Alienist Modifications

[Hectonkhyres]

One of the players due to take part in my upcoming horror-comedy and he has voiced interest in taking up the mantle of Alienist from the Complete Arcane.. I have only been in a game with such a character once and, while it had a whole lot of delicious fluff, the crunch just didn't sit right with me.

My first thought is that the psudonatural creature template is, quite frankly, disappointing. Lets look at the traits it bestows upon the base creature:

Resistance to acid and energy. Bleh.
A few points of damage reduction. Tentacle monsters are bulletproof?
One dose of True Strike. Also nice but generic.
Spell Resistance. Can be real handy in many situations and seems to fit the fluff.
Freaky, tentacle-monster alternate form. I use a -1 morale penalty to wipe my hindquarters.

What we end up with is a really ugly and rather durable abomination against man, god and nature.

I'm not sure I'm content to leave this thing be in any game I am going to be running. If somebody is going to be summoning otherworldly creatures right out of Lovecraft's worst nightmares and onto the gameboard, I want the monstrosities to be distinctive. Not psudonatural-direwolf-in-kevlar. Ideally, I would write up three or four variant templates and pick which one goes on the summoned creature with a diceroll. Even an Alienist should be left guessing at the nature of the noneuclidean thing they just pulled out of nowhere.

Since the crowd here at Giantitp has a long history of inventiveness and has come to my aid once before, I felt it would be a good idea to bounce the idea off your collective head before I bleed out of my eyeballs.

[Icewalker]

Sounds very creepy. I've always been disturbed by the look in the eyes of the alienist in their picture.

Yeah, I suppose you are right. The pseudonatural template leaves a bit of horror to be desired. I'm not the one to figure it out a whole template for this, but I may think of an idea or two and suggest them.

[Hectonkhyres]

If I can walk away from the computer with a few fresh ideas for alternative psudonatural creatures, I will consider this a victory. Its just that I have been doing this sort of thing for so long that my brain jams and I need somebody to kick it until it starts working again.

[Proven_Paradox]

Perhaps some psionic or mind-affecting abilities? I could see some fear SLA's being right up there for the template.

Perhaps some acid-related abilities? The mass of tentacles and such seems to be ripe for acid-coated goodness to me.

Perhaps some grapple bonuses? 'Cause what kind of tentacle monster doesn't grapple well, y'know?

[ZeroNumerous]

Don't forget atleast one template designed around Swallow Whole. :smallbiggrin:

[Primal Fury]

oh! thats awsome! i've always loved the idea of the alienist, but the actual class made me go "...this friggin sucks" and i didnt particularly like the name either...
well, i remember a while back, during the summer maybe, there was a special on TNT. there were a series of stories built around strange and unexplainable events. one of them was a lovecraftian tale, i wont get into the specifics, but near the end, a tentacle burst out of the ground, swallowed someone whole, and turned the tentacle into a disgusting parody of the guys face with oozing black ichor where his eyes used to be, and it just screamed and screamed. ah, good times, goood times.
i think that maybe the half-farspawn template would be more appropriate than the pseudonatural template as well. and maybe actually visiting the far realm is a requirement. i dont like the increasing wisdom penalties though, i know its an arcane prc, but what about us wisdom based arcane casters huh? dont we get any love???:smallfrown:

ah... it seems that i was mistaken, there is no wisdom penalty, just penalties to social rolls, my bad

[streakster]

Hmm..

One template could be "Swarm" - the creature is actually composed of a swarm of bees or hornets. Grants a bonus to AC and DR, and a fly speed.

Another could be "Ravelled" - the creature is woven of tentacles. If it unfolds, it loses its strength modifier, but gains a huge reach and bonus to grapple.

"Hideous Hybrid" - Applies two random templates to the creature. "Hi! I'm a four-limbed, fire-breathing, scaly wolf-thing!"

[JoshuaZ]

I'd suggest a random addition of some of the Illithid heritage feats (you wouldn't call them that flavor-wise obviously). You could end up with a normal looking wolf... except that it has two tentacles and eats brains.

Statted up: Template: Alienist 1.
The creature gains 4 random ililthid heritage feats, wild talent, and 1 level 1 power from the psion/wilder list, manifester level equal to its hd.

Template: Alienist 2: Gains 3 random illithid heritage feat, and gains a single level 1 power from a discipline list as an at will psi-like ability.

Another similar option would be to simply use the half-illithid template (not sure where that is in, I think it is in one of the Underdark books. It may also be in the Fiend Folio).

Other templates that might be interesting to add would be spellwarped, chimeric, and chameleon and voidmind. (I think a voidmind, chimeric wolf would be interesting to describe).

[Adumbration]

Maybe a "Shade", a shadowy version of the creature from the depths between the stars.

"Chameleon", except that instead of looking like the surrounding areas, it IS made of the same stuff. Rock on rock, vegetation in a jungle, wood in a forest, sand on desert. Gives traits accordingly (construct, plant, etc.).

[MorkaisChosen]

Something that makes it take on the form of a warped reflection of its enemies?

Maybe the old "Steal-your-body" thing the Intellect Devourer does: that turns up in at least one Lovecraft story I know of...

[Lord Iames Osari]

*blinks at Hectonkhyres's avatar* Izzat you, BlankSlate?

[Hectonkhyres]

*blinks at Hectonkhyres's avatar* Izzat you, BlankSlate?
You are correct, good sir. I am indeed the perpetually intoxicated oracle of perversion vaguely tolerated by Sluggites everywhere.
...
Damn, its a small internet. :smallbiggrin:

Now back to the topic of horrible, tentacular abominations other than myself. I really like the thought of summoned creatures with the Swallow Whole ability (statistically crappy but gloriously thematic) and/or a fun little fear-aura or SLA.

One possible little tweak would be for the creature to be summoned with one of a handful of low level spells already active as a SLA. A Psudonatural Creature starting the round with Invisibility cast on it would appear to rip its way into the dimension to attack you after stalking you from the other side. A creature with Blur would be still half-submerged in the membrane between worlds. One with blink would be moving across the battlefield through non-euclidean dimensions.

Of course game balance would be a factor... but that would be mitigated by the fact that the player has little or no control over what exactly he summons from the Far Realms. This means batmanning (already not the Alienist's strong suit) just became a whole lot harder.

Primal Fury: No, your first thought on the matter was correct. The Alienist does lose two points of wisdom (Alien Blessing at 2nd level). While this isn't exactly a game killer, two points is enough to ensure that there isn't an Alienist cleric with the madness domain anywhere in the universe... which is a real shame. The madness domain practically calls out for the Alienist.

[Primal Fury]

well, theres no reason they cant use non-exclusive spells from that domain.
and i would absolutely LOVE to be able to use this class (once its been modified properly) but another one has already stolen my heart: the Moonspeaker.

what the:smallconfused:... wait a second... an adaptation of the Moonspeaker, which is a class already heavily focused on summoning, given... a more... unnatural approach:smallamused:... pseudonatural and (possibly) half-farspawn versions of creatures called using summon natures ally, instead of shifting... temporarily aquiring alien aspects: tentacles, eyestalks, all that other nasty stuff, frightful presence for the summoned monstrosities... and maybe even some new metamagic feats/class abilities to strengthen the sense of otherwolrd-y-ness.

how does that sound?

[Lord Iames Osari]

You are correct, good sir. I am indeed the perpetually intoxicated oracle of perversion vaguely tolerated by Sluggites everywhere.
...
Damn, its a small internet. :smallbiggrin:
Yep. I'm Taurus II, btw.

[Parvum]

If you want something that is just damn creepy, a very simple template would be constant freedom of movement, mild fear effect, level drain, and the right immunities. True seeing would show a large white blot where the creature is.

Just think of watching a person, maybe someone that looks identical to someone you know, you, or even an epitome of average features with no points of note- a crudely drawn image in three dimensions. They never speak, don't seem to breathe, never blink. When they move, their feet perform the motions but it is blatantly obvious that they are not walking, and their limbs can visibly pass through sudden obstructions they pass. They do not respond to any of your words, or even to your powerful spells (namely save/die or any other spell that makes a character feel very safe/impenetrable). They simply walk towards you. They would just like to touch you.

The following has no relevance, and should probably be ignored:
Blinding Beauty!

...What?

If ugliness is a negative factor, and beauty is multiplicative, then two fuglies make pretty. By this logic, a pseudonatural chaos beast or gibbering mouther in it's horrid form would be a nymph! Logic!

[Realms of Chaos]

To be the devil's advocate, I'd like to point out a couple of points against the suggested "fix".

1. The Law of Uncapturable Chaos
Simply put, you cannot wrap up all of the chaos and strangeness of possible far-realms creatures into any one template, or even into a collection of templates. Even it you were to produce twenty templates right now, someone else would come up with another idea that seems weirder or your weirdest ideas would make the others seem mundane by comparison, warranting their continual replacement. This continual cycling of templates is not a suitable base.

2. Aesthetic Paralellisms are nice to have:
There is one fiendish template and one celestial template. I understand the traditional claim that "The Far Realms are infinite and should have randomly generated abilities". However, by that logic, fiendish creatures on the abyss and fiendish creatures in baator should have different stats. They don't. The purpose of these templates (and templates in general) is to make a catch-all for everything that fits into a certain category. There is no reason to have more than one pseudonatural template.

3. Power creep:
Although the current pseudonatural creature is a bit ho-hum, it is quite balanced. Furthermore, it is similar parallelism to that mentioned above that leads to bland abilities such as damage reduction and energy resistance. This thing was made to be a direct parallel of the fiendish and celestial templates, switching resistances, gaining true strike instead of smite. The thing is, this thing is balanced, or slightly superior to, the fiendish and celestial templates, making them a suitable substitute when dealing with summon monster spells.
If we want to keep going with the suggested method of change, we will be in a doubly bad situation. First of all, as the version of the pseudonatural templates we're likely to end up creating will be more powerful, it may prove to be a bit disruptive to the game in the same manner that greenbound summoning can be disruptive. Secondly, even if we call upon these messed up creatures, we wouldn't have a say in how it is messed up, instead basing the template on the roll of a d% dice. Therefore, it is plausible that every spell and summoning would either prove disruptive or worthless, which is not a good balance mechanism.

My attempt at a template:
This is my attempt at a pseudonatural template. I am trying to make it just as viable for long-term incursions as for the 1 round/level. As no given attack form will cover all possibilities, I will simply give it a vague special attack. Lastly, as it is impossible to catch the raw chaos of a pseudonatural creature (as I have stated above), I will capitalize upon its not belonging in the material plane. Lastly, I'll try to make it a bit more powerful (but only a bit) to help compensate the alienists.

Creating a Pseudonatural Creature:
"Pseudonatural" is an acquired template that can be added to any living creature.
A pseudonatural creature uses all the base creature's statistics and abilities except as noted here. Even though the creature's type changes, do not recalculate Hit Dice, base attack bonus, or skill points
Size and Type: The creature's type changes to outsider. Size is unchanged.
Special Attacks: A pseudonatural creature retains all the special attacks of the base creature and also gains the following attacks.
Abberant Assault (Su): As a full-round, a pseudonatural creature may use their alien essence to warp the universe to their advantage. This ability imitates the effect of any 1st level spell from the cleric list or wizard/sorcerer list with a casting time of one standard action or less. For all purposes, the caster level equals the pseudonatural creature's HD. In addition, the use of this ability momentarily reveals a form more fitting to the pseudonatural creature's alien nature. Upon using this ability, other creatures receive a -2 morale penalty on their attack rolls against the pseudonatural creature for 1 round. This ability may only be used once per encounter and only while in an encounter.
Unnatural attack: As a full-round action, a pseudonatural creature may make a melee touch attack or automatically target a foe within 20 feet. The target of the mystery either takes 1 point of ability damage/4 levels to an ability score of the pseudonatural creature's choice, is knocked prone, is renderered sickened or shaken for 1d4 rounds, or is confused (as the spell) for 1 round. If the pseudonatural creature did not make an attack against its foe, the target may attempt a fortitude save (DC 10 + 1/2 HD) to negate the effect. Different uses of this ability may be used with each attempt. Once a creature has been hit by this ability or fails their saving throw, they are immune to this ability for 24 hours.
Special Qualities: A pseudonatural creature retains all the special qualities of the base creature and also gains thte following special qualities.
Alien Nature: Pseudonatural creatures defy most forms of classification, even if they resemble familiar creatures. For effects that target creatures of a specific race, type, or subtype, there is a 50% chance that it fails to affect the pseudonatural creature.
Impossible Geometry: Although pseudonatural creatures can exist in the cosmology, they do so through geometry that makes little or no sense. All attacks made against a pseudonatural creature have a 20% miss chance. Furthermore, pseudonatural creatures cannot be flanked and have a 50% chance to negate extra damage from sneak attack or critical hits.
Material Vulnerability: pseudonatural creatures and the material plane around them are in constant struggle with each other. The pseudonatural creature is fatigued for as long as they remain and suffer the penalties of starvation even if they eat.
Abilities: Same as base creature, but Intelligence is at least 3
Environment: Any land or underground.
CR: +1

[Hectonkhyres]

That I like... immensely. It sacrifices the creature's bulletproof vest for one hell of a set of trumph cards. Chance of evasion, chance of fortification, chance of resisting type-specific effects. The ability to simulate any first level spell from the cleric's list or wizzer/sorc's list is the kicker for me.

You have invented a critter that, while never a sure bet in a fight, is something that can ruin anyone's day with the right roll of the dice. Rogues find that they have no damn clue where to stab the damn thing, the warrior just missed because the damn thing dodged through the wall and is now under the effects of the spell Grease now that the thing vomited something neon pink on him, and in general madness reigns. Summon fifty million psudonatural dire rats and Cthulhu personally appears to both collect your autograph and eat you for making him look bad.

In reference to your mention of the fiendish template you mention in point number two, I already try to give abyssal and infernal creatures a little bit of distinction. I tend to drop secondary templates, such as Corrupted or Poisonous or any number of others, on top of the traditional fiendish template depending on the nature of their surroundings. I have also thrown unpredictable things like a creature's ability to use Heat Metal or Ray of Rust as a SLA if it was dancing around Archeron. Not relyably... just something for players to watch out for.

[Stycotl]

very nice, realms of chaos. simple. looks good. i do still like the idea of variations. not necesarily a different template, bit possibilities within the same template. but that is a very elegant (interesting word choice for current topic) pseudonatural creature.

[The Demented One]

Someone, I'm wanting to say The Glyphstone, made a very neat system for creating unique Far Realms creatures by rolling dice. Might have to tweak it a little to get them on the same power as a pseudonatural creature, but worth taking a look at, perhaps?

[TheEscapist]

I play a summoner 3/cleric 3/mystic theurge 2/alienist 1 in one of my campaigns, and while looking at the alienist class I've only ever had one problem with the pseudonatural template - the ridiculous tentacle form ability. Imparting a -1 to hit them is a ridiculous waste of an ability. I was thinking something like nauseating viewers when it takes its tentacle form if they fail a saving throw? Nausea is an oft-underestimated status effect.

I've always been a fan of the true strike ability, though, cause it's nice surrounding an enemy with pseudoscorpions and having them repeatedly sting their target with true striking tails. The tentacle form ability shouldn't be bumped up too much, though, because you need to keep the templat's CR adjustment at +1 so it doesn't through the summon monster spells out of alignment.

You can do what you want with the DR and energy immunities, I could take or leave 'em.

[Realms of Chaos]

There was one ability that I did not place in my template, one ability that really fits the desire for many different attack forms. Feel free to substitute this for abberant assault (or true strike, if you are using the complete arcane version)

Unnatural attack: As a full-round action, a pseudonatural creature may make a melee touch attack or automatically target a foe within 20 feet. The target of the mystery either takes 1 point of ability damage/4 levels to an ability score of the pseudonatural creature's choice, is knocked prone, is renderered sickened or shaken for 1d4 rounds, or is confused (as the spell) for 1 round. If the pseudonatural creature did not make an attack against its foe, the target may attempt a fortitude save (DC 10 + 1/2 HD) to negate the effect. Different uses of this ability may be used with each attempt. Once a creature has been hit by this ability or fails their saving throw, they are immune to this ability for 24 hours.

There, behold an attack form that is completely and utterly ambiguous in its description. Now is is just as possible to say that the pseudonatural creature opened a portal to the far realms in your brain as it is to say that their gaze drove you temporarily insane. Now that that's covered, I think I can rest easy.

[Primal Fury]

rather than replacing the ability, perhaps having both aberrant assualt and unnatural attack? it seems to me the unnatural attack is stricktly combat orientented, whereas aberrant assualt has more possibilities.

EDIT: Also, when you say the victim is immune to the unnatural attack for 24 hours, do you mean the ability as a whole, or just to the specific effect?

[Realms of Chaos]

Entire ability.

Also, you're right. I'll throw Unnatural attack into my template right now.

[Primal Fury]

woo hoo! i made a difference! and also, what is the caster level for spells used by "Abberant Assault"? and is the spell chosen constant? or changeable? i ask this for those DMs who wish to have actual encounters with these, and for those players out there who actually want to appply this to their character. (you know who you are)

and! i would like to propose something, a new set of feats to go along with the new alienist class, so far i've only got one:

Alien Cohort [Leadership]
Prerequisites: Leadership, (???)
You gain a cohort with the Pseudonatural Template.

Thoughts? I figure if you actually get penalties for working with creatures that dont have the template, then you better start working with... things who do. If this one gets good feedback, i might try and come up with some metamagic feats as well

Peace:smallbiggrin:

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Here's an attempt at a psudonatural template:

Size and Type Size unchanged. Type changed to Outsider.

Special Attacks Horrid Form, Tentacle, Ooze

Special Qualities Alien Physiology, SR 10+HD, Alien Mind

Horrid Form(Su) When a Psudonatural creature is seen in it's psudonatural form for the first time, all witnesses must make a Will save (DC based on HD) or go insane. Treat as Confusion effect, except instead of making a hostile action, the afflicted individual simply stands helpless, gibbering incoherantly. This is a mind-affecting ability.

DC for save:

1-10 HD: DC 15+ Cha Mod
11-15: DC 16 + Cha Mod
Every 5 HD : +1 DC

Tentacle The Psudonatural creature grows one tentacle per 5 HD (round down, minimum one). The tentacle is considered to be a reach weapon which does not have a 'blind spot'. It does as much damage as a normal claw attack for the base creature. These tentacles can also be used to make a grapple, trip, or disarm attempt.

Ooze The tentacles secrete a sticky ooze, granting them a +4 to all Grapple checks.

Alien Physiology Psudonatural creatures are not... normal. They are immune to sneak attacks and critical hits by virtue of not having any discernable anatomy. Furthermore, their alien metabolism grants them immunity to all diseases and poisons, including supernatural ones.

Alien Mind It's not that Psudonatural creatures don't have a mind, it's just that their concept of thought process is so far removed from ours that they are incapable of comprehending. This gives them effective immunity to all mind-affecting abilities.

CR: +2

[Hectonkhyres]

Alien Cohort [Leadership]
Prerequisites: Leadership, (???)
You gain a cohort with the Pseudonatural Template.
Official Psudonatural Creature template or Realms of Chaos's new take on the subject? It would work fine on the CA version... but it would be either worthless or brokenly awesome due to things like Material Vulnerability and Aberrant Assault.

If the first doesn't make the poor thing starve to death, the second will make it an infinite heal-canon and buffmonster. Bad Ju-Ju.

[Primal Fury]

RoC's suppa awsome kick-ass version of course... i think he made these abilities thinking that they would only be summoned, but its not impossible to fix that, make the Aberrant Assualt usable a few times a day for the cohort. perhaps to represent their diminished strength in this world as opposed to the summoned creatures who are only here for a short amount of time. and instead of Material Vulnerability, how about Material Instability? that way, instead of being fatigued all the time, there would just be a % chance of them phasing out of this reality, only to come back few rounds later.

and i think i've got another feat idea, how about summoning psuedo-versions of other creatures on the summoning list too? instead of just animals. or is there already something like that? i dont have the book on hand, so i cant be too sure. and i cant wait to start on the alien metamagic!:smallbiggrin:

EDIT: Also, a question for you Realms of Chaos... Why is the psuedonatural template classified as an acquired template???

[Primal Fury]

sorry bout the double post... there's something wrong with our internet connection

[Realms of Chaos]

Regarding Material Vulnerability: I created this ability as the sheer wrongness of the far realms simply does not exist anywhere in the multiverse. The fatigue and starvation result from the universe trying to push it back out. As such, mass incursions, if such an event occurs, is relatively short lived, rarely lasting over 24 hours. However, this does not mean that alienists and koarti haven't found a way around this. The same resin crafted by koarti works to aleviate the material vulnerability (remember that every single pseudonatural creature possesses the intelligence to wear armor if it has been crafted for them). In fact, for your conveniance, let me stat out such armor right now.

Resin Armor
Cost: 1,000 gp
Armor Bonus: +2
Maximum Dex Bonus: +6
Armor Check Penalty: -2
Arcane Spell Chance Failure: 20%
Speed: Unchanged
Weight: 10 lbs.

Around the creature appears to be a thin layer of black hide. As the creature moves, the hide slithers almost organically.

Resin armor causes any pseudonatural creature to lose their material vulnerability ability for as long as it is worn. In addition, the armor is fluid in shape, adjusting to the contours of any pseudonatural creature of the proper size.

as with most armor, the price above is for a medium-sized pseudonatural creature. Making such armor for smaller or larger creatures costs less or more as normal.

Also, it is not too much of a stretch that a an alien cohort would simply lose its material vulnerability by tethering its essence to you (something to consider adding to the feat).

As for abberant assault and unnatural attack, I'll say this much. The mechanics behind each were crafted so that the pseudonatural creature is useful at the beginning of each encounter. In this way, they are useful (but not broken) whether you call them for a couple of rounds or somehow get such a cohort.

Primal Fury: if you would please reread abberant assault, you would see that it is usable 1/encounter, not 1/day. This is the most balanced version. If we said, for instance, 3/day, all three uses could be used in a single encounter, making short-term summons overpowered.

Hectonkhyres: I don't know what you think makes this a perpetu-buff. Mind you, if it uses long-duration buffs and you have many encounters, it can keep multiple buffs on you. However, your party wizard and cleric are so much more useful, get more than one spell/encounter, and can cast spells above first level. As far as its healing prowess goes, it is about as good a healer as a 1st level crusader (tome of battle) if it chooses to be. Not too overpowered.

P.S.: To all who aren't aware, the pseudonatural template is an acquired template. It is listed as such in Complete Arcana and again in Lords of Madness, confirming that such has yet to change. However, this makes complete and utter sense. A pseudonatural hippogriff looks nothing removely like a hippogriff until it enters the multiverse. As such, instead of a hippogriff getting chaotic features, it is actually chaos getting hippogriff features.

Edit: Unfortunately, by that same logic, pseudonatural creatures should honestly be the least likely thing that players would ever see if they travel to the far realm (unless their very pressence makes pseudonatural ripples of their own race).

[Hectonkhyres]

RoC: Per encounter. Which generally translates as the handful of minutes it would normally take for one side of a battle to beat the crap out of the other and then regain its breath and composure. WotC usually figures about five minutes for such abilities to refresh unless otherwise stated.

While perfectly balanced as a summon, the ability to use a low level heal (cure light wounds) or, to a lesser extent, buff (shield, mage armor) comes in way too handy when supplied by an everpresent cohort who doesn't have to worry about spellslots. Or even the Alienist's familiar since the damned thing is going to acquire the psudonatural template after fifth level.

The good news is that you just gave us the world's first legitimate reason for a spellcaster to tote around a familiar.

[Primal Fury]

oh! i forgot about the familiar AND the resin armor. though the once per encounter thing does make since now that i think about it. and since the familiar is able stay in the material realm (if said alienist even HAS a familiar), why not the cohort too?

when it comes to how to get the cohort, i think that summoning a psuedonatural thing and binding it to yourself makes sense, possibly by way of an expensive and time-consuming ritual? OR summoning a pseudonatural thing and fusing it with an earthly creature, binding it to THAT things essence and thus ALSO explaining why it is not subject to Material Vulnerability, which way would be best?

[Realms of Chaos]

There. I edited the ability so that you couldn't possibly call it overpowered. Now, abberant assault may only be used in encounters.

As the average is 3.33 encounters per day, that is how many spells you get.

Call that overpowered.

I DARE YOU! MUWAHAHAHAHAHAHa!!!

[Primal Fury]

so, while there seems to be no activity on the feats or summoning, is everyone happy with the alienists other class abilities?

[Hectonkhyres]

Lets have a look at the Alienist's other abilities then:

Alien Blessing: +1 to any and all saving throws
Metamagic Secret: A free metamagic feat at both third and seventh level.
Mad Certainty: Three extra hit points.
Extra Summoning: One extra spell slot that can only be filled with a Summon Monster spell.
Insane Certainty: Three extra hit points.
Timeless Body: Immune to magical aging.
Alien Transcendence: DR 10/magic, resistance to acid & electricity 10. Become an outsider. Gain a freaky looking (but immensely cool) organ somewhere on your body that does nothing even vaguely useful.


Meh. A one level dip gets you the ability to summon Psudonatural Creatures in all their glory... and allows you to walk away with your social abilities intact. Metamagic Secret (which only balances out the wizard's normal bonus feats) and Extra Summoning are nice... but if the wizzer needs 3-6 hit points that late in the game he is probably already dead. Timeless Body is rather meh and Alien Transcendence (while damn handy) comes rather late in the game.

Going all the way through the prestige class is mostly for those interested in it for flavor and roleplaying purposes. Who needs to be able to talk to people when you can just feed them to Cthulhu? Tentacle monsters make everyone more cooperative.

All the good stuff is jammed at the very beginning and the very end. But its not as if this is exactly rare among the seething masses of prcs that WotC insisted on extruding through every pore. Its neither craptastic, brokenly awesome, or brokenly broken. In other words, its fine.

There. I edited the ability so that you couldn't possibly call it overpowered. Now, abberant assault may only be used in encounters.

As the average is 3.33 encounters per day, that is how many spells you get.

Call that overpowered.

I DARE YOU! MUWAHAHAHAHAHAHa!!!
...
This is what happens when you drink black, cuban-style coffee. Made from the ground beans of a bush that can only be found Growing in the howling depths of pandemonium. With sugar processed from the bones of kender vampires.

[The_Snark]

Somebody had mentioned Glyphstone's creation earlier, and here it is: Far Beasts (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10719).

It's not useful for the alienist class, but seeing as we're discussing the things that dwell outside reality, I thought I'd link it in any case. You can never have too many Things.

[Primal Fury]

Far Beasts huh? i like it. in fact i think this, coupled with a new feat tree, may be a way to elevate the alienists status from "meh" to "damn". instead of summoning pseudonatural versions of other creatures, like devils and angels, why not create some entirely new monstrosities? it fits the archetype quite well, allowing people to create whatever they can think of at the time, instead of applying an incredibly vauge (but still totally awsome) template to some already powerful creatures.

suppose i better start with the root feat:

Unearthly Spellcasting:
Req: Spell Thematics
Though your spells are already tempered with individuality, it gets to a point where people dont even think they're spells anymore.
Benefits: Your spells take on an alien quality. The spells you cast that are on your "Spell Thematics" list have any DC associated with them increased by +1 for every level of the spell. This includes any attempt to dispel or counterspell. Unfortunately, you also take the same penalty to your attempts to counterspell, since your spells have become so unlike others.

I'm thinking of applying this to all other spells as well (to a lesser extent of course)

Thoughts and criticisms would be loved!:smallbiggrin:

[Realms of Chaos]

This is what happens when you drink black, cuban-style coffee. Made from the ground beans of a bush that can only be found Growing in the howling depths of pandemonium. With sugar processed from the bones of kender vampires.

My drink of choice. :smallbiggrin:

As for changes to the alienist, the changes I suggest seem simple and intuitive (at least, to me).

Mad Certainty (Ex): At 4th level, an alienist's mad certainty in the poewr of entities beyond the reacho of normal space and time lend her an unnatural fortitude, granting her 1 hit point/character level. However, this development of formulae warps the alienist's mind in relation to certain natural creatures. The alienist selects two creature types (they need not select subtypes if selecting humanoid or outsider). The Alientist takes a -2 penalty on Bluff, Diplomacy, and Sense Motive checks when using these skills against such creatures. In addition, whenever such a creature approaches within 10 feet of the her, the alienist must make a will save (DC 15 + 1/2 creature's HD) or become shaken for as long as they remain within 10 feet + 1d4 rounds. Once the Alienist has made such a saving throw against a creature, that creature does not risk setting off the alienist again for 24 hours, whether or not they succeeded on their saving throw.

Extra Summoning (Ex): At 6th level, an alienist expands their ability to summon alien creatures. She gains one bonus spell slot of each spell level from 1st to 6th, each of which may only be used for a summon monster spell. With each additional class level, you gain a bonus spell slot of the next highest spell level (up to the maximum level that you are able to cast).

Insane Certainty (Ex): At 8th level, an alienist's mad certainty crystallizes into a truly chilling mania. She gains an additional 1 hit point/character level. However, the alienist must slect two additional creature types to react adversely towards, as described in mad certainty.

Alien Transcendance (Su): A 10th level alienist, becaus of long association with alien entities and intense study of insane secrets, transcends her mortal form and becomes an alien creature. She gains the pseudonatural template.
In addition, the alienist has mastered the art of summoning creatures from beyond the planes into our worlds. When casting a summon monster spell, she may select any abberation whose CR is equal to or less than the spell level to be summoned. Any such abberation summoned is granted the pseudonatural template. In addition, summon monster spells now last for 1 minute/level.

I tried to base mad certainty and insane certainty more strongly after the tome and blood version, in which they got phobias instead of bad social skills. I also granted a total of 2 hit points/character level, which increases their average from 2.5 to 4.5, about average for a cleric.

As far as extra summoning, I never saw how granting a single spell slot would do much of anything. I granted one spell slot per spell level instead. Take note that a 10th level alienist does gain a bonus 10th level spell as soon as they become epic and take the improved spell capacity feat.

I'm sorry that I took away the alienist's strange appendage. Considering that they now possess the pseudonatural template, which doesn't look right in the first place, I don't think it is too much of a deal. However, I also gave the alienist the ability to summon something other than large pseudonatural vermin and gave their summon monster spells enough duration for the alienist to really become a threat.

[Primal Fury]

about mad certainty, is the fear effect constant? what i mean is, would they have to save again after those 1d4 rounds ended? and if they succeed on their save, do they have to make another one the next round?

Edit: and i'm not sure i like the summoning aspect of alien trancedanse... it seems that it'll be pretty useless by the time they actually reach that level if they're only limited to summoning abberations with a maximum CR of 9.

[Realms of Chaos]

As for mad certainty, ('ll simply have you remain shakened for as long as the creature remains in range + 1d4 rounds. Also, I'll make a successful save against a creature make you immune agains them for 24 hours.

The thing about the alienist is that summoning pseudonatural creatures is really all that they have going for them, no matter how you look at it. However, due to the mechanics of the summon alien ability, an alienist using Summon Monster IX can only summon a Pseudonatural roc, a pseudonatural dire shark, a pseudonatural gargantuan monstrous scorpion, and a pseudonatural colossal monstrous spider. Note that none of these options actually fit in the average dungeon room. I simply expanded these options and effectively multiplied the spell's duration by 10.
You apparently think that my wording of Alien Transcendance limits them in some way. On the contrary, it allows them to function in a conceivably effective manner. If you prefered the original ability, simply granting you a mutation to grant you a bonus on intimidate checks and on other charisma checks with alienists, nothing is stopping you. I feel that my rewrite, however, adds some real potency.

[Primal Fury]

well... could you explain the potency to me a bit?
i mean, i'd just like to know what you mean by "concievably effective"

[Hectonkhyres]

Well, as newly written, Alien Transcendence allows you to summon anything you could normally summon... and keep it for many, many minutes. Minutes as opposed to rounds. Wow.

The cost is that you have to spend a good portion of your time in a special resin-based enclosure, in resin armor (always a sucky choice due to arcane spell failure), or artificially maintained via spells. Doable and worthwhile, but a serious and two-sided choice for a player to make.

The truely awesome part is that you aren't just worshipping Cthulhu, you are Cthulhu. You get to be a shifting, non-euclidean thing of nightmares and otherworldly horror.

Makes you wonder what epic levels of Alienist would be if cooked up. Scary is all that I can say.

[Realms of Chaos]

Alien Transcendance has 3 points for and 1 point against, as follows:

For:
1. Pseudonatural template, which is generally a good thing to have.
2. You get more selection in what you can summon via summon monster spells, making the alienist a more interesting antagonist or a more versatile protagonist.
3. You get longer duration with summon monster spells, meaning that you can actually carry a decent-sized army of weak pseudonatural creatures around, something that alienists in the past have been unable to accomplish.

Against:
1. Material Vulnerability. As mentioned, you have to be very careful and plan for your ascension ahead of time.

When I say "conceivably effective", I mean that the alienist becomes more viable as a summoner of creatures from beyond the stars or as a slightly mad PC rather than just becoming some bullet-proof cult leader when you reach 10th level.
My alien transcendence ability (IMO) helps distinguish the alienest from the diffusely flavored and slightly mad wizard that it otherwise appears to be.

[Hectonkhyres]

I am going to have to sit down with the Stronghold Builder's Guidebook tonight and start plotting out a resin-sheathed skykeep filled with every reality-bending twist I can think of. This thread has my mind spinning with possibilities.

[Primal Fury]

Makes you wonder what epic levels of Alienist would be if cooked up. Scary is all that I can say.

sounds like we've got some more work ahead of us. :smallbiggrin:

and RoC, i LOVE that particular aspect of alien transendance, i really do, but, what i want to know is: why limit the summoning to CR 9? why not higher? or am i misreading it?

and i suppose i'll put my feats in a new thread

[Realms of Chaos]

I limit it to CR 9 as the basic trend with summon monster spells (although there may be exceptions and I may be wrong) is that you can summon creatures with CR no higher than the spell level.

[Primal Fury]

really??? huh... i didnt know that, and i think i want to check that out, i think that may be slightly incorrect...

[nobodylovesyou4]

okay, i have a request for this thread: could someone compile the revised alienist (rename if you have to, ugh) into a ten-level progression table, and also post the stats for the revised pseudonatural template in one post? thanks in advance.

[Realms of Chaos]

As none of the ability names of the alienist have been changed (only what they can do), the original table of advancement should suffice (and if you don't possess complete arcane, posting up the progression table may be pushing our luck, even if we change the name).

That said, my version of the pseudonatural template is contained within a single post, which seems to meet your perimeters. If you wanted everyone's pseudonatural templates in one post, however, that may take a bit of doing.

[nobodylovesyou4]

well, i noticed that the changes to the alienist began at 4th level. does that mean everything before it is the same?

[Realms of Chaos]

That's correct.

[nobodylovesyou4]

alright, thanks. its funny you posted all this when you did, because i JUST made a character going into alienist. fittingly enough, his name is howard phillips.

[Primal Fury]

okay, you seem to be right about the CR limit Realms of Chaos, but thats not the maximum, the highest i can see is a CR of 12 used by a Summon Monster IX spell.

EDIT: ah! i see you changed Alien Trans. to include pseudonatural aberrations. well... good luck describing THAT:smalltongue:

[Realms of Chaos]

EDIT: ah! i see you changed Alien Trans. to include pseudonatural aberrations. well... good luck describing THAT:smalltongue:

I'll try.

To players: imagine an unnatural, alien, and utterly incomprehensible creature...that was thrown in a blender and lived.

Also, even though the CRs do pass the maximum I set, I think I'll keep the limitation around to keep things simple.

[Konig]

Just for pure fluff/flavor, I'd add a feature like...

Unnatural Air - Things in the Alienist's vicinity are disturbed and altered. At it's most basic state, objects move from where they should be placed, or are different than they were remembered. Animals act in a manner totally unbefitting to them - carnivorous rabbits, suicidal chickens, groups of wolves slinking up to a human settlement and wandering passively about until they are slaughtered or they starve. People have strange dreams, dream of memories belonging to other people, or entire groups have the same dream.

After an Alienist has settled in an area for more than a month, the changes gradually become more severe. The geography changes subtly when nobody is looking, doors lead to the wrong places for a few hours before reverting to normal, people wake up speaking a different language, or wake up in the wrong beds. A cow might birth an offspring which has a head and two forelegs at either end.

These changes gradually build up to a peak over two months. After that, the effect simply spreads several feet with each passing week. The intensity and acceleration of these effects increases with each level the character has in Alienist. Should the Alienist leave or travel, these effects will not go beyond minor events. After the Alienist leaves, the events dissipate slowly - fading entirely after one month has passed for each week the alienist was in the region.

These changes serve to annoy, upset and alarm. Should the alienist be discreet, people in their general region will be pushed to the point that they seek answers. If the alienist is less discreet, they may be targeted in an attempt to stop the strange events, or they may be able to use the fear and awe to manipulate the people.

[Primal Fury]

I'll try.

To players: imagine an unnatural, alien, and utterly incomprehensible creature...that was thrown in a blender and lived.

HA! awsome.


Also, even though the CRs do pass the maximum I set, I think I'll keep the limitation around to keep things simple.

are you SURE you want to do that? you would take a bit of power away from the spell...
although... i do see how that makes sense, seeing as how no one seems to know exactly HOW to determine that increase in CR... hm...


and to Konig: i love it, and thats all there is to say

Edit: and i think that should be part of Alien Trans. you know, to really make the change to an otherworldly creature feel... complete

[Realms of Chaos]

Konig. Although I love your ability (to all readers, just tack it on to 1st level), I have a small problem with it. If the peak of abilities at level 1 is doors leading to wrong places and geography changes, level 10 changes would probably act like a messed up wish. Without any guidelines to go by level by level, this ability requires alot of DM thinking and planning. To set definite limitations, I will try to rewrite it.

Unnatural Air - Things in the Alienist's vicinity are disturbed and altered. In a one-mile radius, strange events occur. In the start, only one event/level occurs every six hours and the events are weak. After spending at least a month in the same area, however, this distorting effect reaches its peak, capable of producing regular distortions at a rate of one per hour/level and greater distortions at a rate of one per six hours/level.
At 1st level, it is objects that are effected. At it's most basic state, objects move from where they should be placed, or are different than they were remembered. At the peak of this ability, strange and alien items start appearing in the most unlikely of places, usually disappearing a few hours or days later.
At 3rd level, the influence extends to inanimate plants. At its most basic state, their leaves and trunks may be partially changed in color or composition (although the plant still lives). In addition, their fruits may look strange, either differing in size, color, shape, shape or number/location of seeds. At the peak of this ability, plants can grow to enormous sizes or wither away to nothing in a matter of seconds. In addition, plants may grow into wholly unnatural shapes, even displaying faces or other humanoid appendages.
At 5rd level, the influence extends to animals. At its most basic state, animals act in a manner totally unbefitting to them - carnivorous rabbits, suicidal chickens, groups of wolves slinking up to a human settlement and wandering passively about until they are slaughtered or they starve. At the peak of this ability, animals may show various bodily mutations, either changing the color of their coat, growing or losing limbs, or spontaneously giving birth to animals of other species.
At 7th level, the influence spreads to all sentient beings. At its most basic state, people have strange dreams, dream of memories belonging to other people, or entire groups have the same dream. At the peak of this ability, people may wake speaking a different language, or simply waking up in the wrong beds. Furthermore, intelligent beings may have a hard time falling asleep or find themselves refreshed upon awakening as if they had slept for a week.
At 9th level, the influence affects the senses of all intelligent beings. At its most basic state, all such beings feel a strong sense of foreboding. In addition the sensations of such creatures begin to mix. They may smell colors, hear tastes, or even taste tactile sensations. At the peak of this ability, people start experiencing sounds, tastes, and smells with no source.

Of course, perhaps the easier way to modify this ability is to simply not have it progress with level. :smallbiggrin:

[Konig]

At the peak of this ability, strange and alien items start appearing in the most unlikely of places, only to disappear a few hours or days later.

Fun, but don't always make them disappear. Imagine...
The Si (inspired by Ancient Domains of Mystery) - a strange and functionally useless item, more or less a lump of engraved metal, it doubles in quantity every few days, never when anyone is able to see it. When it reaches critical mass, they all cease to be with a thunderclap.
A loop of stone that is about one and a half feet across. People can reach in and retrieve items, leading one to believe it's a variation on a bag of holding. Items retrieved range from the mundane to the valuable. After it is used (1d100) times, it snaps shut around the arm of the person using it, cutting through flesh and tightening around the bone. Short of removing the limb at the shoulder, the loop-turned-ring is unable to be removed. Attempts to regenerate the lost limb instead create oozelike pseudonatural growths.
A colossal obelisk with runes set into the surface. The shadow of the obelisk does not match light sources, and as it's shadow moves, things fall through. When the obelisk disappears, the things reappear, all packed into a single house or room.


In addition, their fruits may look strange, either differing in size, color, shape, shape or number/location of seeds. At the peak of this ability, plants can grow to enormous sizes or wither away to nothing in a matter of seconds.

A bit heavy handed, but it works. More disturbing are the ideas of faces appearing on plant life - some serene, some screaming, ranging from the human to the very-not-human. Other ideas include expanses of grass growing brown and rotting, with the living grass forming a pattern or diagram. A single fruit or onion might grow to huge size before being split open - inside are all the locals that recently disappeared, and one person who didn't.


The influence extends to animals. At the peak of this ability, animals may show various bodily mutations, either changing the color of their coat, growing or losing limbs, or spontaneously giving birth to animals of other species.

Love the idea of spontaneous birth of other animals. It might include humans... picture the mayor's wife giving birth to a litter of puppies. :smallbiggrin:


Furthermore, intelligent beings may simply not be able to sleep at all or may prove entirely too hard to wake up.

Remember, we don't want there to be undue penalties to party members of the alienist, we just want flavor.

I'd reword this to include, say, "People might be unable to sleep, but feel more alert and refreshed than if they had slept for a week."


At its most basic state, all such beings feel a strong sense of foreboding. In addition, people may experience sounds, smells, or tastes that possess no origin. At the peak of this ability, people may experience actual tactile sensations, as if being tapped or slapped. In addition, visual figments may appear, although none last longer than a minute.

Dunno about these. It's more like a haunting than something from the far realms. Consider...
Someone might be struck with synthasesia (sp?) - a malady where someone 'sees' sound, 'hears' smells or perhaps 'tastes' things instead of touching them. There's no mechanical benefit or penalty, but there's great fun to be had with lines like, "That cake is delicious... soft like rose petals"
A person's senses might become supernaturally effective, such as being able to hear things for miles in every direction. The same person experiences a realization that they're sensing something really unfitting... a person with supernatural hearing might hear a faint, colossal heartbeat. A person with supernatural sense of sight might see 'through' shadows, where a single eye is constantly watching them.
A person or animal manifests another sense beyond the traditional six. For a few weeks, said individual has 3 ranks per class level in a [strain flex] sensory skill with a (wis). This skill is used alongside spot or listen, and is especially useful for sensing portals, outsiders and pseudonatural effects. When the sense fades away, the individual feels strangely incomplete.


At 6th level, the influence spreads to the lay of the land. At its most basic state, hills may raise or lower in height, landmarks may subtlely move about, and buildings may open up onto different streets. At the peak of this ability, entire streets may change course, buildings may suddenly end up on the other end of the city, and hills may move so that the sun both rises and sets over them.

Pretty out there at this point. Consider a door that moves places, or an entire city being flipped left-to-right like a mirror image.


At 7th level, [...] 9th level [...]

I'd really stop it before it got too out there. The basic concept is that the alienist opened the way to things that were better left untouched. At worst, it should be definitely noticeable, but not hamper an entire city's day to day life.


Of course, perhaps the easier way to modify this ability is to simply not have it progress with level. :smallbiggrin:

That works. Or consider that with the far realms, rules don't really apply, so it's up to DM fiat & roleplaying.

Just leave it open to creativity and just set ground rules that a DM shouldn't punish the player or a player's teammates, but should make it definitely clear that the alienist's presence has strange influences on his surroundings.

[Primal Fury]

hm... well, if you dont want to go through all ten levels with it, then maybe it should come a little later, say at 4th or 5th level, or maybe have it start at level two, then do every even-numbered level. i think level progression on this ability would be nice, if only to prevent DM's and players from coming up with stuff thats too out-there at the begining of the class. you know, still having the option to effect things however they can imagine, but only certain things as they grow in power. Like objects at lvl 2, plants at lvl 4, animals at lvl 6, sentient beings at lvl 8, and finally all intelligent creatures at lvl 10. i think the other five effects should be reserved for an epic alienist:belkar:

but thats just what I think:smalltongue:

[Realms of Chaos]

I kind of went with your idea, Primal Fury, except that I used odd levels so that it could start at 1st level.

I used konig's synesthesia, plants with faces, and hard to sleep but well rested ideas. Plus, the items created only usually disappear.

As the creator of the ability in the first place, Konig, I should've known you'd have oodles of brilliant ideas (yes, I used the word oodles).

[Primal Fury]

does (or could) the summoning aspect of alien trans. extend to other spells as well? such as Gate or the Planar Ally spells?

[Realms of Chaos]

I don't think it would work. For some reason, pseudonatural chuuls and umberhulks lack the extraplanar subtype, making it seem pretty difficult to get them through a calling spell. Summoning spells may be pushing it as it is, to tell the truth.

[FlyMolo]

I response to what I remember the original purpose of this thread to be, (might not be true), a good replacement for the Psuedonatural template on summoned critters for Alienists is to write up a table. This table should consist of several iterations of the template, plus the half-farspawn template, plus the Arcanomutant template over in Request a homebrew, plus a few more you like. Winged, Half-illithid, a homebrew template that adds tentacle attacks, maybe something to do with oozes. Mostly +1 CR templates, mind. Then, every time the alienist summons something, roll and apply!

[Primal Fury]

I don't think it would work. For some reason, pseudonatural chuuls and umberhulks lack the extraplanar subtype, making it seem pretty difficult to get them through a calling spell. Summoning spells may be pushing it as it is, to tell the truth.

while that may be true, i was actually thinking more along the lines of The Snarks idea about the Far Beasts, which are aberrations, and have the extraplanar subtype.

sadly there will be no Colossal sized, pseudonatural flying aboleths with 40 hit die for me :smallfrown:

Edit: and, just for the record, i think that the alienist apex ability should be to gain the Half-Farspawn template, rather that the pseudonatural template. It just seems more player friendly.
am i right? or am i wrong? i think i'm wrong...

Sidenote: what would peaceful contact with a pseudonatural creature be like anyway???

[Realms of Chaos]

The thing is, I don't think it is wise to provide a template with so large of a level adjustment unless the rest of the class is spent getting close to it (as is the case with the dragon disciple and dread necromancer).

Giving away smaller templates, like the draconic, fiendish, celestial, pseudonatural, dark, or feral templates, however, I am generally okay with as a capstone.

If we wanted to make the equivalent of a dragon disciple, keeping all current and currently suggested abilities, progression of abilities over the levels would look something like this.

1 Familiar Abilities, Summon Alien, Tentacle, Unnatural Air (objects) +2 Str
2 Alien Blessing, +1 natural armor
3 Energy Resistance, Metamagic Secret, Unnatural Air (plants) +2 Con
4 Mad Certainty, Immunity to Poison
5 Pseudonatural Familiar, Unnatural Air (animals), +2 natural armor, +2 Dex
6 Extra Summoning, Tentacle, Spell resistance
7 Metamagic Secret, Blindsight, Unnatural Air (sentient beings), +2 Wis
8 Insane Certainty, +3 natural armor, Damage Reduction
9 Alternate Form, Timeless Body, Unnatural Air (senses) +2 Cha
10 Alien Transcendance

As this is definitely not the paragon of balance, I suggest keeping it we've had it rather than suddenly granting the player +4 level adjustment. Besides, pseudonatural is an acquired template while half-farspawn is inherited. We can easily put in a clause that negates the material vulnerability for the alienist (although, as written, the alienist effectively mimics a koarti when they reach 10th level, which is cool).

[Primal Fury]

ah, too true. well, only tryin to come up with some ideas, thats all.

what about the epic pseudonatural creature template?

[Realms of Chaos]

I just made a new, Far Realms-based base class for those who are interested.

Blasphemous Preacher (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=75528)

This was my attempt to get everything far realms-related into a single class (and let's face it, its easier to fit a slew of abilities into 20 levels than it is into 10).

I think that I've covered everything, from developing into a half-farspawn to warping the world through creation of cerebral blots to insanity to stores of forbidden lore that can crack one's psyche to binding vestiges (beings from beyond existance). Hell, to pay xoriat its dues, you even get a symbiont. :smallbiggrin:

[atriusnight]

Heh, fun stuff all round..two things though.

1. If the 10th level Alienist will need resin armor, give him the kaorti's ability to make the resin.....It should cut down on many folks complaints about that aspect.

2. With summoning quite thoroughly covered in levels 1 through 10, I'd assume that the epic alienist would focus on controlling his warping of reality, slowly gaining the ability to impose his (far realms tainted) vision of the world on others. Creating hoards of mutant animals and groves of grasping trees...that sort of thing........Would it be going beyond the scope of this thread to ask for a delving into this...?