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View Full Version : What does Mindblank beat?



Frosty
2008-02-26, 12:15 PM
Mindblank protects against divinations used against you. True Seeing/See Invisbility are divination spells. Does that mean MB will protect against those spells? If so, to what extent? If I have a miss chance granted by Mirror Image or Blur or Displacement, would MB let me keep my miss chance even against opponents with True Seeing?

Person_Man
2008-02-26, 02:53 PM
From the SRD:


The subject is protected from all devices and spells that detect, influence, or read emotions or thoughts. This spell protects against all mind-affecting spells and effects as well as information gathering by divination spells or effects. Mind blank even foils limited wish, miracle, and wish spells when they are used in such a way as to affect the subject’s mind or to gain information about it. In the case of scrying that scans an area the creature is in, such as arcane eye, the spell works but the creature simply isn’t detected. Scrying attempts that are targeted specifically at the subject do not work at all.


Spells and other effects that are mind affecting are clearly labeled as such.

Everything else depends on your DMs ruling on what constitutes "information gathering."

The context of the spell clearly indicates that its supposed to apply to spells that "affect the subject's mind or to gain information about it." So I really can't imagine a DM who would rationally believe that would involve True Seeing, Displacement, etc. But hey, maybe your DMs drink more heavily then mine.

Douglas
2008-02-26, 03:03 PM
As written, Mind Blank can be interpreted to prevent True Seeing from ignoring your illusions. I think this is a bit of a stretch, however, and the psionic version of the spell has much clearer wording that definitely does not block such things. Psionic Mind Blank (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/mindBlankPsionic.htm) specifically blocks things with the mind-affecting and scrying descriptors (plus Wish-type effects when used in a similar way), and I think its clearly intended equivalence with the spell is a pretty clear guide as to the designers' intent.

Frosty
2008-02-26, 03:08 PM
I mean for example, it has been argued that Mindblank will prevent someone from using See Invisibility on you because See Invis is a divination spell. This is a logical extension of that.

Personally I see True Seeing as too powerful anyways. It renders the entirety of one school and half of another irrelevant. A higher level spell (Mind Blank) being able to counteract it seems balanced to me.

Dervag
2008-02-26, 03:10 PM
Frankly, I don't think either the text of the spell or the flavor implied by "mind blank" justify that interpretation.

I mean, True Seeing isn't a mind-affecting spell and it isn't trying to gather information about your mind.

Kizara
2008-02-26, 03:16 PM
Frankly, I don't think either the text of the spell or the flavor implied by "mind blank" justify that interpretation.

I mean, True Seeing isn't a mind-affecting spell and it isn't trying to gather information about your mind.

I'm pretty sure scrying isn't ethier, but I'm also pretty sure Mind Blank is supposed to trump that.

Starbuck_II
2008-02-26, 03:18 PM
Frankly, I don't think either the text of the spell or the flavor implied by "mind blank" justify that interpretation.

I mean, True Seeing isn't a mind-affecting spell and it isn't trying to gather information about your mind.

Don't your eyes normally gathering information for your brain?
So I'd wager the argument is True Seeing lets your eyes gather magically better?

But still I'd say nope, Mindblank won't help.

Draz74
2008-02-26, 03:19 PM
Personally I see True Seeing as too powerful anyways. It renders the entirety of one school and half of another irrelevant. A higher level spell (Mind Blank) being able to counteract it seems balanced to me.

I could make a case, just as easily, about how Mind Blank renders one and a half schools irrelevant, and therefore we shouldn't give it any more power than we can help.

Frosty
2008-02-26, 03:39 PM
Agreed. We should get rid of *both* spells.

Raolin_Fenix
2008-02-26, 04:47 PM
True Sight targets the caster (or the subject of his choice), not the person the caster is looking at. It's a beneficial spell, not a harmful one.

The SRD specifies that scrying doesn't work on a Mind-Blanked person when that mind-blanked person is being directly targeted by the spell. A scry on location spell would reveal a mind-blanked person just fine, provided the mind-blanked person is in the scryed location. It's the same thing with True Sight.

I mean, I suppose if the caster decided to cast True Sight on a mind-blanked subject, it wouldn't work, and the subject wouldn't be able to see things as they are. But mind blank is not a sufficient defense against being perceived by a true sight spell.

Jack_Simth
2008-02-26, 05:18 PM
The SRD specifies that scrying doesn't work on a Mind-Blanked person when that mind-blanked person is being directly targeted by the spell. A scry on location spell would reveal a mind-blanked person just fine, provided the mind-blanked person is in the scryed location. It's the same thing with True Sight.

Actually, Scrying on an area including the mind blanked target explicitly does not show the mind blanked target:

The subject is protected from all devices and spells that detect, influence, or read emotions or thoughts. This spell protects against all mind-affecting spells and effects as well as information gathering by divination spells or effects. Mind blank even foils limited wish, miracle, and wish spells when they are used in such a way as to affect the subject’s mind or to gain information about it. In the case of scrying that scans an area the creature is in, such as arcane eye, the spell works but the creature simply isn’t detected. Scrying attempts that are targeted specifically at the subject do not work at all.(Emphasis added)

House interpertation: Mind Blank doesn't stop See Invisibility, True Seeing, and the like; however, the Ranger-4, Sor/Wiz-3, Trickery-3 spell Nondetection can.

Why do I do it that way?

Well, Mind Blank is an absolute spell - it always works against a particular effect, or it never works against a particular effect. Nondetection, on the other hand, requires a caster level check against a caster-level based DC. In other words, it's a roll to succeed or fail - just like an attack roll, just like a saving throw, just like a skill check. It takes it back to a game of dice, rather than a game of measure and countermeasure. With Nondetection, neither is a certain trump card - which, near as I can tell, fits the game better.

Chronos
2008-02-26, 07:45 PM
Now, what about Detect Evil? Detect Evil is cast in the same way as True Seeing: The caster casts it on himself, and thereafter can magically see things about whatever happens to be in his field of view. On the other hand, Detect Evil is telling you something about the creature's mind, while True Seeing does not. So would Detect Evil be blocked or not?