Assassins and multi-death attacks

[DrizztFan24]

Tonight during our session my assassin had the opporunity to pull off a death attack. However, neither my DM nor I knew whether the death attack could apply to both of my attack or only the first one. What do you guys think? Death attack on each attack made during that attack sequence or just on the first one (keeping in mind that everything makes the save regardless so uber cheese and optimizing are not an issue)?

[ColdBrew]

By the wording of Death Attack, you have to study for 3 rounds before every attempt.


If an assassin studies his victim for 3 rounds and then makes a sneak attack with a melee weapon that successfully deals damage, the sneak attack has the additional effect of possibly either paralyzing or killing the target (assassin’s choice).

What does it matter if everything makes the save anyway?

[Svethnika]

I guess that answers that.

[Chronos]

What does it matter if everything makes the save anyway?You give your target multiple opportunities to roll a 1?

[its_all_ogre]

it's a shame because otherwise a whirlwind attacking assassin could be fun!

i know it'd make no sense (studying 4 people for 3 rounds then in one move killing tham all!!) but it'd be funny!

[Fuzzy_Juan]

ya, it is only one strike....logically thinking about it...if you had the right spot after study and hit it...you would kill them...if they made their save, then you had the wrong spot to begin with and need to study again...if you just plain miss the attack, then the place was probably not it anyways and a bit too difficult to hit, so also no dice and back to the drawing board.

One thing I never understood about an assasin...if they study anatomy of creatures to know their weak points and can kill with a strike...why can't they remember where those points are? They have to spend liek 20 seconds hunting for the right spot before they can strike...err...you can't remember the fatal spots? C'mon man...they require a certian level of intelligence...for real!

True it would be horribly unbalanced if they didn't need to study and could just death strike during any sneak attack...but realistically...they should remember the spots well enough to just go for them in a blink.

[lord_khaine]

finding the weak spots that will kill on hit isnt the challenge, any idiot with about an hours education in anatomy could do that.

the assasins trick is to actualy hit that spot in a way that ignores the usual hp-mechanic, proberly by either using some feint or by being really really fast.

[Kurald Galain]

One thing I never understood about an assasin...if they study anatomy of creatures to know their weak points and can kill with a strike...why can't they remember where those points are?

Let's see... this guy is human, too, which means his heart is probably... where, again?

[Patashu]

I'm thinking the time is spent not recalling anatomic knowledge but on seeing how they're moving, what they're doing, judging how they'd react and how to best aim at them. Something like that.

[Khanderas]

I was about to write something here how the death attack was taking 3 rounds to see how a target moves in a fight so they would not be able to do the HP approximation-dodge (turn a stab to the heart into a nick in the shoulder).
But then I realised that it works even when the target is not in a fight so that is not 100% accurate. It should be somewhere along those lines though, make a perfect strike, because you know what the target will do, before the target himself knows.

[Person_Man]

It's worth mentioning that Death Attack is a nerfed mechanic anyway.

Ideally, you want to use it against someone with high hit points - so high that you can't kill them with just your Sneak Attack on the first round. But anyone with high hit points also has a high Fort Save.

Plenty of common enemies are immune to it.

Assassin spells don't progress past ECL 15, and there are only a limited number of PrC that allow your Death Attack Save DC to progress past that point.

And using stealth in the first place is often problematic, because unless everyone in the party uses it, you have to risk being by yourself or at least well ahead of your party. So even if your Death Attack is successful, you then have to wait a few rounds (or minutes) for everyone else in your party to catch up with you. And by that time, the friends of whoever you killed might have taken their revenge on you.

So I'd be open to a variant mechanic. I'm sure they'll have one in 4th ed.

[Draz74]

But anyone with high hit points also has a high Fort Save.

Not 100% true anymore (though close enough for practical purposes). Hexblades and Knights and Soulknives, for example, are strangely lacking good Fort saves, even though they're melee classes with high hit dice.