He was friendly and smart and witty...he was a she.

Before the game ever started I spoke to my GM and made some disguise and bluff rolls, so the entire party was convinced that Finn was indeed a wandering, gentleman minstrel. Thus he could easily move in and out of the party as he needed, just by changing his disguise. The largest NPC quest our party went on was because Finn switched to her female human disguise, and asked the party for a favor.

It's all in being willing to think big. God they were angry when they found out!

It's stories like this that make me want to have a superb GM again.

SoD
2008-02-21, 04:51 AM
Or a group that uses paranoia notes, which will be used when I head back home.

Something you don't want other players to see? Write it down, hand it to the DM. Make sure that a bunch of them are little stuff like: 'pizza coming soon?' 'want me to get you a drink?' 'flibertygiblets on a silver platter' '42' and so on, in amongst the occasional 'I pocket the big gem, 27 SoH', or 'I whisper to the evil NPC and quickly outline who I am, and show him my tattoo' and 'I stab our party leader, in the back, 23 sneak attack damage, 25 SoH to conceal it, 28 SoH for a moskito bite, so he won't notice the wound for another six seconds, by which time, I'll be on the other side of the room. When he notices, I'll comment on the traps...'

Paranoia notes can be so much fun. One time I had the party scared to death, because I was a paladin, or so their characters thought. A lot of notes had been going back between me and the DM in crucial scenes, and he had rolled dice before telling them I was a noble paladin.

Reality? I was a noble paladin. LG. And I was hungry and wanted my pizza now! Not before the end of this scene! NOW!!!!!

Mad Maudlin
2008-02-21, 04:52 AM
If your party was willing to trust an avatar of Glittergold's, they must have failed their Knowledge Religion rolls...

Oh, I didn't say they trusted him... Still, the party druid (oh, the shame) failed her knowledge check hard, and just thought he was a strange little glowy individual... The rest of the PCs conspired ooc to make sure that the subject never came up around her.

Roderick_BR
2008-02-21, 09:08 AM
I never played a manipulative character, but when DMing, my group played some. It's really fun when you let the players run rampant, trying their bluffs against your NPCs, seeing if they can succeed. Smarter and more experient NPCs are harder to manipulate, but when they succeed, the results are often... interesting.
One BBeG I planned once was a bard that's the leader of a thieve's guild, but never actually used it.

nargbop
2008-02-21, 09:55 AM
I'm playing a game now where the BBEG is the best liar in the world. The most important thing is running with the situation (STAYING in character) and having a good memory for what your character has heard in-game.

nargbop
2008-02-21, 10:00 AM
I'm playing a game now where the BBEG is the best liar in the world. The most important thing is running with the situation (STAYING in character) and having a good memory for what your character has heard in-game.

valadil
2008-02-21, 10:15 AM
Paranoia notes can be so much fun. One time I had the party scared to death, because I was a paladin, or so their characters thought. A lot of notes had been going back between me and the DM in crucial scenes, and he had rolled dice before telling them I was a noble paladin.


My favorite paranoia note was to the party leader. It read "Look at [the group's resident powergamer]. When he sees you, look back at me and nod." To this day that player still opposes private notepassing.

Collin152
2008-02-21, 05:16 PM
My favorite paranoia note was to the party leader. It read "Look at [the group's resident powergamer]. When he sees you, look back at me and nod." To this day that player still opposes private notepassing.

That is awesome. You get three win points and a gold star.