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View Full Version : Questions on the Wizard as an NPC (my group, don't look or small puppies will drown)



CrazedGoblin
2008-02-25, 01:42 PM
Im looking to add wizards to my campaign as effective NPCs but so far all i can get is the wizard getting one spell off then being slaughtered by the front liners, has anyone got any idea on useing wozards effectivly in various ways, the group is level 7, Desert and open sea based.

any help much apreciated

SamTheCleric
2008-02-25, 01:49 PM
Invisibility usually works.

As does a fireball launched from 400' away... :smallwink:

CrazedGoblin
2008-02-25, 01:51 PM
id like to give them a small chance hehe:smalltongue:

Kurald Galain
2008-02-25, 02:00 PM
Sure. The wizard has fly, mirror image, and stoneskin active.

Ellisande
2008-02-25, 02:17 PM
While other people on here are much better at planning for wizards than I, a couple ideas that haven't been mentioned here yet:

1) Put a couple of mooks between the party and the wizard. Cutting through them will give the wizards extra rounds.

2) Escape route. Give the wizard a plan, deeper than "stand here until I get slaughtered". This often involves creative spell use.

Mojo_Rat
2008-02-25, 02:20 PM
Really the answer to your solution is Invisibility or possibly how long the wizard has to buff. Mage Armor Shield Mirror image displacement stoneskin. The NPC can have all of these as Scrolls Or low charge wands.

Then things like Web or Similar spells and Your party is struggling to move while the NPC flies around doing its thing.

SamTheCleric
2008-02-25, 02:23 PM
The real question, though, is how is the party slaughtering the caster so fast? What weakness are they exploiting?

Are they charging as soon as they see him? Make him flying, on the other side of a river, or in some difficult terrain.

Are they tearing him apart with ranged weapons? Gust of Wind and Wind Wall work wonders, as do mirror image, blur and displacement.

Are they having divine intervention? Dispel Magic. Ready to counterspell with it... cast it in an area to debuff them...

Are they just swarming him too fast? Summon Monster, Wall of Fire, Web etc can slow down the fastest barbarian/scout/dervishes.

Try working on battlefield control. A well placed slow could cripple a party that relys on the Big Bad Fighter getting his full attack.

CrazedGoblin
2008-02-25, 02:23 PM
thanks for help guys, i shall implement these ideas :smallbiggrin:

Proven_Paradox
2008-02-25, 04:48 PM
As the others have said, examine what the party is doing and prepare for it. Wizards need an intelligence of 16 or more to be viable; they've probably though of the possibilities, and know how to prepare for it. In combat, the best wizard is the one that specializes in battlefield control. Grease, Web, Glitterdust, Wall of Iron, Solid Fog, and so will keep him alive long enough to strike with debuffs like Ray of Stupidity, Enervation, Hideous Laughter, Baleful Polymorph, and so on. Also, a wizard should never fight alone; summoned allies or mooks help with this.

Your average wizard is more intelligent that the most intelligent person you could ever actually meet in person. Play them as such.

Azerian Kelimon
2008-02-25, 04:53 PM
As paradox said, solid fog. Then, proceed to Fort save the party's wizard ass, Ref save the cleric, and Glitterdust meleers and skillmonkeys.

holywhippet
2008-02-25, 05:07 PM
Read through the spells available to arcane spellcasters and consider each of them both in their own right and as a combo. For example, mass reduce person to slow them down and shrink them followed by black tentacles to pin them down - since they are now small or tiny they get a penalty to their grapple checks. Summon in some monsters with ranged attacks to smack them around at range. If they get in close, use mass enlarge person on your summoned creatures and start grappling them.

Maerok
2008-02-25, 06:05 PM
You could make the wizard more defensive by having them ride some kind of desert or sea-based creature or even some kind of hovering rig (sand skiff or the like).

ladditude
2008-02-25, 08:44 PM
Wizards get divination so they would know when they would be attacked. Thus, they would have all the appropriate buffs. I'ld say throw a Wiz 7/ Effigy Master 1 at them. Then the wizard (complete with Fly, Invisibility, Mage Armor, Shield, Mirror Image, Stoneskin, Displacement, etc.) would fly around the room debuffing the party/using a staff/wand/scrolls while his pet eats them. The wizard would also be in an environment optimal for fighting the party.

Thus, equal level wizard promptly eats them.

Khanderas
2008-02-26, 05:46 AM
Why do people kill wizards ?
Because they are highly dangerous and comparativly easy to kill (if you don't add immune and semi immune spells like invisibility).

A simple and mundane way of handling that is to give the sap some clothes that do not scream Wizard. Either real clothes and suck up the arcane failure, OR let him have a robe with the illusion of studded leather.
Make him look like an NPC, and the enemies would be much more probable to attack the PC's.

Once the fight is on, he could do his buffs and then go invisible. Or atleast fireball from a decent cover of PC's.

Kyace
2008-02-26, 05:57 AM
As the others have said, examine what the party is doing and prepare for it. Wizards need an intelligence of 16 or more to be viable; they've probably though of the possibilities, and know how to prepare for it. [snip]

Your average wizard is more intelligent that the most intelligent person you could ever actually meet in person. Play them as such.
Have you meet 54 people? Then odds are you've meet someone smarter than int 16. The odds of rolling a 17 or 18 on 3d6 are 4 in 216 or 1 in 54.

Zincorium
2008-02-26, 06:19 AM
Have you meet 54 people? Then odds are you've meet someone smarter than int 16. The odds of rolling a 17 or 18 on 3d6 are 4 in 216 or 1 in 54.

You're assuming people roll for stats in real life.

Secondly, by your logic, you also know 2 people from that same group with an intelligence of less than 6, and one with less than 4.

The odds get even weirder when you account for age modifiers. Anyone over 70's ability scores would (purely statistically) range from 6-21, assuming that intelligence created neither a benefit or penalty to reaching that age.

Azerian Kelimon
2008-02-26, 06:24 AM
At least we know for sure that people that reach old age or higher DO have to roll a d%. If they get a 95 or lower, they get a serious boost to WIS and will give good counsel to any grandchildren they have. And they likely get a boost to CHA too.

Kyace
2008-02-26, 06:49 AM
You're assuming people roll for stats in real life.

Secondly, by your logic, you also know 2 people from that same group with an intelligence of less than 6, and one with less than 4.

The odds get even weirder when you account for age modifiers. Anyone over 70's ability scores would (purely statistically) range from 6-21, assuming that intelligence created neither a benefit or penalty to reaching that age.
An Int score of 4(±.5) is roughly as likely as an IQ score of 70. An Int Score of 16 (±.5) is roughly as likely as an IQ score of 130.

My math is here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2382308&postcount=29) if you doubt me. :P

Galdor Miriel
2008-02-26, 08:34 AM
An Int score of 4(±.5) is roughly as likely as an IQ score of 70. An Int Score of 16 (±.5) is roughly as likely as an IQ score of 130.

My math is here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2382308&postcount=29) if you doubt me. :P

By the way, I thought every ten points in IQ was supposed to be 1 standard deviation on a normal distribution, which would make 130 equivalent to 19 Int. Also, 3d6 probability of int 18 = ~0.5 % which would be 3 sigma or an IQ of 130? I could easily be wrong on that though.

Also, you assumed purely Gaussian behavior, when you get out on the tails of such a curve though, the correct distribution to determine probabilities is actually Poissonian, which would give a higher probability for the higher intelligences, though the numbers would of course still be pretty small.

Galdor

Yami
2008-02-26, 09:04 AM
Back on track here, I have some more suggestions for the OP, mostly for sea encounters.

Defenestrating Sphere.

Complete Arcane, throws people about, best reason to specialize in evocation.

Allow me to demonstrate. Ban let's see, Conjuration, Enchantment and Necromancy. You still have protection from arrows, up far in advance, not to mention mage armour and cat's grace. Stoneskins last a good while and can be on you before the encounter starts.

And then you have minor image. "Your look out spots some flotsam up ahead. It seems to be the remains of a ship wreck, and a few survivors can be seen clinging to flotsam as well as a group huddled about a crudely made raft." You know what the best part is? Lasts concentration +2 rounds.

Drop the illusion when the party moves in to investigate, and use it to obscure thier vision of the real you. Cast fly then.

Round two. Suprise!
Defenestrating Sphere on whomever has the heaviest armour. Whoosh, randomly throw somewhere. Hopefully off the boat. Round three? Combat starts. Improved initiative cat's grace and a decent dex give you a fair chance at going first. And when you do, invisibility and fly back as the illusion vanishes, leaving but an empty raft.

Subsequent rounds you ask? Move the sphere, and defenestrate! Recast the sphere and invisibility as needed until the boat is yours.

Tyger
2008-02-26, 09:42 AM
Back on track here, I have some more suggestions for the OP, mostly for sea encounters.

Defenestrating Sphere.

Complete Arcane, throws people about, best reason to specialize in evocation.

Allow me to demonstrate. Ban let's see, Conjuration, Enchantment and Necromancy. You still have protection from arrows, up far in advance, not to mention mage armour and cat's grace. Stoneskins last a good while and can be on you before the encounter starts.

And then you have minor image. "Your look out spots some flotsam up ahead. It seems to be the remains of a ship wreck, and a few survivors can be seen clinging to flotsam as well as a group huddled about a crudely made raft." You know what the best part is? Lasts concentration +2 rounds.

Drop the illusion when the party moves in to investigate, and use it to obscure thier vision of the real you. Cast fly then.

Round two. Suprise!
Defenestrating Sphere on whomever has the heaviest armour. Whoosh, randomly throw somewhere. Hopefully off the boat. Round three? Combat starts. Improved initiative cat's grace and a decent dex give you a fair chance at going first. And when you do, invisibility and fly back as the illusion vanishes, leaving but an empty raft.

Subsequent rounds you ask? Move the sphere, and defenestrate! Recast the sphere and invisibility as needed until the boat is yours.


All good advice, but you forgot to add in the best part. While the first Defenestrating Sphere is rolling aobut tossing folks off the boat, cast a second one. Now you have two of them tossing people around. Remember, only takes a move action to have the sphere attack. :)

THat said, the advice above has been great. I have the reverse problem. I play wizards in my play time, and when DMing, I have to remember to dumb them down a bit, so as to not take out the entire party.

Played properly, an even level wizard is a serious threat to the survival of a party, especially if that party does not have a wizard of its own.

ashmanonar
2008-02-26, 12:59 PM
The real question, though, is how is the party slaughtering the caster so fast? What weakness are they exploiting?

Are they charging as soon as they see him? Make him flying, on the other side of a river, or in some difficult terrain.

Are they tearing him apart with ranged weapons? Gust of Wind and Wind Wall work wonders, as do mirror image, blur and displacement.

Are they having divine intervention? Dispel Magic. Ready to counterspell with it... cast it in an area to debuff them...

Are they just swarming him too fast? Summon Monster, Wall of Fire, Web etc can slow down the fastest barbarian/scout/dervishes.

Try working on battlefield control. A well placed slow could cripple a party that relys on the Big Bad Fighter getting his full attack.

Our party is extremely good at fighting casters, and it tends to go like:

-Encounter begins, either with a surprise round or we manage to spot/hear.
-Our ranged people (duskblade, ranger, etc) ready their action to shoot when the caster begins casting.
-Caster begins casting.
-Spell disrupted, unless the caster makes a concentration check.
-Ready actions.
-Caster casts, disrupted.

Wash, rinse, repeat. Us lowly meleers then usually clean up the mooks and anything else in range.

Or, you could do what we were doing last session; we diplomacied 2 different groups. In one, we whacked the hell out of 2 guys, then diplomacied the other two to give up their arms and go home, and not disturb us again. (Our campaign is a war campaign, against bugbears being manipulated by vampire spawn and necromancers; they're more than happy to leave combat and go home.)

In the other, we smacked the caster down, and diploed the other 5 soldiers to stop fighting.

Ridiculously effective.

whateverness
2008-02-26, 05:26 PM
I once DM'ed a homespun campaign with an evil sorcerer baron, and the final fight lasted almost 12 rounds...
First, in front of the secret entrance that the PC's came in, there was a 20 ft. deep pit that was covered by an illusion spell. Next, i had the wizard cast stoneskin, invisibility, and spider climb in that order, allowing him to walk on the ceiling, be invisible, and be immune to almost any non-critical ranged attack damage. Finally, he cast mirror image on himself, producing 6 visible images of himself, also on the ceiling. Of course, the sorcerer knew summon monster spells, to remain hidden for as long as he could. Eventually, the PC's both destroyed all the images and realized that he was a sorcerer casting summon spells, which meant that the real caster was invisible. Of course, my PC's were 9th lvl, so... To make a long story short, up your wizard with tons of enchantments and illusions, and good luck :smallwink:
Yay my fourth post! :smallsmile:

Kyace
2008-02-27, 12:26 AM
I once DM'ed a homespun campaign with an evil sorcerer baron, and the final fight lasted almost 12 rounds...
First, in front of the secret entrance that the PC's came in, there was a 20 ft. deep pit that was covered by an illusion spell. Next, i had the wizard cast stoneskin, invisibility, and spider climb in that order, allowing him to walk on the ceiling, be invisible, and be immune to almost any non-critical ranged attack damage. Finally, he cast mirror image on himself, producing 6 visible images of himself, also on the ceiling. Of course, the sorcerer knew summon monster spells, to remain hidden for as long as he could. Eventually, the PC's both destroyed all the images and realized that he was a sorcerer casting summon spells, which meant that the real caster was invisible. Of course, my PC's were 9th lvl, so... To make a long story short, up your wizard with tons of enchantments and illusions, and good luck :smallwink:
Yay my fourth post! :smallsmile:

From the Mirror Image (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/mirrorImage.htm) SRD description: "An attacker must be able to see the images to be fooled. If you are invisible or an attacker shuts his or her eyes, the spell has no effect."