View Full Version : Would this spell combo work?

2008-03-04, 12:27 PM
Maze + Transdimentional Fireball?

Maze sticks them in an extradimentional space, and Transdimentional Spell allows spells to affect people in extradimentional spaces... That sounds too cheesy to be real. Otherwise that is a real duel winner. Even a super pimped out Wizard only has a rough 50/50 chance to get out of a Maze in one round. Rod of Maximize plus Transdimentional Fireball (or other suitable non-target spell) equals one pissed off opponent when they finally get out.

2008-03-04, 12:34 PM
The question is...why? Just fireball them if you really want to. By the time you can Maze people, you probably shouldn't fireball anyways.

Kurald Galain
2008-03-04, 12:40 PM
It probably works, but is hardly a duel winner, or a good combo for that matter.

2008-03-04, 01:02 PM
Maze + transdimensional anything then. There are certainly better uses than fireball. I think the OP was asking whether transdimensional spell would work to hit opponents in a maze, so he could take potshots at them till they escaped.

2008-03-04, 02:01 PM
The text of maze implies that the target is no longer in that location in any meaningful sense, not even in an adjacent dimension.

2008-03-04, 03:04 PM
Maze + fireball is kinda worthless. Maze + transdimensional other stuff might be decent, though... Maze doesn't allow a save, so you could just chuck someone into a maze and then throw transdimensional save-or-dies at them until you win (assuming they don't have a high int, at least.)

However. Remember: "You must be able to perceive a creature to specifically target it with a spell, but you do not need to perceive a creature to catch it in the area of a burst, cone, emanation, or spread." So that limits the things you can use. The +1 adjustment for transdimensional spell limits it further, and if you're a prepared caster you're limited even more by having to have them ready in advance (making this combo almost worthless outside of theoretical stuff.)

And that assumes it even works. Now, Maze says: "You banish the subject into an extradimensional labyrinth of force planes." And Transdimensional Spell says: "A transdimensional spell has full, normal effect upon incorporeal creatures, creatures on the Ethereal Plane or Plane of Shadow, and creatures within an extradimensional space in the area affected."

Maze also says: "On escaping or leaving the maze, the subject reappears where it had been when the maze spell was cast." This could be taken to mean that the maze is elsewhere geographically and not just dimensionally; but it could also be taken to mean that the 'movement' inside the maze won't actually have moved you anywhere when you escape (e.g. if you end up walking a hundred feet north inside the maze, then escape, you'll still appear where you started back on your original plane.)

My gut feeling is that it does work... Maze says extradimensional, transdimensional spell specifies extradimensional, and there's nothing in Maze that specifically moves you elsewhere.

Although, in theory, someone in the maze could still 'run away' from someone in the real world, which could get complicated... without a way to perceive them, you couldn't really chase them, either. Or even know that they've moved away from the point you're extradimensional fireballing / whatever... that makes this pretty worthless, really.

Squash Monster
2008-03-04, 03:27 PM
If you can do this (and my gut feeling is no, for the aiming problem),then what happens if I cast, say, a transdimensional Black Tentacles?

Logically, if they're trying to escape a maze, they have to be able to move, so the Black Tentacles is slowing them down. But the actual maze area is modeled as a single die roll.

Would you do the grapple check first, and only allow them to get out with a successful intelligence check in the same round?

And what if it was Solid Fog?

2008-03-04, 04:14 PM
Maze + Dimension Lock?

Even if you make your check, you're still stuck because you can't come back, so you're stuck.

Then start off with the Transdimensional DBF's until target falls over.

2008-03-04, 04:49 PM
Maze + Transdimentional Maze!
Bwuahahaha! Let the Confusion Begin!

2008-03-04, 05:24 PM
Maze + Dimension Lock?

Even if you make your check, you're still stuck because you can't come back, so you're stuck.

Then start off with the Transdimensional DBF's until target falls over.

Ooh, that gets better if you decide whether the maze is created by the spell, or if you just send them to a preexisting complex. If the former, and you send them there, then cast dimension lock, then when the maze vanishes, they still can't return to the material plane, leaving them... elsewhere. My theory is that you could arbitrarily turn people in to vestiges this way. Oh, what fun!

Kurald Galain
2008-03-04, 06:03 PM
Maze + Transdimentional Maze!
Bwuahahaha! Let the Confusion Begin!

That would be very interesting if the first maze wore off earlier than the second (easily arranged with a metamagic rod of extend).

Since D&D is created essentially by the former rules team of Magic: the Gathering, the first effect wears off and tries to return the creature to play, but it's no longer where it put it; then the second effect wears off and returns the creature to where it came from, which is removed from the game. Heh.

2008-03-04, 07:26 PM
What book is Maze in?

Azerian Kelimon
2008-03-04, 07:32 PM
Core, of course.

2008-03-04, 07:51 PM
And this whole combo is beaten with a 4th level spell.

Minotaurs (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/polymorph.htm) are immune. :smallbiggrin:

Granted, the RAW seems vague on how minotaurs are immune, but this should work.

Azerian Kelimon
2008-03-04, 07:53 PM
Actually, it's very clear. Didn't you see the "Hidden reference to an Oldest Ones In The Book Greek Myth" bit?

2008-03-04, 07:58 PM
But... the Minotaur was trapped in the maze!

Azerian Kelimon
2008-03-04, 08:00 PM
More like couldn't care less and thought "HEY! Free food and pie!".

2008-03-04, 08:00 PM
Maze+Transdimensional dimension lock is now my favorite method of reducing people to vestiges. There's a couple other ways, like the trick with two rooms in different planes with movable walls and Gate, but this is by far the easiest. Popping a BoH with them inside may work, I haven't read the description in a while. They might just be arbitrarily destroyed.

2008-03-04, 08:19 PM
If you prefer that it not work for whatever reason, you could refer to

extradimensional labyrinth of force planes

which I would imagine would block lines of effect in much the same way as Walls of Force. So you could cast your transdimensional Fireball into the Maze (assuming the Maze is in fact in a targetable area), but it will then be immediately hemmed in by the Maze walls and end up affecting nothing.

2008-03-04, 08:49 PM
But... the Minotaur was trapped in the maze!

Technically, the minotaur was trapped in the maze, but not lost. It was held captive there and was supposed to hunt down anything that was put into the maze for it's own survival.
Daedalus was supposed to build it as a cage for the Minotaur.

If all of that is wrong, then...A wizard did it, thinking it would be ironic.

Kurald Galain
2008-03-05, 03:27 AM
But... the Minotaur was trapped in the maze!

Yep. I think some game designer failed his Knowledge (Mythology) check there.