Specialization Tips.

[TempusCCK]

So, I'm playing a wizard, and though I've played them before, I've never specialized, I'd like to try it out.

What experiences do other people have with specialization. Is it worth it? What do you choose? What do you ban?

(First person who links me to LogicNinja get's a punch in the head, I know what he says, I want peoples actual experience in doing such.)

The character is starting at 1 and going until I tire of him or he dies, so please take that into consideration as well.

Core and most other books allowed, depending on situation.

Thank you all in advance.

[Cuddly]

I hear the ban three schools, specialize in one other isn't nearly as crippling as the char-op boards make it out to be. Sure, it might cripple Shrodinger-Wizard, but he doesn't actually exist. Getting 3 extra spells to cast/ day is quite delicious, and will balance out the times you can't cast the right spell for the right job (but really, scrolls? srsly, get the bard to UMD whatever schools you ban).

You could, if you really wanted to cheese out, specialize in shadow spells, and pretty much cast everything, all the time.

[Illiterate Scribe]

It's almost always worth it for the bonus spells.

The most popular specialisations are (in no order)


Divination - the scrying/detecting style is just as good in practice as in theory, even if it's a little hard to pull off. There's also some of the niftiest spells there.
Conjuration - possibly the most important school, the 'immediate jaunt' conjurer is hideously good, with Int bonus/day 10ft steps as immediate actions.
Abjuration - mostly because people like the abjuration master specialist.


I'd ban evocation and enchantment. The former has mostly poor spells in it (that can be replicated, if necessary, by shadow evocation), and the latter is too easily defended against.

Also, you'll find this thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18500) handy. :smallamused:

[ZeroNumerous]

Divination - the scrying/detecting style is just as good in practice as in theory, even if it's a little hard to pull off. There's also some of the niftiest spells there.


Very worth while if you go regular(unfocused) specialist/master specialist with Complete Champion's spontaneous divination casting. Just ban Evocation and learn Shadow Evocation in it's place.

[ColdBrew]

Not LogicNinja (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=952899)

[TempusCCK]

-Punches Illiterate Scribe in the head with all the energy that could have been used doing something productive while reading LogicNinja's Guide several hundred times!-

I refuse to ban Evocation, specializing is a no-go, but banning? You know how many times a Magic Missle has saved my butt at level 1?

Part of that is just to spite LogicNinja and Batman fanboys.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

(First person who links me to LogicNinja get's a punch in the head, I know what he says, I want peoples actual experience in doing such.)

Wow, Someone got punched already...

Personally, I tend to avoid specializing. After all, the whole point of being a Wizard, as opposed to being a Sorcerer, is to have ultimate flexability. Specializing kinda defeats the purpose, in my opinion.

And as for the Shadow Evocation thing, it's a 4th level spell (or 8th for Greater) that duplicates lower level spells, and gives an additional will save to knock off a hefty chunk of the effect.

Having said that, it really depends on what sort of wizard you're looking at being.

One of my favorite specialists is Illusionist, particularly when paired with Rogue/Unseen Seer/Arcane Trickster. Then again, I've always been a big fan of the Grey Mouser. For banned schools, Evocation really was sacrificable for this build. After all, I sneak in, kill stuffs, and sneak out. Flashy stuff like fireballs are not in the contract. I can sneak attack with the Conjuration series of Orbs if necessary. Enchantment was really kinda necessary for this build, since it's the quickest and easiest way to dispatch guards, so I banned Necromancy instead. Sure, loosing Enervation sucks, but watching as a nobleman is killed by his own trusty guard is just priceless.

[Mr. Friendly]

Isn't there a class substitution in RotW to let elves basically be specialists with no barred schools or something ridiculous like that?

Anyway, I second the votes for Conjuror and Diviner. Diviner is nice since you only have to bar one school.

Conjuror is nice because it can completely replicate (mostly) the entire Evocation school, so you are free to bar it.

Other choices to bar: Necro and Illusion. You *might* pull off barring Trans, but there is a lot of good stuff in there... Illusion is a nice school, but.. meh... so much stuff can see through it or not care... why bother. Necro, again immunities. A nice school, but you can live without it.

On the Illusionist though... if you go this route RoS is almost mandatory with it's incredibly awesome and broken PrC... whats it called... aaaaargggh.... Anyway, its an illusionist PrC that makes your shadow stuff real.

[Illiterate Scribe]

-Punches Illiterate Scribe in the head with all the energy that could have been used doing something productive while reading LogicNinja's Guide several hundred times!-

I refuse to ban Evocation, specializing is a no-go, but banning? You know how many times a Magic Missle has saved my butt at level 1?

Part of that is just to spite LogicNinja and Batman fanboys.

Evidently the smiley was overlooked.

You're much better off with conjuration over evocation. Necromancy's another possibility to ban, but then you miss out on enervation and suchlike.

[valadil]

I like specializing at low levels, but later on you miss out on more and more.

Specializing in illusion and relying on shadow spells is fun. It makes banning evocation a no brainer. Most evocation effects can be duplicated anyway. Keep in mind that shadow conjuration only duplicates conjuration summon and conjuration creation spells. I don't know how many that leaves off the wizards list.

Banning enchantment is pretty easy to get away with. Pretty much every enchantment is a mind affecting will save. You miss out on Tasha's early on, but it really isn't that big a deal.

I often end up banning necro. I'm not sure why. It has a lot of really solid spells in it, but I can usually do without them.

One thing to look out for is that one of your two spells each level has to come from the school you choose. Make sure there are spells of each level that you want. Otherwise you'll just be wasting pages in your spellbook and if you don't have scrolls to scribe from, you'll be wasting precious spells known.

[SamTheCleric]

On the Illusionist though... if you go this route RoS is almost mandatory with it's incredibly awesome and broken PrC... whats it called... aaaaargggh.... Anyway, its an illusionist PrC that makes your shadow stuff real.

The Gnome-Only shadowcraft mage? sooo tasty...

[Telonius]

I hear the ban three schools, specialize in one other isn't nearly as crippling as the char-op boards make it out to be. Sure, it might cripple Shrodinger-Wizard, but he doesn't actually exist.

He both exists and doesn't exist simultaneously.

Sorry, I had to. :smallbiggrin:

Personally I've never played a Specialist wizard. There was one person in my gaming group who did, and he specialized in Divination. It worked reasonably well, neither too nerfed nor more overpowered than Wizard already is.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

I still perfer to ban Evocation. Magic Missile... I'd rather use a Lesser Sonic Orb. Does more damage on average, and no SR. And how often are you going to miss on a touch attack?

[Toliudar]

I've played a number of specialists, seldom uber-optimized, but all perfectly functional. And let's be honest, you're a wizard! If you're not contributing regularly by level 4 or 5, there's something more wrong than your specialization.

The only schools that I think I'd really miss are Abjuration, Conjuration and Transmutation. If you're not going to ban evocation, then I'd definitely go diviner and ban enchantment, if you're looking to optimize.

[Mr. Friendly]

The Gnome-Only shadowcraft mage? sooo tasty...

Yeah that's the one... combines with with some tasty FR Shadow-themed PrCs and feats.... it becomes an unholy abomination.

[SamTheCleric]

In a home-brew world my friend made "generalist" wizards were outlawed. As in, the Arcane Order hunted down rogue wizards who did not specialize. This all happened because the last known generalist wizard became a mage-king and led the world into a dark age.

Was neat flavor wise... and it made me actually think about a specialist. Now that the game is over, I wish I wouldve done more interesting things... like Specializing in Necromancy or Abjuration. Conjurists and Evokers are far too common.

[Person_Man]

Meh, I've DM'd and played specialists and generalists many times over the years, and it's not a huge deal one way or the other.

In general, Specialists are better if your DM tends to have a lot of encounters per game day, if your DM allows many different supplements, and if you're playing with more then one caster in your party.

But if you're playing one or two encounters per game day, and your DM is limiting you to core-ish spells, and/or if you're the only arcane caster, then its usually best to stick with a generalist.

Honestly, I think it all comes down to your preferred style and fluff. With a few important exceptions (Healer, Warmage, possibly the Dread Necromancer) all full casters are powerful enough to hold their own in almost any game. This assumes, of course, that you're an intelligent player who understands how to use metamagic and battlefield control, but I digress.

[Cuddly]

In a home-brew world my friend made "generalist" wizards were outlawed. As in, the Arcane Order hunted down rogue wizards who did not specialize. This all happened because the last known generalist wizard became a mage-king and led the world into a dark age.

Was neat flavor wise... and it made me actually think about a specialist. Now that the game is over, I wish I wouldve done more interesting things... like Specializing in Necromancy or Abjuration. Conjurists and Evokers are far too common.

Neat idea, but entirely unconvincing. "Yeah, when I ban evocation and specialize in divination, I suddenly lose my wizardly powers to move so fast time appears to stop, see into the future, view remote places with magic, kill you with words, gestures, dominate you, turn you into a toad or the most fearsome dragon, fly, burrow, travel to other planes, avoid death, teleport.... Oh, wait, no I don't."

[Solo]

In a home-brew world my friend made "generalist" wizards were outlawed. As in, the Arcane Order hunted down rogue wizards who did not specialize. This all happened because the last known generalist wizard became a mage-king and led the world into a dark age.


But... but... but... specializing makes wizards even more powerful! That's like outlawing private ownership of semiautomatic firearms and replacing them with automatic weaponry!

[SamTheCleric]

I didn't say it made sense... I was just relaying the story... he worked on it for a long time apparently... I wasn't going to question the mechanics. :P

[Draz74]

Isn't there a class substitution in RotW to let elves basically be specialists with no barred schools or something ridiculous like that?

Only for their highest spell level. So it's not as broken as you made it sound. :smallwink:

[mostlyharmful]

There's a lovely run of three feats in the lost empires of faerun that gives you back a single school you've previously banned, fantastic for diviners and makes incantrix even more ludicrous.

[TempusCCK]

So Specialization in Trans, Abjur, or Conjur, or Div, and banning on Evoc, Necro, or Enchant?

I would definately be alright with banning enchant and necro, but which would be the best to specialize in?

[SamTheCleric]

Define "best". I mean, what do YOU want to do?

[Mr. Friendly]

I say Conjuration.

[Solo]

-Punches Illiterate Scribe in the head with all the energy that could have been used doing something productive while reading LogicNinja's Guide several hundred times!-

I refuse to ban Evocation, specializing is a no-go, but banning? You know how many times a Magic Missle has saved my butt at level 1?

Part of that is just to spite LogicNinja and Batman fanboys.

HAHAHA! YOU SIMPLE FOOL! :smalltongue:

[TempusCCK]

Meh, I'm not really asking for anything in particular, just the general opinion of the forum based off of experience.

The character himself would probably be Transmutation/Divination, but I don't want that to mess with peoples opinions.


HAHAHA! YOU SIMPLE FOOL!

Every detractor is one less worshipper for the Cult of Batman. And when he is frail and powerless I will rise up and assume the role of the most powerful being is the universe! BUWAHAHAH!

[Solo]

I shall present to you my counter argument in the form of a HADOKEN!

[Cuddly]

So Specialization in Trans, Abjur, or Conjur, or Div, and banning on Evoc, Necro, or Enchant?

I would definately be alright with banning enchant and necro, but which would be the best to specialize in?

Ban enchant and evoc, if you have to. Necromancy has some really juicy debuffs. I'd specialize in Trans for the extra fly, haste, slow, polymorph, baleful polymorph, disintegrate, and so forth. Abjuration doesn't have nearly enough offense-oriented stuff to make loosing two good schools worth while. Evocation doesn't have anything spectacular in it, other than maybe forcecage, wall of force, and contigency. Conjuration can be cool, especially if you use the orb spells. Then you can actually be an effective blaster.

[Larrin]

I shall present to you my counter argument in the form of a HADOKEN!

Which is an evocation if I've ever seen one....Good thing you didn't ban it!

[Solo]

Which is an evocation if I've ever seen one....Good thing you didn't ban it!

It's not a spell, it's a 1/day SLA obtained by performing a very special ritual.

[Haakon]

I'm currently playing a level 10 (wizard 3/master specialist 7) halfling wizard who is a focused specialist (Conjuration) and has Evocation, Enchantment and Necromancy banned. Necromancy hurt the most, since it has lots of debuff spells, but it was either that or Abjuration (which has tons of useful protective spells and I'm the only caster).

The original plan was to stick to battlefield control spells and stay away from damage based spells (there are tons of them in the conjuration school). Then, I learned the campaign was based around enemies who were mostly immune or resistant to many of the battlefield control effects (either immune to poison (which prevents nauseating them), have SR, can fly over my wall spells or have dispel magic as a spell like ability).

So, right now I memorize a mixture of area of effect debuffs, acid based damage spells and a hand full of buffs for myself.

I like conjuration the best, since it gives you the most options in dealing with anything. Even though save/die and save/suck spells are "the best", I still enjoy rolling hand fulls of d6's at the DM and covering everything unfriendly in acid.

[AslanCross]

I find that the two most powerful schools are Conjuration and Transmutation. Transmutation has buffs and debuffs like haste and slow and very useful (and broken) utility spells like the celerity line and time stop. And disintegrate, for sheer damage.

Conjuration is probably the broadest in terms of capability. It has battlefield control material like the fog line, stinking cloud, Evard's spiked tentacles of forced intrusion black tentacles, and of course, grease. It also has a lot of offensive material (orb spells). And of course, the iconic Conjuration ability to summon creatures. The summon undead line is also Conjuration.

As much as I like Evocation for its iconic offensive spells (magic missile, fireball and lightning bolt), it's the narrowest in terms of capability---apart from its offensive spells, it only has a few odd utility and defensive spells. It should be easily replaced with the shadow evocation line.