Things you dislike about 4th edition.

[Oracle_Hunter]

Well that's not o bad as fluff for using them as a second wind. It's still a little weak for surging back up to full HP after the battle though. It seems like they should have placed a limit on healing surges. It's also interesting in how they interact with the cleric's healing mojo, or the warlord's inspiring word. If I'm not mistaken, a warlord can "inspire" his comrade back from negative hit points. I may very well be wrong though...AFB.

There is a limit on healing surges. You only have so many per day.

Most of the class-based heals are fluffed as rallying someone's internal strength instead of filling them with healing power. So "Inspiring Word" inspires you to keep going, while "Healing Word" uses a touch of divine power to bolster your spirit. Ditto when you're unconscious - you're not dead, or in a coma, you're on death's door. "Inspiring Word" gets you to move away from the light at the end of the tunnel, while "Healing Word" works pretty much the same.

[Tsotha-lanti]

Well that's not o bad as fluff for using them as a second wind. It's still a little weak for surging back up to full HP after the battle though. It seems like they should have placed a limit on healing surges used in such a way. It's also interesting in how they interact with the cleric's healing mojo, or the warlord's inspiring word. If I'm not mistaken, a warlord can "inspire" his comrade back from negative hit points. I may very well be wrong though...AFB.

Yes, but a character may also spontaneously get up and return to the fight (20+ on a death save means you immediately go up to 0 HP and spend a healing surge).

The system has the fault of not being able to model actual injuries, but no edition of D&D has done that. (Well, except for AD&D 2nd ed. Combat & Tactics, which I seem to recall had tables for critical hits and specific injuries?)

The important thing, though, is that it's good and functional mechanic. You can RP any way you like around it.

[Crow]

It is true that you can RP around it if you want, and the surges are limited by your daily allotment, but it just seems "forced" when everybody in the group is able to basically pump up after every combat. When I was talking about a limiting factor, I was thinking about something like no more than 1 unassisted healing surge per combat until you've had an extended rest.


Yes, but a character may also spontaneously get up and return to the fight (20+ on a death save means you immediately go up to 0 HP and spend a healing surge).

That is nice when that happens to you, but it leads to your party-members wondering why you didn't just try harder before you fell in the first place. :smalltongue:

[Tsotha-lanti]

When i was talking about a limiting factor, I was thinking about something like no more than 1 unassisted healing surge per combat until you've had an extended rest.

Well, the idea is that you go into each fight "fresh" - you've gotten your energy back, even if you're still scratched and wounded.

Besides, with a cleric or warlord, the party could just keep taking short rests and using inspiring word/healing word to expend as many healing surges as they want to, with some bonuses. (Then again, if they're economical, they'll do that anyway. I personally just allow PCs to benefit from inspiring word/healing word on every healing surge used while taking a short rest.)

Your way, you'd have to limit the number of encounters per "activity period," since they're mostly tuned for a party at full HP. No reason it can't be done.


That is nice when that happens to you, but it leads to your party-members wondering why you didn't just try harder before you fell in the first place. :smalltongue:

Your party members have to be pretty silly. Just look at a boxer at the end of a round and the beginning of the next one - a little time-out can do wonders.

[Crow]

Well, the idea is that you go into each fight "fresh" - you've gotten your energy back, even if you're still scratched and wounded.

Maybe so, but some wounds would still affect you. It's a little odd that any injuries sustained in the first fight of the day (mind you, bad enough that you could possibly die in just three rounds), would not affect you at all after that combat, provided some ally was nearby enough to provide a heal check at the right time. Every wound, no matter how serious or life-threatening can be shrugged off with no difficulty as long as you get some timely first aid? I am assuming it was more than "your will to fight", since you almost died.


Besides, with a cleric or warlord, the party could just keep taking short rests and using inspiring word/healing word to expend as many healing surges as they want to, with some bonuses. (Then again, if they're economical, they'll do that anyway. I personally just allow PCs to benefit from inspiring word/healing word on every healing surge used while taking a short rest.)

My group already does this, as do the groups of most people on here it seems. At least in this way, there is some explanation (which in the case of the Warlord may be considered dubious). Whereas a character by himself blowing healing surges just doesn't feel right to some.


Your way, you'd have to limit the number of encounters per "activity period," since they're mostly tuned for a party at full HP. No reason it can't be done.

Doesn't the game already do this by the fact that you have a limited number of healing surges to begin with. I would eliminate the maximum per day and make it per encounter.

I don't think the party needs to be at full-hp to handle a level appropriate encounter though either. Once you start exceeding the recommended guideline though, I'd agree.




Your party members have to be pretty silly. Just look at a boxer at the end of a round and the beginning of the next one - a little time-out can do wonders.

I'm going to guess you haven't boxed much. They "look" better, but after you throw a few punches, that big elephant crawls right back up on your back.

[Gavin Sage]

There isn't one... just like there's no fluff for "levels" or "HP" or "attack bonus."

There isn't? Except for HP they are obvious really.

And HP is one I always ignored for justifying at higher levels anyways.

The problem with 4e is that it tries use just the fluff for justifying differences. Which is inherently less fufilling to a fair number of people given the reactions I've seen.

[Oracle_Hunter]

The problem with 4e is that it tries use just the fluff for justifying differences. Which is inherently less fufilling to a fair number of people given the reactions I've seen.

I'll have to ask you to elaborate on what you mean by "use just the fluff for justifying differences."

[Shadowtraveler]

So Cleric A channels the might of the most powerful interdimensional being that has ever been conceived, Monk B has ascended to a higher state of conciousness enabling them to access powers inconceivable to lesser minded beings, Joe McSlash'en'Stab 4.C just breathes in and out for a minute. Hmmm...:smallconfused:I'm pretty sure the Martial power isn't mundane if it's possible to become a demigod by mere physical prowess and training.

[Jayabalard]

I'm going to guess you haven't boxed much. They "look" better, but after you throw a few punches, that big elephant crawls right back up on your back.I'm glad you commented; I definitely agree.

[Roland St. Jude]

Sheriff of Moddingham: This thread has reached 50 pages and is being locked. Long threads cause strain on the system and we have a 50 page cutoff policy. There are many threads about 4e available, I believe most comments relevant to 4e could easily fit in one of those. Still, if someone wants to start a new iteration of this thread, go ahead.