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Bag_of_Holding
2008-02-28, 02:26 AM
I've been making a few NPCs for my friend's campaign, and had some trouble determining what should be the associated class for Zerns. Zern is a monsterous humanoid... monster from MM4 (one of my very favourite creatures), and has a very nice abilities not unlike Tony Tony Chopper (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Tony_Chopper) from One Piece.

Although its favoured class is listed as Transmuter, it also has decent physical abilities (none of them above 20, but is decent enough), while having relatively lower bonuses in mental ability scores. It also has the ability to use Alter Self at will (humanoid and monsterous humanoid only) as well as very neat Eldritch Blast-like ability (not a touch attack, I'm afraid), which means it's not too bad as a stealthy class either.

Its racial skills are rather bad though, which makes it harder to determine its associated class.

So, what do you think about this Zern creature? Should its associated class be Spellcasting class (although the entry also mentions that Zern clerics are rare), Melee-type class or stealthy class?



p.s. Also, should all PrCs be considered associated, even if they do not obviously play into their strength (such as giving blackguard levels to a mind flayer)?

Zincorium
2008-02-28, 02:32 AM
Since it doesn't have any in-built casting class, only spell like abilities, spellcasting classes should be non-associated. Level 1 or two spells just don't mean much for something that's already CR 6. By the time the class is no longer only half price, it's CR 10 and only casting 4th level spells.

Classes like fighter, on the other hand, augment the Zern's already good melee fighting capability, there's really no power delay to contend with.

Edit: PrCs should always be on a case by case basis. Blackguard helps a mindflayer with ability synergy and improves it's fairly deadly tentacle-grapple, so yes.

Basically, the rule should be: if it makes a monster better at what it's already doing to the PCs, it's associated. If the class has to progress for a while before it'll bug the PCs anymore than the monster itself, it'll be non-associated. It is all a judgement call, and you might want to check it against similar monsters to see if the CR is reasonably in-line.

Mojo_Rat
2008-02-28, 02:36 AM
Really if you want to change the association it is up to you. However you need to repemember that Prefered class does not represent the class that a race is best suited for. It represents the class the race's culture leans towards. The races cultural leaning and interests are shown a bit with some of its SLA's it looks like.

Really though NPC's dont have to follow the same rules as PC's change it or ignore it as you would like as long as the DM you are helping is fine with it.

Belial_the_Leveler
2008-02-28, 02:45 AM
Associated class levels are those class levels that would advance the creature's CR at roughly 1/1 ratio. Non-associated class levels are those that would advance its CR at 2/1 ratio or less.

For example, giving a Marilith 4 wizard levels is not going to advance her to CR 21. She'd be CR 19 at best-because the wizard levels would be almost completely useless. But giving the Marilith 4 Blackguard or 4 Hexblade levels are definitely going to raise her CR to 20-21.


There are quite a few points one should remember when trying to find out what the associated level of a monster is:

1) HD:
If the monster's racial HD and/or level adjustment (for PCs) is more than 1/3 of the character's desired total level then most probably meele class levels are going to be more useful than spellcasting class levels. E.g. if you're aiming at CR 20 and you start with a succubus, sorceror is a good class choice though not the best. If you start with a glabrezu, sorceror is not a very good class.

2) Abilities:
If the monster's ability scores-or a specific ability score that can play a major role-are higher than 20, then classes that give bonuses based on these abilities are best. E.g. if you have a charisma of 24, paladin, blackguard and hexblade are starting to look like a very good idea.

3) Size/limbs:
If the monster is larger than medium and has more than the standard two limbs-especially if the additional limbs are pairs of hands-then meele classes suit it best.

Bag_of_Holding
2008-02-28, 03:04 AM
Thanks everyone! :smallwink: