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RAGE KING!
2008-02-27, 10:02 PM
What exactly is Gestalt???

DementedFellow
2008-02-27, 10:03 PM
Here. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/gestaltCharacters.htm)

It's like a two-for-one deal.

Pinnacle
2008-02-27, 10:09 PM
gestalt n
1. a configuration, pattern, or organized field having specific properties that cannot be derived from the summation of its component parts; a unified whole.
2. an instance or example of such a unified whole.

Gestalt (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/gestaltCharacters.htm) is a variant rule for building characters. It's for high-powered characters. Everyone chooses two classes for his/her PC, takes the BAB, Base Saves, Hit Die, and skill points from whichever of the two classes has the better value, and gets all of the class skills and class features of both classes at once.
So a level 1 fighter/wizard has a d10 DH, a +1 BAB, +2 base Fort and Will saves, fighter armor and weapon proficiencies (although she'll suffer asf chance for her wizard spells if she actually uses the armor), a fighter bonus feat, summon familiar, and a 1st-level wizard's spellcasting.

[FLUX]
2008-02-27, 10:56 PM
Basically, it's what we all love to hate: awesomeness hailing from brokenness. Use with extreme caution. Also, Druid/Cleric gestalt for epic justice win.

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-02-28, 01:40 AM
Druid//Cleric? Puh-leese. That's not even close to broken, all you're doing is increasing your spell list and spells-per day.

Druid 20//Fighter 4/Monk 1/Warshaper 5/Beastmaster 1/Nature's Warrior 5/(Either Fighter or Warblade 4)
Important feats are Natural Spell, Natural Bond, and Obtain Companion.
18 BaB, 3 animal companions at your level, level +3, level +6, wis to AC, and either 6 bonus feats or 4 and IL 12. :smallcool:

I highly recommend avoiding gestalt unless your players know how to enjoy themselves without min-maxing.

Zincorium
2008-02-28, 01:50 AM
Gestalt gives options. This is why it works well in groups with only 1-3 players, because then they can have all the options of a larger group without mucking about with NPCs or players having multiple characters,

A key is that the most powerful options of most characters don't get much better in gestalt. A wizard 5 and a wizard 5//fighter 5 can both only cast 3rd level spells. Ability scores, skill caps, BAB, hit points, and highest level of spells are all exactly the same as a non-gestalt character of one of the two classes.

The best combinations in actual play combine two different roles, like tank, skill monkey, or healer, in ways that don't interfere with each other.

metalbear
2008-02-28, 02:15 AM
Okay, I am confused. In a gestalt do both classes progress simultaneously, and how does this affect the experience requirements for the classes?

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-02-28, 02:19 AM
You take the best aspects of both classes, and they do progress simultaneously. You take the higher hit die, better skill points, class skills for either class are class skills, and any specials for either class(spellcasting, rage, evasion, etc.) are given to you. Exp advances normally.

Zincorium
2008-02-28, 02:23 AM
Okay, I am confused. In a gestalt do both classes progress simultaneously, and how does this affect the experience requirements for the classes?

I'm assuming you've already read the rules section in the SRD that both Demented Fellow and Pinnacle linked to. If you haven't done that, what I'm about to say will make no sense.


In gestalt, you have the same experience table as a standard character. You level at the normal times.

However, each level combines features from two classes (convention on this board is to separate them with two slashes, //). While it seems like you have distinct classes, for the purpose of leveling and qualifying for PrCs, you have one class with a ton of features.

For example, a barbarian//rogue has full BAB, d12 hit dice, 8+ int skill points per level, rage, and sneak attack. As well as all other features that either class would get.

Duke of URL
2008-02-28, 09:42 AM
In terms of "power", also remember that while gestalt characters have more options and resources than regular charatcers, they gain no more actions.

In general, it's often best to focus on one side of the gestalt for active powers, and the other side for passive abilities that don't require actions to use. This is what makes Monk actually reasonable as a gestalt class -- it has good all-around saves and lots of automatic defensive abilities that can improve almost anything on the other side, especially high-WIS classes.

Person_Man
2008-02-28, 10:16 AM
Essentially, gestalt gives you two class progressions at once. A normal ECL 10 character would usually be written as:

Human Fighter 6/Blackguard 4

The same ECL 10 character in a gestalt game might be written as:

Human Fighter 6/Blackguard 4//Rogue 5/Assassin 5

You essentially have two tracks, but combine all of the powers.

There are all sorts of crazy rules and game conventions that go along with this. For example, its highly suggested that you not use Mystic Theurge like prestige classes, because spell progression would be skewed.

It's also generally accepted that all of the PCs are going to be demi-god like characters. It's not unusual for every character in the group to have full spell progression, full BAB, strong Saves, high Skills, multiple special powers, etc.

Having played D&D for a long time, I highly suggest avoiding gestalt until you have a very strong handle on the core rules. Gestalt is very easy to screw up, both as a PC and as a DM.

Hario
2008-02-28, 11:29 AM
The same ECL 10 character in a gestalt game might be written as:

Human Fighter 6/Blackguard 4//Rogue 5/Assassin 5

Don't forget you cannot progress more than one PRC in the same level, though it is possible for this build to have the Assassin baseclass (assassin's handbook). That is easily one of the misconceptions with gestalt, also added with theurge PRCS you'd get CL's in the 40s which is even less tame than gestalt is supposed to be.