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View Full Version : Clerics and You: How I learned to worship Kord and love the Bomb



ashmanonar
2008-02-29, 03:30 AM
Okay. A recent close call with a vampire (nasty buggers) has caused my character to reevaluate his path in life. Currently a Barb3/Ftr2/Tribal Protector 1, he has managed to get the remnants of his tribe to safety, out of the way of a bugbear/vampire/i don't know what all invasion. (Vengeance will have to come later).

I originally decided to give my barb a little more wisdom than the average 8 wis brute, so he has a 12. I was kinda stunned when I realized later on that this put me in the running for both the Druid and the Cleric classes; and this near-death experience at the hands of a scary brutal vampire made my character realize that somebody's been looking out for him all along: Kord! Not really a hard-core believer before, he realizes that he's had this little (or booming, i suppose) voice in his head all along that gave him strength and encouragement in fights.

So although I'm pretty sure I want to take a level of Cleric, I may still decide against it if somebody can give me a really good reason why not.

In any case; I'd like some advice or gentle pushes for what sort of spells to prepare (buffs and cures, I'd assume) and what domains to go. I'm thinking Strength (for awesome domain spells) and Luck, just so I have some recourse when the dice decide to stop cooperating.

Also, I can actually pick up Kn Local, which dovetails nicely with the Tribal Protector bonuses.

So: anybody think I'm nuts for going this path? If so, what would be a better option?

EDIT: Okay, so Knowledge Local isn't on the Cleric skill list. Phooey. I may be able to talk my DM into it though.

its_all_ogre
2008-02-29, 03:43 AM
i love it when events in game change a characters direction, sadly this does not happen often, or at all, in my games.
buffs for level 1 cleric: divine favour, i'd grab strength domain myself for strength boost once a day, so characterful and also the enlarge spell as a combat buff.
not a cleric player myself so cannot help further.
also: is this thread title a carter usm quote?!

Skjaldbakka
2008-02-29, 03:47 AM
A word of caution. D&D is not the most forgiving of systems for mid-career build changes. Although I suppose you can't go to far wrong taking cleric for the rest of your career.

daggaz
2008-02-29, 03:49 AM
str domain is crap at lvl one, it gives you a bonus = to cleric level of strength once per day for one round. So at lvl one thats a +1 bonus. Yay... It will, on the other hand, give you access to enlarge person at lvl one, which a barbarian might find enormously handy!

Good lvl one buffs? Bless, Protection from Good/Evil, that anti-bless spell (for your enemies), divine favor, shield of faith.

Id recommend taking a four lvl dip for what its worth. second circle spells are worth it, and it adds a minute to your only enlarge person spell.

Charity
2008-02-29, 03:54 AM
is this thread title a carter usm quote?!

Sheriff Fatman says - No, this is a reference to the subtitle to Dr Strangelove. (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0057012/)

its_all_ogre
2008-02-29, 04:43 AM
i won't access that as i'm at work, however the fact that someone else knows carter makes me happy!
rekindling my love for usm since finding how useful youtube is in tracking down music videos!
the strength domain does have nice spells as you level up, which was why i would go with it, enlarge at your level is very nice.

Kioran
2008-02-29, 04:56 AM
Either go with Cleric full-tilt, for the rest of your build - it can still be cool, be a melee-cleric who buffs himself and heals some people - you´d have lvl 7 spells - or go with a few lvls and continue in a class like War-Priest or one of the Paladin PrCs, so you can nab more BAB and martial features. If you want to go that route, maybe take Practiced spellcaster once or twice, for the CL boost, which gives you duration for your buffs, effect for your cures and makes stuff harder to dispel.
It won´t be optimized, but going Cleric for the Long haul won´t break your back. With some careful optimization, you can even hold pace within some groups - if that´s what you´re looking for.

I´ll go look for PrCs, maybe I´ll be back later.

Charity
2008-02-29, 04:58 AM
Suspicious Aloisius

http://supak.com/store/videos/images/dr-strangelove.jpg

Albonor
2008-02-29, 08:43 AM
I love the idea, it gives your character a lot more depth and will give you many roleplay opportunities. Your wisdom isn't VERY high but still enough if you go for the buffs.

It will of course not be as STRONG as a pure cleric but it will nonetheless give you something to do. If your charisma isn't too abyssal, you can even expect to turn some undead eventually (although it will remain your weakness whil the buffs will always be useful even if easily dispelable).

ashmanonar
2008-02-29, 09:04 AM
I love the idea, it gives your character a lot more depth and will give you many roleplay opportunities. Your wisdom isn't VERY high but still enough if you go for the buffs.

It will of course not be as STRONG as a pure cleric but it will nonetheless give you something to do. If your charisma isn't too abyssal, you can even expect to turn some undead eventually (although it will remain your weakness whil the buffs will always be useful even if easily dispelable).

Yea, honestly, the charisma is the major sticking point. I'm tempted to not even worry about turning undead (as we have a cleric of Pelor in our group who is an undead-killing machine, but also as most of the undead we've faced have been higher hit-dice monsters that our Pelorite has had trouble turning...)

Basically those turn undead uses will be Cure spells.


Either go with Cleric full-tilt, for the rest of your build - it can still be cool, be a melee-cleric who buffs himself and heals some people - you´d have lvl 7 spells - or go with a few lvls and continue in a class like War-Priest or one of the Paladin PrCs, so you can nab more BAB and martial features. If you want to go that route, maybe take Practiced spellcaster once or twice, for the CL boost, which gives you duration for your buffs, effect for your cures and makes stuff harder to dispel.
It won´t be optimized, but going Cleric for the Long haul won´t break your back. With some careful optimization, you can even hold pace within some groups - if that´s what you´re looking for.

I´ll go look for PrCs, maybe I´ll be back later.

I'm really not worrying about "keeping pace", so to speak, but rather just building the character naturally and seeing what comes up in his life.

The cleric -> War-priest route doesn't sound too bad though. What book is that in?


i won't access that as i'm at work, however the fact that someone else knows carter makes me happy!
rekindling my love for usm since finding how useful youtube is in tracking down music videos!
the strength domain does have nice spells as you level up, which was why i would go with it, enlarge at your level is very nice.

The spells are definitely the reason I'm taking Strength domain.

Pyroconstruct
2008-02-29, 09:44 AM
You might want to consider taking Crusader instead; it's got reasonably similar flavor (in that it's faith-based), but unlike Cleric it is a good class to dip into mid-career - a 2-level dip right now would help you quite a bit.

ashmanonar
2008-02-29, 09:46 AM
A word of caution. D&D is not the most forgiving of systems for mid-career build changes. Although I suppose you can't go to far wrong taking cleric for the rest of your career.

Yea, I know. Obviously I don't wanna be inconsequential, but it's something I feel the character would do. I can't take Paladin (unless I take Paladin of Freedom--oh boy, a paladin's asinine restrictive code of honor, just turned around!), and the Wisdom gives me at least a few levels of cleric.

Galdor Miriel
2008-02-29, 09:51 AM
You might consider modifiying this Prc http://webs.lanset.com/mlw/mighty_contender.htm for 3.5 and taking it for even more flavour!

ashmanonar
2008-02-29, 10:04 AM
You might want to consider taking Crusader instead; it's got reasonably similar flavor (in that it's faith-based), but unlike Cleric it is a good class to dip into mid-career - a 2-level dip right now would help you quite a bit.

I thought of it. I'm not sure of how effective I'd be though; my Int isn't high enough to get the skills I'd need for the different combat schools.

How exactly does that work, anyways? How are the different skills tied to the different combat schools?


You might consider modifiying this Prc http://webs.lanset.com/mlw/mighty_contender.htm for 3.5 and taking it for even more flavour!

Interesting...

Comrade Gorby: Please do not post multiple messages in a row and use the Edit option whenever possible instead.

Rayzin
2008-02-29, 10:10 AM
You realise there's a button that say's edit, so you dont need to double or triple post.

Dervag
2008-02-29, 10:24 AM
str domain is crap at lvl one, it gives you a bonus = to cleric level of strength once per day for one round. So at lvl one thats a +1 bonus. Yay... It will, on the other hand, give you access to enlarge person at lvl one, which a barbarian might find enormously handy!So... the domain is crap while simultaneously offering a big boost in the form of powerful and useful spells?

ashmanonar
2008-02-29, 10:31 AM
You realise there's a button that say's edit, so you dont need to double or triple post.

Or, you know, I'm just responding to the posts, and I really don't feel like going through 5 different posts and copy-pasting everything.

Jeez, what is with the self-appointed forum police? There's enough of that at other forums.

Telok
2008-02-29, 10:32 AM
So... the domain is crap while simultaneously offering a big boost in the form of powerful and useful spells?

No, it's crap at level one. Taking Strength and War for about four levels would be very nice for him though, from a strictly domain power angle that is.

ashmanonar
2008-02-29, 10:53 AM
No, it's crap at level one. Taking Strength and War for about four levels would be very nice for him though, from a strictly domain power angle that is.

War domain ain't bad at all, but I'm really really attracted to the Luck domain granted power. One free reroll per day? Yes please.

Human Paragon 3
2008-02-29, 10:56 AM
I recomend the Practiced Spellcaster feat which will boost your caster level by 3. This will be a huge advantage in your spellcasting and healing. Also, bumping your Wis up to 13 at level 8 will let you take Cleric up to 6 if you choose, with a caster level of 9 including Practiced Spellcaster. Sounds good to me! Also, you can't go wrong with a +6 enhancement to your Str with your domain.

Darth Mario
2008-02-29, 11:02 AM
Or, you know, I'm just responding to the posts, and I really don't feel like going through 5 different posts and copy-pasting everything.

Jeez, what is with the self-appointed forum police? There's enough of that at other forums.

Well, there are rules against double and triple and whatever posting, so even if you don't feel like it, you kind of need to. Sooner or later you'll be told off by a mod/admin, and that's a far less pleasant situation than a tap from a fellow playgrounder.

I suggest rereading the Forum Rules (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/announcement.php?a=1).

Kioran
2008-02-29, 11:06 AM
I'm really not worrying about "keeping pace", so to speak, but rather just building the character naturally and seeing what comes up in his life.

The cleric -> War-priest route doesn't sound too bad though. What book is that in?

It´s from complete Divine - it loses half the casting, but gains some SLAs, especially Mass heal, that you might like. This is a class for half-clerics, so to speak. The skill prereqs might be a bit tough on you though......talk to your DM.

#Raptor
2008-02-29, 11:25 AM
Well, you could also take the Champion of Gwynharwyf PRC from the BoED for a very similar flavour. Maybe rename it "Champion of Kord".
Perhaps take the "Serenity" feat at champion lvl 2, so you don't have to push wis AND cha. CoG got 2 totally useless prereq-feats, though.

Illiterate Scribe
2008-02-29, 11:39 AM
Can I recommend the Divine Crusader prestige class, from Complete Divine? It's a 10 level PrC that gives you 9th level spellcasting, only it's all from one domain - since you've already shown an interest in the strength domain, that shouldn't be too bad though.


Well, there are rules against double and triple and whatever posting, so even if you don't feel like it, you kind of need to. Sooner or later you'll be told off by a mod/admin, and that's a far less pleasant situation than a tap from a fellow playgrounder.

I suggest rereading the Forum Rules (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/announcement.php?a=1).

Just as there are rules against being forum police. I suggest rereading the Forum Rules (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/announcement.php?a=1), under vigilante modding - although that of course creates a paradox, since it's impossible to bring that up ...

Tokiko Mima
2008-02-29, 06:10 PM
It's hard to recommend against Cleric. It's such a good class, even to the point of being *too* good. However, if you asked me for other options, I would say your kind of character fits in well with the flavor of the Favored Soul PrC from Complete Divine. It's intentionally a bit more martial than cleric, has full BAB, grants your dieties chosen weapon as a Weapon Focus Feat, a few dei-ariffic special abilities, and spontaneously casts like a Sorcerer.

The downside is that you lose Turn/Rebuke Undead, and Domains.


Just as there are rules against being forum police. I suggest rereading the Forum Rules (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/announcement.php?a=1), under vigilante modding - although that of course creates a paradox, since it's impossible to bring that up ...

Pray to the Forum gods. Only they can save your mortal Login name now!

Oh mighty forum gods, forgive these poor, poor vigilante moderators! They knew not what they did, except for Illiterate Scribe who is paradoxically now in the same dilemna as everyone else!

Illiterate Scribe
2008-02-29, 06:53 PM
Pray to the Forum gods. Only they can save your mortal Login name now!

Oh mighty forum gods, forgive these poor, poor vigilante moderators! They knew not what they did, except for Illiterate Scribe who is paradoxically now in the same dilemna as everyone else!

http://4chanarchive.org/images/v/10440296/1201783728389.jpg

TIME PARADOX.

Darth Mario
2008-02-29, 07:00 PM
Hmmm... Apparently I wasn't clear on the definition of Vigilante Modding. Thought it referred to something a lot more... red, you know?

Found the section on Vigilante Modding in the rules:


Vigilante Modding
If you’re not a Moderator, don’t act like one. Rich has selected a few people he trusts to keep an eye on conversations here. Please refrain from chastising other posters over breaking the rules, especially concerning minor things. The proper response when you see someone breaking these rules is to report the post as discussed above or to a PM to the local Moderator. At most, you may courteously link to this thread. But whatever you do, do not tell other posters what to do, what rules they have broken, that they are "spamming", etc. Posters who do so excessively will be issued an Infraction for their actions.


Ok, so I was slightly over the line. Won't happen again.

Pyroconstruct
2008-02-29, 07:32 PM
I thought of it. I'm not sure of how effective I'd be though; my Int isn't high enough to get the skills I'd need for the different combat schools.

How exactly does that work, anyways? How are the different skills tied to the different combat schools?

Some feats require ranks in the key skill, and a few skills have special abilities tied to ability checks. However, for the most part, you don't really need them. None of the Crusader's three schools relies that much on a key skill.

A 2-level Crusader dip would get +1 to hit/damage most of the time from Furious Counterstrike and a 5-hp temporary buffer against death or unconsciousness, 5 manuevers, and 2 stances. Hmm, actually, I'd recommend 1 more level in something else, then 2 levels in Crusader, so you can snag 3rd-level manuevers off the bat. For example, Revitalizing Strike and White Raven Tactics are both great. Thicket of Blades is amazing if you have a reach weapon; Crushing Weight of the Mountain can be fun for a grappler-type, and Tactics of the Wolf is nice for pretty much anyone.

Mechanically speaking, dipping Crusader is way, way, way better than dipping cleric for you. There's just no comparison. You wouldn't even do badly with a 4-level dip (although I really do recommend 1 more level of something else first, for the 3rd level maneuver acquisition). Hell, you wouldn't even do badly just going straight crusader from where you are.

ashmanonar
2008-02-29, 07:58 PM
Well, there are rules against double and triple and whatever posting, so even if you don't feel like it, you kind of need to. Sooner or later you'll be told off by a mod/admin, and that's a far less pleasant situation than a tap from a fellow playgrounder.

I suggest rereading the Forum Rules (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/announcement.php?a=1).

Fair enough.


Ahha! I'm following the rules! :thog:

Since I've already made the decision, and changed my character sheet, I'm gonna stick with what I've done. But thank you, Pyro, for your advice. I'll consider it for the future.

Dervag
2008-02-29, 08:06 PM
Or, you know, I'm just responding to the posts, and I really don't feel like going through 5 different posts and copy-pasting everything.What I do is, I hit "quote," respond to a post, then use the keyboard shortcut for "cut." Then I go back to the thread and "quote" the next post. I paste in there, and just keep going.

It really doesn't take much longer.


No, it's crap at level one. Taking Strength and War for about four levels would be very nice for him though, from a strictly domain power angle that is.OK, now I understand.


TIME PARADOX.How... how did you do that thing with the portals? What did the surface look like before you put them? I can't figure out the geometry.

SurlySeraph
2008-02-29, 08:06 PM
I strongly recommend Favored Soul. Full BAB so you can keep Power Attacking to your heart's content, and lots of spells per day so you get a decent reward even for taking just one level. The problem is that it has charisma-based casting and wisdom-based DCs. So you'd need decent charisma to make it work as well, unless you can find a feat to let you use your wisdom modifier in place of your charisma modifier.


TIME PARADOX.

That paradox is impossible to resolve. Quit now and cake will be served immediately.

ashmanonar
2008-02-29, 08:44 PM
I strongly recommend Favored Soul. Full BAB so you can keep Power Attacking to your heart's content, and lots of spells per day so you get a decent reward even for taking just one level. The problem is that it has charisma-based casting and wisdom-based DCs. So you'd need decent charisma to make it work as well, unless you can find a feat to let you use your wisdom modifier in place of your charisma modifier.



That paradox is impossible to resolve. Quit now and cake will be served immediately.

Mmmmm. Cake.

Edit:

Just in looking at the Favored Soul, one thing kinda bothers me: it says that they cast from an innate connection, rather than prayer and study; and frankly, I wouldn't want to just say "Oh, suddenly Kord decided to give me divine magic!" I'd rather it were something that required sacrifice and effort, so to speak. Conscious decision lends to better role-playing than Deus Ex Machina, for me.

Also, it doesn't seem to be full BAB.