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Stapler
2008-02-28, 09:22 AM
Assuming your standard titan is much like a human, are there any current rules for a dwarf, gnome or elf like titans? If there are no current rules for this I think I'll have to take this to the homebrew forums.

JBento
2008-02-28, 09:43 AM
I don't have the books with me, but I don't think the Titans are described as "humans" technically. IIRC, they're described as "being closer to the wellspring of life." Also IIRC, I do believe that Elves are ALSO described as being closer to the wellspring of life than humans.

From what I gather Titans are in no way related to humans, except in shape (and Titans are MUCH larger and always physically perfect). A few cosmetic changes (pointy ears, long beards and stocky build) could get you Titans of other races. There's also a guy that appears in the MM4 or 5 called an Ancestor or Dwarven Ancestor or somesuch that is a big (read: Large size), burly Dwarf that appears to be made of stone but is actually an Outsider. perhaps that could serve as your Dwarven Titan?

Stapler
2008-02-28, 10:20 AM
I don't have the books with me, but I don't think the Titans are described as "humans" technically. IIRC, they're described as "being closer to the wellspring of life." Also IIRC, I do believe that Elves are ALSO described as being closer to the wellspring of life than humans.

From what I gather Titans are in no way related to humans, except in shape (and Titans are MUCH larger and always physically perfect). A few cosmetic changes (pointy ears, long beards and stocky build) could get you Titans of other races. There's also a guy that appears in the MM4 or 5 called an Ancestor or Dwarven Ancestor or somesuch that is a big (read: Large size), burly Dwarf that appears to be made of stone but is actually an Outsider. perhaps that could serve as your Dwarven Titan?

Right, I'm assuming the standard Titan is "human like". But what I'm looking for is something more than cosmetic changes. I want the different Titans to have different powers and different weapons based on the standard races. If there currently are no rules for this I'll have to house rule it. Thanks for the Dwarven Ancestor idea, is the CR on the same level with the Titan?

JBento
2008-02-28, 10:29 AM
Right, I'm assuming the standard Titan is "human like". But what I'm looking for is something more than cosmetic changes. I want the different Titans to have different powers and different weapons based on the standard races. If there currently are no rules for this I'll have to house rule it. Thanks for the Dwarven Ancestor idea, is the CR on the same level with the Titan?

No, no, it's MUCH lower. There were two of the blokes as the final bosses of a RPGA adventure for 4th level characters IIRC, though admiteddly it was one killer fight - one of them was quite capable of giving the bunch a run for their money. Still, nothing quite comparable to the Titan... You may have to homebrew their non-human titanass. You may want to use the current Titan crunch for one of the non-humans ones, however. With the maul as their favoured weapon, the MM Titan could very well become the Dwarf Titan

Kol Korran
2008-02-28, 07:50 PM
i don't realy understand why it bothers youso much- not all of the monsters (even vaguely humanoid-ish ones) need to resemeble or have an affiliation with one of the races... are there elven, dwarfish, orcish giants?
the only similarity i see between titans and humans (though i never checked any reference in the rules) comes from:
1- the greeks thought that the titans, as well as the gods resemble humans in form (well the most of them). i think it was just easier to imagine, and that worked well wit hte way they percieved the gods- basically as regular people with extraordinary powers.
2- whomever drew the titans in the MM drew them human-looking... but that is far from binding for your fantasy game.

i'd suggest that instead of creating different subcultures based on sub-titan races, focus on how they fit the myhts and legends of everyrace- some ideas should remain constant, and some not.(i personally think that race=culture or subrace= culture is one of the most unfortunate and appaling educational examples the DnD game made. prejudice in real life, and prejudice in fantasy... but i digress) as to the titan's culture, artifacts, creations, religion, and so on- make them unique forthemslesves, not based on what this or that race thinks of them (though that might effect, if you go by the "belief shapes the outer planes" principal).

but if you're on that subject, why stop there- why are all wights humanoid? vampires? why do Chimeric creature always have one goatish head? of the devils and demons that resemble humanoids (succubus comes to mind), why aren't there versions for every race (in their natural form) why do manticore have only human faces? why do harpies take their basic form from human females? why do nagas have human faces? what about the Yuan-ti? shouldn't there be pure blood halfling yuan-ti for example? or the centaur? why a human upper body?

yes, i know that for some of these (and there are plenty, plenty more examples) you can say- oh, but the face/ body is different! now it is purely it's own monster race! it doesn't have any affects from the humans! (or other humanoid races) well, why not the titans? they are exactly the same thing...

most monsters and conceptions in DnD have rooted origins in mythologies, religions, and Tolkien and his kind (who were also inflluenced from mythologies and such), or in other words, from our world. and as pratchet once mentioned- humans make gods, monsters, devil's and such by taking a human and sticking up animal bits to it, and nature affects (it can breath lightning!) just take one look at the Hindu multitude of gods and demons, and you can allready fill a monster manual or two.

don't try to make and fit reasonable rules or evolution to everything- make it playable, enjoyable, not necesserily accurate or logical. it works much better in the long run..

Stapler
2008-02-29, 09:56 AM
I think you're reading to much into this. I'm not bothered by the fact that Titans only look like humans, and I don't really think there should be large groups of Halfling Titans running around. These are going to be the sort of BBEGs of my game and I just wanted to use the Titan as a base. They won't actually be called a Titan or share much of anything of the Titans as far as history, just stat blocks.

Quellian-dyrae
2008-03-02, 02:02 AM
I don't know that there's an official creature like you describe, but it'd be easy enough to homebrew:

Step 1: Apply the race's ability score modifiers (maybe double them) to those of the titan.

Step 2: Change the titan's weapon to a gargantuan weapon appropriate to the race. For gnomes and halflings, you may wish to lower the titan's size to Large and the weapon to Huge. Note that applying the reverse monster advancement rules, this would lower the CR by 1.

Step 3: Change the spell-like abilities to those thematically appropriate for the race. Dwarf titans would have earth-type abilities, gnome titans illusions, halfling titans stealth and travel effects, etc. To maintain relative power, swap SLAs on a one for one basis with those of equal level. Paying special care to the thematic value of the Quickened SLA may pay off.

Step 4: Change the alignment to that of the race, and make the DR overcome by weapons of the opposed alignment on the law-chaos axis.

For added effect, make the Craft and Knowledge skill appropriate to the race. You can change other skills around if you feel like putting in the effort, but it's probably not too necessary.