Abroad in the playground

[T'ze'hai]

For all those people out there who go abroad for some time (longer than just a holiday) or have been. I guess there are a lot of people who go abroad for their studies (or plan to go) or go away for a year or so inbetween studies/school/working life. Or who just like traveling a lot.
Sometimes it's hard to go away for a long period. You miss your friends, family, your normal home and life. But going away also gives you the chance to see and learn new things.

Why do we go abroad? Why not? What advice can the people with travel-experience give? What questions do people planning to go abroad have?
Put it all here, and let this be a place of home, even if you're far away.

I went abroad for my studies. I did my thesis on functional anatomy of fish. Why do certain species of fish have certain features? I went to Ethiopia, because there is a lake there that is in many ways a smaller version of Lake Victoria. It has species of fish that are nowhere else, and the ecosystem is threatened by industrial fishing. The difference: different species and no newly introduced predator fish. Yet.
Anyway, I lived there for 5 months in a city together with 3 other student, in a house inbetween the regular inhabitants. We learned some of the local language, local food, local festivities, and did our jobs. A firned of mine came to visit halfway through, and the others had visiting friends and family as well. The only communication with home was though an everfailing internet (e-mail) system, fax and telephone (which was very expensive and could end up in a conversation between you and half of the city at once...)
I missed home, a lot. I guess it didn't help that my father was urgently ill. It also did not help that my research was difficult (not all went as planned, and my supervisor only wanted more). But I managed. And I came home with an experience I shal remember for the rest of my life. I would not have wanted to miss it.

[Serpentine]

Pffft. Nonsense. Everyone knows there's no chicks on the 'net.

<.< >.>
:smallsigh: I've never been out of the country :smallfrown: I want to, though. I got close, once, to going to Canada... A debacle that cost me $800 :smallsigh:
You know what I'd like to do? You know how people go around Europe or wherever doing bar work wherever they go? I wanna do that, but with libraries. Travel the world, moving from library to library... :smallbiggrin: Works for me... Anyone know what the hiring practices are in their local literary repository?

[SoD]

Well, to start off: why go abroad? The answer: Why not?

It's a great, if expensive, experience. I'm over halfway through my year in Finland as an exchange student, yeah I miss people back home, but I don't focus on them. Why bother focusing on what you're missing out on and being all depressed, when you can focus on what you getting, and all the new experiences? Don't let homesickness happen, throw yourself into life, and fill every hour with as many minutes as you can cram in there!

[T'ze'hai]

Travel the world, moving from library to library... :smallbiggrin: Works for me... Anyone know what the hiring practices are in their local literary repository?

Out here it's usually one payed employee and several volunteers. And I think they can always use some extra.

[Jokes]

I've been to Germany for two months as an exchange student. That was fun, it's where I first got into D&D. I almost went to China last year for a research thing for uni, but it turns out you actually have to graduate to do that. Maybe this year.

[rubakhin]

FoD: Wow! Finland! Have you been to Petersburg? :smallsmile:

General advice: Just be quiet, pay attention, don't swear, don't judge, try not to worry too much about your hysterical Western notions of what is and is not sanitary, love one another, and you'll be fine.

Go there with the intent of being respectful and trying to learn. Act like a human being. I saw this thing on the Travel Channel where they sent this terrible American to Russia and she did nothing but whine about how much she hated it there and how horrible and backwards everyone was and ran around screaming and snorting and ululating in a damn church. Seriously. She ran through Christ on the Blood ululating. Please don't do that.

Try to learn a little bit of the language. Even if you only know how to say "Do you speak English?" in the native tongue, this will go a long way, even in places like France that have a reputation of being condescending towards people who don't speak the mother tongue. Wear what's appropriate for the region if you're going to a more conservative country, and don't discuss religion or politics. In some places a man will complain about his country all day, but if you say one thing against it as an outsider, he'll lose his head entirely. (Slavic recreational complaining - there's affection in there somewhere.) All in all, try to follow the rules - that includes etiquette as well as the law. But if you get in trouble in Russia - and I'm not saying you should go wild, but if worst comes to worst - you can pay the cops off. Everybody does it, and the police are expecting you to at least try.

Attempt not to look like a tourist. Firstly so you don't look like an idiot, and secondly so that a certain element will not consider you a walking target. Wear clothes that are fashionable and flattering, the sort of things that wouldn't be taken on a trip. None of that shorts and sandals dreck. Ideally, have a little clothes money set aside. When you get there, figure out what's in style and wear that. (I find that this is especially useful in places in the Middle East like Iran, where regional variants on what's considered fashionable and appropriate vary wildly.) This is important: people in Eastern Europe try to be good-looking. Even if they're completely beyond help, women will still put on makeup, and men will still try to wear flattering clothes. Nobody's slobby. Dress up.

Still. In most places you won't be able to disguise the fact that you're not from around those parts. (Especially Russia. Russians can spot outsiders at 300 yards. Detect Foreigner is a class feature.) But at least try to look like an intelligent and urbane person who can handle himself.

Your papers and your money stay on your person at all times. (But for God's sake, Americans, don't wear a fanny pack. Get a money belt and wear it under your clothes if you must.) Never put your backpack, luggage, or what have you on the seat next to you, always have it physically touching your person.

Oh, and don't give anybody any money. Ever. You will be accosted from all angles by innocent-looking men and women who will blather on about being robbed and needing a bit of cash for the embassy or whatever. Lies, lies, lies. You'll also be accosted by people trying to sell you, like, nesting dolls of Communist leaders or something, in particular if you wander down the touristy part of the Arbat or wherever. (You'll learn to avoid those places soon enough - for some reason after a while in Russia, you will also get the Detect Foreigner thing. Go figure.) If you learn only one phrase of Russian in all your life, make it "nyet, ne khochu." You'll be using it a lot. Unfortunately, it will not work. Try a gentle "tvoyu mat" instead.

You will drink in Russia. If you don't want to drink, don't go to Russia. Russians drink differently from Americans, but detailing all the ways would make this post more long-winded than it already is. You can Google that.

Try not to act like a tourist. There's no point in checking off a laundry list of sights and not understanding anything about the real culture. Mingle with the natives. Don't cling to the foreigner's areas. There are places in Eastern Europe where you can't stand outside for five minutes without someone trying to drag you off to their flat and give you a warm meal. Let them. Practically nobody is going to kill you.

Oh, and if you do go to Russia, have a drink for me ... saudade ... :smallfrown:

[RTGoodman]

I don't know about in other countries, but here in the US there's this romanticized notion of college students (hippie or otherwise) taking a year or two off to backpack around Europe, living out of a hostels and traveling by foot or train.

I'm actually going to try to do this. Sure, it'll be after I graduate, but it gives me something to do in that year between getting my BA and starting grad school.

I'm trying to figure out the money thing now (especially, ya know, how much I'm going to need to get there, survive for X number of weeks, and get back), and I hope to go sometime next Spring. I definitely want to hit up Ireland, Scotland, and Wales (maybe England, but I'm more of a Celtophile), and then make my way to the continent to spend a while traveling Germany and visiting castles and universities and various medieval-related places. Maybe hit up Rome if I can, see the sights of the Eternal City.

Anyone got any suggestions of when is the best time to visit Europe if I'm basically going to be living out of a duffel bag and spend my time traveling by train and whatnot? How much should I plan on spending in a week or two of traveling around like that?

[T'ze'hai]

Try spring or autumn as a good season for traveling. Winter is either cold or wet, summer is usually hot (but if you like that...).
In Germany they should still have a cheap train ticket (Schones Wochenende) with which you can travel in the weekend with all the slower trains all over Germany. May be they have something similar in other countries? Not in the Netherlands, I know for sure.
Great Brittain is expensive travelwise (train, bus/coach) but camping can be cheap.
Ever considered hitchhiking?

[SoD]

One thing I desperatly want to do at one point in my life: bikeride from Hobart to Helsinki. I heard about one guy who's doing it at the moment! Unless there's some nice place begining with 'B'. Hmm...Blackmans Bay to Barcelona?

[Emrylon]

I went on a Month long trip to Ecuador last summer, We did community work, trekking, loads of stuff. It was absolutly incredible. I missed home but it was still fantastic. I want to go back to south America after I finish Univeristy...if I ever get accepted...

[Narmoth]

Seriously. She ran through Christ on the Blood ululating. Please don't do that.

My brother managed to curse "satan" in a spanish monastery in the easter. He tripped on a chair during mass (you could go around in their church and look and there was a mass going on), and by old habit... :smallwink:



Still. In most places you won't be able to disguise the fact that you're not from around those parts. (Especially Russia. Russians can spot outsiders at 300 yards. Detect Foreigner is a class feature.) But at least try to look like an intelligent and urbane person who can handle himself.


I have the same in Norway, only I detect russians that way

[Dragonrider]

I don't know about in other countries, but here in the US there's this romanticized notion of college students (hippie or otherwise) taking a year or two off to backpack around Europe, living out of a hostels and traveling by foot or train.


My mom did that. She lived in England for a year and spent her breaks taking the train around Europe...only they couldn't afford a hostel so they slept on the trains instead....


@Rubakhin, thank you for saying that! I HATE HATE HATE Americans in other countries. We are loud, rude, and obnoxious - and most don't even seem to realize it. We walk into a foreign country like we own the place and expect to recieve the best 100% of the time. I was in Israel last week and there was this lady staying near us, very nice, but she was from like New York City and she was SO AMERICAN that I wanted to scream. Sunglasses, sandals, makeup, chewing gum, flash photography, and she laughed too loud. At least she didn't complain.

OK, so I'm American too, but I travel all the time and I spent the first couple years of my life living in a village at the end of a 100-mile dirt road in a 3rd-world country with no hot water and a house whose walls were held up by the paint. When we got back to the U.S., in the bath I asked "where are the pipes, Mom?" because they were actually inside the walls instead of exposed.

So yeah...TRY not to be touristy. In places like China (where I lived for several months last year) it's impossible not to stand out unless you look Asian, but you can still not be loud and rude. If there's one thing I've learned, it's that foreign travel calls for detachment and letting go of your normal living standards. The showers don't have hot water? So learn to take cold showers. Or don't shower. If you don't like the country, why are you there?

(I don't mean to offend anyone...this just is a huge pet peeve of mine. :smalltongue:)

[Kaelaroth]

If you ever go to England, specifically London, there are a couple of things to remember. We don't hate foreigners. Admittedly, you guys are just a bunch of freeloading moneygrabbers out to get our jobs, and filling our pubs and restaurants with foul-smellinng muck - but we'll tolerate you. Just.
Never get in a mini-cab without having booked it first. Always lock your car, and have a chain on your bike. Put the chain on at night. Don't wear blatantly expensive clothes outside of places where people might wear them regularly. You'll be hated. Don't try to put on an English, Irish, Scottish, or Welsh accent in their respective areas. You will be despised. Note that everything in London is about three times as expensive as it is anywhere else in the world. Don't go to Harrods. Try not to look like an outsider. Don't go to the commonly accepted "bad" areas without friends. They're called bad for a reason! And most of the other touristy things apply.

[Dihan]

If you ever go to England, specifically London, there are a couple of things to remember. We don't hate foreigners. Admittedly, you guys are just a bunch of freeloading moneygrabbers out to get our jobs, and filling our pubs and restaurants with foul-smellinng muck - but we'll tolerate you. Just.
Never get in a mini-cab without having booked it first. Always lock your car, and have a chain on your bike. Put the chain on at night. Don't wear blatantly expensive clothes outside of places where people might wear them regularly. You'll be hated. Don't try to put on an English, Irish, Scottish, or Welsh accent in their respective areas. You will be despised. Note that everything in London is about three times as expensive as it is anywhere else in the world. Don't go to Harrods. Try not to look like an outsider. Don't go to the commonly accepted "bad" areas without friends. They're called bad for a reason! And most of the other touristy things apply.

Emphasis mine. Do not do this. Ever. Especially don't do it with the local accents. Also, don't come to the UK wearing Burberry clothing no matter how "classy" some Americans think it is, you'll be unanimously despised by everyone apart from thieves/muggers/yobs/etc. For cities like London, you should probably be careful of what streets you walk down unless you don't mind the awkwardness of being stared. I must also add that you may need to do a bit of research if they plan on driving in Europe, specifically for roundabouts.

[Telonius]

@Rubakhin, thank you for saying that! I HATE HATE HATE Americans in other countries. We are loud, rude, and obnoxious - and most don't even seem to realize it. We walk into a foreign country like we own the place and expect to recieve the best 100% of the time. I was in Israel last week and there was this lady staying near us, very nice, but she was from like New York City and she was SO AMERICAN that I wanted to scream. Sunglasses, sandals, makeup, chewing gum, flash photography, and she laughed too loud. At least she didn't complain.

OK, so I'm American too, but I travel all the time and I spent the first couple years of my life living in a village at the end of a 100-mile dirt road in a 3rd-world country with no hot water and a house whose walls were held up by the paint. When we got back to the U.S., in the bath I asked "where are the pipes, Mom?" because they were actually inside the walls instead of exposed.

So yeah...TRY not to be touristy. In places like China (where I lived for several months last year) it's impossible not to stand out unless you look Asian, but you can still not be loud and rude. If there's one thing I've learned, it's that foreign travel calls for detachment and letting go of your normal living standards. The showers don't have hot water? So learn to take cold showers. Or don't shower. If you don't like the country, why are you there?

(I don't mean to offend anyone...this just is a huge pet peeve of mine. :smalltongue:)

It's not just Americans in foreign countries. I live in the Washington DC area. I can assure you that Americans lose 50 points of IQ whenever they're more than a two hour's drive from their home, foreign country or not.

[RTGoodman]

In Germany they should still have a cheap train ticket (Schones Wochenende) with which you can travel in the weekend with all the slower trains all over Germany. May be they have something similar in other countries? Not in the Netherlands, I know for sure.

Yeah, my German professor was the one that told me how cheap trains are in good ol' Deutschland, so that's how I plan to travel when I'm there, at least. I assumed that a lot of places had systems like that, but I could be wrong.


Ever considered hitchhiking?

Is that actually allowed? I'm not certain, but I think that hitchhiking is pretty illegal over here in the States (from what I've heard, anyway). Seems like a pretty iconic way to bum travel around, but I'm not sure it's exactly safe.

[Groundhog]

Okay, first of all, what Dragonrider said about Americans being loud, annoying, etc. in other countries is absolutely true. I'm living in Israel this year, and most of the other American students drive me nuts. They assume that everyone can understand English, act annoyingly superior all the time, and generally make me cringe. I'm trying really hard not to act like them, and have been mostly successful.

Another thing is if you're in any Middle Eastern country, you will probably get invited to a lot of people's homes/tents (yes, some people there still live in tents. It's cheap and practical.) They are not trying to kidnap you or anything. It's just the local custom.

[BlackStaticWolf]

It's not just Americans in foreign countries. I live in the Washington DC area. I can assure you that Americans lose 50 points of IQ whenever they're more than a two hour's drive from their home, foreign country or not.


Yeah... this isn't an American thing. This is a jackass tourist thing. And I feel oblidged to point out that I've travelled enough and lived in enough international tourist destinations to realize that people of ALL nationalities do it.

So don't hate Americans. Hate tourists.



On topic... I actually just dropped off my application to do UM Law's summer abroad program this year. I'll be spending the first half of the summer bouncing around Italy and Greece. I'll then spend the second half of the summer in London. The travelling should be fun.

The classes not so much... although the comparative immigration law and policy class I'm taking does look somewhat interesting.

[Aereshaa_the_2nd]

First of all, Americans, if you're sick, need medicine, or need education for your kids, come to my homeland of Canada. I cannot emphasize this strongly enough. When I read American news about your healthcare system, or rather lack of one, I feel really really sorry for you, not in the contemptuous sense but in the empathy sense. :smallfrown:
There are basically two differences between the US and here: the booze (Or so I hear from my dad.), and the culture. By culture I mean the fact that within four blocks from my house, I could get food from like 30 countries. (I live in the downtown, which in Canada means the high-land-value part.)
Here, we have free healthcare, paid through your taxes. If you have an accident, you are charged NOTHING. Some may argue that they don't want to pay for others' treatment, but cooperation is the basis for any civil society.
So, to anyone who is sick, needs medicine, or just a break from medical bills, I hereby welcome you, please stay awhile.
I myself have been to many countries:
The UK, Mexico, Brazil, Venezuela, New Zealand, Liechtenstein, France, Hong Kong, Ecuador, South Africa. I've also been to Quebec, which is not another country.

[Serpentine]

My mum and her husband went overseas for a bit about a year back with a couple of friends of theirs. I can't remember all the places they went, but I believe Thailand and possibly Vietnam were on the list. Anyway, mum and her husband say they ended up having a better time because their friends were so gloomy and whingy (the food's horrible! It made me sick! Everything makes me sick! It's too crowded! It's too dirty! etc.) that they were absolutely determined to love everything. These friends of theirs were only happy when they were on a beach in front of an expensive and very western hotel :smallsigh:

I've been told about a busload of tourists (alright, I admit, they were American. That has nothing to do with the story, though, honest! :smalltongue:) in Canberra. They were overheard to be asking when they were going to go on a day trip to Uluru/Ayer's Rock.
To put it in context for people, I went to Uluru once. It involved 3 weeks on a bus. Day trip = not gonna happen.

Whenever I go overseas, I'm going to try to incorporate a good portion of time in which I can get sick. Because, dammit, I'm not going to a whole other country just to not eat the food.

[NikkTheTrick]

Haven't been to Russia (my home) since 2003...

First, I was in USA, now Canada.

Reasons for moving to Canada:
- Climate. USA gets too hot. In fact, Moscow felt a bit too hot for me. Edmonton climate (similar to Siberian climate) is just what I want.

- Beer. Difference between US beer and Canadian one is best explained by a quote from OotPCs:

- Excuse me, I think ye gave me tha wrong mug. I order'd a beer, an' this seems o be a tankard o' moose urine.
- No, that IS beer. The finest beer brewed in all of human lands USA
- NOOOOOOOOOO!

[Dragonrider]

There are basically two differences between the US and here: the booze (Or so I hear from my dad.), and the culture. By culture I mean the fact that within four blocks from my house, I could get food from like 30 countries. (I live in the downtown, which in Canada means the high-land-value part.)


I don't know what you've heard about the U.S., but we've got no shortage of culture here. :smalltongue: it's about as diverse, at least in some areas, as it gets. When I was in China, people would ask me "what kind of food do you eat?" and I started thinking. Italian, Mexican (or at least "texmex"), Belizean (that's just my family since we lived there), Chinese, Thai, Persian (ghormeh sabzi yum yum). There's also classic American meat and potatoes. But our culinary diversity is really quite astonishing. Even in my tiny town you can get all those things easily.

I have actually visited 14 countries. All of Central America plus China, Japan, France, and Israel. And Canada. (am I forgetting anything?)

Oh and groundhog: where in Israel are you?

[T'ze'hai]

Ow all those stories about tourists! I recognize al of them. I always try my best not to be one of those tourists, but it stays difficult not to stand out if you want to do a city trip and bring along your camera (deffo not small), something small to eat, some protection from possible rain, sunglasses, a travelguide... I always try to use my map as little as possible (do the scrutinizing in my hotel/hostel room), but I still have the feeling there's a neon light arrow above my head pointing at me.... :smallredface:

[T'ze'hai]

I was wondering how many people actually post blogs while they're abroad? I know some of my friends do. It can be rather small (an email send to many persons at the same time) or quite big (a weblog with photo's, and maybe even a forum or message board). But there are also people who go for some time, and whose stories you only hear once they've come back.
Which option would you choose, and why?

[Flickerdart]

Posting from abroad is sometimes impractical. My grandparents in Russia only got decent internet last year. >.>

[T'ze'hai]

I know. When I was in Ethiopia (at the time they had only 1 server in that country) I could only email once in a while. Faxing went better. Phoning was hell (try talking to the whole city in Amharic at once!).
I kept a diary and wrote stories to take home with me. So I did have a log, only to be read afterwards (like in the old days...)