PDA

View Full Version : Malconvoker build



RebelRogue
2008-03-01, 07:04 AM
I'm moving this from the character builder thread, as I think I'll get more response in a separate thread. I hope no one minds :)

I'm considering playing a malconvoker for my next character. There's no actual campaign planned, so I don't know what level we're dealing with, but in my mind it's somewhere in the range of 10-15. I haven't decided on a race yet, but I'm thinking Human or perhaps Gnome.

Anyway, my idea so far is to take 6 levels in Sorcerer with highest stat in Charisma, obviously, next highest in Intelligence (I need it for the prereqs of languages and cross-class skills in Knowledge (The Planes)), maxing Bluff ranks and taking on a Snake familiar. Then PrC to Malconvoker (and possibly Nar Demonbinder after that, or perhaps a mix?)

Basically, I'm looking for cool ideas regarding spell choices. As a sorcerer it's always critical to choose the right spells. I obviously want lots of conjuration spells, but one also has to be careful not to become a one-trick pony. The Unrestricted Conjuration class feature allows me to cast conjuration spells with the Evil descriptor without consequences, so I'm on the lookout for those, other than the usual Summonings (and I don't have access to a Book of Vile Darkness right now, but I'm guessing there might be some there).

Also, I'm not sure about Feat choices. Metamagic is never bad, but other than that I haven't thought up any specifics.

So, all in all it's nothing really important, but inputs will be appreciated none-the-less :)

Xefas
2008-03-01, 08:52 AM
I give unto you Mastering the Malconvoker (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?p=13677754#post13677754). Not only does it give you all the info you need about optimizing one (including race, base class, skills, feats, etc), it also links to various other useful threads (like ones about what the best monsters to summon are with any given spell).

RebelRogue
2008-03-01, 09:05 AM
I give unto you Mastering the Malconvoker (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?p=13677754#post13677754). Not only does it give you all the info you need about optimizing one (including race, base class, skills, feats, etc), it also links to various other useful threads (like ones about what the best monsters to summon are with any given spell).
Oooh! Shiny! Thanks :smallcool:

Quirinus_Obsidian
2008-03-01, 11:26 AM
Your DM will hate you, but this is shiny and new! Thanks!

Ultimatearcane
2008-05-02, 01:44 PM
I find going into Magical Trickster after Malconvoker to be beneficial. Use the bonus Metamagic Feat to get Twin Spell. Use the Magical Trickster's third level ability to apply Twin Spell to a Summon Monster IX spell to summon a grand total of 4 Fiendish Colossal Monstrous Spiders once per day. Add Haste, Rage, and a Bard and you have a nice little (or rather big) group of monsters. Of course personally I prefer the Alienist as I can get the extra metamagic feats while still keeping the monsters that matter one way or another. (Summon Elemental Monolith, Heavenly Host, Hellish Hoard, Abyssal Army.)

namo
2008-05-03, 05:54 AM
Note that Spiders can't benefit from Bardic Music since it's a mind-affecting effect. Also, in what situation would you really need 4 spiders ? Two already take a lot of space...

Adumbration
2008-05-03, 06:58 AM
I find going into Magical Trickster after Malconvoker to be beneficial. Use the bonus Metamagic Feat to get Twin Spell. Use the Magical Trickster's third level ability to apply Twin Spell to a Summon Monster IX spell to summon a grand total of 4 Fiendish Colossal Monstrous Spiders once per day. Add Haste, Rage, and a Bard and you have a nice little (or rather big) group of monsters. Of course personally I prefer the Alienist as I can get the extra metamagic feats while still keeping the monsters that matter one way or another. (Summon Elemental Monolith, Heavenly Host, Hellish Hoard, Abyssal Army.)

Don't ever combine Alienist with Malconvoker. If you do, it's bye-bye to evil monster summons. It's in the guide, I think.

In any case good luck with the Malconvoker! I played one with a cleric a bit ago, was fun. The fiendish t-rexes rule pretty nicely - mine managed to swallow altogether 4 arrowdemons. :smallbiggrin:

Anything with nice grapple checks help, along with spiders - the enemies are bound to fail their checks at some point. Also look into SLAs of various summonables, they're really useful.

Ultimatearcane
2008-05-06, 12:16 PM
Note that Spiders can't benefit from Bardic Music since it's a mind-affecting effect. Also, in what situation would you really need 4 spiders ? Two already take a lot of space...

Actually, once a creature gains the Fiendish Template their Int becomes at least 3. They lose their vermin qualities in place of the magical beast qualities. Also having 4 spiders of that size out (If done right, then as a swift action) is a very potent ability even if it is once per day. Suddenly fighting say a Tarrasque or a Pit Fiend or a Balor or Dragon of some sort just got a little easier. I'd also consider Residual Metamagic to get Twin Spell again on the next Summon Monster spell, but at that point you've used up most of your ninth level spells and having 8 spiders on the battlefield is just overkill in addition to using the feat for only one spell per day. Though I am sure you could find some other uses for it.

Ultimatearcane
2008-05-06, 12:18 PM
Don't ever combine Alienist with Malconvoker. If you do, it's bye-bye to evil monster summons. It's in the guide, I think.

In any case good luck with the Malconvoker! I played one with a cleric a bit ago, was fun. The fiendish t-rexes rule pretty nicely - mine managed to swallow altogether 4 arrowdemons. :smallbiggrin:

Anything with nice grapple checks help, along with spiders - the enemies are bound to fail their checks at some point. Also look into SLAs of various summonables, they're really useful.

Actually, I didn't mean go Malconvoker AND Alienist. I was just saying I prefer to go a full Alienist over the Malconvoker for flavor and its unique class features.

Benejeseret
2008-05-06, 01:26 PM
Hellborn, race from Tyrants of Hell. Lets you summon/use spells of Evil descriptor with no consequence on your soul. It also can grant +2Cha so makes a great sorcerer.

In fact, in almost every possible way Hellborn matches up very well with Malconvoker.

Chosen_of_Vecna
2008-05-06, 01:41 PM
Hellborn, race from Tyrants of Hell. Lets you summon/use spells of Evil descriptor with no consequence on your soul. It also can grant +2Cha so makes a great sorcerer.

In fact, in almost every possible way Hellborn matches up very well with Malconvoker.

Except that Sorcerers are the worse Malconvoker base class that can still qualify other then Bard.

Cuddly
2008-05-06, 02:09 PM
For a sorc, you're going to want to get heighten spell. This makes your level 1 & 2 debuffs (grease, glitterdust) level 8 debuffs.

You may also want to consider using a cheesedragonwrought kobold, instead of a human. That way, you get +3 to all your mental stats and get new spells when the wizard gets new spells. Unfortunately, that may be too feat heavy. Kobolds are fairly decent casters, anyway, esp. if you use the variety without a con penalty.

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-05-06, 02:11 PM
Cuddly, did you miss CoV's post?

Don't go Sorc as a Malkonverter. There are just too many problems with it, despite the synergy.

Cuddly
2008-05-06, 02:12 PM
No; I ignored it.

Hyrael
2008-05-06, 02:35 PM
Been there, done that, drawn the magic circle. And no, Sorceror is NOT the worst class. the reason: Charisma, and Bluff as a class skill.

I went from level 5 to 24 with a fiendbinding sorceror. and it was very, very fun. I managed to be extremely powerful without twinking or powergaming, and focusing on flavor.

Spells were almost exclusively conjuration,
Danage:
I used Acid for area effects, and Acid/Cold for specific Targets. Acid Sheathe was nice to have, and the Orb spells were good up to high levels. Arcane fusion, Benighn and Baleful transposition, Black Tentacles, Icelance, Magic Circle against evil, you name it. My ultimate rape spell was black blade of disaster.

Benign/Baleful transposition combo'd with summoned creatures=godlike power, and Dimension door at a very low level.

The point of being a summoner was to be a one-man army. to that end, I'd make use of your familiar. Take Improved Familiar (your DC would probably allow you to upgrade to another snake-like monster instead of actualy having to dismiss your original) to pick up something more badass, and take Imbue Familiar With Spell Ability to get even more actions. Make use of Share Spells to give your familiar mage armor, and send it in to deliver touch spells. yes, conjuration has touch spells.

My favorite "desperation" tactic was to desperately charge the enemy, and scream "get ready to meet...THE MORMONS" and plane-shift their asses to heaven. since I fought alot of demons and so forth, this was a dire threat.

you're in for a wild ride. By the way, the best level 4 summon is the MMIII's Yugoloth Voor.

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-05-06, 02:47 PM
The problem with a Sorc Malkonverter is the same one you always have. There aren't enough spells known to do what you need to do. You need the entire Summon Monster line (and probably will want to keep most of them), enchantments, Geas/Quest, AoE buff spells, and the usual Batman stuff. Meanwhile, you are 2 spell levels behind where you should be, and you can't afford he skill points necessary to do your job, and you still have all the weaknesses of a traditional Sorcerer compared to a Wizard like lack of access to the good alternate class features, without the benefit that you usually enjoy because you are casting the exact same spell combos repeatedly.

Cuddly
2008-05-06, 02:56 PM
The problem with a Sorc Malkonverter is the same one you always have. There aren't enough spells known to do what you need to do. You need the entire Summon Monster line (and probably will want to keep most of them), enchantments, Geas/Quest, AoE buff spells, and the usual Batman stuff. Meanwhile, you are 2 spell levels behind where you should be, and you can't afford he skill points necessary to do your job, and you still have all the weaknesses of a traditional Sorcerer compared to a Wizard like lack of access to the good alternate class features, without the benefit that you usually enjoy because you are casting the exact same spell combos repeatedly.

Dragonwrought kobold makes gives +3 int and bumps your spellcasting up. If you really want to cheese out, take loredrake.

Also, not being batman isn't nearly as big a deal as you think it is. You still have a whole buttload of summoned monsters you can use to solve problems with unique abilities (like burrow!), you're still a full caster, and you can use the summoning domain from complete champion to pick up all the summon monster spells and get +2 to CL for summoning.

UserClone
2008-05-06, 03:10 PM
Where in the feat "Dragonwrought" does it say that you get any ability score increase? Or are we ignoring Cuddly at this point?:smallwink: (just kidding, Cuddly)

Cuddly
2008-05-06, 03:12 PM
You can advance age categories without penalty, since you're now a dragon.

Benejeseret
2008-05-06, 04:04 PM
Bags of Tricks

Should have a few in your pocket as a summoner at all times. Ultimate tag-team devils of doom are cool...but sometime you just need a rhino, a trap monkey, or a flanker.

Alternatively look into the SRD variant that gives an Animal Companion in place of a familiar at 1/2 level. Gives yet another body between you and the nasties and you can always take the Obtain Familiar Feat to get another....alternatively the Wild Cohort feat for a companion.....or both.

Chosen_of_Vecna
2008-05-06, 05:24 PM
The problem with being a Malconvoker Sorcerer has nothing to do with spells known, heightening grease, or AoE control spells which are all parts of not being a Malconvoker.

The reason Sorcerer is the worst base class is because you could be a Cleric casting the exact same spells, more times a day, in armor, with more hit points, and a +2 to your CL relative to the Sorcerer. Meanwhile every time you cast a spell you have to wait for everyone else to go, get attacks on you, thus forcing concentration checks on you, and then your monsters finally show up.

The reason Wizard is better is because you cast those Summon Monster spells as a Standard action, and then all your monsters get a standard action. So you don't stand around asking someone to interrupt your spells.

So depending on how much you like HP/BAB, versus standard action summoning, either Cleric or Wizard makes the best Malconvoker. Sorcerer is third since it has no benefits at all over either.

Criz Reborn
2008-05-06, 09:49 PM
Why would anyone want to do sorcerer/ malconvoker anyways? A focused specialist conjurer (see complete mage for focused template) will give you as many spells/day as a sorcerer anyways and way more spells known. As a Malconvoker youll mostly be casting the same spell a lot anyways so spontanious casting isnt a great advantage.

Then you apply the conjurer options to trade in your familiar and scribe scroll for augment summoning with extra bonuses and the ability to summon as a standard action and, thus, can be quickened as well as other obvious bonuses.

If you do go Focused Specialist Conjurer, I highly recommend dropping evocation, enhancement, and necromancy. Also, pick up the reserve feat summon elemental (also in complete mage I believe.)