Edward Vs. Azula

[Rayzin]

There in a building 3 stories high
The fist floor is one large hall way with a staircase at one end and the front entrance. There are 4 room's- a bathroom, a staircase to basement that is boiler room, 1 large room(50x30 feet) that is empty, and a cafeteria.

On second floor were it leads up to 2 rooms full of desk's, both lead out to a large balcony area which has stairs leading up to the third floor.

Once on the third floor theres a small room that has a heavier door than the other's(all of them could lock), and outside that room it's an openand there's a pool.

Both are starting in one of the large room's
Edward and Azula can use anything in the anime's or manga's.
This isn't based on anything just places they could fight or run to.

[Supreme Evil]

Can they leave the building? And is it day or night?

[Rayzin]

its dawn and if they cant leave farther than 50 feet(theres nothing within those 50 feet except for grass)

[Supreme Evil]

Azula sets the whole building and all the grass on fire. She wins.

[Rayzin]

I think Ed could transmute a pipe in the boiler room into a large hose to unset fire to it or take the water from the pool(I made a pool so Ed could fight better there and a Boiler room in case, Azula has advantages like the grass and burnable stuff.)

[Gungnir]

You mean, like, the pipsqueak midget who's smaller than a grain of rice and you need a magnifying glass to see him, Ed?

[Rayzin]

Yeah, Azula can't burn what she can't see!!

[Supreme Evil]

Yeah, Azula can't burn what she can't see!!

She can just burn everything. And how is he supposed to hurt her?

[Rayzin]

I mean Edward Elric fighting Azula in case i thought that he was saying that as a joke about something else(Ed's short).

Edward Elric not able to hurt Azula? I think he could hurt i don't know who would win.

[Dorizzit]

I can see it going this way:

Ed: Let's do it!
Azula: *insert random height insult*
*censored for incredibly graphic violence*
Al: Did you have to beat her to death with her own arm?

[EvilElitest]

You should make it clear that it was Edward Elric. does Ed get a gun?
from
EE

[Cubey]

I'd give this one to Azula. Edward Elric loses in a fight to Roy Mustang - once he had even Al for support, but still lost despite trying his best. And Azula's firebending is superior to what Mustang can pull off with his fire alchemy. She's trickier too.

Short version:
Ed<Mustang<Azula [<Alex Louis Armstrong]

EDIT: I just had a thought. Who'd win in a battle of earth-based Awesome - Toph VS Armstrong?

[thubby]

I'd give this one to ed, but it would be a tough fight. ed has an entire building at his disposal, to Azula its an obstacle. he could literally seal her in from another floor. if Azula could close to melee range the slower Ed would have trouble, but getting there would be next to impossible since the terrain changes on Ed's whim.


I'd give this one to Azula. Edward Elric loses in a fight to Roy Mustang - once he had even Al for support, but still lost despite trying his best. And Azula's firebending is superior to what Mustang can pull off with his fire alchemy. She's trickier too.

one thing to keep in mind is mustang had significantly more force behind his attacks, they were (despite physics) explosions. firebending requires more effort to make it break stuff. were ed to make a wall more than a foot or 2 thick, azula would have to at least use lightning.

[Mr. Scaly]

Considering Ed got his rear handed to him by Envy, who DIDN'T have deadly fire magic and was of comparable speed and agility with Azula, I give it to Azula.

[Rogue 7]

You should make it clear that it was Edward Elric. does Ed get a gun?
from
EE

Well, not technically, but he does have his auto-mail arm and whatever he can find in the office to MAKE a gun. Didn't he make that absolutely gigantic cannon out of dirt in his duel against Mustang?

And the way I see it going it quite possibly this. Azula runs into the building. Ed sees her, transmutes himself some sort of secure bunker then brings the building down around her.

[EvilElitest]

Well, not technically, but he does have his auto-mail arm and whatever he can find in the office to MAKE a gun. Didn't he make that absolutely gigantic cannon out of dirt in his duel against Mustang?

And the way I see it going it quite possibly this. Azula runs into the building. Ed sees her, transmutes himself some sort of secure bunker then brings the building down around her.

1. He made the cannon out of stone and concrete yes
2. In the manga (is this anime or manga by the way) he has a hand gun
from
EE

[Oslecamo]

Considering Ed got his rear handed to him by Envy, who DIDN'T have deadly fire magic and was of comparable speed and agility with Azula, I give it to Azula.

Envy hasn't got deadly fire magic...

Envy has the MUCH deadlier philosopher's stone, wich grants him uber regeneration capacities and massive strenght. He has the strenght and endurance of several thousand humans inside his body. Homunculus can be burned down to a crisp and still regenerate from that.

Also, Mustang is severly understimated. Just because he hasn't fancy kung fu doesn't mean he's a low weight. In the anime and movie we have seen him blast away scores of enemies with nothing more than a snapping of his fingers.


Ed wins, because he'll just transmute some kind of defensive shell around him, and then crush Azula in a bloody paste with the material around him.

Even if Azula manages to get in close combat, Edward will destroy any weapon she has and then chop her to pieces with his own blades.

[VanBuren]

2. In the manga (is this anime or manga by the way) he has a hand gun
from
EE

I'd hardly say it matters. His abilities are pretty much the same anyway.

[Sucrose]

1. He made the cannon out of stone and concrete yes
2. In the manga (is this anime or manga by the way) he has a hand gun
from
EE

In answer to your parentheses, the OP specifies that anything from anime or manga goes, so he can have whatever he needs from his continuity.

I'd have to side with Ed on this one. He can transmute almost as quickly as Azula firebends, so he'll just have to create a good enough barrier, transmute up a cannon, and blow her away. His power is just much more versatile.

[Mr. Scaly]

Envy hasn't got deadly fire magic...

I said Envy DIDN'T have fire powers... And Envy never actually used his strength on Ed (if he did, Ed's head would have been smashed to a paste) and Ed never really injured him enough to force him to regenerate.

[Callos_DeTerran]

Ed wins, because he'll just transmute some kind of defensive shell around him, and then crush Azula in a bloody paste with the material around him.

Even if Azula manages to get in close combat, Edward will destroy any weapon she has and then chop her to pieces with his own blades.

Cause y'know Azula hasn't fought anybody who can manipulate the terrain itself before *coughcoughearthbenderscoughcough* or people with EDIT: melee weapons *coughcougheverybodywhofightsinavatarcoughcough* before. Clearly she has no experience with those sorts of things.

:smalltongue:

Let me know if I didn't lay it on thick enough.

[Sucrose]

Cause y'know Azula hasn't fought anybody who can manipulate the terrain itself before *coughcoughearthbenderscoughcough* or people with swords *coughcougheverybodywhofightsinavatarcoughcough* before. Clearly she has no experience with those sorts of things.

:smalltongue:

Let me know if I didn't lay it on thick enough.

Valid points, but I think that the earthbenders are decidedly weaker than Ed at reforming the terrain, since they can't bend metal (barring Toph's 1337 skills).Plus, they need to telegraph their motions, which takes longer than clapping and touching something. Lastly, they tend not to be able to shape their creations, which means that they can't create machine-gun turrets.

(Also, have we ever seen her personally fighting earthbenders? I actually don't recall an episode, though she presumably has done it.)

In close combat, if he ever gets desperate enough, there's always Scar-style transmutation.

[Oslecamo]

Cause y'know Azula hasn't fought anybody who can manipulate the terrain itself before *coughcoughearthbenderscoughcough* or people with swords *coughcougheverybodywhofightsinavatarcoughcough* before. Clearly she has no experience with those sorts of things.

:smalltongue:

Let me know if I didn't lay it on thick enough.

Cause y'know, Ed's alchemy is totally like whatever bending, and he needs to do fancy martial arts...Wait, he doesn't. He simply touches what he wants to tranmute, and it is transmuted.

Edward once animated a statue the size of a church just to show off.
He freaking turned the ground into a cannon in his battle with Mustang.

We're not talking about puny earth bending were you throw some rocks here and there and you can only make as many attacks as you have limbs.

We're talking about turning the building in a living being under Ed's command wich can attack Azula from several directions at once, explode over her, or whatever Ed's imagination can remember.

If Ed is really pissed off, he can even simply disintrigate Azula with a mere touch. What bending does this?

Let me know if I didn't lay it on thick enough.

[EvilElitest]

1. When Envy defeated Ed in the anime, ed didn't have alchemy
2. Ed gets a handgun so yeah
from
EE

[Callos_DeTerran]

We're talking about turning the building in a living being under Ed's command wich can attack Azula from several directions at once, explode over her, or whatever Ed's imagination can remember.

If Ed is really pissed off, he can even simply disintrigate Azula with a mere touch. What bending does this?

All of these wonderful things still rely on Ed being able to see Azula in order to work, or at least know where she was (which in all fairness isn't probably where she would still be. Azula seems to like moving around a lot in a fight) Aside from that my point was Azula more then likely (It's true you never actually see her battle an earthbender besides Toph) has done battle in similar situations. Somebody altering the terrain is not some foreign idea to her, even if it is just more advanced. And not all benders telegraph their moves that much, Toph has for example stomped her foot and earthbended. Takes about as much time as clapping and touching if not less.

Can Ed even simply disintergrate people? I know Scar can because his arm lets him, but I've never seen any other alchemist do what he does. Finishing the process for alchemists seems to be hard-wired into their brains, though I'll be honest and say Ed might have done something like that when fighting the one living suit of armor. I don't remember it very well and I know he was thinking about Scar when he won (or was that when he was fighting greed?)

More importantly I'm pretty sure a bolt of lightening will fry the metal workings of Ed's arm. And I know it needs electricity because it receives the signals from his brain. Can he still do 'clap and transmute' with just one arm or does he need both of them?

Something EE brought up in another thread, Ed admits he's a lousy shot. It's probably why he uses massive cannons (less chance of missing and plus the whole size insecurity thing). Azula IS a wuxia villianess, by definition she is quick and nimble as hell. She dodges invisible blasts of air (granted not the same thing as a gunblast, but it shows the ability to predict where the attack is coming from and getting the hell out of the way) for heavens sake!


Let me know if I didn't lay it on thick enough.

Nope, sorry. :smallbiggrin:

[FoE]

I think Azula has the edge here, because Edward is somewhat hesitant about killing (he even wept over Greed's death), Azula has absolutely no compunctions. And she is an incredible fighter.

[Sucrose]

Can Ed even simply disintergrate people? I know Scar can because his arm lets him, but I've never seen any other alchemist do what he does. Finishing the process for alchemists seems to be hard-wired into their brains, though I'll be honest and say Ed might have done something like that when fighting the one living suit of armor.

Yep; if memory serves, he explicitly defined it as using the same principles as Scar's transmutation in that fight. The only way that it wouldn't work against a human is if Ed had a bout of ethics or nausea and couldn't bring himself to do it.

As Face of Evil points out, that dislike of killing could be quite problematic for Ed, but he's captured plenty of people before without using lethal means, just capturing them with miscellaneous transmutations.

I can see him pulling something like his actions against the thief, and just restraining Azula with a gigantic stone hand. That's quite a bit different than what just about any earthbender can do, and I can honestly say I doubt Azula would see it coming.

[thubby]

stuff...

i think we can count out her lightning, it takes her a while to do that, time ed can use to form a barrier, or simply trap/kill azula.
as for hiding, Ed can remove any hiding areas he wants from any given area (see lab 5 for an example)
he can use alchemy so long as his arm is attached with a hand on it.

[Sucrose]

She dodges invisible blasts of air (granted not the same thing as a gunblast, but it shows the ability to predict where the attack is coming from and getting the hell out of the way) for heavens sake!

I'll give you the quick and nimble point (though Ed's dealt with quick enemies before), but the Avatar's invisible blasts of air are extremely telegraphed. It doesn't take much to realize after a bit that, "he swings staff, I get the hell away."

I agree that Ed's gun isn't going to decide this, though.

[Innis Cabal]

Ed can stop alchemy in its deconstruction phase, all alchimests can, its just a matter of not going through with the full process. Scar's arm isn't able of the reformation stage, thats it.

On topic, Ed really has the over all advantage, since he does not need to see Azula, contrary to pervious opinions. All he has to do is make the rest of the building fall, except the room he is in. Battle over. In the words of GG DESTROYED

[Oslecamo]

Maybe I didn't make my point very clear.

Alchemy>>>>>>> whatever bending.

Ed can manipulate the matter around him at will. He isn't limited to just one thing, he can create explosions, brick walls, bring in the water, make explosives. It's nor just more advanced, it's much more advanced. Earth bending has several restrictions. Alchemy has few, and with Ed's silver pocket watch, wich contained a piece of the philosopher's stone, the sky is the limit.


Blast away his arm if you want. Edward lost his arm when fighting the Homunculus and just made a new one out of spare metal around him.

Or he could transform the exterior of his arm into something electrecity resistant. It transformed the matter of his arm when fighting Scar so he couldn't disintrigate it. Transforming it into rubber or something similar should be child's play for the fullmetal alchemist.

How fast is Ed doing this? Well, he's fast enough to rise a wall from the ground in order to stop bullets from hiting him.

And he managed to disintrigate the animated armor. The only reason he usually doesn't do this with humans it's because he's a nice guy and tries to not kill anyone needlessly.

Anyway, Ed can play safe, make himself a bunker, seal all the building exits, then make compress the walls and crush everything inside. It doesn't matter where Azula is or how fast she is, all that's going to be left is a bloody paste.

Bending is as fast as the body. Alchemy is as fast as the mind.

[Callos_DeTerran]

i think we can count out her lightning, it takes her a while to do that, time ed can use to form a barrier, or simply trap/kill azula.
as for hiding, Ed can remove any hiding areas he wants from any given area (see lab 5 for an example)
he can use alchemy so long as his arm is attached with a hand on it.

I don't think you can. From the OP, neither of them know anything about each other's abilities. Ed's has just as much chance of being surprised by an 'alchemist who doesn't need circles or a alchemic circuit' as Azula has of his advanced 'bending' and the lightening bending only needs one good shot if it can (and it probably would) short out his arm, something he can't fix in a jiffy.

Aside from that we've only seen lightening bending done in practice (The infamous time on the ship everyone's referencing) when she's practicing the movements and making sure it's all done perfectly or when she shots Aang out of the sky and they don't show her actually doing the bending just the end result, can't really be sure how long it'll take in actual combat.

Alchemy takes time too, and I don't just mean clapping. In the anime (not sure about the manga) it always has a lag time of a second or two, longer the more dramatic it is. As for trapping with the terrain, that took a lot of time, you don't think she'd get the HFIL out of it's palm by the time that was done? (She has seen earthbenders trap people with the terrain before too, Second Season finale when the Dai Li capture Iroh)

And lets face it...Ed ALWAYS has a bout of ethics and morality before killing somebody (going by the anime here, haven't read the manga) and the first time seeing that hesitation is all Azula would need to start playing off that (She is a Magnificent Bastard after all, it's what they do) to her advantage.

...There was something else I was going to post, but I forget what it was.

[Mx.Silver]

2. Ed gets a handgun so yeah


To be honest, I'd say this would give Ed a default win in a straight face-off. The Avatar-verse is pretty lacking in ranged weaponry anyway and Azula, no matter how skilled she is, simply doesn't have the agility to dodge or deflect a bullet (not to mention that squeezing a trigger takes a fraction of the time it takes for firebenders to work their stuff). So basically it will come down to whether Azula can use the terrain and incapacitate Ed before he gets a clear shot, and given the latter's demonstrated abilities at terrain control this won't be terribly easy (e.g. he can remove and create walls). Then again, he isn't a very good shot which balances it out somewhat.


I think Azula has the edge here, because Edward is somewhat hesitant about killing (he even wept over Greed's death), Azula has absolutely no compunctions. And she is an incredible fighter.
He doesn't have to kill her, just incapacitation would be enough.


More importantly I'm pretty sure a bolt of lightening will fry the metal workings of Ed's arm. And I know it needs electricity because it receives the signals from his brain. Can he still do 'clap and transmute' with just one arm or does he need both of them?
He's used alchemy when it was broken in the anime, although it's harder. I'm not sure about it being electrical though, I don't recall there being any suggestion of it in the anime.

[VanBuren]

Can Ed even simply disintergrate people? I know Scar can because his arm lets him, but I've never seen any other alchemist do what he does. Finishing the process for alchemists seems to be hard-wired into their brains, though I'll be honest and say Ed might have done something like that when fighting the one living suit of armor. I don't remember it very well and I know he was thinking about Scar when he won (or was that when he was fighting greed?)

The reason Scar can is that his arm allows to him to transmute incompletely. Alchemy breaks something down to its components and rebuilds it, while Scar's arm just breaks it down. The reason why only Scar does it, is because it never occurs to Alchemists to stop at the second step (and that you need to know the exact composition of what you're breaking down, but Scar's arm tells him that information).

In the battle you reference, Ed explicitly mentions that he's emulating Scar in order to defeat the armor.

[Gungnir]

Azula has demonstrated the ability to use firebending to cut solid objects, with little extra effort. Not to mention that in the scene I have in mind, it was the corner of a brick house. Her bending also tends to explode large rocks. Escape would be pretty simple from a large building like that.

I say let him turn his arm into rubber/whatever you want. She can always cut off the pink, fleshy one too.

[Callos_DeTerran]

He's used alchemy when it was broken in the anime, although it's harder. I'm not sure about it being electrical though, I don't recall there being any suggestion of it in the anime.

It was more so in the movie. When he was giving an explanation to...er...the Gypsy psychic he said that his arm and leg received the electrical signals that his brain was still giving out, which suggests that if they stopped receiving the signals (or whatever parts that took those signals) because of damage or electricity overload it would be problematic.


Alchemy>>>>>>> whatever bending.

Ed can manipulate the matter around him at will. He isn't limited to just one thing, he can create explosions, brick walls, bring in the water, make explosives. It's nor just more advanced, it's much more advanced. Earth bending has several restrictions. Alchemy has few, and with Ed's silver pocket watch, wich contained a piece of the philosopher's stone, the sky is the limit.

Except for the fact that the fake stone was removed (And it was a fake/minor piece of the stone, not the real thing)....so yeah the sky is not the limit. And if you'll notice despite the versatility of alchemy, every alchemists generally has a certain style to them. It focuses their studies so that they can do more within their specialty. Ed, Al, Izumi were the only 'general' alchemists that I remember who study 'everything' instead of refining their studies.

Ed seems to like transforming his arm and going into melee or at least thats what he shows the most preference for. And correct me if I'm wrong, but when has ANY alchemists who uses fire made spinning disks of fire, used them as a mode of transportation, or made blades out of them? I know Mustang never did in the anime. When have any of them condensed a flame to the point it can cut things? Also never seen. Azula can and has done it.


Blast away his arm if you want. Edward lost his arm when fighting the Homunculus and just made a new one out of spare metal around him.

Or he could transform the exterior of his arm into something electrecity resistant. It transformed the matter of his arm when fighting Scar so he couldn't disintrigate it. Transforming it into rubber or something similar should be child's play for the fullmetal alchemist.

You of course mean that he could do such things if he has the materials on hand. Seriously, how the heck does he get rubber from metal? FMA pseudo-science doesn't allow for quite such a leap of faith. And using the metal to make a new hand requires the metal to be on hand. Thus difficult to do in mid-fire fight.


How fast is Ed doing this? Well, he's fast enough to rise a wall from the ground in order to stop bullets from hiting him.

You mean Cornelio? Ed was already raising up the wall before the guy even started firing. Thats not fast, thats reading what the crazy psychotic priest is going to do and acting before he does it. Azula has proved unreadable in such a situation so no good there.


And he managed to disintrigate the animated armor. The only reason he usually doesn't do this with humans it's because he's a nice guy and tries to not kill anyone needlessly.

Well thats good to know, didn't remember if he did or didn't vaporize the armor...and even then he didn't do it in a way to damage the blood seals so again with the moral doubts...


Anyway, Ed can play safe, make himself a bunker, seal all the building exits, then make compress the walls and crush everything inside. It doesn't matter where Azula is or how fast she is, all that's going to be left is a bloody paste.

Assuming he knows theres someone in the building trying to kill him (wasn't stated either), takes the time to put timed circles at all of the exits (opening time for Azula to burn his tiny arse), and risk crushing himself too from a miscalculation. This is of course assuming he has a sudden lack of morals and conscience that would stop him from killing her and she doesn't just break into the bunker and prevent all this 'alchemy without seeing what the hell your doing'.


Bending is as fast as the body. Alchemy is as fast as the mind...

and the parts completing the circuit.

[Sucrose]

I have to disagree with you regarding lightning, Callos. We've only seen her use it twice, as you said. We have little reason to believe that she's improved over the show's running to the point that she doesn't have to be careful what she's doing. Thus, we should assume that the lightning takes a long time, and thus leaves her very open to disruption from Ed.

Also, the surprise factor isn't quite as great for Ed as it is for Azula; he's seen beings doing freaky things that most alchemists are unable to do (the homonculi), whereas there's no humans with powers beyond bending in the world of Avatar.

Re: Azula's firebending skills
Yes, nobody in Fullmetal Alchemist does it, because FIRE DOES NOT WORK THAT WAY[/morbo]. Aside from the process of alchemy itself, the FMA-verse seems to work pretty similarly to our own, so the actions of alchemists beyond the basic act of transmutation (at least mostly) obey physical laws.

Lastly, because his first assumption would be that Azula is a homonculus, Ed would actually have few, if any, moral qualms. For goodness' sake, he was able to re-kill his own mother, after finding out she was a homonculus.

[Callos_DeTerran]

I have to disagree with you regarding lightning, Callos. We've only seen her use it twice, as you said. We have little reason to believe that she's improved over the show's running to the point that she doesn't have to be careful what she's doing. Thus, we should assume that the lightning takes a long time, and thus leaves her very open to disruption from Ed.

My point wasn't that she's improved, it's that we only saw the entire motion DURING practice. The time she actually used it for combat (Actually I think she tried it on Zuko and Iroh diverted it, I'll see if I can find a clip of how fast it was then) they don't show how fast she is able to do it. They just show the lightening and the 'end pose'. Aside from the scene I just remembered and will try to find, they never show how fast Azula can bend lightening. That was my point.


Also, the surprise factor isn't quite as great for Ed as it is for Azula; he's seen beings doing freaky things that most alchemists are unable to do (the homonculi), whereas there's no humans with powers beyond bending in the world of Avatar.

That I can readily admit. I was just saying theres going to be surprise on both sides but it'll only matter for that first strike. Both strike me as intelligent enough for the surprise to wear off very quickly.



Lastly, because his first assumption would be that Azula is a homonculus, Ed would actually have few, if any, moral qualms. For goodness' sake, he was able to re-kill his own mother, after finding out she was a homonculus.

Would his first assumption be that she's a homonculus? She doesn't, openly, have the tattoo or the red dot-and-lines that other homonculus have so I think he'd write it more off to a unique brand of alchemy then anything. Especially if he gets in a non-lethal hit and it doesn't regenerate.

EDIT: Found it. About 3 seconds total before lightening. Thats if that is her fastest speed since she was aiming at a prone Zuko and might have wanted to enjoy the terror on his face.

[Sucrose]

My point wasn't that she's improved, it's that we only saw the entire motion DURING practice. The time she actually used it for combat (Actually I think she tried it on Zuko and Iroh diverted it, I'll see if I can find a clip of how fast it was then) they don't show how fast she is able to do it. They just show the lightening and the 'end pose'. Aside from the scene I just remembered and will try to find, they never show how fast Azula can bend lightening. That was my point.



That I can readily admit. I was just saying theres going to be surprise on both sides but it'll only matter for that first strike. Both strike me as intelligent enough for the surprise to wear off very quickly.




Would his first assumption be that she's a homonculus? She doesn't, openly, have the tattoo or the red dot-and-lines that other homonculus have so I think he'd write it more off to a unique brand of alchemy then anything. Especially if he gets in a non-lethal hit and it doesn't regenerate.

Fair enough regarding your first point, though I'll note that she's not yet used it in a situation where she was being actively attacked, so I would think that means it does take her a lot of time.

For the second, they're across a wide room from each other to start with, and Azula tends to wear concealing clothing, so he wouldn't expect to see the tatoo. Still, he doesn't jump to conclusions about much, and I guess he might chalk it up to the possibility of another alchemical style, so I guess this point's yours. That was probably a rash assumption on my part.

[tyckspoon]

Would his first assumption be that she's a homonculus? She doesn't, openly, have the tattoo or the red dot-and-lines that other homonculus have so I think he'd write it more off to a unique brand of alchemy then anything. Especially if he gets in a non-lethal hit and it doesn't regenerate.


The identifying marks don't have to appear in the open, but I think it's most likely Ed will think Azula is an alchemist. Normal homonculi, IIRC, cannot affect anything other than their own bodies. So when Ed sees somebody throwing fire about, his first idea for disabling that will be to look for the "alchemist's" transmutation circle, like when he cut up Mustang's glove.

[Callos_DeTerran]

Fair enough regarding your first point, though I'll note that she's not yet used it in a situation where she was being actively attacked, so I would think that means it does take her a lot of time.

For the second, they're across a wide room from each other to start with, and Azula tends to wear concealing clothing, so he wouldn't expect to see the tatoo. Still, he doesn't jump to conclusions about much, and I guess he might chalk it up to the possibility of another alchemical style, so I guess this point's yours. That was probably a rash assumption on my part.

As I discovered above, takes about three seconds so I'm guessing she uses it from stealth, in the beginning if she doesn't think they'll expect it, or as a finisher after wearing them down.

[Sucrose]

The identifying marks don't have to appear in the open, but I think it's most likely Ed will think Azula is an alchemist. Normal homonculi, IIRC, cannot affect anything other than their own bodies. So when Ed sees somebody throwing fire about, his first idea for disabling that will be to look for the "alchemist's" transmutation circle, like when he cut up Mustang's glove.

True regarding the homonculi, though Ed is very aware of the one exception.

Anyway, I actually doubt that he'd make a point of trying to take out her transmutation circle. IIRC, the only reason that he did it with Roy is that he knew where to aim, as the location of the circle was relatively obvious.

[thubby]

Ed is an alchemist, seeing science is what he does, what Azula is doing is kind of obvious, even without Ed's skills.
also, i feel there has to be some assumption of hostility here, as neither Ed nor Azula have proven themselves the type to attack random people. sure, she is overly violent/sadistic against those who stand in her way, but she doesn't just attack people.
as to rubber armed Ed, it would be theoretically possible, as he did turn his blade into sodium with no known source.

[Oslecamo]

Lots of stuff.


First, alchemy worksbased on the atomic level.

For example, it is possible to transform water in gaseous hydrogen and oxygen, and trees into paper.

Rubber is an organic substance. His clothes are also made of some organic substance.

Second, why didn't Mustang made blades of fire or other fancy stuff?

Because he doesn't need to. He chooses a place, the place explodes in an Inferno. Whyrisk yourself in melee when you can easily burn the oponent to a crisp from afar? Why fly when you can reach the enemy from where you are, and block any attack he does with more flame explosions?

How hot is Mustang? In the books, he managed to overcome the Homunculu's regeneration to the point it burned and destroyed the philosopher's stone inside them. And he had already lost a significant amount of blood and energy from the combat when he did this(he wanted to try to catch the stone intact). So if he was at full strenght god knows what he can pull off.

Third, alchemy is faster than you think, the action is only slowed for the dramatic effect.

Ed once gets pissed off at Al and they start an alchemy duel, and they manage to make about 2 transmutations per second. With Al needing to spend time to draw the circles.

Armstrong is fast enough to unleash a barrage of transumted rocks at his oponents.

Mustang is fast enough to keep pace with Armstrong and filling said rocks with flame.

Last, your own point turns against you.

Ed managed to realize the psychotic priest would transumte his staff in an heavy machine gun before he did so. Whitout transmutation circles in sight whatsoever. And violating the laws of alchemy he knew.

So, if he can predict what a madman with unknown powers can do, he surely can predict what Azula will do.

Ed has fighted enough oponents with the philoshopher's stone power to expect the unexpected. Azula no.

Actually, if Ed suspects Azula is using a philoshopher's stone(transumtation whitout circles), he will go full power at her.

And he can see her. The battle starts with both at the same room. Ed isn'texactly blind.

[Dorizzit]

How hot is Mustang? In the books, he managed to overcome the Homunculu's regeneration to the point it burned and destroyed the philosopher's stone inside them. And he had already lost a significant amount of blood and energy from the combat when he did this(he wanted to try to catch the stone intact). So if he was at full strenght god knows what he can pull off.

Actually, he just killed her so many times the Philosopher's Stone (which was imperfect) had regenerated her so many times it shorted out.

[Oslecamo]

Actually, he just killed her so many times the Philosopher's Stone (which was imperfect) had regenerated her so many times it shorted out.

My point still holds.

The imperfect stones wich fuel the homunculs still contain the essence of thousands of human lifes.

So, Mustang had to, in a matter of seconds, generate enough heat to kill thousands of people. You know how much heat that is? I'll give you an hint, it's more than enough to, even if Azula dodges, make the air around so hot she'll simply boil alive.

[Dorizzit]

Oh, I wasn't arguing. Mustang would kick Azula's ass.

[Rayzin]

I'd say Azula, she could still leave the building losing Edward a large advantage of the wall creation destruction thing. With only grass and dirt Edward could still create stuff but not as strong as metal or concrete.


He's used alchemy when it was broken in the anime, although it's harder. I'm not sure about it being electrical though, I don't recall there being any suggestion of it in the anime.
It's in the movie. It say's that the arm work's by sending the nerve signals into the arm and read's them. If Azula got some lightning in it it would probably jerk uncontrollably. Then Azula could use her fire to win.

[Oslecamo]

I'd say Azula, she could still leave the building losing Edward a large advantage of the wall creation destruction thing. With only grass and dirt Edward could still create stuff but not as strong as metal or concrete.


Leaving the building won't help Azula very much since Edward can simply make the building go after her.

And even grass and dirt can be transformed into deadly weapons by alchemy.

Dirt has more or less the same atomic components as most stones, so it can be transformed into some really hard stone like granite. Heck, I'll take a granite wall over concrete or a metal wall anyday.

Grass has carbon, oxygen and hydrogen, plus metals in minor quantities. This allows for diamond walls, explosives, whatever Edward is facing.

One simple strategy would be Ed climbing to the roof of the building, create several cannons, and unleash a barrage of artillery in the surrounding grounds. Dodging won't help Azula if there is nowhere to dodge.

But he could do so much else. That's the main advantage of Edward in this battle, he has versatility Azula can only dream off.

I could also argue the peack of his power is also bigger, from what we see Mustang is capable of doing.

Remember, alchemists have an almost limitless supply of energy in the form of the dead souls from our world.

[Rayzin]

Azula uses GOD MODE!!!

Ok I give up. But what if it was a open plane with only tree's?

[Anteros]

Who would win this is based entirely on the situation. If Ed is rescuing Al or something, he will use his full potential and crush Azula in about a second. However, if they are fighting in an arena type match, Azula will probably make a short joke, and Ed will run in like a moron and get cut to pieces.

It's just a matter of how serious Ed is, because at his full potential he far outstrips anything in the Avatar Universe.

[EvilElitest]

Dudes, remember, it is a vs. thread. And in vs. threads, even if it is out of character, they will fight to the death. So Ed would easily use his gun and try to kill Azula even if he wouldn't normally
from
EE

[Lord of Rapture]

Ed: Let's do it!
Azula: *insert random height insult*
*censored for incredibly graphic violence*
Al: Did you have to beat her to death with her own arm?

/sigged. It's just too irresistible.

[Dorizzit]

I got sigged? Cool!

[Callos_DeTerran]

Dudes, remember, it is a vs. thread. And in vs. threads, even if it is out of character, they will fight to the death. So Ed would easily use his gun and try to kill Azula even if he wouldn't normally
from
EE

See I never consider that. Makes it less fun for me. I'd rather come up with a reason why Ed would want to kill Azula then say 'In this Vs.Space-Dimension, morals and inhibitions fall away;.


And to Oslecamo,

Yeah...it's great that he CAN do those things, but when has he ever done them? I believe your thinking of what you'd do in Ed's shoes with his abilities, not what he'd do. Ed prefers melee combat with some style of weapon or transmutation on his auto-mail.

[Oslecamo]

And to Oslecamo,

Yeah...it's great that he CAN do those things, but when has he ever done them? I believe your thinking of what you'd do in Ed's shoes with his abilities, not what he'd do. Ed prefers melee combat with some style of weapon or transmutation on his auto-mail.

And when close combat fails to defeat the oponent, he sucks it up and uses transmutation to finish things.

That's what he did against the armored guy. He couldn't defeat him in melee, so he got bored/mad and simply desitrigated him.

When fighting Scar he kept transumting his arm to a matter wich Scar couldn't disintrigate, working as both shield and sword. He probably can do the same with fire.

After realizing how hard Greed's skin was, he transmuted his skin to something soft wich he could actually hurt.

When fighting in a train, Ed animates the walls to attack his enemies whitout exposing himself.

When fighting Mustang, he made decoys of himself to draw Mustang's atention, cut his glove when he was momentarily distracted, and then conjured the infamous giant cannon.

When fighting the mad priest, he first prepares a trap to show the city the priest is mad, and then animates a giant statue to shut him up. He could have done this from the begginning, but wanted to make sure the city understood he was evil, so he wouldn't need to wreck needlessly violence, as the city was first in the side of the priest.

Unlike most anime characters, Ed knows when a strategy isn't working well. He knows how to adapt to an hard situation by using his alchemy in inovative ways to create a solution to the problem. His martial arts has failed him more than once, and he then would use alchemy to either win or escape safely.

Must I remind you that Ed, after just losing a leg, and still young, managed to make super complicated alchemy to seal his brother's soul in a suit of armor?

He's a master improviser.

And if you need a reason, here's something simple:

Mustang: Edward Elric, there was reported an enemy with great martial skills and mysterious powers in that abandoned building. You must take care of it.

Edward Elric: Great martial skills? Mysterious powers? Either is an homunculus or someone with another fake philosopher stone. Their death shall be swift and painfull for daring to play god and sacrificing countless human lifes on it.

[Callos_DeTerran]

And when close combat fails to defeat the oponent, he sucks it up and uses transmutation to finish things.

He's a master improviser.

I did watch the anime you know, I'm not arguing he'll switch tactics if his preferred style fails him. I'm arguing that in the time he does go into melee with Azula she will have more then enough chances to inflict lots of damage unto him (possibly kill him, theres a semi-decent chance but Ed is no slouch in melee either so I give him better then normal odds), after that it's a matter of what he'll be able to transmute, how fast, and how he'll be doing this if Azula is chasing after him after the first bout.


And if you need a reason, here's something simple:

Mustang: Edward Elric, there was reported an enemy with great martial skills and mysterious powers in that abandoned building. You must take care of it.

Edward Elric: Great martial skills? Mysterious powers? Either is an homunculus or someone with another fake philosopher stone. Their death shall be swift and painfull for daring to play god and sacrificing countless human lifes on it.

The fact that you think that is a good reason reeks of half-assery.

[Oslecamo]

The fact you think Edward will rush mindlessly in melee first thing in battle against a mostly unknown oponent also reeks of half-assery, but nevermind that.

[Selrahc]

Dudes, remember, it is a vs. thread. And in vs. threads, even if it is out of character, they will fight to the death. So Ed would easily use his gun and try to kill Azula even if he wouldn't normally
from
EE

No. That might be how you view a versus thread, but I think that that is a travesty that doesn't take into account the characters and mentality of the people in question.

If you do that then you are not talking about what would happen if the two characters fought, you are talking about what would happen if two beings with the same powers fought.

Constructing circumstances where the opponents would fight each other is fine. Telling them they are in a tournament for a prize or whatever is fine.
Saying that they just don't act in character, for no reason? You're not talking about the characters any more.

[Callos_DeTerran]

The fact you think Edward will rush mindlessly in melee first thing in battle against a mostly unknown oponent also reeks of half-assery, but nevermind that.

Not mostly unknown, unknown. And I admit it's half-assed thinking but I also think it's decidedly more probable then say...animating a building. :smallwink: And as you yourself stated Ed doesn't rush into things mindlessly, especially melee. But he still does prefer melee combat. It's his initial preference. He may not rush in like a fool but he's still gonna try beating her unconscious before anything else.

[Mr. Scaly]

Come to think of it, Ed DOES tend to rush into things without thinking... Against Scar it almost got him killed, and Azula is as ruthless as Scar. And she's certainly better at melee than Ed, the proof being that she's gone head to head with Aang, Katara and Zuko at various times.

[Oslecamo]

Come to think of it, Ed DOES tend to rush into things without thinking... Against Scar it almost got him killed, and Azula is as ruthless as Scar. And she's certainly better at melee than Ed, the proof being that she's gone head to head with Aang, Katara and Zuko at various times.

Almost. There's the critical point. Ed almost dies, but always manages to pull off.

Edward faced several melee monsters at close distance and always managed to escape alive.

We have several chimeras, Scar, the animated armors and Homunculus, all wich would tear Ed apart in close combat if he lowered his defense for a single moment.

Ed may love to rush in melee, but he never does so mindlessly.

He takes very calculated risks, and knows to back off if things start to look nasty, aka before taking severe injuries.

It also depends on wich Ed we're talking.

Ed at the begginning of the series surely loves to take risks, but as the serie advances he matures and starts to be a lot more cautious, especially after fighting scar. He even runs away from the homunculus sometimes.

Since Carlos said we would be assuming Ed has lost his imperfect philosopher stone silver watch, then we're talking about a more mature Ed wich plays safer than normal.