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Titanium Dragon
2008-03-04, 09:52 PM
This is a quick question:

I known when you pick a new maneuver or trade out an old maneuver for a new one, you have to meet all prerequisites of the new maneuver. My question is thus: If I have, say, White Raven Battle Tactics and some random lower-level White Raven ability I no longer want, would it be possible for me to use my "trade out maneuver" ability on even levels to get rid of my only other White Raven ability, keep White Raven Battle Tactics, and not pick a new White Raven maneuver with the traded maneuver?

Thanks.

sonofzeal
2008-03-04, 10:18 PM
"Yes and no".

Yes, in that example, you can do it - you still have "One White Raven maneuver", so you still qualify for White Raven Tactics. Effectively, WRT is qualifying for itself. However, if you had War Leader's Charge as well, and traded out BOTH your other White Raven maneuvers, WLC would cease functioning.

As to whether you can sub out your first to get WLC.... I really don't know, but I'd err on the side of "no". The way I see it, there's at least an infinitesimal gap between when you lost your first one and when you'd gain WLC, and in that moment you'd no longer qualify for WLC.

Hope that makes sense. ^^;

Darrin
2008-03-05, 09:38 AM
I known when you pick a new maneuver or trade out an old maneuver for a new one, you have to meet all prerequisites of the new maneuver. My question is thus: If I have, say, White Raven Battle Tactics and some random lower-level White Raven ability I no longer want, would it be possible for me to use my "trade out maneuver" ability on even levels to get rid of my only other White Raven ability, keep White Raven Battle Tactics, and not pick a new White Raven maneuver with the traded maneuver?


Yes. Prereqs for maneuvers only apply when you first learn a maneuver. Once a maneuver is known, you do not lose it even if you no longer have the prereqs necessary to learn it. It's already learned at that point. You may run into trouble qualifying for higher level maneuvers later on, but you can't lose access to your known maneuvers by replacing their prereqs.

Something else to keep in mind: Stances count as "maneuvers" for the purposes of qualifying for higher level maneuvers.

Rad
2008-03-05, 10:05 AM
Distasteful as it may seem, you are only required to have the requirements when you first get the maneuvers and, even if all the rest of the game works differently, ToB specifies that you can do just that. :smallannoyed:

I'm not sure that stances do qualify as maneuvers though :smallconfused:

Saph
2008-03-05, 12:50 PM
Yup. For some reason, although most things in D&D have the "If you stop having the prerequisites, you lose access to this ability" clause, ToB maneuvers don't. So you can learn one White Raven maneuver, use that to qualify for White Raven Tactics, then sub out the first maneuver for something else.

It might just have been an oversight. ToB in general seems like it could have used an extra edit or two: a lot of the maneuver prerequistes seem a bit random, and some maneuvers, like Iron Heart Surge, have hideously bad wording.

- Saph

Titanium Dragon
2008-03-05, 03:09 PM
Distasteful as it may seem, you are only required to have the requirements when you first get the maneuvers and, even if all the rest of the game works differently, ToB specifies that you can do just that. :smallannoyed:

I'm not sure that stances do qualify as maneuvers though :smallconfused:

Stances do, in fact, qualify as maneuvers for the purposes of qualifying for stuff.