Arena Tournament, Round 33: Stonefist vs. Running Fist

[ArenaManager]

Arena Tournament, Round 33: Stonefist vs. Running Fist

Map:
http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee221/Kyace/glasshouse.png


XP Award: 300 XP
GP Award: 300 GP

docnessuno - Stonefist (http://www.coyotecode.net/profiler/view.php?id=3204)
KaganMonk - Running Fist (http://www.coyotecode.net/profiler/view.php?id=3184)

All Combatants, please roll initiative.

[docnessuno]

No purchases

[roll0]
Edit1: 1st mistake: forgot to add my init. bonus... so that's 17+1=18
[Just noriced i didn't wrote the +2 to initiative from 'aggressive' trait in my sheet]
Total initiative: 18

Note:
This is my 1st arena here, i hope i don't screw up too badly

[KaganMonk]

Buy 10 shurikens, 2gp

My first time too, don't sweat it.

Edit: was only to get the die roller working. If you want me to roll again, let me know.

d20+2

[KaganMonk]

Going to try again, since I can't make it work.
[roll0]

[docnessuno]

Ok
I start in B13

This shouldn't be hided since we can see each other starting position, correct?

[Paladin Latham]

Correct. Good luck to both of you!

[KaganMonk]

Start in Y14. You have initiative
Nothing in my hands.

Stats for Refs
HP:8
AC: 16 (10 + 4 Wis[Monk] + 2 Dex)
Touch:16 FF: 14
Saves: 2/4/6
In Hand: Nothing

[docnessuno]

2x Move in M13

Stats

HP:17/17 | AC:11 TO:8 FF:12 | Saves:+4/-1/+4 | Hands:Greatclub


Done

[KaganMonk]

I move

For Refs:
Move to X20.
[roll0]
[roll1]

[roll2]
[roll3]


Stats:
Location:X20
HP:8
AC: 16 (10 + 4 Wis[Monk] + 2 Dex)
Touch:16 FF: 14
Saves: 2/4/6
In Hand: Nothing


Edit: Roll spot and listen

[docnessuno]

Since i was seeing you when you started to move, shoulden't you list the last spot i saw you, before losing LOS?

Listen + spot

[roll0] | [roll1]

[KaganMonk]

When I moved, I started hiding. Near as I can tell, through the glass the last place you saw me was where I started. If a ref gives otherwise, I'll gladly go with it.

[Talic]

Ref Talic

Stonefist and Running Fist lose sight of each other as Running Fist moves south from Y14 to Y15, gaining total concealment from 2 panes of glass.

[docnessuno]

@ REFS

The walls seems quite brittle, what would likely happen if instead of attaking them i just run toward one hoping to pass on the other side?


Not Done

[Talic]

@Refs, Stonefist:

The meneuver you describe is under the Breaking and entering (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/exploration.htm#smashinganObject) section of the SRD. According to the SRD, the glass in this arena is 3 inches thick, however, no SRD entry listing is given for the break DC of glass on a strength check. Either you'll need a High Ref to rule on one, or you may attempt to sunder it, per rules in same section. My personal opinion would be no higher than the DC for a wooden door, but it's not my decision to make. Further, the action for breaking a door by strength doesn't have an action type that I'm aware of. Likely it will be either a standard or a full round action, again, not within my power to rule.

[Bayar]

@refs, Stonefist:
I would say it could take as long as sunder (standard), since it would still be an attack-like maneuver to use your momentum to break the glass.

And the AC would probably be 10 -5 (DEX 0) -2 (inanimate) +4/+8 (size Large or Huge, dunno which one).
The DC to break would be about as a good door, since we know the glass has 3 HP, and normal glass has 1 HP.

But this is only IMHO.

[docnessuno]

@Refs

I was thinking more of a charge-like (full round with the break attempt inbetween 2xmove and not at the end of it, still mandatory straight-line movement).
Will wait untill an high-ref says something new :smallsmile:

[Kyeudo]

GM Kyeudo

@refs, Stonefist:

The default Break DC of glass is 18. Found it in Dungeonscape.

[docnessuno]

@Refs

wow, quite high but i'm going to try
About the action itself?

[KaganMonk]

Just checking in. I'll be able to post tomorrow for sure, so let me know when it is my turn.

[Kyeudo]

@refs, Stonefist:

I'd say that breaking something is a standard action.

[docnessuno]

My action, part 1

Standard action: Try to break the glass wall between M13 and N13
[roll0]

[docnessuno]

My action, part 2

Move action: move to M7
[roll0] [roll1]


Stats

HP:17/17 | AC:11 TO:8 FF:12 | Saves:+4/-1/+4 | Hands:Greatclub


Done

[KaganMonk]

Full Move
Move to T24
[roll0]
[roll1]

[roll2]
[roll3]

Apply dodge to my only opponent


Stats:
Location:T24
HP:8
AC: 16 (10 + 4 Wis[Monk] + 2 Dex) (not including dodge +1)
Touch:16 FF: 14
Saves: 2/4/6
In Hand: Nothing


Done, but I'd like a LoS check please

[Talic]

Ref Talic

LOS For Everyone!

@Stonefist:
No LoS at the end of your move, of any time thereafter

@Running Fist:
No Los at any point during your move.

@Refs:
Wall at (M/N, 8) and (U/V, 17) are providing total concealment at start of move. At end, (M/N, 8), (O, 13/14), and (Q, 20/21) block LoS both ways. At all parts of move, (M/N, 8) and at least one pane along S and E walls block LoS.

However, I'm concerned about one thing. At start of move, Stonefist is using (M/N, 8) as cover, and it also provides concealment. Cover rules state that player closest to a low obstacle (+4 Cover to AC, similar to these) ignores the cover. Does that mean that he will also ignore the concealment?

If so, that will give him brief LoS of Running Fist as he starts his move in X20, until he reaches V21, enroute to T24. Won't change Running Fist's move here, but it could affect Stonefist's upcoming move.


Play paused for a moment.

[chilepepper]

ref chilepepper

@talic, refs

Low Obstacles and Cover

A low obstacle (such as a wall no higher than half your height) provides cover, but only to creatures within 30 feet (6 squares) of it. The attacker can ignore the cover if he’s closer to the obstacle than his target.
Low cover rules apply to obstacles no more than half a PCs height. The individual panes are 5' square, but the wall is 20' tall. Low cover doesn't apply.

Also, concerning the breaking of the walls, docnessuno tried to break a wall, but didn't specify which pane vertically. The wall is 5' panes, 4 high, that remain even if isolated, so presumable he meant the pane touching the ground which doesn't matter since it didn't break.


@stonefist
Concerning your attempt to break a wall: remember that the wall is made up of 5' square panes. So the section between M13 and N13 has 4 separate panes of glass. You might want to specify which 5' section you are targeting with the break attempt or attack, to avoid possible confusion. In this case, it was obviously the ground level pane, since you were basically trying to run through it.

Also, the LoS check from Talic was correct.

@Running Fist
The LoS from Talic was correct.

Play may now continue.

[docnessuno]

My action

Ok since i have no LoS Runningfist is either near O15 or near S22 trying to sneak up behind me, so i'll try to close-up
No more fancy break attempt, this time i'll just smash the panels with my greatclub
Move action: move back to M13
Standard action: Smash panel between M13 and M14 (Ground level)
[roll0]
if threat:
[roll1]
if hits:
[roll2]
if crits add:
[roll3]
Edit: How to wast 2 10's damage rolls with a crappy one agaisnt a wall.. :smallfurious:

Spot + Listen:
[roll4] [roll5]
Edit: listhen should have been at +6, still a natual 1, OUCH!


Stats

HP:17/17 | AC:11 TO:8 FF:12 | Saves:+4/-1/+4 | Hands:Greatclub


Done

[KaganMonk]

My Turn:
Move: Move silently to R26
Standard: Full Defense
If opponent uses a ranged weapon, I use Deflect Arrows

[roll0]

[roll1]
[roll2]


Stats:
Location: R26
HP:8
AC: 16 (10 + 4 Wis[Monk] + 2 Dex) (not including dodge +1+4 Defensive)
Touch:16 FF: 14
Saves: 2/4/6

[Seribro]

@Stonefist:
No Los

@Running Fist:
No Los

[docnessuno]

My action, part 1

Uff, trying again against the same panel
Standard action: Smash panel between M13 and M14 (Ground level) with my greatclub.
[roll0]
if threat:
[roll1]
if hits:
[roll2]
if crits add:
[roll3]

If i finally break it i will wait for LoS to take my move action
Spot + Listen:
[roll4] [roll5]


Stats

HP:17/17 | AC:11 TO:8 FF:12 | Saves:+4/-1/+4 | Hands:Greatclub


Not Done

[Talic]

Ref Talic

@Stonefist:No LOS

@Running Fist:No LOS

@Refs:Total Concealment provided by 2 glass panes, at (Q, 24/25) and (M/N, 14).
1 panel broken, ground level (M, 13/14)

Players currently at M13 and R26.


Play continues.

[docnessuno]

My action, part 2

Move action: Move to M20

Spot + Listen:
I keep mid-round rolls, right?


Stats

HP:17/17 | AC:11 TO:8 FF:12 | Saves:+4/-1/+4 | Hands:Greatclub


Done

[chilepepper]

ref chilepepper
@doc
No LoS. Also, you could roll again. What you are doing is called reactive spot and listen. As you move, you can see areas you previously couldn't, so you are spotting as a reaction to being in the new area. If you don't move, and nothing else changes to grant you a reactive spot, you have to take an action to spot. Anyway, point is, the midround spot was reactive to you breaking the glass, then you moved, so you'd need another. For simplicity sake, when dealing with sneaky opponents, most people will roll a reactive spot for their turn and then one for their opponents turn, in case (s)he moves. As long as you have at least one roll, that gives the refs something to use. Kinda an ambiguous answer, but I hope it helps.
@kagan
no los

kaganmonk's turn

[docnessuno]

@Refs
Rerolling spot/listen
Spot + Listen:
[roll0] [roll1]



You can go RunningFist

[KaganMonk]

This is going to be a fun one to read later.

My Move
Move to V26

[roll=Listen]d20+6
Edit: d20+6


Stats:
Location: V26
HP:8
AC: 16 (10 + 4 Wis[Monk] + 2 Dex) (not including dodge +1)
Touch:16 FF: 14
Saves: 2/4/6


Not Done
LoS Please

[KaganMonk]

[roll0]
Since I couldn't get it to work in my previous post. Sorry for the double.

[docnessuno]

Kagan, would you please request LoS by yourself when it needs to be checked during/at the end of your turn?

It just slows down the match..

[KaganMonk]

Sorry, I forget I have to ask for one. Will do from now on.

[Talic]

Ref Talic

LoS is established for all parties.

Stonefist is currently in M20.

Running Fist is currently in V26.

Play continues from this point.


Also, to elaborate on a point made by Ref Chile earlier, on reactive spot and listen checks...

@Anyone, SRD:

"Every time you have a chance to spot something in a reactive manner you can make a Spot check without using an action. Trying to spot something you failed to see previously is a move action."

Reactive would be a spot or listen in response to something. A person moving into or through your field of view, you moving until the person is in your field of view, or the like. While you normally get one every time a situation comes up, typically, such opportunities happen no more than once per round, and refs will typically call for D20 rolls if this is otherwise.

[/spoiler]

[KaganMonk]

Done

Incidentally, do I notice any broken panes of glass?

[docnessuno]

You notice M20-M21 panel (grouns level) shattered

You lose LoS as i move south

My action

Still trying to close up, with this action i should end up with los but without him having LoE for a charge

Move action: move back to M24
Standard action: Smash panel between M24 and N24 (Ground level)
[roll0]
if threat:
[roll1]
if hits:
[roll2]
if crits add:
[roll3]


Spot + Listen:
[roll4] [roll5]


Stats

HP:17/17 | AC:11 TO:8 FF:12 | Saves:+4/-1/+4 | Hands:Greatclub



Not Done

[docnessuno]

You regain LoS as i smash the panel between M24 and N24 (Ground level)

I'm stainding in M24 wielding my greatclub

Done

[KaganMonk]

Move to V21 and beyond...

to V20.
[roll0]
Hope this is correct for running around the corner to hide.
Otherwise, just tell him I'm trying to be stealthy.
Draw shurikens

[roll1]
[roll2]


Stats:
Location: V20
HP:8
AC: 16 (10 + 4 Wis[Monk] + 2 Dex) (not including dodge +1)
Touch:16 FF: 14
Saves: 2/4/6

[docnessuno]

Edit:
Free action:
Scream Hey fastlegs! Should i start a petition to get you renamed runningchicken?

My action

uff he likes to play hide and seek, but i'm gonna samsh the whole arena till he have no cover left

My guess for his position would be either of Q13, V19-V20 or V10
If i knew for sure he was in V20 i could just charge using rage to gain reach and pummel him, but i cannot risk being prone to a readied acton if he's not there so:
Move action: move to N21
Standard action: Smash panel between N20 and N21 (Ground level)
[roll0]
if threat:
[roll1]
if hits:
[roll2]
if crits add:
[roll3]


Spot + Listen:
[roll4] [roll5]


Stats

HP:17/17 | AC:11 TO:8 FF:12 | Saves:+4/-1/+4 | Hands:Greatclub



Done

[KaganMonk]

Waiting for LoS. I'll try to post again after we get it, but it might not be until Saturday. Sorry.

[Mavian]

@Kagan

Your rolls are broken, and I have no idea what your hide modifier is, so its difficult for me to determine LoS, could you please reroll?

[KaganMonk]

[roll0]
[roll1]
[roll2]


Sorry bout that.
I will post tomorrow at the latest.

[KaganMonk]

Forget it.

With your superior spotting skills, you see me trying to hide at V20. I come out to V21 to get a line on you. Let me know what I see and I'll complete my turn.

[docnessuno]

you see me standing in N21, wielding with my greatclub, some glass dust is at my feet and N20-N21 panel is broken

[KaganMonk]

Move back to V20.
Flurry of blows against glass in front of me.

[roll0]
[roll1]

[roll2]
[roll3]

If I can't flurry, only the first, hopefully shattering the glass anyways.

[docnessuno]

don't think you can flurry with a standard action, but the 1st attack is enough to break the wall

done?

[KaganMonk]

Yep, done.

Free action: Stay silent

[docnessuno]

Ok

Stonefist stands still, waiting for his opponent

Free action
Scream: Come and get me!

Stats

HP:17/17 | AC:11 TO:8 FF:12 | Saves:+4/-1/+4 | Hands:Greatclub



Readyed action:
As soon as he gets in melee range, rage, take a 5 foot step back and smash him with the greatclub (reach from being large - mountain rage)!


Done

[KaganMonk]

I charge to O20 and attack with Stunning Fist.

[roll0] (pretty sure this includes cover, charge, and my bonuses)
[roll1]

If it succeeds, make a fort save DC 15 or be stunned until my turn.

Stats:
Location: O20
HP:8
AC: 16 (10 + 4 Wis[Monk] + 2 Dex) (not including dodge +1)
Touch:16 FF: 14
Saves: 2/4/6

[docnessuno]

This triggers my readied action:

Readyed action:
As soon as he gets in melee range, rage, take a 5 foot step back and smash him with the greatclub (reach from being large - mountain rage)

I take a 5ft step to M20 leaving your melee range
I rage
I strike you:
[roll0]
If treath:
[roll1]
If hits:
[roll2]
If crits add:
[roll3]


Stats

HP:19/19 | AC:8 TO:5 FF:9 | Saves:+4/-1/+6 | Hands:Greatclub
Mountain rage 1/9


Done
Done[/QUOTE]

[Talic]

Ref Talic

All plays done correctly. Stonefist's readied action resolved, moving him out of Running Fist's range. Attack roll was made. Stonefist's initiative changes to immediately before Running fist (no change there).

Running fist completes turn. As you've used a full round action, you may take swift and free actions, and then pass the turn to Stonefist.

On a side note, Kyeudo very recently ruled that Readied actions are noticeable. For future readied actions if your opponent has LoS when you declare them, post them something like this:

Ready an action:
[spoiler}
Action
[/spoiler}

[docnessuno]

Ref Talic

On a side note, Kyeudo very recently ruled that Readied actions are noticeable. For future readied actions if your opponent has LoS when you declare them, post them something like this:

Ready an action:
[spoiler}
Action
[/spoiler}

Ok, i tought that stainding here doing nothing would mean a pretty clear readied action.

Assuming RunningFist have no meaningful free-swift-immediate actions to take:

Standard action:
I strike him with my greatclub
[roll0]
If treath:
[roll1]
If hits:
[roll2]
If crits add:
[roll3]

Move action:
Take a 5ft step to L20

Stats

HP:19/19 | AC:8 TO:5 FF:9 | Saves:+4/-1/+6 | Hands:Greatclub
Mountain rage 2/9


Done

[docnessuno]

Ok, waiting to know if Runningfist took some actions before my turn

[Kyeudo]

GM Kyeudo


Ref Talic

All plays done correctly. Stonefist's readied action resolved, moving him out of Running Fist's range. Attack roll was made. Stonefist's initiative changes to immediately before Running fist (no change there).

Running fist completes turn. As you've used a full round action, you may take swift and free actions, and then pass the turn to Stonefist.

Actually, there is an error. You can not take two actions with a ready action. Thus, you may not both Rage and Attack. Pick one, reroll if you choose to attack, and then we can get back to the carnage.

BTW, if you use Mountain Rage, be sure to include the penalties for wielding an inappropriately sized weapon when you are large and using that medium greatclub. Goliaths have no ability to wield too small weapons without penalty.

[docnessuno]

GM Kyeudo



Actually, there is an error. You can not take two actions with a ready action. Thus, you may not both Rage and Attack. Pick one, reroll if you choose to attack, and then we can get back to the carnage.

BTW, if you use Mountain Rage, be sure to include the penalties for wielding an inappropriately sized weapon when you are large and using that medium greatclub. Goliaths have no ability to wield too small weapons without penalty.

Ouch totally forgot about penalityes for weapon size, well still a miss so not a problem...

About free actio, i read SRD in a different way:

Free Action
Free actions consume a very small amount of time and effort. You can perform one or more free actions while taking another action normally. However, there are reasonable limits on what you can really do for free.

Note the underlined part

[Kyeudo]

GM Kyeudo

First, you may not take a free action outside of your turn unless the action explicitly allows it, such as in the case of talking. Second, a ready action is not "normally"



You can ready a standard action, a move action, or a free action.


Note the use of the word "or", not "and". You can only ready a single action. You can't even ready two free actions.

So, are you raging, or did you attack?

[docnessuno]

Still disagreeing with your PoV, and would like this issue to be further disccussed after this match, but you are an high ref, so untill furter discussions i acept your ruling and will continue this match using it.


So:
I raged and took a 5ft step
On my following turn i missed my attack and took a 5ft step back

Question: my now unused attack roll should be kept for my next attack or should i dump it?

[KaganMonk]

Very lost now.

First: Can you take both a free action (rage) and a other (for lack of a better term) action (5 foot step)

Second: was another question about movement, but it was my mistake. I assume it's legal to 5-foot diagonally through that space. So no problem with 2nd.

[docnessuno]

the 5ft step is allowed only if the character didn't move in his turn while preparing the readied action
About the rage, as i stated i'm not 100% convinced but for this game Kyeudo ruling stands, so go on with your turn.

[KaganMonk]

Go ahead and dump it, because I shall be a good little monk and behave like my mentor told me:
I run from the raging barbarian with extended reach.

Run to Z9

If there are any more rulings, I shall go back to where I need to.
While I'm running, could you tell me briefly what mountain rage does?

Stats
Location: Z9
HP:8
AC: 16 (10 + 4 Wis[Monk] + 2 Dex) (dodge +1)
Touch:16 FF: 14
Saves: 2/4/6

[docnessuno]

Mountain rage is equal to normal rage except:
Size becomes large (gaining reach)
Str bonus is +6 (instead of +4)

[KaganMonk]

Done, by the way.

[Talic]

Ref Talic

The Run action by Running Fist provokes an attack of opportunity. Further, per the Run action, Running Fist is denied the benefit of dexterity to AC.

[KaganMonk]

Yeah, I forgot about AoO when I ran.
I really hate to win this way, but the deadline is coming up. Hope he posts soon.

[docnessuno]

First of all i must say i'm sorry for the delay, been very busy with work

I forgot about AoO too, was tinking about 2x move ^^

Ok, AoO
[roll0]
If treath:
[roll1]
If hits:
[roll2]
If crits add:
[roll3]

I don't know if this is considered striking from the back if this is the case add +4 to hit rolls.

[docnessuno]

Clearly a miss

So my action:
Run to Y9

Done

[KaganMonk]

Glad I didn't win by dq.

Since you came up close, I'll flurry.

[roll0] (added in 1 for size mod and 2 for rage penalty)
[roll1]

[roll2]
[roll3]

[KaganMonk]

Glad I didn't win by dq.

Since you came up close, I'll flurry.

[roll0] (added in 1 for size mod and 2 for rage penalty)
[roll1]

[roll2]
[roll3]

Forums were slow. Stupid natural 1s
Stats:
Location: Z9
HP:8
AC: 16 (10 + 4 Wis[Monk] + 2 Dex) (dodge +1)
Touch:16 FF: 14
Saves: 2/4/6

[docnessuno]

Let's see if someone can score a hit...

I strike you:
[roll0]
If treath:
[roll1]
If hits:
[roll2]
If crits add:
[roll3]


Stats

HP:19/19 | AC:8 TO:5 FF:9 | Saves:+4/-1/+6 | Hands:Greatclub
Mountain rage 4/9


Done

[docnessuno]

YAY!

Seems that 22 means an end to this game

Good fight

[Talic]

Ref Talic

Just to clarify, a double move also provokes an AoO. The only movement actions which do not are the five foot step and the Full round Withdraw action (a minor change from 3.0 to 3.5).


That said, the match looks to be resolved. Congrats, I'll go get a high ref.

[ArenaManager]

GM Kyeudo

Stonefist is the winner!