Arcane Sight vs. Invisibility

[Skjaldbakka]

How does Arcane Sight interact with Invisibility? It seems to me that you would be able to pinpoint the location of magically invisible foes automatically.

[Douglas]

Yes, but keep in mind that in D&D "pinpoint" means "locate within a 5 foot square." Invisible foes would still have total concealment from you and non area attacks would have a 50% miss chance against them.

[Skjaldbakka]

Thanks. I was, in fact, aware of the definition of pinpoint, btw. Hence the usage of the term. That is pretty much my thoughts on how it would work. Having a permanced arcane sight + glitterdust on my spell list should do the trick, w/o needing to take See Invisibility. I can swap out detect magic at some point too.

[Talic]

True, that seems like a bit of overkill, though, when a permanent See Invisibility would do the same job.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

But he'd have Glitterdust no matter what, and if he's a sorcerer(as it sounds like he is) the spell slot is better used on Arcane Sight, especially because of the other benefits.

[Skjaldbakka]

I probably won't have permancey for awhile. Should I actually take permancy, or try to get scrolls/NPC casters?

[Talic]

Point there. Even so, by the time you have Arcane Sight permanencied, you should have the ability to have True Seeing.

[lord_khaine]

yeah but true seing can be a bit expensive to use every time you are feeling a bit paranoid.

[Jack_Simth]

I probably won't have permancey for awhile. Should I actually take permancy, or try to get scrolls/NPC casters?
Limited Wish can duplicate Permanency at no additional XP cost. Seriously - Limited Wish costs 300 xp, or whatever the duplicated spell costs, whichever is higher. On the list of spells that can be made Permanent, the lowest XP cost is 500 - so whenever you use Limited Wish to duplicate Permanency, you use Permanency's cost, not Limited Wish's.

[Person_Man]

Also, mundane chalk dust or flour. Buy a five pound bag. If you fight an invisible enemy you can open it and throw it on the ground. It'll cover everything in the area. Even if it doesn't cover your enemy, you can still see his footprints on the ground to locate his square.

You can also just make a Listen check. Unless he's actively trying to Move Silently, the check DC to pinpoint his square is pretty low.

[ColdBrew]

Actually, depending on how you interpret Arcane Sight, you might see a magic aura in the shape of a person, giving them effectively no concealment, but hiding their identity.

[Skjaldbakka]

Also, mundane chalk dust or flour. Buy a five pound bag. If you fight an invisible enemy you can open it and throw it on the ground. It'll cover everything in the area. Even if it doesn't cover your enemy, you can still see his footprints on the ground to locate his square.

You can also just make a Listen check. Unless he's actively trying to Move Silently, the check DC to pinpoint his square is pretty low.

I did mention that I have glitterdust, right? Also, 8 wisdom, no ranks in listen.

[BRC]

I did mention that I have glitterdust, right? Also, 8 wisdom, no ranks in listen.
Glitterdust is a waste, flour and paint work just as well.

[Skjaldbakka]

Glitterdust is an AoE Blindness spell. You do realize this, right?

[BRC]

Ah right, I was thinking Dust of Appearance. Sorry. I'ma sit in the corner now.

[Fuzzy_Juan]

i would think that you would see the outline of a person radiating illusion magic plus whatever other magic items they possess glowing freely in your magic sight. As such, I would think that arcane sight would be a quick and easy way to know the exact location of an invisible person.

not sure if RAW specifically state the interaction or how the aura is precieved. RAW may say that you can only be sure which 'square' something is in...which to me seems kinda silly. I would think that if someone has a personal enchantment, then they glow as a person and not as a 'square' At the minimum you could determine the center of emanation and that is good enough to strike...perhaps with penalty, but enough to say 'that is my target'.

Now...someone invisible with magic all over their body with rings, boots, armor, weapons, etc...I would think that it would be quite easy to determine where they were and what they were doing.

Now...an invisible stalker...arcane sight won't help you...also, area effect illusions, or personal illusions against you (the one with arcane sight) might not be able to be detected with arcane sight. People made invisibly with phantasmal terrain would not show up with arcane sight as the whole area would scream illusion, and even if they were given invisibility you would have to notice a difference in the overlapping auras of illusion. Also, a mind effectine 'invisibility' spell would not be detectable as you would only notice that a spell was on you and not any other person. The same goes for someone who wraps your head in an illusionary picture box...to you, the entirety of your precieved world would be 'illusionary' and anything beyond the illusionary box around your head would be 'invisible' since it never reached your eyes.

In addition to that, simple ways of blinding 'you' would render arcane sight worthless I think...blindness, dirt in eyes, maybe 'darkness'.

One thing that always bugged me about arcane sight vs. spells...is displacement. Do you see both? Just one? do you see the image and know it is an illusion or that it has been displaced...do you even see the 'person' as having magic on them? It could be said the magic is on their image and not them...or since the spell is cast on a subject, it might be that you detect the spell on them, and the image is non-magical or also has the aura. That one confused me.

[Collin152]

This thread reminds me of Seinfeld.
It does other things!
Keep that in mind when arguig permanent see invisibility over arcane sight.

[Fuzzy_Juan]

ok...two more...if you create the illusion of an invisible stalker...how does it appear to magical sight? Does it appear to 'see invisible' at all since it isn't really invisible...just an illusion of an invisible creature...

and...suppose a person has see invisibility and arcane sight permanized...if someone casts phantasmal terrain in an area with the 'rules' that everything in the field of the illusion would be an overlay of everything in an illusion of what was there except for 'insert person/s here' who were ommited form the illusion and are overlayed in the 'terrain' with illusionary empty space instead of being 'shown' as part of the illusion. How would such a place appear to 'arcane sight' or to 'see invisible' I am thinking that the whole area would be radiating 'illusion school' and even though not able to be seen, the non-illusion covered people would not be subject to see invisible since, they are not invisible. Now...if they had any magic, that might be seen...and true seeing woudl just completely spoil your fun...but would that work? If so...it would be a killer trick to pull against a PC that had those two spells permanized...highly amusing.

[Skjaldbakka]

If so...it would be a killer trick to pull against a PC that had those two spells permanized...highly amusing.

Not really. You wouldn't even get a surprise round out of it, because the PC would know something is up from the illusion aura, and immediately do something. Probably cast true seeing or dispel magic.