Lincoln Osis (BattleTech) vs Master Chief (HALO)

[Haruspex]

On the ground, full armor and standard gear. Master Chief is circa the end of HALO 2 and Lincoln is when he was ilKhan. Should be pretty even, from what I saw in HALO 2 and what I read in the BTech novels. Maybe someone else has another opinion.

Master Chief: He has the rechargable shield from the MJOLNIR armor, and the alien sword, so he could do a number on Osis. He has a good supply of guns as well, though only the stronger ones have a good chance of hurting the Smoke Jaguar.

Lincoln Osis: No rechargable shield, but assuming standard Elemental armor has a support laser, a claw which can rip off vehicle armor, an anti-personnel weapon, and a pair of short-range high-damage missile launchers on his back. He can jump too, around 90 meters in one bound. If his armor breaks, a sticky liquid will shoot out, pumping painkillers and sealing the wound.

Both can move relatively freely in their armor, so speed shouldn't be a factor.

[Storm Bringer]

Prob the Chief, espcialy if he gets close. The cheifs armour is much less restrictive that Elemental armour, and if he has a engery sword or gravity
hammer, he could easily wipe the floor with Lincoln.

At range, it may go a bit better for the jag, but the Chiefs better range of weaponry would agian counr. A sniper bullet to the visor, a Rocket up the jackise, chest shot with either a spartan laser or the sentry done gun, a clip form a Brute shot... you get the idea.

As much as i love battletech, this ones going to the Chief.

[Haruspex]

Prob the Chief, espcialy if he gets close. The cheifs armour is much less restrictive that Elemental armour, and if he has a engery sword or gravity
hammer, he could easily wipe the floor with Lincoln.

At range, it may go a bit better for the jag, but the Chiefs better range of weaponry would agian counr. A sniper bullet to the visor, a Rocket up the jackise, chest shot with either a spartan laser or the sentry done gun, a clip form a Brute shot... you get the idea.

As much as i love battletech, this ones going to the Chief.

Yeah, BattleTech weapons have really short ranges. Osis needs to get within optimum range for his own guns while keeping away from the close combat stuff that the Chief has access to. So one vote for the Chief. Osis, you must live (even though you already died).

[Swordguy]

Yeah, BattleTech weapons have really short ranges. Osis needs to get within optimum range for his own guns while keeping away from the close combat stuff that the Chief has access to. So one vote for the Chief. Osis, you must live (even though you already died).

You're aware that the ranges in the tabletop game are explicity stated as being an abstraction so the game can be played on a tabletop and not on a gym floor, right? The rule of thumb is to multiply the tabletop range by a factor of 20. That produces a heavy machinegun with a 2000 meter range (equivalent to the real-life M2HB .50cal).

That said, I give the advantages in speed, mobility, combat prowess, and fanboyism to the Master Chief, whilst Osis gets range, protection and firepower. Elemental suits can take direct hits from full-on BattleMech scale weaponry - the Master Chief doesn't have anything that can reasonably match that excepting the Rocket Launcher (equivalent to a single SRM - 2 points of damage), the Spartan Laser (look about equal to the Elemental's small laser - 3 points of damage), and the Fuel Rod Gun (about equal to an infantry LAW - 1 point of damage). The Energy Sword I don't know how to call. For reference, the Elemental can take 10 points of CBT-scale damage plus 1 point representing the Elemental inside the armor.

Master Chief's armor is about equivalent in size and protection to a Light Exoskeleton in CBT. It's protective (3 points of CBT-scale armor plus 1 more point representing the trooper inside), but not nearly as much as the Elemental suit. It's a lot more mobile for sure, though. Elementals are deceptively fast - they have a ground speed of 32kph (20mph), and, as noted, a 90-meter jump capacity with a Delta-v of 9m/sec (that's a whole lot, btw). I'm pretty sure Osis can run down the Master Chief.

For Master Chief to win, the best bet will be to survive through the 2 salvos of SRMs that he Elemental suit carries (2 points per missile, 2 missiles per salvo) and get in close. He has armor to shrug off 1 solid hit, plus the bubble shield gives him 20 seconds of invulnerability. I'll call it as a win if he gets in close (though the Elemental suit isn't as restrictive as some think, it's certainly more so than the MJOLNIR suit), but getting there could be tricky.

[Timberwolf]

With the equipment stated, Master Chef, sorry, Chief takes it.

On the other hand, Osis is a Smoke Jag loser who, in a 1 on 1, no armour fight lost to Victor Steiner Davion (I will grant that when Osis challenged him, he probably wasn't expecting Victor to hop out of his mech with a katana that the Drac's had given him but still...).

In a no armour, unarmed fight, my money'd be on Osis but with the use of weapons, well, Master Chief takes it, simply because his weapons are 20 years newer in conception. If Battletech were upgraded to more realistic ranges (800 metre Gauss Rifle in the Mechwarrior PC games...) then my money'd be on Osis, but as things stand, I gotta go with Chiefy unless Osis can use the jump capability to get close and then use his sheer size and strength to rip the Spartan apart. I don't think that is too likely though.

Osis is a big target and Chiefy never misses.

[Haruspex]

You're aware that the ranges in the tabletop game are explicity stated as being an abstraction so the game can be played on a tabletop and not on a gym floor, right? The rule of thumb is to multiply the tabletop range by a factor of 20. That produces a heavy machinegun with a 2000 meter range (equivalent to the real-life M2HB .50cal).

I did hear about that rule of thumb from somewhere, but it seems that the novels and other fluff have followed the game range religiously. I've never heard of a gauss rifle firing 13 kilometers for example (but it would make sense if it did). My assumptions were based on the 1-hex/30m conversion rate. If we use the 20x rule, I would definitely call the match in Osis's favor.

EDIT: A quick search on Wikipedia seems to support your argument. A real-life MG can even reach 7 km with special ammunition. The only problem with 20x is that if it is applied to every single BattleTech weapon we get some unintended effects on the fluff.

The speed of battles is one. The range gap between an LRM carrier and an Elemental can be covered by the Elemental in 3 minutes following 30m/hex. This is done based on the established speed/MP conversion. If you keep the unit MP and readjust the absolute speed when using 20x, the Elemental and any other infantry can cover 600 meters on the ground in one turn.

So the question is how long does a turn take? Currently it comes to 10 seconds per turn. Under 20x it is 200 seconds, 3 minutes 20 seconds unless you want to 20x absolute speed as well, allowing an infantryman to move 108 km/h (!).

[Swordguy]

I did hear about that rule of thumb from somewhere, but it seems that the novels and other fluff have followed the game range religiously. I've never heard of a gauss rifle firing 13 kilometers for example (but it would make sense if it did). My assumptions were based on the 1-hex/30m conversion rate. If we use the 20x rule, I would definitely call the match in Osis's favor.

EDIT: A quick search on Wikipedia seems to support your argument. A real-life MG can even reach 7 km with special ammunition. The only problem with 20x is that if it is applied to every single BattleTech weapon we get some unintended effects on the fluff.

The speed of battles is one. The range gap between an LRM carrier and an Elemental can be covered by the Elemental in 3 minutes following 30m/hex. This is done based on the established speed/MP conversion. If you keep the unit MP and readjust the absolute speed when using 20x, the Elemental and any other infantry can cover 600 meters on the ground in one turn.

So the question is how long does a turn take? Currently it comes to 10 seconds per turn. Under 20x it is 200 seconds, 3 minutes 20 seconds unless you want to 20x absolute speed as well, allowing an infantryman to move 108 km/h (!).

Turns are the same length.

Statements from TPTB on the Classic Battletech forums have basically made it clear that, while the range on the weapons is "actually" 20x those in the tabletop game, the armor and integral defensive EW of Mechs makes it necessary to be that close to both hit and do damage against said defenses - which is how they justify their fiction. The unintended fact that anti-infantry can only work out to a very short range is a consequence of the game being about BattleMechs - everything else is a secondary concern in the ruleset, and were not present in the original game.

In short, since the original game consisted of just Mechs, the fluff was needed only to justify the performance of the weapons against said Mechs (which is why you get such short ranges). Everything else was tacked-on later, but the designers deliberately didn't redesign the rules, since they worked so well on Mech-on Mech action, which was the focus of the rules anyway.

[Haruspex]

Turns are the same length.

Statements from TPTB on the Classic Battletech forums have basically made it clear that, while the range on the weapons is "actually" 20x those in the tabletop game, the armor and integral defensive EW of Mechs makes it necessary to be that close to both hit and do damage against said defenses - which is how they justify their fiction. The unintended fact that anti-infantry can only work out to a very short range is a consequence of the game being about BattleMechs - everything else is a secondary concern in the ruleset, and were not present in the original game.

In short, since the original game consisted of just Mechs, the fluff was needed only to justify the performance of the weapons against said Mechs (which is why you get such short ranges). Everything else was tacked-on later, but the designers deliberately didn't redesign the rules, since they worked so well on Mech-on Mech action, which was the focus of the rules anyway.

So the absolute maximum range is 20x the effective combat range, is that what you're saying? :smallconfused: If so, I understand. In fact, it is closer to what I had in mind. I thought it was funny that hi-tech 'Mech cannons had a shorter range than a sniper rifle. Thanks for clearing it up Swordguy.

[Swordguy]

So the absolute maximum range is 20x the effective combat range, is that what you're saying? :smallconfused: If so, I understand. In fact, it is closer to what I had in mind. I thought it was funny that hi-tech 'Mech cannons had a shorter range than a sniper rifle. Thanks for clearing it up Swordguy.


Exactly. There's a whole variety of factors that apply in BattleMech combat that don't apply here, by the way. Master Chief doesn't have a built-in ECM, for example (all Mechs do - and some Mechs have a massive ECM system called a Guardian ECM) to make it harder to hit him. That's why we can apply the full ranges in this conflict.