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View Full Version : Exp. to Undermountain: "Er, What?"



MandibleBones
2008-02-24, 01:59 PM
WARNING: The following post contains spoilers for the Expedition to Undermountain (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=products/fracc/957327200) campaign module. If this bothers you, don't read it.

So I'm playing in an Expedition to Undermountain game with my IRL group. There's six of us, and we're level one (EtU is advertised as being level-one friendly - it lies!).

We consist of:
- Me (Strongheart Halfling Warlock 1)
- A human cleric with Multiple Ability Awesomeness who is going minor-league 'Zilla without using DPMM.
- An elven rogue heading toward assassin (player's 1st time playing)
- An elven druid heading toward 'Zilla
- A dwarven artificer (player's 1st time playing)
- A human (if I recall correctly) monk.

So the monk aside (and he's not really any worse off than a bard is at level 1), we should be able to survive and thrive here, right?

WARNING: Spoilers follow. I'm not spoilering this, but just so you know.

No, no. The first room has a secret door carved into rock, and since we have two elves and a dwarf in the party, they all find it. As they attempt to open it, three goblins with some sort of psionic-slug-with-metal-embedded-in-it ambush us. This encounter is CR5. In the first room.

We survive out of pure dumb luck (I beat it in initiative and sickening blast it, which prevents it from one-shotting the monk and the artificer), and because the DM never used its death attack - the one that fills the room with flying metal shards which do 4d6 damage to all creatures in the room (reflex for half).

For those of you not tracking hit point totals, that's a nearly-automatic TPK. In the first room. It didn't happen because we were lucky and our DM doesn't read fine print very well. Later on, he lets us know that the module INTENDS for it to be used when we are on our way OUT of the dungeon, ostensibly when we are higher level.

The problems with this logic are:
1.) There's random encounters in here with a frequency that would make Final Fantasy blush, most of which are somewhat level-appropriate, so no resting for us - this means we have to leave to sleep or risk being killed during the night.
2.) On our way out of the dungeon, we are more likely to be injured, out of spells (except me), carrying wounded or just plain exhausted. Luck or not, we would not have survived this fight without the cleric's spells, without full HP, and without the scrolls or potions we were carrying.

It gets worse from here on in. So though I am having fun (and have a couple back-up characters readied), I have two questions:

1. How in the name of the People's Republic of Hell is this supposed to be "appropriate for 1st level characters" ?

2. How would you survive to reach level two?

3. Any tips, spoilers, anything that we can use to be better prepared? The DM doesn't frown on metagaming, which ordinarily I would find annoying, but here it looks to be a survival tool. In fact, he rewards it when it's used well and without being too blatant (such as finding the one way out of the room with the antimagic field that didn't trigger the carytid column to attack). By the way, Warlocks? Totally useless in an AM field at 1st level.

Newtkeeper
2008-02-24, 02:16 PM
Well, my first thought would be to talk to the DM. Something along the lines of "Don't you think this is a bit tough for our PCs? We've survived so far, but only by dumb luck, so if you'd make doubly sure that we're the right level for this adventure?" might work wonders.

If a level 1 party is facing a CR5 monster, someone's made a mistake. It could be you (perhaps this is a warning to stay out until you are ready), but it could be the DM.

And if you are having fun, it's all good, isn't it?

Fenix_of_Doom
2008-02-24, 02:44 PM
First off, I don't know the module, so this is basicly blind guessing but I'm gonna try anyway.

I think that the module CAN BE level 1 friendly and it can be suitable for high level play, it just takes some adjustments from the DM, there may even have been advise on it your DM missed.

Irreverent Fool
2008-02-25, 04:20 AM
I haven't taken a look at the module, but what I expect happened is that your DM looked at the 'appropriate for a party of 1st through 6th level characters' or some similar label and assumed he could run it out of the box like that with a bunch of ECL 1 PCs.

I use a lot of modules when I play, because my players like their characters to run off and do side jobs and I need something to fill up the gap between where they think they're going and where I know they're going. I primarily use things from Dungeon magazine (Rest in Peace, old friend) because I already own a bunch and none of my players ever read them.

Each published adventure has a level range mentioned at the beginning of it and notes on 'Scaling the Adventure' near the back. Usually, the adventure as-written is made for a group of PCs somewhere in the middle of its level-range. The notes tell a DM how to scale it down for lower-leveled parties or up for higher-level ones.

Mention that it seemed really hard and ask if maybe he didn't miss the scaling guidelines.

Rachel Lorelei
2008-02-25, 04:59 AM
Expedition to Undermountain is supposed to be that ridiculous. It's definitely meant for first-level characters. Expect consistent deaths--but your party made it through the encounter, and when I briefly guested in a group running the module, we got through the Metal Melter with "just" one death (even though it DID use the 4d6 damaga aura). So overall it's doable, I guess; just expect to die a lot.

Mr. Friendly
2008-02-25, 07:23 AM
I DMed EtU.

It was basically a bloodbath.

In the DMs defense:

This is one of the worst written modules in the history of D&D. Not only is it written very unclearly and is half-finished in places, it isn't really a module. It's billed a s super module - but it isn't. It should actually be called "The Undermountain Sourcebook".


It is a brutal bloodbath until about level 5; at that point the challenge really tapers off and in fact becomes so easy that you can just skip it.

Vampslayer
2008-03-06, 10:07 PM
I am, in fact running undermountain. The Metalmaster encounter is supposed to happen later, as the PC's are EXITING the dungeon with some item of value, or if the pc's have been a particular thorn it the tribes business. (e.g. Killing goblin patrols and thier guardpost nearby)

The Statue, a carytid column,(well done whoever guessed that, by the way) is supposed to NOT be beatable by a first level party, so they may learn a valuable lesson. That is to Run Away. (my party got lucky. The rogue left via the north passage and was struck down by the carytid at the top of the stair.
The groups fighter rushed from where the rest of the party were being ambushed by 10 goblins in to the hall of pillars and the column attacked him next. on its first attack i rolled a 1. critical miss. in my games i have been using DC 10 dex check or weapon dropped. well, it failed it's dex check, dropped it's +2 Bastard Sword and turned into a nonmagical statue. in the middle of a permanent antimagic field.(thinking about revamping my critical fumbles now...:smallconfused: ) but there it is. sucess in undermountain depends on forethought and luck.

anywho, they got to the second room, 3 of 5 pc's were knocked below 0 at some point, one almost died (the rogue that was hit by the column), they each got 900 xp, and a +2 Bastard Sword, but one gob got away... I think my party has a "slug fest" in thier future.. they then went straight back up the well to rest, fairly puffed up and proud. Heh heh heh.. suckers. I don't plan on ambushing them when they come down again either. Some sneaky goblin rogue is gonna follow em and learn all there is to learn. perhaps sneak attack one should the opportunity arise. oh yeah. this is gonna be fun..

So yeah, aside from some map issues, i like it so far. at least it gives good direction for an adventure campaign.

Vampslayer
2008-03-07, 12:08 AM
I have been inspired by the running of the Tomb of horrors post and decided to run it myself. I am going to spring it on the characters as an undermountain trap. Then i will hand out pc's to each or let them pick. Unfortunately, as much as i would like to, i don't have the time to put the thought required into creating 5 9th level characters. anyone know any good links to some Pre-gens that would be suitable for S1 Version D20?

CrowSpawn
2008-03-07, 09:34 AM
In the DMs defense:

This is one of the worst written modules in the history of D&D. Not only is it written very unclearly and is half-finished in places, it isn't really a module. It's billed a s super module - but it isn't. It should actually be called "The Undermountain Sourcebook".

This is extremely accurate. Expedition to Castle Ravenloft and Demonweb Pits are so much better fleshed out. This book is pathetic. And extremely frustrating.

They basically give you a whole huge dungeon idea, then make the DM figure out how the PC's are gonna reach these encounter areas. The Maps are retarded. Theres very easily accessible exits all over them that do not even tell you where they go. The advice for them is something along the lines of "make it up, or come up with something that makes the PC's retreat back to the illustrated map." Very poor design, in my opinion.

The module only works if your basically willing to create everything "in between" the published stuff. In which case, why not just go ahead and make everything up anyway?

The idea was neat, but the execution was poor, again, in my opinion.