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boomwolf
2008-02-25, 12:21 PM
This is a thinktank, not containing any actual works or anything.

Jest people talking, trying to figure out the best ways to do things.

And the thing I have in mind is slivers.

Is it possible? anyone has any ideas how to make slivers work in DnD?


For the few people that don't play MTG-slivers are a race of critters with a simple general outline that have bursts of evolution to any direction possible, in rapid speed.
They also tend to "share" their evolutions, and all slivers near a mutated sliver gets his mutation in an instant.

Thier basic form looks somewhat like this: (yes, they got one "arm")
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b108/Toxin_CBG/sliver3_token.jpg

Each mutation changes scales, shapes and number of organs of each type, most changes are exterior, or both exterior and interior.


Anyone got an idea on how to bring slivers into DnD (think of the fear striking into your playing group while fighting three of these, and they a forth comes, and they all change into a stronger form.)

SilverClawShift
2008-02-25, 02:49 PM
They'd be a bookkeeping nightmare in pen & paper D&D, but they'd work beautifully in a video game like NWN or something.

That said, they'd also be a fantastically fun monster. I think the best thing you could do with them would be to let go of making a DIRECT MtG to D&D transformation, and instead focus on bringing the concept itself over.
For instance, the first thing I would do, would be to stat them as small creature. Small snake-lizard creatures with no real interesting qualities or abilities. I beleive there WAS a sliver project here some time ago, but there's never any harm in approaching the same situation from a new angle. With that in mind, I've statted up the pitiable Sliver Larva.



Sliver Larva
Tiny Magical Beast
Hit Dice: 1d10-1 (4 hp)
Initiative: +0
Speed: 10 ft. (2 squares)
AC: 12 (+2 Size), touch 12, flat-footed 12
Attack: Claw -4 melee
Damage: Claw 1d4-4 Peircing
Face/Reach: 2.5 ft./0 ft.
Special Attacks: None
Special Qualities: Sliver Link
Saves: Fort +1, Ref +2, Will 0
Abilities: Str 2, Dex 10, Con 8, Int 6, Wis 10, Cha 4
Skills: Hide +1
Feats: Blind-Fight
Climate/Terrain: Potentially Any
Organization: Solitary, Pair (2), Pack (3-5), Swarm (6-20), Nest (20+)
Challenge Rating: 0
Treasure: 1/2 Standard in magical ingredients
Alignment: Special (see Sliver Link)
Advancement: 1 HD (Tiny), 2-3 HD(Small), 4-10 HD (Medium), 10-14 HD (Large), 15-17 HD (Huge) 18-19 HD, (Gargantuan) 20+ HD (Collosal)

This tiny, seemingly blind creature writhes in panic when it hears you approach. It resembles a miniature, eyeless, one limbed dragon made of still soft clay.

When isolated from the hive and from other sliver types, sliver larva are almost entirely helpless. They have no real natural attacks or defenses, aside from a peircingly sharp claw at the end of a single limb.
Even larger sliver larva are mostly helpless without the aid of the hive, though it is incredibly rare for a Sliver to attain more than one hit die without evolving at least one sliver trait or adaptation.

Combat
A sliver larva with no other sliver types nearby attempts to find a nook or burrow to curl inside of, hoping not to be noticed by other creatures. If discovered or attacked, it begins to writhe in a panic, lashing out in every direction with its claw, hoping to connect with its assailant through blind luck.
A sliver larva who is not in combat will attempt to find the nearest sliver hive that it can sense through its sliver link.

Sliver Link (Ex): Slivers can detect each others presence through some unique form of psionic vibration. Slivers, unless compelled through specific circumstance, are always friendly towards one another, and crave to be as close to other slivers as they possibly can.
The Sliver link causes them to share Sliver mutations or adaptations with any other nearby slivers, usually within 30 feet (though some sliver mutations cause this radius to expand). Slivers cannot surpress this ability, which further reinforces Slivers friendliness towards their brethren.
In addition to sharing Sliver Mutations up to 30 feet, Slivers can sense another Sliver from up to 300 feet away. It is unknown how far they can sense Sliver Queens from, but it is currently beleived that Slivers can detect a Sliver Queen ANYWHERE on the same plane. Slivers naturally attempt to congregate around a Sliver Queen at almost any cost.
A Slivers alignment is almost always that of the nearest sliver queen, or of a nearby Sliver with the largest number of Hit Die. Despite being free-willed, Slivers instinctively work together regardless of morality.


Now, we have a base creature with nothing really going for it other than the fact that it IS a sliver. From this, we can come up with rules for sliver advancement.

As a Sliver gains hit dice, it begins to aquire Sliver Adaptations. Sliver Adaptations being the unique abilities that they share with all other nearby slivers.
+20 feet move rate.
Damage Reduction 3/-.
Fire Resistance 5.
Flight.
+6 Strength.
20% Miss Chance.

Ect, ect, ect.

*********************************

So, say, every even numbered Hit Die gained, a Sliver developes a new trait from the list of possibilities. Some traits might have hit-die restrictions, if they're particularily powerful, so only larger and stronger Slivers can develope those traits.
It's important to note that traits should also never stack with each other. If you have a sliver which grants +20 feet move rate, and one which grants +50 feet move rate, all slivers nearby get +50 feet, not +70 feet.

It's ALSO important to note that traits get shared through any number of slivers, as long as they form a proper chain.
For instance, take a Sliver which grants +5 AC to all slivers within 30 feet. A sliver who is 50 feet away does not get that AC benefit. But if another sliver crawls between those two, the middle sliver form a chain, granting all 3 of them the +5 to AC.
Breaking the chain will lessen the AC of the distant slivers, killing the key sliver will lessen the AC of all of them.

Still need to stat a sliver queen and make a list of abilities, though.

MammonAzrael
2008-02-25, 04:04 PM
Could be interesting, and awesome. And a nightmare. And at least in MtG, sliver bonuses DO stack. That's part of their horror. And which is why sliver swarms are so vicious. Most slivers actually don't have a mutation, they're just more powerful because the ones that do stack for things like strength, movement, resistance, DR, SR, etc. Something like flight or telekinese obviously doesn't stack though. :p

boomwolf
2008-02-26, 08:08 AM
If slivers do not stack, they are not slivers.
The whole point is "get more, get stronger", a sole sliver is really weak, a pack is a formidable foe, and an army is nigh-unstoppable.

But your idea might work out pretty good SilverClawShift, but maybe they need a new subtype? they are quite diffrant from anything else after all. and no sliver, even a newborn, is tiny. they are not even small, they are usually medium and rarely large (queens, overlords, and other "leader" slivers are large.)

Also-jest what mutations can be made by a sliver? and how does he choose them?
The MTG slivers, by storyline and books gain mutations that mimic things they have encountered during their lives, and in rare cases random mutations that might become harmful.
We need a system to pick "sliver mutations"

SilverClawShift
2008-02-26, 08:42 AM
And at least in MtG, sliver bonuses DO stack. That's part of their horror.


If slivers do not stack, they are not slivers.

I've played MtG, and with slivers at that, so I know where you're coming from. The main reason Slivers in D&D shouldn't stack would be because it would make them a nightmare. Not for the player, but for the DM.

If every type of benefit stacks, then book-keeping turns into a 4 hour process. Not only keeping track of what sliver is granting what benefit, but also which slivers have overlapping benefits, which sliver is the original in a chain, how high the overlapping benefits are starting to stack, wether or not there's an upper tier.

No DM is going to want to play with Slivers who stack. No player is going to want to sit there and watch their DM filling out 15 pages of logbooks to keep the encounter running.
So if Slivers DO stack, a DM is going to cut out the book-keeping and not put out slivers with overlapping benefits. Why put out three slivers which each grant +2 AC, instead of one sliver that grants +6 AC and two other types of slivers (even larval slivers).

Making the slivers not stack is just removing what would turn into an instant DM judgement call anyway, and make the encounters with them run smoother.

Also, as for how Slivers develop their abilities, Idunno. That's why I said it still needed to be done :smalltongue:

MattKatt
2008-02-26, 10:50 AM
I personally don't see an issue with ability stacking and book-keeping, as long as you can effectively colour-co-ordinate slivers and don't give them similar abilities. For example, dont have a sliver that gives +4AC if there already exists a sliver that gives +2 AC. Also, if you treat them as a Swarm, this solves the distance problem.

For example, just pick the 5 magic colours and assign a single ability to each:
{table]Sliver Colour|Ability
Red|All slivers get +1 to hit
Green|All slivers get +1 to AC
Blue|All slivers have evasion
Black|All slivers get +1 to damage
White|When a sliver dies, the sliver swarm regain (1/2 x total slivers) hp[/table]

Now, you decide to send your party against a pack of 10 slivers, made up of, oh-say 3 green, 4 red a white and 2 black. All these slivers will have +3 AC, +4 to hit, +2 damage and when one dies, they all gain 2 hp. When the players do enough damage to the swarm, the DM randomly decides which of the slivers dies and quickly adjusts the stats accordingly. So if they first kill a green one, the swarm regains 5 hp and the AC goes down by 1. If they kill a red one, the swarm regains 4 hp and their to hit goes down by one. The players can then say "we aim for the white one" and kill it. The swarm regains 4 hp and from then on, stops regaining HP.

Hyrael
2008-02-26, 11:12 AM
To create more interesting abilities that dont stack, perhaps there should be some sort of "By HD" table. that way, older, bigger slivers can do crazy things like spawn more slivers spontaneously, make spellcasters loose their spells, deal wis/int/cha damage, gain haste (double strike), and so forth. or turn them invisible except to other slivers, or cause all slivers to heal damage whenever they make a sucessfull attack, or gain a blood drain ability.

Perhaps bonuses could increase based on HD as well. a 3 hd sliver only grants a +2 armor bonus to all slivers, but a 7 HD sliver grants +4. (actually, that's already acheived by the even-numbered selection thing, but you have to make it so that they can only choose one ability to improve). other abilities could grant a con bonus, str bonus, or dex bonus, obviously. One sliver could grant all the others blindsight out to a given radius. or trample.

DarknessLord
2008-02-26, 12:38 PM
You guys are evil. evil, people.

Personally I think that Sliver's inclination to work together should be limited to the same, or at least allied hives, as determined by the politics of their queen.
Further more, I don't think generic sliver's should be free willed, at the very least, they should share the single hive mind, although, just for the sake of sanity, they should have to be dominated/controlled/whatever individually unless you target the queen itself (who, for this reason, should have very good will saves).

Also, high HD sliver ability Immunity (any one) damage type. Nothing is worse then facing an army of ward silvers.

But those are just my $.02

Icewalker
2008-02-26, 01:01 PM
Somebody did this. Made like 20 of them. It is quite easy to actually use, just not possible to figure out the CR for.

boomwolf
2008-02-26, 03:38 PM
Well, I got an idea to get rid of bookeeping problems:

Slivers grant thier mutations to all slivers participating in the encounter, each sliver not participating give no buffs and gains no buff.

No chains, no range. simple thing of calling who is a part of the fight and who isn't. this way you can even have two sliver factions, each having their own mutations facing each other.

As for the "hive mind", I'm pretty sure the "lords" ("lord" represent all "advance" slivers) mind-control the lesser slivers, and that the lesser slivers are mindless unless connected to no "lord", and if you want to control one you first need to brake the control of his "lord".

Mutations:
How about 2 types? "lord" mutations (high HP only), and "simple" mutations, the low HD (every sliver can), and set them up as "sliver feats", slivers choose only "sliver feats".
So a 1 HD sliver has 1 mutation, a 3 HD gets another, a 6 HD gets even more, and a 9 HD can start taking "lord" mutations as well, leading to better leaders.
If we use this system we will need to have a wide verity of options naturally.
Ideas to "simple" mutations: faster speed, size changes, natural armor, special attacks etc.
Ideas to "lord" mutations: spawning sliverlings, extended mind-control, actively choosing mutations of controled, etc.

Baron Corm
2008-02-26, 06:29 PM
MtG is based off the idea that magic is categorized according to colors. In D&D, it's according to school. So there should be different slivers according to school. The slivers would differ physically according to shape, not color.

Hit dice increases by 1 and CR increase by 1 per sliver, except illusion slivers, which still increase HD by 1, but increase CR by normal advancement of HD (if slivers are aberrations this would be +1 per 4 added).

Other than these slivers, there are also unique slivers which grant unique abilities to all slivers, such as the mentioned flight or miss chance, or even something like making the evocation blast have an area. They increase HD and CR by variable amounts.

Abilities:

Abjuration - All slivers gain +1 deflection bonus to AC per abjuration sliver. Higher numbers of abjuration slivers can also grant resistances and immunities to things.

Conjuration - All slivers gain the ability to use telekinesis and teleport. More conjuration slivers increase the ranges.

Divination - Once per encounter per divination sliver, all slivers can gain a +1 bonus per divination sliver on any d20 roll.

Enchantment - All slivers gain an ability which causes those who look on them to make a Will save (10 + Charisma modifier + 1 per enchantment sliver) or be fascinated. Greater numbers of enchantment slivers can make this "suggested", dominated, etc.

Evocation - All slivers gain a ranged touch energy attack which deals 1d6 damage per evocation sliver of the same element. Different elements grant additional attacks. This includes positive and negative energy.

Illusion - Every illusion sliver appears to be two slivers of any school, with an appropriate seeming increase in power for all slivers. Damage to either one of the two will deal damage to the illusion sliver.

Necromancy - Any time a sliver dies, it is risen as an undead. More necromancy slivers improve the risen form.

Transmutation - All slivers gain +1 to all ability scores per transmutation sliver as they transform into physically and mentally superior beings. Higher numbers of transmutation slivers can grant other bonuses to all slivers, such as increasing or decreasing size categories, bonuses to natural armor, or natural attacks.

MammonAzrael
2008-02-26, 06:51 PM
My quick take on it...

Sliver Larva
Small Magical Beast (Sliver)
Hit Dice: 1d10-1 (4)
Initiative: +0
Speed: 10 ft. (2 squares)
AC: 11 (+1 size), touch 11, flat-footed 11
Base Attack Bonus: +1; Grapple: -5
Attack: Claw +0 (1d4-2)
Full Attack: Claw +0 (1d4-2)
Space/Reach: 5'/5'
Special Attacks: None
Special Qualities: Sliver traits
Saves: Fort +1 Ref +2 Will +0
Abilities: Str 6, Dex 10, Con 8, Int 1, Wis 10, Cha 4
Skills: Hide +4
Feats: Any Sliver feat
Environment: Potentially Any
Organization: Solitary, Pair (2), Pack (3-5), Swarm (6-20), Nest (20+)
Challenge Rating: 1/2 (?)
Treasure: 1/2 Standard in magical ingredients
Alignment: True Neutral
Advancement: 1-3 HD (Small), 4-11 HD(Medium), 12-14 HD (Large), 15-17 HD (Huge), 18-19 HD (Gargantuan) 20+ HD, (Colossal)

Sliver Subtype:
Blindsight 30'
Sliver Feats: Creatures with the Sliver subtype may only take Sliver Feats.
Sliver Link (Ex): Slivers can detect each others presence through some unique form of psionic vibration. Slivers, unless compelled through specific circumstance, are always friendly towards one another, and crave to be as close to other slivers as they possibly can.
The Sliver link causes them to share Sliver mutations or adaptations feats with any other nearby slivers, usually within 30 feet (though some sliver mutations cause this radius to expand). Slivers cannot surpress this ability, which further reinforces Slivers friendliness towards their brethren.
In addition to sharing Sliver Feats, Slivers can sense another Sliver from up to 300 feet away. It is unknown how far they can sense Sliver Queens from, but it is currently believed that Slivers can detect a Sliver Queen ANYWHERE on the same plane. Slivers naturally attempt to congregate around a Sliver Queen at almost any cost.

Sliver Feats: Only Slivers may take sliver feats.
Claw Sliver [Sliver]
The sliver's claw is wielded steadier and with greater accuracy.
Benefits: All Slivers gain +1 to all attacks rolls made with their claw.
Special: You can gain this feat multiple times. Its effects stack.

Armor Sliver [Sliver]
The Slivers' hides toughen.
Benefits: All slivers gain +1 to their natural armor.
Special: You can gain this feat multiple times. Its effects stack.

Strength Sliver [Sliver]
The sliver's muscles flex and bulge.
Benefits: All slivers gain +2 to Strength.
Special: You can gain this feat multiple times. Its effects stack.

Dexterity Sliver [Sliver]
The sliver becomes more agile.
Benefits: All slivers gain +2 to Dexterity.
Special: You can gain this feat multiple times. Its effects stack.

Constitution Sliver [Sliver]
The sliver looks hardier.
Benefits: All slivers gaint +2 to Constitution.
Special: You can gain this feat multiple times. Its effects stack.

Reflex Sliver[Sliver]
The sliver reacts quicker.
Benefits: All slivers gain +4 to initiative rolls.
Special: You can gain this feat multiple times. Its effects stack.

Quick Sliver[Sliver]
The sliver is faster.
Benefits: All slivers land movement speed increases 10 ft.
Special: You can gain this feat multiple times. Its effects stack.

Burrowing Sliver [Sliver]
This sliver can burrow through the ground.
Prerequisites: Quick Sliver feat.
Benefits: All slivers gain a burrow speed equal to their land speed.

Winged Sliver [Sliver]
This sliver has grown wings.
Prerequisites: Quick Sliver feat.
Benefits: All slivers grow wings and gain a fly speed equal to their land speed (average maneuverability).

Finned Sliver [Sliver]
This sliver is at home in the water.
Prerequisites: Quick Sliver feat.
Benefits: All slivers grow fins and gain a swim speed equal to their land speed.

Amphibious Sliver [Sliver]
This sliver can survive underwater indefinitely.
Prerequisites: Finned Sliver feat.
Benefits: All slivers can survive underwater indefinitely.

Absorbing Sliver [Sliver]
The sliver is more resistant to physical trauma.
Benefits: All slivers gain DR 1/magic.
Special: You can gain this feat multiple times. Its effects stack.

Hardened Sliver [Sliver]
The sliver is more resistant to trauma.
Benefits: All slivers gain DR 1/adamantine.
Special: You can gain this feat multiple times. Its effects stack.

Impervious Sliver [Sliver]
The sliver is more resistant to trauma.
Prerequisites: Absorbing Sliver feat x2, Hardened Sliver feat x2
Benefits: All slivers damage reduction becomes DR X/- and stacks.

Healing Sliver [Sliver]
The slivers wounds heal quickly.
Benefits: All slivers gain Fast Healing 1.
Special: You can gain this feat multiple times. Its effects stack.

Regenerating Sliver [Sliver]
The sliver can heal from deadly injuries.
Prerequisites: Fast Healing 2 from Healing Sliver feat.
Benefits: All slivers gain Regeneration 1.
Special: You can gain this feat multiple times. Its effects stack.

Anti-magic Sliver [Sliver]
Magic doesn't work as well on this sliver.
Benefits: All slivers gain spell resistance +5.
Special: You can gain this feat multiple times. Its effects stack.

Sharing Sliver [Sliver]
The slivers abilities are shared farther.
Benefits: All slivers range for sharing abilities is increased by 30 ft.
Special: You can gain this feat multiple times. Its effects stack.

Fungus Sliver [Sliver]
The sliver grows stronger when damaged.
Benefits: Whenever a sliver is dealt damage it gains +1 morale bonus to attack and damage rolls for 1 minute.
Special: You can gain this feat multiple times. Its effects stack.

Vampiric Sliver [Sliver]
The sliver grows stronger when damaging others.
Benefits: Whenever a sliver deals damage it gains +1 morale bonus to attack and damage rolls for 1 minute.
Special: You can gain this feat multiple times. Its effects stack.

Grappling Sliver [Sliver]
The sliver can grapple better.
Benefits: Slivers do not provoke an attack of opportunity when they make a touch attack to start a grapple. They also gain a +4 bonus on all grapple checks, regardless of whether they started the grapple.

Grabbing Sliver [Sliver]
Flavor text.
Prerequisites: Grappling Sliver feat.
Benefits: All slivers gain the Improved Grab ability.

Constricting Sliver [Sliver]
The sliver can grab you and squeeze.
Prerequisites: Grappling Sliver feat.
Benefits: All sliver gain Constrict damage of 1d6 + it's strength modifier.

Acid Sliver [Sliver]
The sliver drips with acid.
Benefits: All sliver attacks deal +1 acid damage.
Special: You can gain this feat multiple times. Its effects stack.
((One for Cold, Electric, Fire, and Sonic damage too.))

Acid Resistant Sliver [Sliver]
The sliver is more resistant to acid.
Benefits: All slivers gain Resistance 2 to acid.
Special: You can gain this feat multiple times. Its effects stack.
((One for Cold, Electric, Fire, and Sonic damage too.))

Acid Ward Sliver [Sliver]
The sliver is immune to acid.
Prerequisites: Acid Resistant Sliver feat granting at least Resistance 4 to acid.
Benefits: All slivers gain immunity acid.
((One for Cold, Electric, Fire, and Sonic damage too.))

Other feats could include:
Immunity to fear, mind-affecting abilities, types of magic, etc.
Frightful Presence
Ethereal
Incorporeal
Deals ability damage
longrange attack
Sliver may Coup De Grace itself to deal that much damage -10 to creature
Slivers hits reduce caster levels
Dispell Magic
Sliver hits deal poison
Reach
Critical range/multiplier increase

Sliver Queens I'd put at Gargantuan or above (18+ HD), with high Int scores. and unique, non-shared abilities. Sliver Overlords I'd put at Large or above (11+ HD) with moderate Int scores and unique, non-shared abilities. Sliver Legions I'd but at Huge or above (15+ HD) with the unique ability: Slivers gain +1 Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution for each other sliver in range of the Sliver Legion. Maybe a special template for each?

Of course, this probably isn't perfect, I'm sure I've missed plenty, and there is still "room to grow." :smallwink:


Edit: And don't forget that the sliver's ability is evolutionary, not magical. Some of their abilities are magical, but that's just another evolutionary tool they use. So they shouldn't be tied just to the schools of magic.

Grax Hellfire
2008-02-26, 07:34 PM
Some thoughts:
(by the way...BLOODY BRILLIANT!:biggrin: )

Slivers come in a variety of types:

Normal
Lesser
Greater
Legendary

The normal slivers only possess the transient sliver abilities, that is, they do not grant sliver powers.

The lesser slivers DO possess innate powers, and convey those powers to ALL, even enemy, slivers within range, or the encounter as described above. These would be muscle slivers, bloodclot slivers, etc.

The greater slivers are rare. They possess unnaturally powerful abilities, and grant them to all slivers in range. It would be a stretch to ever encounter more than two of the same type in proximity of eachother. These would be brood slivers, and probably other rare slivers.

The legendary slivers are the Overlord and Queen. An overlord and queen can coexist, and indeed would choose to, but two queens or two overlords would likely marshall forces against eachother. These are almost unique to planes or planets, as any time that there would be more, they would find and destroy eachother.

All abilities stack if possible. If an ability would be hard to stack, like fly for example, it is at the discretion of the DM whether to partially stack them. In this example, say the "flying slivers" grant a fly speed of 40 ft with poor maneuverability. Two "flying slivers" may combined grant 50 ft and average. Another alternative is to list stacking rules for such effects.

To make it even more fun, the "normal" slivers take on the appearance of a sliver currently granting them a power. They do not convey the power, but they will almost surely fool enemies into attacking them rather than the sliver actually granting the power, thus the other slivers would not lose abilities if it dies. Normal slivers can only imitate slivers up to one level higher, or any level lower.

As for the level of slivers, this is similar to, and maybe even tied to, size advances with Hit Dice. There are normal slivers at all of the possible levels, except maybe legendary, and indeed normal slivers are not that uncommon. As they are weak by themselves they would not likely be found without some "power" slivers.

Each "power" sliver has a unique appearance depending on the bonus it grants.

The normal slivers act as though mindless, but any "power" sliver grants hivemind, as follows:

Lesser Hivemind
If one is aware of a particular danger, they all are. If one in a group is not flat-footed, none of them are. No sliver in a group is considered flanked unless all of them are. Apply this when one lesser sliver is in the group.

Greater Hivemind
Same as lesser except that this new advanced linked state grants the following: blindfight if not all are blind or otherwise unable to discern locations,+2 Reflex Save and +2 dodge bonus against attacks if not all are blind due to increased awareness, +5 on Spot and Listen checks again due to increased awareness. Apply this when 5 or more lesser slivers or one greater sliver is in the group.

Legendary Hivemind
Same as greater, except that this ultimate state of connection grants the following: all slivers within 50 miles of the Queen or Overlord are granted the bonuses granted by each sliver. All slivers have the same awareness of any area surrounding any sliver, as well as a general direction in reference to each sliver. Any sliver within this range makes superior descisions, and uses advanced coordinated tactics, as though being directly controlled by the Queen or Overlord. Apply this only within the 50 mile radius of a Queen or Overlord.

Slivers under lesser hivemind have a DC+10 bonus against domination type spells and effects. A successful domination, however, grants control of the entire group. Any other hivemind is totally immune to such effects, as are its members.

As for the Queen's and Overlord's abilities, here are my reccomendations:
Queen - Full round action: produce 1 HD normal sliver (Ex)
Overlord - Bestow an ability uppon a sliver that it could attain at its sliverB]level[/B], once per week, (Ex)
- Press-gang opposing sliver, if a sliver is being controlled by anything other than the overlord or an allied Queen, the sliver makes an opposed check to end the domination and gain control

Grax Hellfire
2008-02-26, 08:00 PM
Slivers that are encountered may have any makeup at the DM's discretion, or a random table could be created to roll on.

CR will be determined by the ability of sliver, and for the purposes of combining slivers with different abilities something like this may work.

Slivers have a CR according to there level of sliver. Low level, say 1-3 HD and not possible to possess any ability innately have a +1, mid level 4-9 HD and possibly possessing a lesser sliver ability have a +3, high level 10-19 and capable of possessing a greater sliver ability have a +5.

In addition to those modifiers, sliver abilities grant CR adjustments. Most lesser powers may be as little as +1/2 CR or as much as +2, while greater powers would probably range from +2 to +6, and these are applied any time the ability stacks. For example:

There are a total of 10 slivers in this group.
3 Low level normal slivers
2 Mid level normal slivers
1 high level normal sliver
3 Lesser slivers (mid level)
1 Greater sliver (high level)

One lesser sliver grants +1 to attack and damage rolls (CR guess of +1/2)
Two lesser slivers each grant +3 natural armor for a total of +6 (CR guess of +1.5 each, +3 total)
The greater sliver grants a 40 ft. fly speed with average maneuverability (CR guess of +3)

Thus the CRs would be:
low level normal= +7.5 CR (1 for low level, +3.5 for lesser abilities, +3 for greater)
all mid levels= +9.5 CR (+3 for mid level, +3.5 for lesser abilities, +3 for greater)
the high level= +11.5 CR (+5 for mid leve, and you get the idea)

The nice thing about this system is that the ability sharing bonuses are only calculated once and applied evenly to every sliver. Also, the above CRs listed are modifiers to be added to whatever a "base" CR for a sliver would be, and that would depend on whatever natural, non sliver, abilities it possessed, i.e. its claw attacks etc.

Grax Hellfire
2008-02-26, 08:06 PM
These are just some general guideline and things. The concepts are what I'm after, not necessarily the numbers. The numbers may change once other aspects of slivers are nailed down, but these could be channels of thought to pursue.