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Duke of URL
2008-02-26, 02:58 PM
GESTALT BUILD CHALLENGE V: INVOCATION VOCATION

I sold my soul for this... NOBODY calls me "underpowered"!

"Gestalt Build Challenge" General Rules

Unless otherwise specified in the specific challenge, the following rules and guidelines are always in effect:
Gestalt builds; 28-point buy; use any WOTC 3.5 product (including Dragon magazine) except where noted (only 3.0 products with an official upgrade to 3.5 are allowed)
Make all builds to ECL 20. However, indicate the minimum ECL the build is playable at (the level at which all LA and/or racial HD, if applicable, are accounted for) and label any level that indicates a "power break" where the build has a significant jump in power level. Provide a detailed description of how the build operates.
Any race with a listed level adjustment is allowed (no racial progressions from Savage Species, please). LA and HD each apply to one side of the gestalt; you may include LA and HD on the same side as each other, or on other sides. No LA buyoff. LA is applied before racial HD, which must be paid off before class levels on that side. Examples: LA X / RHD Y / class Z / ... // class A / ... -OR- LA X / class Y / ... // RHD A / class B / ...
Multiclass at will, but see "voting".
Up to two flaws are allowed, but see "voting".
Templates are allowed, but see "voting".
Voting: Upon the close of entries for each challenge, members of the forum may vote in-thread for the build that best represents the goals set out by the challenge. The voting criteria should consist of: Functionality: How well does the build do in its primary role as specified in the challenge? Weaknesses: Does the build have any glaring weaknesses that can be exploited? Playability: How much of the 1-20 level range can the build be played at and be effective? Creativity: Clever use of races, classes, and/or feats that may not be "typical" choices Cheese: Minimizing the number of cheese points Using flaws (1 point each) Ignoring mutliclassing penalties -- some DMs actually do enforce this in gestalt (1 point each) Single-level dips that would require several pages of justification to RP properly (1 point each) Templates that would require several pages of justification to RP properly (1 point per +1 LA) Attempting to use more than one PrC at any given level (1 point each) Attempting to use "dual progression" PrCs (1,000,000 points each) Over-dependence on items (1 point per indispensable item) Over-dependence on Diplomacy or Use Magic Device skills (1,000,000 points each)

"Invocation Vocation" Specific Rules
Entries may be submitted and edited up until noon PST on Tuesday, Mar. 4, 2008.
Challenge goals: Create a build that has one side completely dedicated to one or more invocation classes. The other side is completely open, however you will need justify your choice as to how it compliments and is complemented by the invoker side. For judging purposes, the build should be an invoker first and foremost.
Unless someone can find an official 3.5 class I've missed, "invoker" specifically means Warlock or Dragonfire Adept.
Please try to follow the format of the example in the next post
Entires received:
"Flame Of Anor" (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3990257&postcount=5)
(Unnamed, Dragon Dragonfire Adept) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3991212&postcount=9)
"Zargyl" (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3993426&postcount=19)
"Nyr" (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3994427&postcount=20)
"The 4-Lock" (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3998385&postcount=30)
"More Cheese Than You Can Shake A Stick At" (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3999885&postcount=32)
"Faustus The Civil Servant" (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4000877&postcount=34)
"Sir Craftalot" (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4001843&postcount=35)
"Zxyxxy't the Unpronounceable" (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4002289&postcount=37)
"Cheesewrought Wraith" (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4009669&postcount=42)
"Glaive Fist" (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4010893&postcount=44) <== Winner!
"Madame Outvoker" (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4018563&postcount=45)
"Feel the Power" (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4023945&postcount=46)




Upcoming Challenges
Double Dippers -- double arcane, double divine, or double psionic progressions
Home On The Range(d) -- those who attack from afar
Vulnerable Villains -- BBEGs with flair but an exploitable (if not necessarily obvious) weakness
Riders On The Storm -- combatants who focus on using mounts
Magnificent Monsters -- only high LA and racial HD creatures allowed
Skill-Monkey Business -- support specialists
In-core-eligible -- builds that don't use "core" races, classes, or feats
more to come... (I hope. Feel free to suggest some!)


Previous Challenges
Melee Masters (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3873051)
Great Gishes (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=71548)
The Urge To Theurge (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=72444)
Army Of One (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=73021)

Duke of URL
2008-02-26, 03:00 PM
Name:
Build:
Starting Ability Scores: STR x, DEX x, CON x, INT x, WIS x, CHA x
Cheese Points:
Minimum Playable Level:
Power Break:



Offense

Defense

Weaknesses

Kurald Galain
2008-02-26, 04:50 PM
Define "invocation" classes, please? Do you mean warlocks? Or invokers? Or anything blasty? Or what?

Draz74
2008-02-26, 05:20 PM
Previews in earlier Gestalt Challenge threads clarified this: Warlocks and Dragonfire Adepts.

"Invokers" don't exist in 3e. 2e Invokers are now called Evokers. So it's not really so ambiguous.

Kurald Galain
2008-02-26, 07:53 PM
Flame of Anor - You Shall Not Pass!

What better way to model a Wielder of the Secret Fire than to combine a sneaky rogue with a hellfire warlock? While slightly eviler than Gandalf was, this flame is more than capable of kicking a balrog's ass. Assuming you own enough d6's, that is.

If he needs a profession, apart from not being a dwarf, the Flame would make an awesome miner. He is capable of tunnelling through unworked stone (hardness 8, 900 hp per 10 foot square) at a rate of 50 foot per minute - and that's assuming you can't sneak attack a stone wall even with golemstrike :smallamused: I couldn't find hit point ratings for earth or clay to calculate it, but I suspect he would have enough burrow speed to outrun a dire mole.

{table]Level|Class A|Class B|EB|SA|Feats and abilities
1|Warlock|Sneak attack fighter|1|1|Mortalbane, Craven
2|Warlock|Sorcerer|1|1
3|Warlock|Rogue|2|2|Point-blank shot, Evasion
4|Warlock|Rogue|2|2
5|Warlock|Anti-undead rogue|3|3
6|Warlock|Spellthief|3|4|Psionic shot, Walk Unseen, Steal spell
7|Warlock|Assassin|4|5
8|Warlock|Assassin|4|5|Uncanny dodge
9|Warlock|Assassin|5|6|Greater psionic shot
10|Hellfire warlock|Binder|5+2|6|Naberius vestige
11|Hellfire warlock|Lurk|6+4|7|Psionic sneak attack
12|Hellfire warlock|Lurk|6+6|9|Empower spell-like ability
13|Legacy champion|Psychic rogue|6+8|10
14|Legacy champion|Assassin|7+10|10
15|Legacy champion|Assassin|7+12|11|Martial training, imp uncanny dodge
16|Legacy champion|Assassin|7+14|11
17|Legacy champion|Assassin|8+16|12|Hide in Plain Sight
18|Legacy champion|Assassin|8+18|14|Assassin's stance
19|Legacy champion|Assassin|8+20|15
20|Legacy champion|Arcane Trickster|9+22|16|Ranged legerdemain
[/table]

The variant fighter from Unearthed Arcana is used, which gains sneak attack rather than bonus feats.
A substitute level for Rogue/3 allows us to sneak attack undead, at half strength, rather than gaining trapfinding.

Items:
Greater Chausible of Fell Power (+2d6 eldritch blast)
Warlock's Scepter (+4d6 eldritch blast 1/day)
Wand of Hunter's Eye (+5d6 sneak attack)
Wand of Cloud of Knives (+29d6 damage per round :smallbiggrin: )
Rogue's vest (+1d6 sneak attack)
Lesser Metamagic Rod of Extend (for sorcerer/assassin spells)
Lesser Metamagic Rod of Quicken (ditto)
Rod of Bodily Restoration (cures con damage)

Feats:
Mortalbane (+2d6 damage 5/day)
Greater psionic shot (+4d6 damage while focused)
Craven (add level to sneak attacks)

Invocations:
(least) Eldritch Glaive, Hammer Blast (overkill against objects), See the Unseen (I'm the sneak around here), Spiderwalk
(lesser) Baneful Blast (+2d6 against chosen creature type), Walk Unseen (free sneak attack), Hellrime Blast (prereq), Eldritch Chain (two attacks for the price of one)
(greater/dark) take your pick, nice ones are Chilling Tentacles, Enervating Shadow and Retributive Invisibility, all of which enable yet more sneak attacks.

Sorcerer spells:
Blade of Blood (+3d6 damage)
Golem Strike (sneak attack vs. constructs)

Assassin spells:
Critical Strike (+1d6 sneak attack)
Insightful Feint (+10 on feint checks, in case we need it)
Sniper Shot (no range limit on sneak attacks)
Swift Invisibility

Total damage dice on a sneak attacked empowered eldritch blast is 106d6 + character level, for an average of 391 points of damage, and a maximum of 656. The Flame of Anor can do this twice in a round (with eldritch chain) or three times (with eldritch glaive), and toss in a knive from the cloud for an additional 29d6+20. Average damage is 903 / 1294, maximum damage is 1506 / 2162. Most of these attacks will hit, since the character has maxed-out dexterity, makes touch attacks most of the time, and has access to True Strike.

Unlike with the Omnicaster, I've tried to avoid cheese this time. As you can see by the result, I have not succeeded entirely :smallbiggrin: but at least, no flaws, entry tricks, weird ways of getting extra feats, or using two double-caster-level prestige classes simultaneously.

If we want to, say, take two flaws, some fun additional feats are:
* Quicken spell-like ability (more eldritch blasts)
* Master spellthief (steal 5th level spells)
* Psychic meditation (faster focus regaining)
* Combat reflexes (more opportunities with Eldritch Glaive)

If people think this build has too many cheese points, I offer a cheeseless version which replaces all legacy champion levels by regular warlock levels. That one only does 73d6+20 damage per empowered sneak blast :smallbiggrin:

Draz74
2008-02-26, 08:15 PM
It sure doesn't have full BAB the way most of us calculate Gestalt BAB. :smallconfused:

Chronos
2008-02-26, 10:28 PM
And it also still has a bunch of levels which advance two PrCs at once.

I wish I had the book with warlocks in it, since I suspect I could make a great warlock//rogue, but lacking that, it's going to be very hard to contribute here. So I'm going to sit this one out.

Draz74
2008-02-26, 10:39 PM
Here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20060912a&page=2) is the class description for the Dragonfire Adept, if that helps anyone.

ZeroNumerous
2008-02-26, 10:41 PM
1. Dragonfire Adept//Young Gold Dragon LA
2. Dragonfire Adept//Young Gold Dragon LA
3. Dragonfire Adept//Young Gold Dragon LA
4. Dragonfire Adept//Young Gold Dragon LA
5. Dragonfire Adept//Young Gold Dragon LA
6. Dragonfire Adept//Young Gold Dragon LA
7. Dragonfire Adept//Young Gold Dragon HD
8. Dragonfire Adept//Young Gold Dragon HD
9. Dragonfire Adept//Young Gold Dragon HD
10. Dragonfire Adept//Young Gold Dragon HD
11. Dragonfire Adept//Young Gold Dragon HD
12. Dragonfire Adept//Young Gold Dragon HD
13. Dragonfire Adept//Young Gold Dragon HD
14. Dragonfire Adept//Young Gold Dragon HD
15. Dragonfire Adept//Young Gold Dragon HD
16. Dragonfire Adept//Young Gold Dragon HD
17. Dragonfire Adept//Young Gold Dragon HD
18. Dragonfire Adept//Young Gold Dragon HD
19. Dragonfire Adept//Young Gold Dragon HD
20. Dragonfire Adept//Young Gold Dragon HD

Sure, it'll never beat Hellfire/Legacy abuse in damage.. Right up until you use maximize/empower breath weapon on Fivefold Breath of Tiamat.

Total damage output of Fivefold Breath of Tiamat: 270+(45d6*1.5)(Approximately 506 damage) of 5 different elements.

Oh, and you get slow breath/entangling breath. So.. Ya.. Melee-classes auto-lose.

Oh, and you can age yourself to be a Great Wyrm Gold Dragon later, but.. Meh. Like that matters.

Thrawn183
2008-02-26, 11:27 PM
Don't forget to quicken that breath and then start full-round attacking. After all, since you're mostly con based you've got the hp...

ZeroNumerous
2008-02-26, 11:38 PM
Don't forget to quicken that breath and then start full-attacking every round. After all, since you're mostly con based you've got the hp...

Ah yes! I forgot about Quicken Breath and the other Metabreath feats available to Dragons. Suffice to say, theres no real need to stat out the rest of the build other than to say "it's like fighting a dragon".

Kurald Galain
2008-02-27, 03:36 AM
It sure doesn't have full BAB the way most of us calculate Gestalt BAB. :smallconfused:
You mean fractionally? Well, no, it doesn't. Actually that was more of a side joke than the point of the build. And warlocks tend to ignore armor values anyway. I've corrected that in my post.


And it also still has a bunch of levels which advance two PrCs at once.
Yep. That gives me a few cheese points (seven, by my count), but that's several orders of magnitude less than the Omnicaster :smallbiggrin:

Duke of URL
2008-02-27, 07:26 AM
Sure, it'll never beat Hellfire/Legacy abuse in damage.. Right up until you use maximize/empower breath weapon on Fivefold Breath of Tiamat.

True, but it isn't playable until level 20, thanks to the racial HD and LA.

Tokiko Mima
2008-02-27, 10:30 AM
Total damage dice on a sneak attacked empowered eldritch blast is 106d6 + character level, for an average of 391 points of damage, and a maximum of 656. The Flame of Anor can do this twice in a round (with eldritch chain) or three times (with eldritch glaive), and toss in a knive from the cloud for an additional 29d6+20. Average damage is 903 / 1294, maximum damage is 1506 / 2162. Most of these attacks will hit, since the character has maxed-out dexterity, makes touch attacks most of the time, and has access to True Strike.

My question on this is how are you dealing with the overflow of Constitution damage? A Naberius vestige bind regenerates a point of Constitution damage every round, but if you're using hellfire damage twice or three times per round you're going to have some excess Constitution penalties building up, possibly more if you use hellfire shield.

Granted it will take a sustained fight with a lot of high HP monsters to drop your Con score to dangerous levels, but still... did you have a way to address this? I'm asking because when I create my warlocks, I normally go the Incarnate/Strongheart Vest route, simply because it entirely negates the issue when making multiple attacks with hellfire. I was wondering why Naberius is more attractive for this build?

Kurald Galain
2008-02-27, 10:48 AM
My question on this is how are you dealing with the overflow of Constitution damage? A Naberius vestige bind regenerates a point of Constitution damage every round,

My counter-question is, if the build is doing over a thousand points of damage per round, how long exactly do you think the fight will last? :smallsmile:

The reason I took Naberius rather than the Strongheart Vest is that, on the charop boards, opinions are divided on whether the latter actually works with Hellfire Blast.

My initial strategy would be to use regular blasts instead, but it turns out that the Magic Item compendium gives an alternative solution, in the form of the Rod of Bodily Restoration.

ShneekeyTheLost
2008-02-27, 10:51 AM
Metamagic rods don't apply to SLA's like your Warlock Eldrich Blast. They only apply to actual spells. There is a feat in the MM which does apply Empower to SLA's, but you would never be able to apply it to your Eldrich Blast since your Blast's effective spell level continues to increase faster than the allowed spell level from the feat.

Plus a BUNCH of PrC//PrC levels. Cheeze much?

Come to think of it, my Army of One (almost) entry (thanks to being sick, I couldn't finish him) might have been a good one for this. Still, Rogue//Warlock or Beguiler//Warlock looks like the best way to go for this competition.

Kurald Galain
2008-02-27, 11:06 AM
Metamagic rods don't apply to SLA's like your Warlock Eldrich Blast.
I'm aware of that; they're there for the sorcerer and assassin spells (e.g. True Strike). I also have the Empower SLA feat.


but you would never be able to apply it to your Eldrich Blast since your Blast's effective spell level continues to increase faster than the allowed spell level from the feat.
I don't think that's true, as on the charop boards Empower SLA is pretty much considered a standard feat for a Warlock. The restriction on levels seems to apply to SLAs that mimic spells, which Eldritch Blast doesn't do. At any rate, Eldritch Glaive can certainly be empowered, as it is a low-level invocation.



Plus a BUNCH of PrC//PrC levels. Cheeze much?
Yes. Did you see the Omnicaster? :smallwink: But, it's not such a big "BUNCH", it only gives seven cheese points. However, I've added a cheeseless variant at the bottom of my post.

Illiterate Scribe
2008-02-27, 11:34 AM
The reason I took Naberius rather than the Strongheart Vest is that, on the charop boards, opinions are divided on whether the latter actually works with Hellfire Blast.

Yes, but the arguments against it are rubbish.


Each time you use this ability, you take 1 point of Constitution damage. Because the diabolical forces behind the power of hellfire demand part of your essence in exchange for this granted power, if you do not have a Constitution score or are somehow immune to Constitution damage, you cannot use this ability.

Note that this refers to 'constitution damage' in general, not in particular. High level barbarians, with their 'DR 1/-', are not immune to damage.

Draz74
2008-02-27, 12:43 PM
"How many ways can I try to be a dragon fanboy at once?"

Name: Zargyl
Build: Dragonborn Kobold Dragonfire Adept 20//Fighter 2/Sorcerer 5/Kobold Paragon 3/Dragon Disciple (silver) 10
Starting Ability Scores: STR 6, DEX 14, CON 16, INT 12, WIS 8, CHA 14
Cheese Points: 0. I do assume that Dragonfire Adepts can take metabreath feats, which some DMs might disagree with. Although even they will agree that I qualify for metabreath feats retroactively, by the end of the build. :smallcool:
Minimum Playable Level: 1
Power Break: none

Level 1: Dragonfire Adept 1 // Fighter 1 (racial sub level)
Level 2: Dragonfire Adept 2 // Fighter 2 (racial sub level)
Level 3: Dragonfire Adept 3 // Sorcerer 1
Level 4: Dragonfire Adept 4 // Kobold Paragon 1
Level 5: Dragonfire Adept 5 // Kobold Paragon 2
Level 6: Dragonfire Adept 6 // Kobold Paragon 3
Level 7: Dragonfire Adept 7 // Sorcerer 2
Level 8: Dragonfire Adept 8 // Sorcerer 3
Level 9: Dragonfire Adept 9 // Dragon Disciple 1
Level 10: Dragonfire Adept 10 // Dragon Disciple 2
Level 11: Dragonfire Adept 11 // Dragon Disciple 3
Level 12: Dragonfire Adept 12 // Dragon Disciple 4
Level 13: Dragonfire Adept 13 // Dragon Disciple 5
Level 14: Dragonfire Adept 14 // Dragon Disciple 6
Level 15: Dragonfire Adept 15 // Dragon Disciple 7
Level 16: Dragonfire Adept 16 // Dragon Disciple 8
Level 17: Dragonfire Adept 17 // Dragon Disciple 9
Level 18: Dragonfire Adept 18 // Dragon Disciple 10
Level 19: Dragonfire Adept 19 // Sorcerer 4
Level 20: Dragonfire Adept 20 // Sorcerer 5

Feats & Ritual Racial Abilities
L1 DfA: Dragontouched
L1 Fighter: Spear Focus (all spears)
L1 Fighter (racial sub): Dodge
L1: Entangling Exhalation
L1: Kobold Draconic Rite of Passage
L1: Dragonborn Rite of Rebirth
L1 Dragonborn Aspect (wings) - Jump +10, gliding
L2 Fighter (racial sub): Constitution Boost
L3: Draconic Reservoir
L3: Greater Draconic Rite of Passage
L6: Ability Focus (DfA breath weapon)
L6 Dragonborn Aspect (wings) - fly
L9: Clinging Breath
L12: Quicken Breath
L12 Dragonborn Aspect (wings) - fly unlimited
L15: Maximize Breath
L18: Dragon Breath

Breath Effects
L2: Lightning Breath
L5: Shaped Breath
L10: Acid Breath
L12: Sleep Breath
L15: Slow Breath
L20: Force Breath

Invocations
L1: Aquatic Adaptation
L3: Beguiling Influence
L6: Frightful Presence
L8: Humanoid Shape
L11: Terrifying Roar
L13: Chilling Fog
L16: Instill Vulnerability
L18: Devour Magic

Final Ability Scores (not including items)
STR 14, DEX 14, CON 25, INT 14, WIS 8, CHA 18

Basic Stats
BAB +14. Base Fort +14, Ref +9, Will +18. Casts spells as an 8th-level Sorcerer, plus 7 bonus 3rd-level spell slots, and invocations as a 20th-level Dragonfire Adept.

Offense
If you're stuck in an antimagic field or something, you do have natural weapons and (eventually) good Strength. But mostly you'll just be breathing elemental damage on everyone. With various battlefield control effects attached (especially Entangling Exhalation). Once in a while you'll throw out a Chilling Fog for more battlefield control, or a Terrifying Roar when some opponents have already failed to save vs. your Frightful Presence (fear effects stack).

Besides your main Dragonfire Adept 9d6-damage breath weapon with all its attached effects, you have a 6d8-damage breath weapon, which you can use for secondary effects. For example, you can just use your metabreath feats on this breath weapon, and not worry about the recharge time because you're still using your main breath weapon every round. Use it especially with Quicken Breath, and apply Entangling to it so you don't have to sacrifice damage on your main breath for a couple rounds in order to Entangle foes.

Defense
Um. Natural AC bonus +10. Final HP 376. Final CON score 36; base Will save +18. That's really all you need to know.

ZekeArgo
2008-02-27, 04:14 PM
Name: Nyr
Build: Human Dragonfire Adept 20 // Binder 6/Knight of the Sacred Seal 4/Legacy Champion 10
Cheese Points: 0
Minimum Playable Level: 1

Level 01: Dragonfire Adept // Binder
Level 02: Dragonfire Adept // Binder
Level 03: Dragonfire Adept // Binder
Level 04: Dragonfire Adept // Binder
Level 05: Dragonfire Adept // Binder
Level 06: Dragonfire Adept // Binder
Level 07: Dragonfire Adept // Knight of the Sacred Seal
Level 08: Dragonfire Adept // Knight of the Sacred Seal
Level 09: Dragonfire Adept // Knight of the Sacred Seal
Level 10: Dragonfire Adept // Knight of the Sacred Seal
Level 11: Dragonfire Adept // Legacy Champion
Level 12: Dragonfire Adept // Legacy Champion
Level 13: Dragonfire Adept // Legacy Champion
Level 14: Dragonfire Adept // Legacy Champion
Level 15: Dragonfire Adept // Legacy Champion
Level 16: Dragonfire Adept // Legacy Champion
Level 17: Dragonfire Adept // Legacy Champion
Level 18: Dragonfire Adept // Legacy Champion
Level 19: Dragonfire Adept // Legacy Champion
Level 20: Dragonfire Adept // Legacy Champion

Not a full build, but essentially a highly-customizable battlefield controller with some very nice immunities from the binder and KotSS levels. Stat points are nearly unneeded since it's quite easy to optimize binding checks, and the dragonfire adept side focuses on using slow/control breaths to control and take enemies down at their leisure.

Legacy champion is there because, well, he's really doing little else with the levels, might as well gain some interesting other stuff

Beren One-Hand
2008-02-27, 08:55 PM
Originally Posted by ShneekeyTheLost
Metamagic rods don't apply to SLA's like your Warlock Eldrich Blast.

I'm aware of that; they're there for the sorcerer and assassin spells (e.g. True Strike). I also have the Empower SLA feat.


but you would never be able to apply it to your Eldrich Blast since your Blast's effective spell level continues to increase faster than the allowed spell level from the feat.

I don't think that's true, as on the charop boards Empower SLA is pretty much considered a standard feat for a Warlock. The restriction on levels seems to apply to SLAs that mimic spells, which Eldritch Blast doesn't do. At any rate, Eldritch Glaive can certainly be empowered, as it is a low-level invocation.

That's not quite true... The Eldritch Blast has a constant spell level of 1st level. Errata changed it from the variable version printed in the books. If you use the Empower SLA feat with it, the total spell-level of the blast must be taken into account. If you use a shape or essense that brings it's spell level above the threshold for the Empower SLA feat then it can't be Empowered with that shape/essense, but it could be used with all others that fall below the required spell level.

Stycotl
2008-02-27, 10:01 PM
Sure, it'll never beat Hellfire/Legacy abuse in damage.. Right up until you use maximize/empower breath weapon on Fivefold Breath of Tiamat.

Total damage output of Fivefold Breath of Tiamat: 270+(45d6*1.5)(Approximately 506 damage) of 5 different elements.

Oh, and you get slow breath/entangling breath. So.. Ya.. Melee-classes auto-lose.

Oh, and you can age yourself to be a Great Wyrm Gold Dragon later, but.. Meh. Like that matters.

interesting. i had pondered about a dragon taking dragonfire adept, but immediately dismissed it because i figured it wouldn't work well together. at least, not enough to warrant that class over another. you can't breathe the natural breath and the class ability breath weapon at the same time can you?

so you would have to use your class-breath every round except for the 1d4th (like that?) round where you would get your natural breath weapon.

just my assumption. not really sure how the ruling would be.

Cuddly
2008-02-27, 10:32 PM
I didn't think dragons could qualify for the draconic rite of passage or whatever that combo is that lets kobolds advance 3 age categories and get a free sorc caster level.

Draz74
2008-02-28, 12:11 AM
Really? Hmmm. I will have to re-do my entry with Dragon Disciple instead of Half-Dragon, then. Or give up Draconic Rite of Passage.

Bitzeralisis
2008-02-28, 12:19 AM
Your contest looks quite interesting, but this topic isn't my style... "Double Dippers" and "Vulnerable Villains" are by far my favorite upcoming topics.

Squash Monster
2008-02-28, 02:59 AM
Agreed, there really isn't much to do with invocation. I'm looking forward to pretty much every other category (especially Vulnerable Villains and In-core-eligible), but this one's way too limited.

And, on the topic of contest categories, here are a few ideas:
- Re-incarnate-tion - builds that spotlight material from Magic of Incarnum
- Roll for Initiator - initiators (ie: tome of battle classes)
And last but best:
- Tiny Titans - Gestalt E6

In the meantime, I'm gonna see if I can find anything interesting at all to do with Dragonfire Adept // Sorcerer, beyond the obvious entangling lingering blinding breath.

Cuddly
2008-02-28, 07:01 AM
Really? Hmmm. I will have to re-do my entry with Dragon Disciple instead of Half-Dragon, then. Or give up Draconic Rite of Passage.

Not 100%, but I was looking at making a gestalt kobold that took full advantage of all the surprisingly sweet stuff they could get their scaly hands on, and I think that was one of those "oh, so I can't start out as a half dragon and then undertake a draconic ritual to make me a dragon again, dang" moments.

ZeroNumerous
2008-02-28, 09:21 AM
so you would have to use your class-breath every round except for the 1d4th (like that?) round where you would get your natural breath weapon.

Tactics: Round 1-Charge. Quickened Slow Breath. Bite for irrelevant damage.
Round 2- Quickened, Maximized, Empowered Fivefold Breath of Tiamat; Full attack with maximized power attack.
Round 3- Quickened, Maximized, Empowered natural breath (6d10 works out to only 60(6d10*1.5) or about 93 damage); Full attack with maximized power attack.
Round 4- It's dead, Jim.


True, but it isn't playable until level 20, thanks to the racial HD and LA.

I don't particularly care, since I was just shooting for damage/disability. I don't even plan to make it a full application since it's basically a dragon when you think about the invocations it has access to.

Duke of URL
2008-02-28, 09:26 AM
And, on the topic of contest categories, here are a few ideas:
- Re-incarnate-tion - builds that spotlight material from Magic of Incarnum
- Roll for Initiator - initiators (ie: tome of battle classes)
And last but best:
- Tiny Titans - Gestalt E6


Not a big fan of Incarnum or E6, and anytime someone breathes the word "melee", you get more ToB-based builds than you can shake a stick at.

Mr. Friendly
2008-02-28, 12:14 PM
Mine is a little boring - I wasn't going to enter, but then I thought.. meh, why not. Inspired by 4th Edition's Warlock who seems to have stolen a lot of the Hexblades's schtick...

"I'm just so... balanced?"

Name: The 4-lock
Build: Human Warlock 20//Hexblade 20
Starting Ability Scores: STR 10, DEX 12, CON 13, INT 10, WIS 10, CHA 16
Cheese Points: 0
Minimum Playable Level: 1
Power Break: None?

{table]Level|Classes|BAB|F|R|W|Class Features
1|Hexblade//Warlock|1|0|0|2|Curse 1/Day;EB 1d6
2|Hexblade//Warlock|2|0|0|3|Arcane Resistance; D. Magic
3|Hexblade//Warlock|3|1|1|3|Mettle; DR, EB 2d6
4|Hexblade//Warlock|4|1|1|4|Familiar*; Deceive Item
5|Hexblade//Warlock|5|1|1|4|Curse 2/Day; EB 3d6
6|Hexblade//Warlock|6|2|2|5|
7|Hexblade//Warlock|7|2|2|6|Gr.Curse; DR2, EB 4d6
8|Hexblade//Warlock|8|2|2|6|Resiliance (FR) 1
9|Hexblade//Warlock|9|3|3|6|Curse 3/Day; EB 5d6
10|Hexblade//Warlock|10|3|3|7|E.Resistance 5
11|Hexblade//Warlock|11|3|3|7|DR3, EB 6d6
12|Hexblade//Warlock|12|4|4|8|Unluck 1/Day; Imbue
13|Hexblade//Warlock|13|4|4|8|Curse 4/Day; FR2
14|Hexblade//Warlock|14|4|4|9|EB 7d6
15|Hexblade//Warlock|15|5|5|9|DR4
16|Hexblade//Warlock|16|5|5|10|Unluck 2/Day
17|Hexblade//Warlock|17|5|5|10|Curse 5/Day; EB 8d6
18|Hexblade//Warlock|18|6|6|11|FR 5
19|Hexblade//Warlock|19|6|6|11|Dire Curse; DR5
20|Hexblade//Warlock|20|6|6|12|Unluck 3/Day; EB 10, ER10[/table]

HD 20d10 (114 average)

Feats etc.:
(b) Human 1: Ability Focus (Eldritch Blast)
Level 1 Feat: Ability Focus (Curse)
Level 3 Feat: Skill Focus (Diplomacy)
Level 4 Attribute: Constitution
*Level 4 Substitution: Familiar is replaced with Shadow Companion per the PHII
(b) Hexblade 5: Spell Penetration
Level 6 Feat: Extra Invocation (least)
Level 8 Attribute: Charisma
Level 9 Feat: Extra Invocation (least)
(b) Hexblade 10: Greater Spell Penetration
Level 12 Attribute: Charisma
Level 12 Feat: Extra Invocation (lesser)
(b) Hexblade 15: Combat Casting
Level 15 Feat: Extra Invocation (lesser)
Level 16 Attribute: Charisma
Level 18 Feat: Extra Invocation (greater)
(b) Hexblade 20: Spell Focus (enchantment)
Level 20 Attribute: Charisma

Invocations:
Least: Hideous Blow, Baleful Utterance, Beguiling Influence, Miasmic Cloud, Dark One's Own Luck
Lesser: Charm, Curse of Despair, Fell Flight, Flee the Scene, Voidsense
Greater: Vitriolic Blast, Chilling Tentacles, Devour Magic, Tenacious Plague
Dark: Dark Discorporation, Path of Shadows, Word of Changing

Spells: He has 5 known of 1st through 4th. Without items he is casting 5/4/4/4. Pretty good stuff, but he is an invoker, first.

Equipment: I'm not bothering. You can make a reasonable assumption about what he would have though; items to increase CHA, CON, STR and DEX all top the list, along with items that add to Warlock and Hexblade abilities (like Bracers of Hexing) and some sort of awesome light armor; I don't really feel like going through the whole nickle and dime list - besides, it's about the invoking, right?

Final Ability Scores: Str 10 Dex 12 Con 14 Int 10 Wis 10 Cha 20 - no items

Overview: To me Hexblade and Warlock go together like Peanut Butter and Jelly. They are, IMO, very complimentary to each other, the Hexblade providing much needed BAB and HP. The Curse effects, extra spells and Aura of Unluck are snazzy too.

Offense: A bunch. He is primarily an Invoker though. His full BAB ensures he will usually hit with his Blast and his array of Warlock abilities, coupled with his Hexs, Curses and other nuisances should effectively reduce even the most optimized into a range that can be affected by his Invocations.

Defense: Also a bunch. Dark Discorporation gives him a wide array of defense/stealth, while Flee the Scene lets him get out of trouble.

Weaknesses: Lack of Skill Points, only one good save. He also lacks the overwhelming punch that many others might have. Overall though he is fairly balanced and while he might really only pose a threat to the capital city of the grand duchy of whatever, he is still a threat.

Draz74
2008-02-28, 01:18 PM
And last but best:
- Tiny Titans - Gestalt E6

Now, that's awesome. I don't know how much you could actually do with it, but it's definitely a new direction to take.

Hmmm. Gandalf becomes clear at last: Aasimar Bard 6//LA+1/Paladin 5. With lots of "epic" feats.

_Puppetmaster_
2008-02-28, 05:12 PM
Entry:

Name: More Cheese Than You Can Shake A Stick At
Build: Half-Fey Half-Red Dragon Legendary Dromite LA 13/Fighter 1/Cleric 1/Barbarian 1/Binder 1/Major Demon Bloodline 3//Warlock 20
Cheese Points: 7 (Templates, Dips)
Starting Ability Scores: Str 24, Dex 22, Con 24, Int 12, Wis 10, Cha 30
Level 20 Ability Scores: Str 31, Dex 22, Con 26, Int 12, Wis 10, Cha 39
Level 20 Ability Scores (with Buffs): Str 37, Dex 22, Con 32, Int 12, Wis 10, Cha 45
Minimum Playable Level: 16
Power Break: ?


Half-Fey Half-Dragon Legendary Dromite [Blind-Fight, Improved Initiative, Multiattack] {Dromite Traits, Cleric Casting CL 5, Half-Fey Spell-Like Abilities, Reflective Hide, Scent, Dragon Traits, Natural Armor +12, Fly 40ft (good), Fast Healing 5, Resistance to Sonic 5, Sonic Energy Ray 1/day, 1pp, Compound Eyes, Small Size, Immunity to Enchantment spells/effects and Fire, Breath Weapon (6d8 fir, 30ft cone, 1/day)}

LA 1//Warlock 1: Improved Toughness {Invocations, Bloodline Abilities, Eldritch Blast 1d6}
LA 2//Warlock 2 [Power Attack] {Detect Magic at will}
Bloodline 1//Warlock 3: Ability Focus (invocations) {Eldritch Blast 2d6, DR 1/Cold Iron)
LA 3//Warlock 4 {Deceive Item}
LA 4//Warlock 5 {Eldritch Blast 3d6}
Bloodline 2//Warlock 6: Weapon Focus (Eldritch Blast)
LA 5//Warlock 7 {Eldritch Blast 4d6, DR 2/Cold Iron}
LA 6//Warlock 8 {Fiendish Resilience 1}
LA 7//Warlock 9: Frightful Presence {Eldritch Blast 5d6}
LA 8//Warlock 10 {Resistance to Acid, Cold 5}
LA 9//Warlock 11 {DR 3/Cold Iron, Eldritch Blast 6d6}
Bloodline 3//Warlock 12: Extra Invocation {Imbue Item}
LA 10//Warlock 13 {Fiendish Resilience 2}
LA 11//Warlock 14 [Cleave] {Eldritch Blast 7d6}
LA 12//Warlock 15: Point Blank Shot {DR 4/Cold Iron}
LA 13//Warlock 16 [Chaos Shuffle 1: Eldritch Claws]
Cleric 1//Warlock 17 [Chaos Shuffle 6: Rapidstrike (claws), Weapon Focus (claws), Extra Invocation (x4)] {Domains: War, Fate, Eldritch Blast 8d6}
Binder 1// Warlock 18: Precise Shot [Chaos Shuffle 1: Psionic Fist] {Soul Binding, Fiendish Resilience 5}
Barbarian 1// Warlock 19 [Chaos Shuffle 3: Greater Psionic Fist, Lightning Reflexes, Extra Invocation] {DR 5/Cold Iron, Fast Movement, Rage 1/day}
Fighter 1// Warlock 20 [Chaos Shuffle 5: Greater Rapidstrike, Fiendish Heritage, Fiendish Legacy, Fiendish Presence, Fiendish Power] {Eldritch Blast 9d6}
Invocations (Level/invocation)
1/Baleful Utterance
2/Dark One’s Own Luck
4/Entropic Warding
6/Curse of Despair
8/Eldritch Chain
10/Voratious Dispelling
11/Vitrolic Blast
13/Eldritch Cone
15/Devour Magic
16/Retributive Invisibility
18/Utterdark Blast
20/Eldritch Doom
Extra/Noxious Blast, Wall of Perilous Flame, Chilling Tentacles, Repelling Blast, Enervating Shadows

Chaos Shuffle: More Cheese Than You Can Shake A Stick At uses the Chaos Shuffle on the armor feats that he gains from all of the dips. He has 16 extra feats from the chaos shuffle

Offense:
More Cheese Than You Can Shake A Stick At has the Eldritch Claws, Rapidstrike, Weapon Focus (eldritch blast), and Weapon Focus (Claws), and greater rapidstrike feats, giving him a melee attack routine of +28/+28/+23/+18/+13/+8 (1d3+9d6+15+invocation effect) with eldritch claws.

Defense:
Between a continuous Spell Turning that never runs down, greater invisibility at will, an AC of 42, I think he’s pretty well protected.
His Save Bonuses are:
Fortitude: +28
Reflex:+15
Will: +31

Equipment:
16 Scrolls of Embrace the Dark Chaos (used) (68,000gp)
16 Scrolls of Shun the Dark Chaos (used) (68,000gp)
+5 Mithril Breastplate (54,200gp)
Ring of Protection +5 (50,000gp)
Amulet of Health +6 (36,000gp)
Belt of Giant Strength +6 (36,000gp)
Cloak of Charisma +6 (36,000gp)
Manual of Gainful Exercise +5 (used) (137,500gp)
Tome of Leadership and Influence +5 (used) (137,500gp)
Ring of Freedom of Movement (40,000gp)

Money Left: 96,800gp

Chronos
2008-02-28, 08:37 PM
Chaos Shuffle: More Cheese Than You Can Shake A Stick At uses the Chaos Shuffle on the armor feats that he gains from all of the dips. He has 16 extra feats from the chaos shuffleWhy stop there? You might as well also shuffle away all of the martial weapon proficiencies you get, too, for 35 more feats each from Fighter and Barbarian.

Oh, and pick up Scribe Scroll, too, to save you money on those Dark Chaos scrolls (and in turn, let you use a lot more of them).

Beren One-Hand
2008-02-28, 08:46 PM
Name: Faustus the Civil Servant
Build: Human Warlock 5 / Acolyte of the Skin 10 / Alienist 5 // Spirit Shaman 5 / Alienist 5 / Hexblade 4 / Blackguard 3 / Rogue 3
Starting Ability Scores: STR 13, DEX 12, CON 12, INT 10, WIS 13, CHA 15
Cheese Points: 9 points* (Ignoring multiclass restrictions & eight double PrC levels)
Minimum Playable Level: 1
Power Break: 9 (Cha to saves vs spells), 13 (Cha to all saves, x2 vs spells), 16 (Mettle), 18 (Evasion)

{table=head]ECL | Left Class | Right Class | HD (Avg HP) | BAB |Base Fort/Ref/Will | Invocations Known | Eldritch Blast | Special Abilities
1 | Warlock | Spirit Shaman | 1d8+1 (9 hp) | +0 | +2/+0/+2 | 1 Least | 1d6 | Wild Empathy, Spirit Guide
2 | Warlock | Spirit Shaman | 2d8+2 (14 hp) | +1 | +3/+0/+3 | 2 Least | 1d6 | Detect Magic, Chastise Spirits
3 | Warlock | Spirit Shaman | 3d8+3 (20 hp) | +2 | +3/+1/+3 | 2 Least | 2d6 | Damage Reduction 1/Cold Iron, Detect Spirits
4 | Warlock | Spirit Shaman | 4d8+4 (25 hp) | +3 | +4/+1/+4 | 3 Least | 2d6 | Decieve Item, Blessing of the Spirits
5 | Warlock | Spirit Shaman | 5d8+5 (31 hp) | +3 | +4/+1/+4 | 3 Least | 3d6 | Follow the Guide
6 | Acolyte of the Skin | Alienist | 6d8+6 (36 hp) | +4 | +5/+2/+5 | 3 Least, 1 Lesser | 3d6 | Wear Fiend (+1 NA, +2 Dex), Poison 1/day, Familiar Abilities, Summon Alien
7 | Acolyte of the Skin | Hexblade | 6d8+1d10+7 (43 hp) | +5 | +5/+2/+5 | 3 Least, 1 Lesser | 4d6 | Flame Resistant, Hexblade Curse
8 | Acolyte of the Skin | Alienist | 7d8+1d10+8 (48 hp) | +6 | +6/+2/+6 | 3 Least, 2 Lesser | 4d6 | Fiendish Glare, Alien Blessing
9 | Acolyte of the Skin | Hexblade | 7d8+2d10+9 (55 hp) | +7 | +6/+3/+6 | 3 Least, 2 Lesser | 5d6 | Arcane Resistance
10 | Acolyte of the Skin | Alienist | 8d8+2d10+20 (79 hp) | +8 | +7/+3/+7 | 3 Least, 3 Lesser | 5d6 | Skin Adaptation (+2 NA, +2 Con), Poison 2/day, Metamagic Secret
11 | Acolyte of the Skin | Blackguard | 8d8+3d10+22 (87 hp) | +9 | +7/+3/+7 | 3 Least, 3 Lesser, 1 Greater | 6d6 | Cold Resistant, Aura of Evil, Detect Good, Poison Use, 0 1st-level Blackguard spells per day
12 | Acolyte of the Skin | Alienist | 9d8+3d10+24+3 (96 hp) | +9 | +8/+4/+8 | 3 Least, 3 Lesser, 1 Greater | 6d6 | Glare of the Pit, Mad Certainty
13 | Acolyte of the Skin | Blackguard | 9d8+4d10+26+3 (104 hp) | +10 | +8/+4/+8 | 3 Least, 3 Lesser, 2 Greater | 6d6 | Dark Blessing, Smite Good 1/day, 1 1st-level Blackguard spells per day
14 | Acolyte of the Skin | Alienist | 10d8+4d10+28+3 (110 hp) | +11 | +9/+4/+9 | 3 Least, 3 Lesser, 2 Greater | 7d6 | Summon Fiend, Pseudonatural Familiar
15 | Acolyte of the Skin | Blackguard | 10d8+5d10+30+3 (118 hp) | +12 | +9/+5/+9 | 3 Least, 3 Lesser, 3 Greater | 7d6 | Fiendish Symbiosis (Become Outsider, DR 10/Good), Command Undead, Aura of Despair, 0 2nd-level Blackguard spells per day
16 | Alienist | Hexblade | 10d8+6d10+32+3 (125 hp) | +13 | +10/+5/+10 | 3 Least, 3 Lesser, 3 Greater, 1 Dark | 7d6 | Extra Summoning, Mettle
17 | Alienist | Rogue | 10d8+6d10+1d6+34+3 (131 hp) | +14 | +10/+7/+10 | 3 Least, 3 Lesser, 3 Greater, 1 Dark | 8d6 | Metamagic Secret, Trapfinding, Sneak Attack +1d6
18 | Alienist | Rogue | 10d8+6d10+2d6+36+6 (139 hp) | +15 | +11/+8/+11 | 3 Least, 3 Lesser, 3 Greater, 2 Dark | 8d6 | Insane Certainty, Evasion
19 | Alienist | Hexblade | 10d8+7d10+2d6+38+6 (147 hp) | +16 | +11/+8/+11 | 3 Least, 3 Lesser, 3 Greater, 2 Dark | 8d6 | Timeless Body, Familiar
20 | Alienist | Spirit Shaman | 11d8+6d10+2d6+40+6 (153 hp) | +16 | +12/+9/+12 | 3 Least, 3 Lesser, 3 Greater, 3 Dark | 9d6 | Alien Transcendence, Ghost Warrior[/table]

Final Defensive Bonuses:
+2 Natural Armor
Damage Reduction 10/Good, 10/Magic, & 1/Cold Iron
Acid Resistance 10
Cold Resistance 10
Electricity Resistance 10
Fire Resistance 10
CHA bonus to all saves
2x's CHA bonus to saves vs spells/spell-like effects
Evasion
Mettle
Armor and Weapons can be used against incorporial creatures
Alertness
24 hr Protection from Spirits

Final Ability Increases
+2 Dex (Inherent)
+2 Con (Inherent)
+5 Cha (Ability Score Increase by Level)

Required Feats
Human Bonus - Power Attack
Level 1 - Augmented Summoning
Level 3 - Cleave
Level 6 - Improved Sunder

Required Items
Needs at least an amulet of wisdom +2 by level 8 if you want to cast more than 1st level druid spells

Background
Like all good civil servants, Faustus belives everything should be done in triplicate. As such, when he went shopping around to sell his soul he was lead by his spirit guide to three different sources of power and bargained with each. After all what could be more satisfing then being an alien creature wearing a fiendish skin who works in the service of one of the Dark Lords?

*A note about cheese: While technically this build has 9 cheese points, 8 of them are there just for flavor. Doubling up the PrC's with the Acolyte of the Skin was solely for the flavor of multiple "sellings of the soul". The Blackguard benefits could have been generated with a Paladin of Tyranny base class, and most of the Alienist abilities cannot be used with this build (as it cannot actually summon any creatures once it takes the first level, and it doesn't get a familiar until level 19).

Chosen_of_Vecna
2008-02-29, 12:26 AM
I wish someone would tell me how to make tables on this forum, but I'm not missing out on another of these waiting.

Name: Sir Craftalot
Build: Warlock 17/Hellfire Warlock 3//Factotum 1/Binder 1/Factotum 3/Chameleon 10/Sacred Exorcist 1/Factotum 4
Starting Ability Scores: STR 14, DEX 8, CON 12, INT 14, WIS 14, CHA 14
Cheese Points: 1-as many Nightsticks as you want.
Minimum Playable Level: 1
Power Break: 6-Chameleon, 7-Extra Feat, 12-Item Crafting, 16 DMM Persist.

Persistent buff yourself, using all those Nightsticks you crafted based on your rotating bonus feat. Equip Divine and Arcane, Persist buff yourself. Switch to Might and whatever else, use your Extra action from Factotum to move close, then Eldritch Glaive away with Full Power Attack, Full BAB, Hellfire Attack.

OffenseEldritch Glaive for lots of very damaging attacks.

Defense All your Persisted Buffs, DR, Resistances, Decent HP and Saves.

WeaknessesIdeally, you'll also Craft Prayer Beads and a Ring of Enduring Arcana, making you mostly Dispel proof. Less Ideally, you'll forget and get face owned by a dispel based caster with Inquisition Domain, Arcane Thesis, Elven Spell Lore.

Beren One-Hand
2008-02-29, 12:51 AM
I wish someone would tell me how to make tables on this forum, but I'm not missing out on another of these waiting.

Just click the Quote button on a post that has a table in it. Look for the text between {table=head] and [/table]

Each row ends at the return and each colomn is seperated by " | ".

Hope this helps, it's how I learned how to do it.

avr
2008-02-29, 04:26 AM
Name: Zxyxxy't the Unpronounceable
Classes: Warlock 20 // LA+2 / Cleric 3 / Sovereign Speaker 9 / Thaumaturgist 5 / Cleric +1
Starting Ability Scores: STR 8, DEX 16, CON 12, INT 14, WIS 14, CHA 16
Cheese Points: 1 (Periapt of Wisdom or similar required at later levels to cast all clerical spells, assuming level up bonuses go into CHA)
Minimum Playable Level: 3
Power Breaks: L8 (anyspell - Web), L18 (Contingent conjuration)

Female Drow: Favoured class cleric, 120' darkvision, light blindness, SR etc
1: Warlock 1 // LA +1: Eldritch blast 1d6
2: Warlock 2 // LA +2: Detect magic
3: Warlock 3 // Cleric 1: DR 1/cold iron, EB 2d6, undead turning, Domains (Charm, Life)
4: Warlock 4 // Cleric 2: Deceive item
5: Warlock 5 // Cleric 3: EB 3d6
6: Warlock 6 // Sovereign Speaker 1: Bonus domain (Travel)
7: Warlock 7 // S. Speaker 2: DR 2/cold iron, ED 4d6, Bonus domain (Luck)
8: Warlock 8 // S. Speaker 3: Fiendish Resilience 1, Bonus domain (Spell), Bonus 3rd level domain slot
9: Warlock 9 // S. Speaker 4: EB 5d6, Bonus domain (Protection)
10: Warlock 10 // S. Speaker 5: Energy resist (fire, cold) 5, Bonus domain (Celerity)
11: Warlock 11 // S. Speaker 6: DR 3/cold iron, EB 6d6, Bonus domain (Animal), Bonus 5th level domain slot (not usuable until L13)
12: Warlock 12 // S. Speaker 7: Imbue item, Bonus domain (Community [Eberron version])
13: Warlock 13 // S. Speaker 8: Fiendish resilience 2, Bonus domain (Mind)
14: Warlock 14 // S. Speaker 9: EB 7d6, Bonus domain (Liberation), Bonus 7th level domain slot (not usuable until L17)
15: Warlock 15 // Thaumaturgist 1: DR 4/cold iron, improved ally
16: Warlock 16 // Thaum. 2: Bonus feat: Augment summoning
17: Warlock 17 // Thaum. 3: EB 8d6, Extended summoning
18: Warlock 18 // Thaum. 4: Fiendish resilience 5, Contingent conjuration
19: Warlock 19 // Thaum. 5: DR 5/cold iron, Planar cohort
20: Warlock 20 // Cleric 4: EB 9d6, energy resistance (fire, cold) 10

Feats:
1: Ability focus (Eldritch Blast)
3: Worldly focus
6: Divine alacrity
9: Spell focus (Conjuration)
12: Extra invocation (voidsense)
15: Quicken spell
18: Quicken SLA (Repelling Eldritch Chain)

Invocations:
(least) 1: Frightful blast (swap for Eldritch Spear at L6), 2: Beguiling Influence, 4: Spiderwalk
(lesser) 6: Beshadowed blast, 8: Eldritch chain, 10: Charm
(greater) 11: Repelling blast, 13: Vitriolic blast, 15: Enervating shadow
(dark) 16: Utterdark blast, 18: Word of changing, 20: Path of shadow

Skills:
She should be a social demon with Beguiling influence and the domain bonuses. I wouldn't bother with UMD, she has enough spells on her class lists with all the bonus domains already. YMMV.

Final Caster Level
Warlock 20
Cleric 16, number of spells as as a 16th level Cleric with 1 each bonus 3rd, 5th & 7th level domain spell slot

Offensive:
I think the huge damage builds are already out there. Zxyxxy'ts offensive strength is with blast essences targeting each of the saves at a high DC (the Charm domain gives a +4 untyped CHA bonus for 1 minute/day as a free action, Ability focus apparently applies to all blast essences used by an Eldritch blast.)

Defensive:
Spell Resistance of 11 + class levels for a start. Also, keep moving; the Divine alacrity feat, or Longstrider and/or the granted power of the Celerity domain will help here. Use Anyspell to prepare Web and the Spiderwalk invocation to be personally unaffected by it so she can hide inside.

Her Will save is good and her Fort save fair. Clerical buffs will be important though, and summoned creatures will be also if the party is short on meatshields.

Weaknesses:
Poor hit points for gestalt (6 + 1d6 + 12d8 + 5d6 + 1d8 + 20, avg 105.5 without items or buffs at L20). DR and buffs will help, but maybe not enough. Until she gets the Voidsense invocation, light blindness will occasionally be a problem. As a good drow, some players and DMs will want her dead on sight.

Background:
Sent to negotiate for her clan in Stormreach, she was converted by a cleric of the Sovereign host in some unlikely event. Her clan rejected her conversion, so she left to adventure across the world and to spread the word of the Sovereign Host.

Burley
2008-02-29, 08:50 AM
Name: Zxyxxy't the Unpronounceable

Aight, I'm just throwing this out there. I'd suggest that you trade either Beshadowed Blast or Charm for Fell Flight. It's better than Spiderwalk, by a long shot. Also, if you take Fell Flight, you can trade Spiderwalk for Eldritch Glaive from Dragon Magic, which, as we all know is d'bomb.
I...erm...didn't read all of your flavor, so, maybe you have reasons for those. Just suggestions. (Charm is more useful than Beshadowed Blast...)

_Puppetmaster_
2008-02-29, 01:00 PM
Why stop there? You might as well also shuffle away all of the martial weapon proficiencies you get, too, for 35 more feats each from Fighter and Barbarian.

Oh, and pick up Scribe Scroll, too, to save you money on those Dark Chaos scrolls (and in turn, let you use a lot more of them).

because the martial weapon proficiency feat dosent state that fighters/Barbarians/any other class get it as a bonus feat, but armor/sheild proficiencies do

Draz74
2008-03-01, 04:37 PM
I fixed Zargyl so he can take the Draconic Rite of Passage before he becomes a Half-Dragon. Took away his Dragon Shaman levels to make up for it. The only thing he really loses is constant Spider Climb, but that doesn't really matter when he has flight and 6th-level Sorcerer casting.

Chronos
2008-03-01, 06:40 PM
Doesn't one of those rituals give you the Dragon type, some time before level 9? That'd unfortunately disqualify you for Dragon Disciple. If you went through the ritual after your first disciple level, though, the rules are unclear (by some interpretations, you only need to meet prereqs to take the first level of a PrC).

And I don't see how there could be any objection to a Dragonfire Adept taking metabreath feats. The prerequisite is "has a breath weapon", not "is a dragon".

The only criticism I would have of the build is that although it uses an invoking class, it's really built much more around the breath weapon than it is around the invoking. But with only two invoking classes available (severely restricting flexibility), I'm probably willing to let that slide.

_Puppetmaster_
2008-03-01, 07:03 PM
here is another cheesy entry (yes, I'm going for the Gouda award)


Name: Cheesewrought Wraith
Build: Level 3 Evolved Half-Fey Half-Red Dragon Venerable Kobold Wraith LA 16/Fighter 1/Cleric 1/Barbarian 1/Binder 1///Warlock 20
Cheese Points: 8 (Templates, Dips)
Starting Ability Scores: Str -, Dex 28, Con -, Int 17, Wis 15, Cha 39
Level 20 Ability Scores: Str -, Dex 34, Con -, Int 17, Wis 15, Cha 54
Level 20 Ability Scores (with Buffs): Str -, Dex 40, Con -, Int 17, Wis 15, Cha 60
Minimum Playable Level: 16
Power Break: 16

Level 3 Evolved Half-Fey Half-Red Dragon Kobold Wraith {Kobold Traits, Fast Healing 9, Half-Fey Spell-Like Abilities, Undead Traits, Fly 60ft (Perfect), Small Size, Immunity to Enchantment spells/effects and Fire, Breath Weapon (6d8 fire, 30ft cone, 1/day), Spell-Like Abilities (1/day: Cone of Cold, Creeping Doom, Circle of Death [CL20, DC 34+Spell Level]), Sunlight Powerlessness, Deflection bonus 3+Cha Modifier, Unnatural Aura, Incorporeal Subtype, Create Spawn, Constitution Drain, Turn Resistance +2}

LA 1//Warlock 1: Dragonwrought {Invocations, Eldritch Blast 1d6}
LA 2//Warlock 2 {Detect Magic at will}
LA 3//Warlock 3: Endure Sunlight {Eldritch Blast 2d6, DR 1/Cold Iron)
LA 4//Warlock 4 {Deceive Item}
LA 5//Warlock 5 {Eldritch Blast 3d6}
LA 6//Warlock 6: Epic Prowess
LA 7//Warlock 7 {Eldritch Blast 4d6, DR 2/Cold Iron}
LA 8//Warlock 8 {Fiendish Resilience 1}
LA 9//Warlock 9: Frightful Presence {Eldritch Blast 5d6}
LA 10//Warlock 10 {Resistance to Acid, Cold 5}
LA 11//Warlock 11 {DR 3/Cold Iron, Eldritch Blast 6d6}
LA 12//Warlock 12: Great Charisma {Imbue Item}
LA 13//Warlock 13 {Fiendish Resilience 2}
LA 14//Warlock 14 [Cleave] {Eldritch Blast 7d6}
LA 15//Warlock 15: Run {DR 4/Cold Iron}
LA 16//Warlock 16 [Chaos Shuffle 1: Epic Prowess]
Cleric 1//Warlock 17 [Chaos Shuffle 6: Empowered Ability Damage, Weapon Focus (Incorporeal Touch), Extra Invocation (x2), Necrotic Reserve, Leadership] {Domains: War, Fate, Eldritch Blast 8d6}
Binder 1// Warlock 18: Precise Shot [Chaos Shuffle 1: Great Dexterity] {Soul Binding, Fiendish Resilience 5}
Barbarian 1// Warlock 19 [Chaos Shuffle 3: Great Dexterity Epic Speed, Epic Leadership] {DR 5/Cold Iron, Fast Movement, Rage 1/day}
Fighter 1// Warlock 20 [Chaos Shuffle 5: Extended Reach (incorporeal Touch), Flyby Attack, Great Flyby Attack, Great Charisma (x2)] {Eldritch Blast 9d6}


Invocations (Level/invocation)
1/Baleful Utterance
2/Dark One’s Own Luck
4/Entropic Warding
6/Hideous Blow
8/Eldritch Chain
10/Voratious Dispelling
11/Vitrolic Blast
13/Eldritch Cone
15/Devour Magic
16/Retributive Invisibility
18/Utterdark Blast
20/Eldritch Doom
Extra/ Chilling Tentacles, Repelling Blast

Chaos Shuffle: Cheesewrought Wraith uses the Chaos Shuffle on the armor feats that he gains from all of the dips. He has 16 extra feats from the chaos shuffle

Offense:
Cheesewrought Wraith’s tactics are to rush up with Great Flyby attack, striking any enemies that he can reach with a hideous blow incorporeal touch. He can hit eight enemies per flyby attack, has a ply speed of 90ft (perfect), and has ten-foot reach.
Cheesewrought Wraith also has some serious firepower from his spell-like abilities. He also has over 1000 followers that he views as expendable*.

Defense:
Cheesewrought Wraith has the undead type, so he is immune to a lot of stuff. He is also immune to fire, and has Retributive Invisibility. Also, see above about the followers.

Weakness:
Cheesewrought Wraith can only stay in natural sunlight for 24 rounds before loosing all of his powers.

Equipment:
16 Scrolls of Embrace the Dark Chaos (used) (68,000gp)
16 Scrolls of Shun the Dark Chaos (used) (68,000gp)
+5 Ghost Touch Mithril Breastplate (40,200gp)
Ghost Touch Gloves of Dexterity +6 (39,600gp)
Ghost Touch Cloak of Charisma +6 (39,600gp)
Manual of Quickness of Action +4 (used) (137,500gp)
Tome of Leadership and Influence +5 (used) (137,500gp)


Money Left: 230,000gp

*Cheesewrought Wraith has a leadership score of 44 and the epic leadership feat.

avr
2008-03-01, 08:50 PM
Aight, I'm just throwing this out there. I'd suggest that you trade either Beshadowed Blast or Charm for Fell Flight. It's better than Spiderwalk, by a long shot. Also, if you take Fell Flight, you can trade Spiderwalk for Eldritch Glaive from Dragon Magic, which, as we all know is d'bomb.
I...erm...didn't read all of your flavor, so, maybe you have reasons for those. Just suggestions. (Charm is more useful than Beshadowed Blast...)

'Lo Burley - yeah, there's reasons. First, she gets the Travel domain & so the Fly spell about when she could get Fell Flight anyway. Fell Flight is better but maybe not enough better to spend a Lesser rather than Least invocation on it. Second, I wanted a blast essence targeting each of the 3 save types.

I don't have Dragon Magic, but isn't Eldritch Glaive a melee trick? This character isn't really ideal for melee at the moment.

The Gilded Duke
2008-03-02, 01:49 AM
Glaive Fist
Warforged Crusader 20 // Warlock 20
Str: 14 Dex: 12 Con: 12 Int: 12 Wis:10 Cha: 14
Cheese: None

Glaive Fist is a battlefield control character who has great difficulty dying and never gets tired. Glaive Fist never runs out of maneuvers. Glaive Fist never runs out of Invocations. Glaive Fist does not need to eat, breath, sleep, drink, or rest. Glaive Fist is able to heal himself constantly through a battle, and can make fortitude saves to avoid dying from hit point loss. Glaive Fist has warforged immunities, good saves, and Mettle. Glaive Fist has a caster level of 16 for his Invocations, and a martial adept level of 20. None of his Invocations have effects based on caster level.

Glaive Fist usually enters battle with some sort of concealment up, usually using Retributive Invisibility. He then throws up Chilling Tentacles to disable enemy movement. Glaive Fist can fly, but prefers to fight on the ground with his tentacles assisting and so uses Weighty Utterance to lower other fighters to the ground.

Then Glaive will switch to his "Leading the Charge" stance, letting him add his adept level to charge damage. If available he will use chaotic surge for his charge attack. Glaive Fist uses the blast shape invocation Eldritch Glaive to make his Eldritch Blast a melee touch attack. Glaive Fist chooses to deliver the melee touch attack as an unarmed strike. Glaive usually uses Vitrolic Blast to avoid spell resistance.

If up against a caster or another opponent he believes will try to retreat Glaive will take a swift action to switch to Thicket of Blades. If he is outnumbered or near death Glaive will use a swift action to switch to Immortal Fortitude, he will then try and switch Dark One's Luck to fortitude saves as quickly as possible.

While Thicket of Blades is up, any movement within Glaive Fist's reach provokes an attack of opportunity. Nobody within Glaive's threat range can cast defensively. If someone does move within Glaive's threat range, Glaive will use an attack of opportunity to trip his opponent.

Glaive has multiple methods for keeping himself healed, and can give himself extra actions with White Raven Tactics. If working with a group Glaive can switch over to Tactics of the Wolf and use Defensive Rebuke to protect his allies.

Glaive's main goal in combat is to disable enemy movement and then close with a charge. Once within melee range Glaive tries to disable enemy movement to allow himself to keep making full attacks. Glaive tries to use invisibility and tentacles to insure that his enemies are flat-footed letting him hit better.

If an enemy has an incredibly high armor class Glaive will switch over to just using Eldritch Glaive without unarmed strikes. While he is unable to use his martial abilities, he only needs a touch attack to hit.

Glaive Fist
Warforged Crusader 20 // Warlock 20
Str:14 Dex:12 Con:12 Int:12 Wis:10 Cha:14
Stat Increases: Str: 16, Dex:16, Con 12, Int 13, Wis 10, Cha 14
Item Increases: Str 22, Dex 23, Con 20, Int 13, Wis 10, Cha 20 (144k)

+20 BAB, +12 Fort, + 6 Reflex, +12 Will
+17 Fort, +12 Reflex, +15 Will (+5 to one), Mettle
20d10, (4 + Int)x23

Feats:
Improved Unarmed Strike
Willing Deformity
Deformity Tall
Combat Reflexes
Combat Expertise
Improved Trip
Mage Slayer

Battle Fist: 1d8 unarmed strike (2,600)


Eldritch Blast 9d6
Detect Magic
3 Least Invocations
3 Lesser Invocations
3 Greater Invocations
3 Dark Invocations
DR Cold Iron 5
Fiendish resilience 5
Imbue Item
Deceive Item

Steely resolve 30
Smite 2/day
Mettle
Die Hard
Zealous Surge
Indomitable Soul
Furious Counterstrike





Stances:
Immortal Fortitude
Thicket of Blades
Tactics of the Wolf
Leading the Charge

Maneuvers Readied:
Strike of Righteous Vitality
Rallying Strike
Foehammer
Tide of Chaos
White Raven Tactics
Divine Surge

Maneuvers:
White Raven Tactics
Leading the Attack
White Raven Strike
White Raven Hammer

Crusader's Strike (1d6+5) No Prereq
Defensive Rebuke (If attack other in melee aoo) One Prereq
Divine Surge (+8d8) One Prereq
Foehammer (+2d6 ignore DR) No Prereq
Rallying Strike (allies 3d6+15 heal) Two Prereq
Revitalizing Strike (3d6+10 heal) One Prereq
Strike of Righteous Vitality (HEAL) Three Prereq
Tide of Chaos (+8 attack, +4d6 damage, conceal 1 round)
Daunting Strike

Maneuvers Readied:
Strike of Righteous Vitality
Rallying Strike
Foehammer
Tide of Chaos
White Raven Tactics
Divine Surge

Invocations:
Least:
Eldritch Glaive
Dark One's Luck
Devil's Sight
Darkness

Lesser:
Weighty Utterance
Fell Flight
Walk Unseen

Greater:
Chilling Tentacles
Vitriolic Blast
Devour Magic

Dark:
Retributive Invisibility
Dark Foresight

Chronos
2008-03-03, 11:27 PM
OK, I've got it. Since just having two classes to choose from is too boring, I'll build an invoker without using either of those two classes. I'm not sure whether this is technically allowed, but it is a build designed around use of at-will spell-like abilities.

Madame Outvoker:
Succubus LA 6 / RHD 6 / Rogue 1 / Psychic Rogue 1 / Sneak Attack Fighter 1 / Spellthief 1 / Assassin 4 // Wizard (Conjurer) 10 / Loremaster 6 / Wizard 2 / Ninja 2

Starting ability scores: Str 10, Dex 10, Con 12, Int 22, Wis 12, Cha 34
Minimum playable level: 12
Cheese points: Level dips, ignoring multiclassing penalties

{table=head]ECL | Left class | Right class | Feats | Other abilities
1 | LA 1 | Conjurer 1 | Skill Focus: Knowledge (Religion), Scribe Scroll | Summon Familiar
2 | LA 2 | Conjurer 2 | |
3 | LA 3 | Conjurer 3 | Acidic Splatter |
4 | LA 4 | Conjurer 4
5 | LA 5 | Conjurer 5 | Heighten Spell
6 | LA 6 | Conjurer 6 | Fiery Burst
7 | Outsider 1 | Conjurer 7 | |Succubus traits
8 | Outsider 2 | Conjurer 8
9 | Outsider 3 | Conjurer 9 | Minor Shapeshift
10 | Outsider 4 | Conjurer 10 | Craft Wand
11 | Outsider 5 | Loremaster 1 | | Weapon Trick
12 | Outsider 6 | Loremaster 2 | Summon Elemental | Lore
13 | Rogue 1 | Loremaster 3 | Invisible Needle | Applicable Knowledge, Trapfinding, Sneak Attack 1d6
14 | PsiRogue 1 | Loremaster 4 | | Bonus language, Sneak Attack 2d6
15 | Sneak Attack Fighter 1 | Loremaster 5 | Magic Sensitive |Dodge Trick, Sneak Attack 3d6
16 | Spellthief 1 | Loremaster 6 | | Greater Lore, Steal Spell, Sneak Attack 4d6
17 | Assassin 1 | Conjurer 11 | | Death Attack, Sneak Attack 5d6
18 | Assassin 2 | Conjurer 12 | Clap of Thunder | uncanny dodge
19 | Assassin 3 | Ninja 1 | | Sneak Attack 6d6
20 | Assassin 4 | Ninja 2 | |[/table]

Typical spells prepared:
9th: Heightened Mage Armor, Heightened Acid Splash, Heightened Summon Monster III, Heightened Lesser Sonic Orb
4th: Heightened Alter Self
3rd: Heightened Read Magic

At-will spell-like abilities:
charm monster
detect good
detect thoughts
ethereal jaunt (self plus 50 pounds of objects only)
suggestion
greater teleport (self plus 50 pounds of objects only)
Acidic Splatter: 9d6 ranged touch plus possible Sneak Attack and Sudden Strike, 45 foot range
Fiery Burst: 9d6 5-foot-radius burst, range 30 feet
Minor Shapeshift: Swift action to gain one of a variety of benefits, including +20 temporary HP, +5 speed, or +2 damage
Summon Elemental: Huge, any element (one at a time)
Invisible Needle: 9d4 ranged (not touch) force attack, plus possible Sneak Attack and Sudden Strike, 45 foot range
Magic Sensitive: continual Detect Magic
Clap of Thunder: 9d6 melee touch attack plus possible Sneak Attack and Sudden Strike, Fort save or deafen

Other unlimited-use abilities:
50' flight
Change Shape (small or medium humanoids)
Energy Drain (kiss)
Tongues
Death Attack

Notable items: Adamantium full plate and tower shield. This gives an 85% spell failure chance, but she never actually casts spells anyway, so doesn't care.
Headband of Intellect +6, needed to have four different 9th-level spells prepared
Ring of Telekinesis, for yet another at-will spell-like

avr
2008-03-05, 03:52 AM
"Feel the Power of a Dragon!!!" (in a high, Mickey Mouse voice)

Name: Feel the Power
Dragonfire Adept 20 // Pixie LA +4 / Sorcerer 16

Starting Ability Scores: STR 8, DEX 22, CON 16, INT 16, WIS 12, CHA 20 (level ups into CON)
Minimum Playable Level: 5
Cheese points: Nada

Pixie (Permanent Greater Invis, etc - see MM)
1: Dragonfire Adept 1 // LA +1: Flyby Attack
2: Dragonfire Adept 2 // LA +2
3: Dragonfire Adept 3 // LA +3: Ability Focus (breath weapon)
4: Dragonfire Adept 4 // LA +4
5: Dragonfire Adept 5 // Sorcerer 1
6: Dragonfire Adept 6 // Sorcerer 2: Draconic Heritage (Green)
7: Dragonfire Adept 7 // Sorcerer 3
8: Dragonfire Adept 8 // Sorcerer 4
9: Dragonfire Adept 9 // Sorcerer 5: Green Dragon Lineage
10: Dragonfire Adept 10 // Sorcerer 6
11: Dragonfire Adept 11 // Sorcerer 7
12: Dragonfire Adept 12 // Sorcerer 8: Rapid Metamagic
13: Dragonfire Adept 13 // Sorcerer 9
14: Dragonfire Adept 14 // Sorcerer 10
15: Dragonfire Adept 15 // Sorcerer 11: Quicken Spell
16: Dragonfire Adept 16 // Sorcerer 12
17: Dragonfire Adept 17 // Sorcerer 13
18: Dragonfire Adept 18 // Sorcerer 14: Widen Supernatural Ability
19: Dragonfire Adept 19 // Sorcerer 15
20: Dragonfire Adept 20 // Sorcerer 16

Invocations:
(Least) 1: Endure Exposure, 3: Magic Insight
(Lesser) 6: Frightful Presence, 8: Voracious Dispelling
(Greater) 11: Chilling Fog, 13: Terrifying Roar
(Dark) 16: Instill Vulnerability, 18: Energy Immunity

Breaths:
2: Lightning Breath
5: Slow Breath
10: Sleep Breath
15: Force Breath
20: Fivefold Breath of Tiamat

Offensive:
The Green Dragon Lineage feat lets you impose penalties to Will Saves, like those caused by your Sleep breath for example. As a sorcerer use metabreath spells like Blinding breath & its successors in the Draconomicon.

Defensive:
SR of 15 + class levels, permanently on greater invisibility, DR 10/cold iron, good flight (including flyby attack here, note your breath weapon is a standard action), great DEX - pixies are quite hard to kill in this variety of gestalt. Remember to cast Endure Exposure on your aliies before combat, it lasts all day and protects them from your breath weapon.

Weaknesses:
Poor base attack and small size mean that you do not want to be grappled. Therefore, Dimension Door is a must when you get 4th level spells at character level 12, even before metabreath spells. Otherwise you're pretty good IMO.

I didn't spend that long putting this together, there's probably a caster prestige class you could aim for which doesn't cost too many feats or any caster levels (you want 8th level metabreath spells, this makes a fine capstone ability at L20.)

Kurald Galain
2008-03-05, 04:03 AM
OK, I've got it. Since just having two classes to choose from is too boring, I'll build an invoker without using either of those two classes. I'm not sure whether this is technically allowed, but it is a build designed around use of at-will spell-like abilities.
That was a neat idea. But I'm surprised there aren't more prestige classes that grant SLAs.

Cuddly
2008-03-05, 04:11 AM
Dragon Pacts have you exchange spell slots for SLAs. From Dragon Magic.

avr
2008-03-05, 04:36 AM
Dragonmarked Heir and Heir of Syberis give SLAs, but not at-will ones.

Duke of URL
2008-03-05, 07:45 AM
ENTRIES NOW CLOSED, PLEASE DO NOT ADD OR EDIT ENTRIES AFTER THIS TIME

Watch this space for voting info...

Chronos
2008-03-05, 09:25 PM
That was a neat idea. But I'm surprised there aren't more prestige classes that grant SLAs.If I knew 'em, I'd have used 'em. But I don't, so I didn't. Of course, that was the reason I went with Succubus instead of human, because they so many at-will SLAs.

ShneekeyTheLost
2008-03-05, 10:12 PM
I'm surprised no one took advantage of the inherent cheeze of combining Warlock with Rogue...

The Gilded Duke
2008-03-05, 10:38 PM
I considered the slightly cheesier Lurk / Warlock, able to heal back his con damage, able to sneak attack constructs, able to sneak attack undead, and so on, but in the end a Crusader Warlock Warforged who never ran out of abilities was so much more appealing.

Chronos
2008-03-06, 12:05 AM
I'm surprised no one took advantage of the inherent cheeze of combining Warlock with Rogue...Kurald Galain did, in the very first entry. But he also used a bunch of other sneak attack classes, to get a better SA progression than any single class (as, for that matter, did I, though I didn't have any Warlock). Unless you're talking about the rogue's other features, but using those with Warlock isn't particularly cheesy, just very efficient.

And Gilded Duke, you do know that we're allowed multiple entries, right? You could have done a lurk and your crusader both.

ShneekeyTheLost
2008-03-06, 10:03 AM
Kurald Galain did, in the very first entry. But he also used a bunch of other sneak attack classes, to get a better SA progression than any single class (as, for that matter, did I, though I didn't have any Warlock). Unless you're talking about the rogue's other features, but using those with Warlock isn't particularly cheesy, just very efficient.

And Gilded Duke, you do know that we're allowed multiple entries, right? You could have done a lurk and your crusader both.

Actually, I chose to not enter this particular contest. Juan was for Army of One, and I never got to finish him either. I just didn't have time to make a proper build for entry submission. And I can't compete with 100+d6 damage/round.

Mr. Friendly
2008-03-06, 10:09 AM
Impeccable Invoker - Feel the Power

Huh? - Unnamed DFA

Party Animal - Zxx...Zyxxx... that unpronouncable one.

Gouda - Cheesewrought Wraith

Chronos
2008-03-06, 03:54 PM
There's no rule against it, but most folks have been voluntarily choosing not to. Do as you will.

Duke of URL
2008-03-11, 09:07 AM
VOTING NOW OPEN

Oops... I forgot to do this last week, sorry all. The voting is now open and will be open through 9 AM PST on Friday, March 14.

Please vote in-thread for any or all of the following categories:

Impeccable Invoker - The build that best meets the challenge goals listed in post #1

Huh? - The most unusual race/class/feat combination that still meets the challenge guidelines

Party Animal - The build you'd most like to see a party member play (or even play yourself!)

Gouda - Cheesus Maximus. What your DM would insta-ban if you tried it.

Eligible entries:

"Flame Of Anor" (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3990257&postcount=5)
(Unnamed, Dragon Dragonfire Adept) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3991212&postcount=9)
"Zargyl" (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3993426&postcount=19)
"Nyr" (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3994427&postcount=20)
"The 4-Lock" (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3998385&postcount=30)
"More Cheese Than You Can Shake A Stick At" (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3999885&postcount=32)
"Faustus The Civil Servant" (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4000877&postcount=34)
"Sir Craftalot" (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4001843&postcount=35)
"Zxyxxy't the Unpronounceable" (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4002289&postcount=37)
"Cheesewrought Wraith" (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4009669&postcount=42)
"Glaive Fist" (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4010893&postcount=44)
"Madame Outvoker" (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4018563&postcount=45)
"Feel the Power" (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4023945&postcount=46)

_Puppetmaster_
2008-03-11, 11:47 AM
Impeccable Invocer: Cheesewrought Wraith



Gouda: Chessewrought Wraith

avr
2008-03-11, 05:23 PM
Impeccable Invoker: The Flame of Anor impresses here. Though I would vote for his low-cheese option (sans-Legacy Champion) if possible. He doesn't need those Legacy Champion levels.

Huh?: Madame Outvoker - besides the whole how to be an invoker without being an invoker, how often do you see anyone prepare a heightened Read Magic spell?

Party Animal: Glaive Fist, crusaders play well with others.

Gouda: Cheesewrought Wraith

Draz74
2008-03-11, 07:21 PM
Impeccable Invoker - Glaive Fist

Party Animal - Feel the Power
(but what happened to Entangling Exhalation?)

Gouda - Cheesewrought Wraith

Draz74
2008-03-11, 07:24 PM
Impeccable Invoker - Glaive Fist

Party Animal - Feel the Power
(but what happened to Entangling Exhalation?)

Gouda - Cheesewrought Wraith

Draz74
2008-03-11, 07:26 PM
Impeccable Invoker - Glaive Fist

Party Animal - Feel the Power
(but what happened to Entangling Exhalation?)

Gouda - Cheesewrought Wraith

Chronos
2008-03-11, 11:40 PM
Impeccable Invoker: Glaive Fist. It's going to be very tough to take down, and it can fight effectively for 14,400 rounds a day. Plus I like its choice of invokations.

Party Animal: Feel the Power. He sounds like he'd be fun to play next to. I think it was the Mickey Mouse voice that put him over the top.

Huh?: Cheesewrought Wraith, mostly for the 16 LA worth of templates.

Gouda: Flame of Anor. Legacy Champion is one of those PrCs that advances any class feature, right? And you're using that with Hellfire Warlock? That, combined with the Naberius binding, is too much for my tastes. A shame, because I would ordinarily like a build using all those sneaky classes.

Beren One-Hand
2008-03-12, 12:29 AM
Before I vote I had a few questions....

The Flame of Arnor has some Psychic feats, but I don't see any source that would allow him to take them. What am I missing?

I don't have either source for Glaive Fist (ToB or the Eldritch Glaive invocation), but I was under the impression that the blast shape made a Glaive-like weapon of your Eldritch Blast, which you could use in a full attack (and it would be a melee touch attack since it is actually Eldritch energy). This wouldn't work with the Fist's stated tactic of using the blast channeled through his unarmed attack. How does the Eldritch Glaive invocation actually work?

The Gilded Duke
2008-03-12, 01:03 AM
Eldritch Glaive is in Dragon Magic page 82

Eldritch Glaive makes your Eldritch blast a melee touch attack. It also lets you make multiple Eldritch Blasts based on your base attack bonus. Glaive Fist uses the rules for delivering a melee touch attack as an unarmed strike. Eldritch Glaive appears to be a glaive, and acts as if you had reach, but is not a glaive. (Glaive Fist has reach with his unarmed strikes)

If it did function as a Glaive the build would actually be simpler and more powerful making all attacks as touch attacks (Like a Pyrokinetist). Instead eldritch blasts effected by eldritch glaive are a series of melee touch attacks. Complete Arcane outlines rules for delivering melee touch attacks through an unarmed strike. Basically instead of a touch attack you make a normal unarmed strike, if it hits you do damage and apply the touch attack.

Making melee touch attacks as unarmed strikes allows Glaive to add his strength to damage and use martial abilities through his strikes.

Beren One-Hand
2008-03-12, 02:57 AM
Eldritch Glaive is in Dragon Magic page 82

Eldritch Glaive makes your Eldritch blast a melee touch attack. It also lets you make multiple Eldritch Blasts based on your base attack bonus. Glaive Fist uses the rules for delivering a melee touch attack as an unarmed strike. Eldritch Glaive appears to be a glaive, and acts as if you had reach, but is not a glaive. (Glaive Fist has reach with his unarmed strikes)

If it did function as a Glaive the build would actually be simpler and more powerful making all attacks as touch attacks (Like a Pyrokinetist). Instead eldritch blasts effected by eldritch glaive are a series of melee touch attacks. Complete Arcane outlines rules for delivering melee touch attacks through an unarmed strike. Basically instead of a touch attack you make a normal unarmed strike, if it hits you do damage and apply the touch attack.

Making melee touch attacks as unarmed strikes allows Glaive to add his strength to damage and use martial abilities through his strikes.

Thanks! I thought I had seen it said elsewhere on these forums that it actually created a Glaive-like "weapon", complete with 10' reach and only needing a touch attack to deal the blast damage. Thanks for setting me straight.

Kurald Galain
2008-03-12, 04:04 AM
The Flame of Arnor has some Psychic feats, but I don't see any source that would allow him to take them. What am I missing?
Ah, good catch. The lurk and psychic rogue allow him to take those feats, so they need to be swapped with the level-12 and level-15 feat.

Beren One-Hand
2008-03-12, 10:32 PM
Impeccable Invoker - The 4-Lock : Simple, Easy, and Hit the nail straight upon the head.

Huh? - Madame Outvoker : Was a close tie for Party Animal as well... of all the builds this is the only one I'd consider playing above the one I submitted.

Party Animal - Sir Craftalot : Who wouldn't want a prodigious crafter amongst their party?

Gouda - "Cheesewrought Wraith" : Something just seems wrong about taking [Epic] feats at level 6 :smalltongue:

Duke of URL
2008-03-13, 11:53 AM
Visibility bump... under 24 hours left for voting!

Duke of URL
2008-03-17, 08:56 AM
WINNERS

Impeccable Invoker: Glaive Fist

Huh?: Madame Outvoker

Party Animal: Feel the Power

Gouda: Cheesewrought Wraith

Thanks to those taking the time to vote.