Monks and Gauntlets?

[Ganurath]

I recently let my mind wander, and it fell upon the gauntlet. In the base description with all the numbers, it says 1d2 for Small creatures and 1d3 for Medium. However, in the detailed description...
Gauntlet: This metal glove lets you deal lethal damage rather than nonlethal damage with unarmed strikes. A strike with a gauntlet is otherwise considered an unarmed attack. The cost and weight given are for a single gauntlet. Medium and heavy armors (except breastplate) come with gauntlets.This begs the question: Assuming the character is proficient, can a Monk still get their full unarmed damage when using a (magic) gauntlet?

[mabriss lethe]

I don't know if that's ever been directly answered by the RAW. I know the question has been asked several times though.

In this case, remember a few things.

1. Descriptive text usually takes precendence if it makes more sense: In this case, it would mean that a monk wielding gauntlets would deal full unarmed damage (effectively using the gauntlets as a vehicle for enhancements.) Since that is explicitly stated in the weapon's text.

2. The SRD lists the gauntlet under Unarmed Attacks (a subset of simple weapons) alongside a barehanded unarmed strike. It can be argued that anyone proficient with an unarmed strike (anyone with improved unarmed strike) or with simple weapons, would be proficient with gauntlets as weapons. I could be argued the other way as well, by saying if it's not on the monks list of weapons, then they aren't proficient with them.

3. The monk gets enough grief. Even if it isn't RAW, few DMs would take exception to giving the monk a small boost that a.) makes sense thematically and b.)puts them on more even terms with other characters.

[Draz74]

RAW, the increased damage works. Although you do have to spend a feat on proficiency if you don't want -4 attack.

The big debate in interpreting this rule is whether Flurry of Blows works with a gauntlet. I say "no, with the strictest interpretation of the RAW," but an argument can be made either way, as the RAW are ambiguous (or even self-contradictory).


3. The monk gets enough grief. Even if it isn't RAW, few DMs would take exception to giving the monk a small boost that a.) makes sense thematically and b.)puts them on more even terms with other characters.

Only, if I'm the DM, I say it makes absolutely no sense thematically. A light, mobile, unarmored warrior, who specializes in fighting unarmed ... and wears big metal gloves to hit things with? I'd much rather houserule that gauntlets give Monks absolutely no advantages, and homebrew some other way for them to not suck. Like wristbands that give the benefit of magic weapons or something. Just not gauntlets.

[Farmer42]

Actually, throughout Asia there are numerous martial arts known for using some from of wrapping, from roe to chain, to increase potency of damage on strikes. It doesn't inherently not fit, it's all in the flavor you choose to use.

[Thanatos 51-50]

A magical gauntlet so a monk can get his fancy +5 shocking, dragonbane weapon, too?

Sure, just flavor it as cloth bandages around his hands, or give him tattoos or such to the same effect.

[Zanatos777]

Savage Species has an necklace that would work with the monk's unarmed attack. I would suggest looking there.

I would just say it but I'm not sure that is allowed.

[horseboy]

Man! Well, we did just get done with Paladins and alignments. Atheism just popped up. I guess it's time for a monk thread. :smallfrown:

By the FAQ, no they can't. By a sensible house rule, sure they can.

[Funkyodor]

Might want to refer to previous posts concerning this issue (search function works wonders).

Just one example from last month.
Super beginner monk/unarmed fighting questions (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=69577)

[Citizen Joe]

Since gauntlets come on medium and heavy armors, then wearing them might be considered medium or heavy armor. Since monks lose most of their nice abilities then it is possible that they lose their unarmed attack as well. Of course, if you read up on monk attacks, they don't have to use their hands at all. So, end result... stop pissing off the DM with stupid stuff like this.

[Chronos]

There's also the question of whether monks are proficient with gauntlets. The problem there is, shortly after you ask the question, you also realize that the rules never actually give monks proficiency with unarmed strikes, either. So then your options are to either rule that monks are even more incredibly sucktastic, or to find some justification for ruling that they're proficient with unarmed strikes but not with gauntlets, or to rule that they're proficient with both, despite neither being mentioned.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Might want to refer to previous posts concerning this issue (search function works wonders).In fairness, it really doesn't. The 300 second delay, especially when searching crashes the connection half the time, is usually enough for most people to just post a thread.

[McMindflayer]

According to the 3.5 FAQ (as of 12/21/07), "Can a Monk get her unarmed strikes enhanced as a Magic Weapon?
A: No. Even a Magic Gauntlet or Spiked Gauntlet isn't the ideal answer, since these aren't listed as special monk weapons. (and therefore aren't as versatile as unarmed strikes.)"

Notice how it doesn't mention anything about damage? It just says they aren't monk weapons. THis combined with the PHB makes me think that gauntlets deal unarmed strike damage, but a Monk with a gauntlet loses anything that is granted by monk special weapons. Which is, essentially, Flurry of Blows.

[Khanderas]

Since gauntlets come on medium and heavy armors, then wearing them might be considered medium or heavy armor. Since monks lose most of their nice abilities then it is possible that they lose their unarmed attack as well. Of course, if you read up on monk attacks, they don't have to use their hands at all. So, end result... stop pissing off the DM with stupid stuff like this.
They are included in medium and heavy armor. Not quite the same as saying the leather gloves impedes the wearer in any way.

RAW can certainly be interpreted either way, but I am a firm beliver in gloves without nonmagical ac would not hinder a monks abilities in any way. General concensus says "let the poor fool monk have it anyway"

Edit: Regarding proficiency, a monk with gloves fights exactly the same as he does without gloves so no proficiency needed. SPIKED gloves, is a whole other issue, using that you alter your fighting style and you give yourself the -4 attack penalty.

[Funkyodor]

Well, you could go the route of buying a Luck Blade with one wish, use it, and sell it back for a slight loss. Wish to change the following to include the word in bold.


A monk’s unarmed strike is treated both as a masterwork manufactured weapon and a natural weapon for the purpose of spells and effects that enhance or improve either masterwork manufactured weapons or natural weapons.

Head down to the local upgrade shop and get whatever you want. As an added benefit, this helps all monks everywhere if you successfully made your Knowlege (Meta-Game) check.

Or change the Ki Focus enhancement to allow more than just side abilities channel through the weapon, and allow Monk Unarmed damage as well. Which is what I thought it did until reading it in detail.