New linear guild members!

[TheAlmightyOne]

Think about this. Nale said that he needed new members, the two assassins have just been shown decideing to give up on their contract to kill the king of Nowhere. Both the assassins and the LG have personal grudges against the order. Also they are on pretty much other sides of the world but thats nothing a quick shadow jump cant handle. Although I don't quite see whos opposites they would be. Any ideas?

DISCLAIMER: This theory will never come true, nor was this theory intended to be serious. It just amused me

[Querzis]

The assassins really dont seems evil enough to join the Linear Guild anyway. But I wonder if we'll see them again, maybe Kubota will hire them to kill Hinjo or something.

[TheAlmightyOne]

The assassins really dont seems evil enough to join the Linear Guild anyway. But I wonder if we'll see them again, maybe Kubota will hire them to kill Hinjo or something.

That would make more sense

[Shades of Gray]

Evil Dwarf who kills for a living.
Opposite to Durkon, a LG ddwarf who heals for a living.

I don't see how the ninja would be an opposite though.

[BRC]

Maybe the Dwarf gets belkars old mount as an animal companion to counteract Mr Scruffy?

[LordSintax]

Evil Dwarf who kills for a living.
Opposite to Durkon, a LG ddwarf who heals for a living.

I don't see how the ninja would be an opposite though.

agreed for the dwarf. and he's not really a ninja per se, but a shadowdancer. basically the same thing, but i'm feeling a little like nitpicking at the moment:redface:
and he doesnt really qualify as anyone's opposite. at a stretch, maybe Roy, cause Roy's all NOT stealthy, and a shadowdancer IS, but like I said, a real stretch. besides,m Thog is Roy's bizarro twin

[boomwolf]

Belkar?

Both are stealthy classes, one suck in his class and use no features, one uses the features to full.
The real twist is that the "good" twin is far more evil then the "evil" one.

[Shades of Gray]

Maybe he's V's opposite?

V always thinks thing through. (example when they get to the crossroads with the lier and truth-teller)
Ninja (@Lord Sintax:smalltongue: ), doesn't think things through (taking shadowdancer when there are no shadows.

[SPoD]

I have a different theory: This is the last we will ever see or hear of the two assassins. This is the epilogue to their story: they tried to go after the King of Nowhere again, got scared off, and never crossed paths with the main cast ever again.

[Morty]

I have a different theory: This is the last we will ever see or hear of the two assassins. This is the epilogue to their story: they tried to go after the King of Nowhere again, got scared off, and never crossed paths with the main cast ever again.

Now you're just talking crazy.:smallwink:

[Quorothorn]

Evil Dwarf who kills for a living.
Opposite to Durkon, a LG ddwarf who heals for a living.

I don't see how the ninja would be an opposite though.

The dwarf is more likely Neutral than Evil: he didn't want to hurt any innocents at the inn, remember?

[Chronos]

The dwarf is more likely Neutral than Evil: he didn't want to hurt any innocents at the inn, remember?Or maybe he's just not quite as evil as Xykon. Remember Rich's view of effective villains: Everyone has some limit they won't go past.

[Querzis]

Or maybe he's just not quite as evil as Xykon. Remember Rich's view of effective villains: Everyone has some limit they won't go past.

I dont think their alignement matter much. I woudnt qualify them evil, maybe they are though but it doesnt matter with the Linear Guild. We already saw that they dont want to kill innocent so they wont join a fiend, a crazed half-orc who goes on boredom driven rampage and a guy ready to kill hundred of people just to make his twin brother suffer.

Maybe they are evil, even if I doubt it but they are just not evil enough for the Linear Guild either way.

By the way, I doubt they were scared by Thanh. From the fight we saw, I'm quite sure they would have been able to kill him and they didnt even knew his level. I think they didnt attack because he was a paladin and they are not paid enough to attack a champion of good.

[strayth]

Belkar?
The real twist is that the "good" twin is far more evil then the "evil" one.

Along this line I still think Belkar's opposite would be an Archon or something very good, heh.

[NerfTW]

By the way, I doubt they were scared by Thanh. From the fight we saw, I'm quite sure they would have been able to kill him and they didnt even knew his level. I think they didnt attack because he was a paladin and they are not paid enough to attack a champion of good.

Now we're rationalizing that the bad guys aren't evil either? :smallconfused:

[Tempest Fennac]

The Assassins may not have been evil: they hated the idea of killing innocents, and we don't know why they want to kill the King of Nowhere.

[Burley]

Well, there are two things we should all try to remember:
1)The Giant throws tiny things into his comic all the time, and it's not always just for a joke. He's good at fore-shadowing.
2)The Giant also explains most of the little things in due time. He's good at tying up loose ends.

He could just as easily NOT showed the two assassins, and it wouldn't have hurt the story, at all. In my opinion, the fact that he threw them in there without any set up for the joke, makes me think that there is something important there.
If I were to make some outrageous theory about the assassins, I'd say that they were originally hired by Kubota to get rid of all powerful contacts in the allied countries to prepare for the overthrowing of Azure. I'd venture to say that they don't know WHY they were sent to kill the King of Nowhere, but they do know WHO sent them, and when they saw a Saphire Paladin, they decided they may be too close to capture for comfort.
If I were to get even more outrageous, I'd say that the Shadowdancer helps out the OotS, towards the end, by shawowjumping into the only shadow we ever really see: The Umbrella held by the Monster in the Darkness. It'd be horribly ineffective, but it'd give him some sort of use. (Maybe he tackles the MitD and Shadow jumps with him into the Shadow Plane, never to return, thus saving the OotS at the last moment.)

[SoD]

Actually, he can only shadow jump (by the rules) a certain amout a day. At 10th level Shadowdancer, that's, what? 70 feet?

[Kurald Galain]

Yes, they can be assassins and not be evil, but if they actually are Assassins, that prestige class has a strict alignment prereq...

[Shhalahr Windrider]

Or maybe he's just not quite as evil as Xykon. Remember Rich's view of effective villains: Everyone has some limit they won't go past.
Exactly.

And, heck, not killing innocents doesn't even have to be a moral or ethical objection. It can also be purely a matter of acting with professionalism. It's a poor assassin that has to kill anyone other than the target. And that's the only motive "I don't get paid by the body count (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0229.html)" implies.

[Jayabalard]

Exactly.

And, heck, not killing innocents doesn't even have to be a moral or ethical objection. It can also be purely a matter of acting with professionalism. It's a poor assassin that has to kill anyone other than the target. And that's the only motive "I don't get paid by the body count (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0229.html)" implies.Agreed.... Nil Mortifi, Sine Lvcre

[Zappy]

If I were to get even more outrageous, I'd say that the Shadowdancer helps out the OotS, towards the end, by shawowjumping into the only shadow we ever really see: The Umbrella held by the Monster in the Darkness. It'd be horribly ineffective, but it'd give him some sort of use. (Maybe he tackles the MitD and Shadow jumps with him into the Shadow Plane, never to return, thus saving the OotS at the last moment.)

I would say this would also be a good way to keep the MitD hidden and unseen yet at the same time give a good end to his story.

[Querzis]

And, heck, not killing innocents doesn't even have to be a moral or ethical objection. It can also be purely a matter of acting with professionalism. It's a poor assassin that has to kill anyone other than the target. And that's the only motive "I don't get paid by the body count (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0229.html)" implies.

...there is a difference between not killing everyone you see and putting yourself and your partner in danger because you dont want to kill anyone else then the king. The dwarf knew very well he was going to be captured and/or killed if he didnt blew up the damn building and he still didnt wanted to do it!

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0241.html

Anyway, as I said, evil or not it just doesnt matter. If they arent ready to do that, they arent ready to do what the Linear Guild do everyday.

[David Argall]

1)The Giant throws tiny things into his comic all the time, and it's not always just for a joke. He's good at fore-shadowing.
He is also good at tying things up, and the frame does that, showing the assassins deciding to ditch the job of killing the king. [That it may show a reason for everyone to assume Roy was the king is rather a flaw. It somewhat detracts from the joke.] So we have no grounds for assuming any foreshadowing is present.


He could just as easily NOT showed the two assassins, and it wouldn't have hurt the story, at all.
Given we have had posters wondering what happened to the assassins, this seems incorrect. The scene is useful simply in telling us their fate.


In my opinion, the fact that he threw them in there without any set up for the joke, makes me think that there is something important there.
The opposite is the case. The return of Xykon and the return of the Linear Guild each took us away from the party for 5-10 pages. A one-picture appearance that gives us no clue they are heading after the party is very much not sufficient setup for anything important, or even minor. If they do appear again [unlikely], they will still need about the same amount of explanation.


If I were to make some outrageous theory about the assassins, I'd say that they were originally hired by Kubota to get rid of all powerful contacts in the allied countries to prepare for the overthrowing of Azure.
Entirely unlikely. Nowhere's location is uncertain, but way far away from Azure City. Its ability to influence who is the city ruler is almost certainly zero. The King of Nowhere has his own set of enemies, who probably have never heard of Lord Kubota, and vice-versa.


when they saw a Saphire Paladin, they decided they may be too close to capture for comfort.
They say "a paladin", not "A Saphire Guard Paladin". So no, all they see is another bothersome guard, in this case the straw that breaks the camel's back.

[Shhalahr Windrider]

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0241.html
Ach. Forgot about that one. Points a bit more towards the conscience bit, then. :smallredface:

[Green Bean]

By the way, I doubt they were scared by Thanh. From the fight we saw, I'm quite sure they would have been able to kill him and they didnt even knew his level. I think they didnt attack because he was a paladin and they are not paid enough to attack a champion of good.

Or, they might not want to attack Thanh because he's a representative of a rather powerful order of paladins.

[Burley]

He is also good at tying things up, and the frame does that, showing the assassins deciding to ditch the job of killing the king. [That it may show a reason for everyone to assume Roy was the king is rather a flaw. It somewhat detracts from the joke.] So we have no grounds for assuming any foreshadowing is present.
Yeah...I know...I said that...Two lines later...



Given we have had posters wondering what happened to the assassins, this seems incorrect. The scene is useful simply in telling us their fate.
Given that The Giant has said before that he writes his own comic, not what the posters want to know about, it can be as correct as I bloody well want it to be.:smallwink:



The opposite is the case. The return of Xykon and the return of the Linear Guild each took us away from the party for 5-10 pages. A one-picture appearance that gives us no clue they are heading after the party is very much not sufficient setup for anything important, or even minor. If they do appear again [unlikely], they will still need about the same amount of explanation.
Entirely unlikely. Nowhere's location is uncertain, but way far away from Azure City. Its ability to influence who is the city ruler is almost certainly zero. The King of Nowhere has his own set of enemies, who probably have never heard of Lord Kubota, and vice-versa.
They say "a paladin", not "A Saphire Guard Paladin". So no, all they see is another bothersome guard, in this case the straw that breaks the camel's back.

I know that I threw in something like: "The Giant also explains most of the little things in due time." In fact, I Ctrl+C+P'd that, so...yeah. Maybe he doesn't want to throw the Exposition of the two right now, because he's already in the middle of another exposition.
If Kubota, a high ranking noble with spies all over the place, doesn't know about the King of Nowhere, when Sapphire Paladins are being sent to visit...then something is wakko. Azure has allies all over the world (as exposed with Hinjo talking about their various allies during the wedding on the boat) and Nowhere is probably one of the closer ones, since they sent a low level paladin there, and sent a high level paladin (Miko) all the way to the Dwarven Lands, which aren't all THAT far away... I understand that Miko was sent because she's annoying, but I purposefully forget that. :smallamused:
Finally, nobody says Sapphire Guard Paladin ever single time. They say Paladin, because it's easy. You can't possibly assume that they DON'T know he's Azurian, and tell me that I can't assume that they DO know he is.

In any case, I repeatedly said this is an outragious think-a-majig. Much like the other dozen people with outragious think-a-majigs...including the outragious think-a-majig that you tried to quip me with. :smallwink:

[David Argall]

Given that The Giant has said before that he writes his own comic, not what the posters want to know about,
It doesn't matter here how much our writer lets us augment the story [he does some minor amount, and probably would be better off having us do more]. Here, the posters are being used as a measure of the general reading public, not whether they actually guide the artist's hand. Since we do have posters who want to know what happened with the assassins, we deduct with fair confidence that a notable percentage of the reader, either of the strip or later books, will want to know, which produces the conclusion that the story is superior for telling us, whether the writer decided this entirely on his own, or some overly eager fans burst into his house and made him draw it at gunpoint.


it can be as correct as I bloody well want it to be
True from your personal view, but your original statement had a less subjective base, the view of the "average" reader.


If Kubota, a high ranking noble with spies all over the place, doesn't know about the King of Nowhere,
He may well know about the King, but that is not what is said here. Would he know who the king's enemies were? And would these same enemies know of Kubota? We are talking of an order of magnitude or two greater knowledge.
It comes down to saying that the king of Nowhere has his own "Lord Kubota", who is much more likely to be behind any attacks on the king.


Nowhere is probably one of the closer ones, since they sent a low level paladin there, and sent a high level paladin (Miko) all the way to the Dwarven Lands, which aren't all THAT far away.
Our standard [vague guess] map has the Dwarven lands quite far away and Nowhere some place closer, but far from near. However, the use of a low level paladin argues for a low priority, not a low distance. Since Thant could not do anything beyond deliver messages and give general statements, he would have been worthless in dealing with an important ally. He was much more suited for dealing with a less important state who didn't care much about Azure City either.


nobody says Sapphire Guard Paladin ever single time. They say Paladin, because it's easy.
They would do so in Azure city, where virtually all paladins would be members of the SG. Hundreds of miles away, the Saphire Guard is only one of several orders of paladins. So this shortening is not correct.


You can't possibly assume that they DON'T know he's Azurian, and tell me that I can't assume that they DO know he is.

There is not a symmetry here. They can either know or not know Thant is a member of the SG when they say he is a paladin and decide the pay is too low. This additional fact is not important. But to assume there was some involvement with Azure City, we would have to assume they knew he was a member of SG.

[TorJin]

It seems to me that the blue armor and ridiculous blue facial hair Thanh is sporting would clue the assassins in as to where he's from, and since they know he's a paladin, they could probably figure out which Order of paladins he belongs to.

The OoTS may not have known that Miko was Azurian by looking at her, but I think the OoTS may have significantly less geographical knowledge than assassins sent to kill kings.

To clarify my somewhat muddled thoughts: Thanh is visiting the King of Nowhere. This implies that Azure City and Nowhere are at least friendly to each other, if not allies. Now, if I were one of the assassins, I would try my hardest to figure out who exactly I'd be pissing off by killing the king. This would lead me to Azure City. So when I go to kill the king, and see the blue haired, blue armored paladin standing there, my first thought would be "Oh crap, an Azure City paladin!"





I am aware of holes in my argument...for instance, I'm assuming these assassins are smart. They didn't even know what the King of Nowhere looked like during the tavern attack, so I might be ascribing far too much intelligence to them. Still, I do think that their appearance in the comic shouldn't be overlooked.

[Syraider]

what new member of lienar guild??

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click my dragons
http://dragcave.ath.cx/image/g7z1.gif (http://dragcave.ath.cx/viewdragon/g7z1)http://dragcave.ath.cx/image/b6ZO.gif (http://dragcave.ath.cx/viewdragon/b6ZO)
click my dragons

[David Argall]

Azure City and Nowhere are at least friendly to each other, if not allies. Now, if I were one of the assassins, I would try my hardest to figure out who exactly I'd be pissing off by killing the king. This would lead me to Azure City. So when I go to kill the king, and see the blue haired, blue armored paladin standing there, my first thought would be "Oh crap, an Azure City paladin!"

But as noted, this is not their first thought. They merely label him a paladin. They don't seem to care where he is from. And this makes reasonable sense. No matter where he is from, he is going to do his best to make their job harder. If we assume they are already discouraged from the inn, or had just found the job harder than they expected, they need no knowledge of Azure City to decide enough is enough and quit.

And when we come down to it, what do paid assassins care about politics? They kill the king? They are not worried about what alliances this will upset. They worry about escape and being paid. It is their employer who will do any worrying like that. And it seems pretty clear he didn't give them any instructions not to kill in the presence of a Azure City paladin.

It is of course possible we will see these two again, but the picture is much more likely to be the last we see of them rather than a hint we will be seeing them again.

[Dallas-Dakota]

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