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Duke of URL
2008-03-05, 07:48 AM
GESTALT BUILD CHALLENGE VI: DOUBLE DIPPERS

Double the pleasure, double the fun... it's twice as nice!

"Gestalt Build Challenge" General Rules

Unless otherwise specified in the specific challenge, the following rules and guidelines are always in effect:
Gestalt builds; 28-point buy; use any WOTC 3.5 product (including Dragon magazine) except where noted (only 3.0 products with an official upgrade to 3.5 are allowed)
Make all builds to ECL 20. However, indicate the minimum ECL the build is playable at (the level at which all LA and/or racial HD, if applicable, are accounted for) and label any level that indicates a "power break" where the build has a significant jump in power level. Provide a detailed description of how the build operates.
Any race with a listed level adjustment is allowed (no racial progressions from Savage Species, please). LA and HD each apply to one side of the gestalt; you may include LA and HD on the same side as each other, or on other sides. No LA buyoff. LA is applied before racial HD, which must be paid off before class levels on that side. Examples: LA X / RHD Y / class Z / ... // class A / ... -OR- LA X / class Y / ... // RHD A / class B / ...
Multiclass at will, but see "voting".
Up to two flaws are allowed, but see "voting".
Templates are allowed, but see "voting".
Voting: Upon the close of entries for each challenge, members of the forum may vote in-thread for the build that best represents the goals set out by the challenge. The voting criteria should consist of: Functionality: How well does the build do in its primary role as specified in the challenge? Weaknesses: Does the build have any glaring weaknesses that can be exploited? Playability: How much of the 1-20 level range can the build be played at and be effective? Creativity: Clever use of races, classes, and/or feats that may not be "typical" choices Cheese: Minimizing the number of cheese points Using flaws (1 point each) Ignoring mutliclassing penalties -- some DMs actually do enforce this in gestalt (1 point each) Single-level dips that would require several pages of justification to RP properly (1 point each) Templates that would require several pages of justification to RP properly (1 point per +1 LA) Attempting to use more than one PrC at any given level (1 point each) Attempting to use "dual progression" PrCs (1,000,000 points each) Over-dependence on items (1 point per indispensable item) Over-dependence on Diplomacy or Use Magic Device skills (1,000,000 points each)

"Double Dippers" Specific Rules
Entries may be submitted and edited up until noon PST on Tuesday, March 11, 2008.
Create a build that advances, as far as possible, two classes from the same general type of magic or magic-like ability, that is, either two arcane spellcasting classes, two divine spellcasting classes, two invocation classes, or two psionic manifestation classes.
Please try to follow the format of the example (but also a legit entry, assuming I get it finished) in the next post
Submitted entries:
"Religion of ME" (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4024282&postcount=2)
"G’rean Ch’ez" (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4024371&postcount=3)
"The Schizo Phrenic of Smack" (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4024394&postcount=4)
"Will, the Whippomancer" (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4024408&postcount=5)
"Jerald, the Rainbow Warrior" (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4024532&postcount=6)
"CaDzilla" (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4025908&postcount=7)
"Zilla, The Nature's Cleanser" (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4025956&postcount=8)
"Gloom that Rides" (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4026118&postcount=10)
"Debroah, Protector of All Living Things" (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4026206&postcount=12)
"Anonymous" (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4028221&postcount=25) <==WINNER!
"Look ma! I'm a spellcaster!" (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4028272&postcount=28)
"Life is Overrated" (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4029033&postcount=38)
"Ultimate Cheese!" (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4030264&postcount=40)
"Baby Bel, Stilton Extrodinair" (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4030685&postcount=41)
"Lillendra, Corrupted Nymph" (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4030963&postcount=43)
"Kahn Tse Mi" (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4032354&postcount=47)
"The Ultimate Beholder Magus" (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4032576&postcount=48)
"Cambreadth" (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4035078&postcount=56)
"Helios Dawnchaser" (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4035158&postcount=57)
"Shadows to the Max" (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4038758&postcount=66)
"Ultimate Goth Girl" (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4041216&postcount=67)
"Death from Above" (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4042462&postcount=70)
"Tom-Jon" (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4042639&postcount=72)
"Lord-Master of the Mecha-Gouda" (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4042749&postcount=73)
"Just here to eat brains..." (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4043672&postcount=76)
"Ilúvatar's Mouthpiece" (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4046043&postcount=84)
"Master of his Own Domain" (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4047230&postcount=86)




Upcoming Challenges
Home On The Range(d) -- those who attack from afar
Vulnerable Villains -- BBEGs with flair but an exploitable (if not necessarily obvious) weakness
Riders On The Storm -- combatants who focus on using mounts
Magnificent Monsters -- only high LA and racial HD creatures allowed
Skill-Monkey Business -- support specialists
In-core-eligible -- builds that don't use "core" races, classes, or feats
more to come... (I hope. Feel free to suggest some!)


Previous Challenges
Melee Masters (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3873051)
Great Gishes (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=71548)
The Urge To Theurge (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=72444)
Army Of One (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=73021)
Invocation Vocation (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=73539)

Duke of URL
2008-03-05, 07:49 AM
Name: "Religion of ME"
Build: Elan Psion (Shaper) 20 // Psychic Warrior 5 / Thrallherd 10 / Psychic Warrior +5
Starting Ability Scores: STR 8, DEX 10, CON 10, INT 16, WIS 16, CHA 12
Cheese Points: 0
Minimum Playable Level: 1
Power Break: Level 6, gaining a cohort at CL - 1; Level 15, gaining a second cohort at CL - 2

{table]Level | Classes | Feat | Bonus Feats | Class Abilities
Elan | | | | Elan Traits
1 | Psion (Shaper) 1 // Psychic Warrior 1 | Unconditional Power | Psicrystal Affinity, Boost Construct |
2 | Psion (Shaper) 2 // Psychic Warrior 2 | | Power Penetration |
3 | Psion (Shaper) 3 // Psychic Warrior 3 | Psicrystal Containment | |
4 | Psion (Shaper) 4 // Psychic Warrior 4 | | |
5 | Psion (Shaper) 5 // Psychic Warrior 5 | | Psionic Meditation, Greater Power Penetration |
6 | Psion (Shaper) 6 // Thrallherd 1 | Burrowing Power | | Thrallherd
7 | Psion (Shaper) 7 // Thrallherd 2 | | |
8 | Psion (Shaper) 8 // Thrallherd 3 | | | Psionic Charm
9 | Psion (Shaper) 9 // Thrallherd 4 | Maximize Power | |
10 | Psion (Shaper) 10 // Thrallherd 5 | | Empower Power | Psionic Dominate
11 | Psion (Shaper) 11 // Thrallherd 6 | | |
12 | Psion (Shaper) 12 // Thrallherd 7 | Quicken Power | | Greater Dominate
13 | Psion (Shaper) 13 // Thrallherd 8 | | |
14 | Psion (Shaper) 14 // Thrallherd 9 | | | Superior Dominate
15 | Psion (Shaper) 15 // Thrallherd 10 | Chain Power | Twin Power | Twofold Master
16 | Psion (Shaper) 16 // Psychic Warrior 6 | | |
17 | Psion (Shaper) 17 // Psychic Warrior 7 | | |
18 | Psion (Shaper) 18 // Psychic Warrior 8 | Expanded Knowledge | Opportunity Power |
19 | Psion (Shaper) 19 // Psychic Warrior 9 | | |
20 | Psion (Shaper) 20 // Psychic Warrior 10 | | Expanded Knowledge |
[/table]

Psionics

Manifests as a 20th level Psion and an 18th level Psychic Warrior.

Offense

The primary offense comes from the Shaper side, using psionic attacks and astral constructs. At higher levels, Expanded Knowledge can be used to fill out the power list wherever any gaps appear. Can wield any simple or martial weapon as a backup (last resort, though, as BAB is barely better than poor -- best bet is to get a +5 defending brilliant energy weapon).

Defense

Psychic Warrior powers should primarily be chosen for defensive and/or augmentation purposes. The large power point pool, plus the Elan ability to reduce any damage taken by spending power points as an immediate action creates an extra layer of defense. Can wear any armor and up to large shields, with no interference with manifestation.

Weaknesses

Pretty weak on HP, poor reflex saves.

Special

At 17th level, the Genesis power allows the ability to create or expand a demiplane. At this point, the followers can be relocated to the demiplane to live, work, and worship their Thrallherd -- 180' radius is larger than you might think. (Note, if the higher level cohort is a Psionic Artificer, this may be possible at level 16.) Start the process of asking the GM if 160+ worshipers are enough to become a rank 0 deity. :smallbiggrin:

Once the cohorts hit level 17 (your CL 18 and 19, respectively), they can't advance further until epic levels (assuming an epic thrallherd progression similar to epic leadership), so milk them for item crafting. Cohort #1 should be Psionic Artificer 17 // Whatever and cohort #2 should be an Artificer 17 // Whatever. This will allow the crafting of any psionic or magic item with a caster level less than 20.

Mr. Friendly
2008-03-05, 08:27 AM
Name: G’rean Ch’ez
Build: Advanced Mature Adult (14 HD) Phaerimm // Sorcerer 6/Spellthief 14
Starting Ability Scores: STR 18, DEX 10, CON 18, INT 14, WIS 20, CHA 28
Cheese Points: *technically*? None. But I feel so, so dirty.
Minimum Playable Level: It could (theoretically) start at a *minimum* of 3, advancing the Phaerimm as it gains Levels/HD.
Power Break: 3?

{table]Level|A Side|B Side
1|Hatchling Phaerimm (1HD)|Spellthief (1)
2|Hatchling Phaerimm (1LA)|Spellthief (2)
3|Hatchling Phaerimm (2LA)|Spellthief (3)
4|Hatchling Phaerimm (2HD)|Sorcerer (1)
5|Hatchling Phaerimm (3HD)|Sorcerer (2)
6|Juvenile Phaerimm (4HD)|Sorcerer (3)
7|Juvenile Phaerimm (3LA)|Spellthief (4)
8|Juvenile Phaerimm (5HD)|Sorcerer (4)
9|Juvenile Phaerimm (6HD)|Sorcerer (5)
10|Young Adult Phaerimm (7HD)|Spellthief (5)
11|Young Adult Phaerimm (4LA)|Spellthief (6)
12|Young Adult Phaerimm (8HD)|Spellthief (7)
13|Young Adult Phaerimm (9HD)|Spellthief (8)
14| Adult Phaerimm (10HD)|Spellthief (9)
15|Adult Phaerimm (5LA)|Spellthief (10)
16|Adult Phaerimm (11 HD)|Spellthief (11)
17|Adult Phaerimm (12HD)|Spellthief (12)
18|Mature Adult Phaerimm (13HD)|Spellthief (13)
19|Mature Adult Phaerimm (6LA)|Spellthief (14)
20|Mature Adult Phaerimm (14HD)|Sorcerer (6)[/table]

FEATS:
{table]Level|Feat
1|Mother Cyst
3|Mindsight
6|Master Spellthief
9|Multi-Attack
12|Improved Multi-Attack
15|Ability Focus (Poison)
18|Virulent Poison[/table]

Final Stats: STR 18, DEX 10, CON 20, INT 14, WIS 20, CHA 31 (not including items)

HD: 14d8+6d6+100 (187.5 average)

Offense: Incredibly offensive. Thanks to the Master Spellthief Feat and a Combination of His Phaerimm-ness, Sorcerery-ness and his Spellthiefy-ness he has an effective Caster Level of 34 for all his Arcane Spells (which is everything he has, conveniently) in addition to be able to Steal 9th level spells and cast while wearing Light Armor. (Custom made, natch)

Defense: Is there really anything 9th level Spells can't defend against? (Don't say anti-Magic!) He pulls down mostly d8 HD for most of his career, and 6 skill points a level for 14 out of 20 levels, including 1st. If I am feeling bored enough, I will write up a full spell list and equipment list, but really he is dependant on nothing. Thanks to the Mindsight feat, he will be virtually unable to be surprised by (most) thinking opponents.

Racial stuff: As a Mature Adult Phaerimm he enjoys his always active See Invisibility and Arcane Sight (greater). He also has SR 27, DR 10/Magic, Telepathy 100', detect magic (redundant), immunity to petrification and polymorph, +18 natural armor... oh and his 4 claws, stinger and bit attack routine. So, there is that. His natural attacks, combined with his higher than average BAB (due to his min-maxxing "optimal" level choices) make him a de facto gish. I will post a feat list a little later.

Weaknesses: Will never be able to have a deep, loving relationship. Also; he can't cry.

Draz74
2008-03-05, 08:35 AM
Name: The Schizo Phrenic of Smack
Build: Phrenic Elan - LA +2 / Ranger 1 / Ardent 7 / Slayer 10 // Psychic Warrior 20
Starting Ability Scores: STR 12, DEX 14, CON 14, INT 12, WIS 18, CHA 10
Cheese Points: 1 (multiclassing)
Minimum Playable Level: 2
Power Break:

Level 1: Psychic Warrior 1 // LA+1
Level 2: Psychic Warrior 2 // LA+2
Level 3: Psychic Warrior 3 // Ranger 1 - {Wild Empathy, Favored Enemy +2}
Level 4: Psychic Warrior 4 // Ardent 1 - {Natural World Mantle, Freedom Mantle}
Level 5: Psychic Warrior 5 // Ardent 2 - {Life Mantle}
Level 6: Psychic Warrior 6 // Ardent 3
Level 7: Psychic Warrior 7 // Ardent 4
Level 8: Psychic Warrior 8 // Ardent 5 - {Justice Mantle}
Level 9: Psychic Warrior 9 // Slayer 1 - {Favored Enemy +2, Enemy Sense}
Level 10: Psychic Warrior 10 // Slayer 2 - {Brain Nausea}
Level 11: Psychic Warrior 11 // Slayer 3 - {Lucid Buffer}
Level 12: Psychic Warrior 12 // Slayer 4 - {Favored Enemy +4}
Level 13: Psychic Warrior 13 // Slayer 5
Level 14: Psychic Warrior 14 // Slayer 6 - {Cerebral Blind}
Level 15: Psychic Warrior 15 // Slayer 7 - {Favored Enemy +6}
Level 16: Psychic Warrior 16 // Slayer 8 - {Breach Power Resistance}
Level 17: Psychic Warrior 17 // Slayer 9 - {Cerebral Immunity}
Level 18: Psychic Warrior 18 // Slayer 10 - {Blast Feedback, Favored Enemy +8}
Level 19: Psychic Warrior 19 // Ardent 6
Level 20: Psychic Warrior 20 // Ardent 7

Feats
L1: Overchannel, Talented
L2: Combat Reflexes
L3: Track, Improved Natural Attack (claws)
L5: Practiced Manifester (ardent)
L6: Extend Power
L8: Psionic Meditation
L9: Multiattack
L11: Expanded Knowledge (schism)
L12: Rapidstrike
L14: Robilar's Gambit
L15: Improved Natural Attack (bite)
L17: Tap Mantle (the planes)
L18: Improved Rapidstrike
L20: Metamorphic Transfer

Powers Known
(Psi-Like Abilities included too)
L1: Vigor, Defensive Precognition (3/day), Force Screen (1/day)
L2: Claws of the Beast
L3: Expansion, Empty Mind (1/day), Mind Thrust (1/day)
L4: Psionic Lion's Charge, Metaphysical Claw, Dimension Hop
L5: Bite of the Wolf, Hustle, Body Adjustment (1/day), Brain Lock (1/day)
L6: Detect Hostile Intent, Animal Affinity
L7: Claws of the Vampire, Psionic Fly, Aversion (1/day), Psionic Blast (1/day)
L8: Prowess, Metamorphosis
L9: Thicken Skin, Intellect Fortress (3/day), Psychic Crush (1/day)
L10: Psionic Freedom of Movement, Body Purification
L11: Prevenom, Psionic True Seeing, Schism, Psionic Dominate (1/day)
L12: Defensive Precognition, Perfect Riposte
L13: Adapt Body, Reddopsi, Energy Current (1/day), Tower of Iron Will (1/day)
L14: Force Screen, Stygian Ward
L15: Inertial Armor, Psionic Greater Teleport, Psionic Teleport (3/day)
L16: Dispelling Buffer, Psionic Restoration
L17: Form of Doom, Psionic Plane Shift, Fission (1/day)
L18: Mental Barrier, Psionic Dimensional Anchor
L19: Energy Adaptation, Psionic Scent, Ultrablast (1/day)
L20: Inertial Barrier, Mend Wounds

Idea:Take a basic ol' pure-PsyWar "King of Smack" build. Already a very powerful character. Make sure you save an extra feat.

Then, for Gestalt, add another side of Ardent. Gain 17 extra Powers Known, access to high-level and non-combat-focused Powers, a better Will save, a few minor Mantle abilities, and most importantly, 220 more PP/day.

Take that feat you saved and use it on Practiced Manifester (ardent). Now you can dip into other things on your Ardent side without giving up access to high-level powers (though you do lose 4 powers known and 120ish PP/day).

What to dip? Well, Phrenic probably isn't optimal in terms of absolute power, but in a "Double Dippers" themed contest, making this guy something of a "Triple Dipper" seems very flavorful. And it's not too bad - never mind the Psi-Like Abilities, even if some of them are somewhat useful; I'm talking about the +8 (total) to mental stats and the constant Power Resistance.

The other +2 ML makes up for the first layer of Slayer, and the Ranger level that makes it easier to qualify for Slayer. 11 levels of full BAB, better skill selection, and permanent Mind Blank is nice.

If you can convince your DM that Metamorphosis counts for Warshaper, of course it's more powerful to go into Warshaper instead of any of those other dips.

Final Stats:
With most of his buffs up, and an item, but no Metamorphosis required, the Schizo Phrenic of Smack deals 16d6 base damage with his claws, and 16d8 with his bite. With a full attack routine (counting only BAB), he attacks as +17/+17/+15/+13/+8/+3/-2. Of course with Strength and buffs, even that last attack might actually hit. Oh, plus any attacks that he gets from haste, Robilar's Gambit, or whatever. And with Claws of the Vampire, half the damage he deals with all those attacks gets given back to him as healing. Since every extra attack has such a big effect, several of his Powers are selected to give him extra chances to attack (Prowess, Perfect Riposte).

Including the -4 AC from Robilar's Gambit, he can reasonably have an AC of 33+Dex, when he's mostly-but-not-fully-buffed, plus whatever natural armor he picks up from Metamorphosis. Not to mention cheap +1 Padded Armor with a bunch of special armor traits on it (e.g. Heavy Fortification).

By my interpretation of psionic Gestalt, he has 468 PP/Day, and a whopping 38 Powers to use them on, plus 22 Psi-Like Abilities per day. That's a good spread of combat buffs, combat maneuvers, combat emergency defenses, healing powers, mobility powers, utility powers, and a smattering of save-or-lose powers.

Kurald Galain
2008-03-05, 08:38 AM
Will, the Whippomancer

Build: Long-range duskblade/wizard gish
Starting Ability Scores: STR 16, DEX 10, CON 14, INT 16, WIS 8, CHA 8
Cheese Points: zero.
Minimum Playable Level: 1
Power Break: level 3 (lesser arcane channeling), 10 (shadow pounce) and 13 (greater arcane channeling).

Offense: Using his mighty whip (or just any lengthy piece of rope, really), Will has a reach of 60 feet, and can cast any amount of nasty touch spells at this range. Should the enemy come closer than this, he can teleport away at, well, will and attack from there in the same round, with bonus damage for Sudden and Arcane strike.

Aside from that, Will has full BAB, and can cast any arcane spell of level 1 through 6. He can also boost his BAB further by burning abjuration spells. Finally, this is one of the few builds that can make two full attacks in the same round, with the Marauder's shadow pounce (which allows a full attack after teleporting, and Will can teleport as a swift action, after his regular full attack).

Will is greatly suited for the job job of buffing army units - utilizing a Whip of Whirling, as a full-round action Will can cast any buff spell on 624 people simultaneously, making him the best thing since sliced druid for large-scale combats.

If there's no army around, he can simply buff the entire party, their cohorts, their familiars, their mounts, and their cohort's mount's familiar. Alternatively, he can debuff pretty much every enemy in sight, simultaneously, and with swift-action teleportation, he can do both in the same round. This makes him a great team player, and fun to have around in parties.

Defense: Abjurant champion, teleportation at Will, and can quicken a number of defensive spells without level increase. Plus, all the common wizard buffs, like invis, fly, and stoneskin; and the fact that he can attack from far away through a wind wall, which most of his opponents can't.

Weaknesses: Sub-par hit points for a melee character (even if he melees at a greater distance than most people can move). Poor reflex save. He'd like to have Combat Reflexes or a similar AOO-booster, but Dimensional Jaunt was simply a more fun and fitting feat.

{table]Level|Class A|Class B|Feats and abilities
1|Duskblade|Wizard (conjurer)|Apprentice (hide / move silently), Exotic weapon proficiency (whip), Aberration blood (flexible limbs), Abrupt jaunt
2|Duskblade|Wizard|Combat casting
3|Duskblade|Wizard|Extended reach, Lesser arcane channeling
4|Duskblade|Wizard|
5|Duskblade|Wizard|Mounted combat, Stealthy (Iron Wyrm Vault), Free quicken
6|Duskblade|Crinti Shadow Marauder|Arcane strike
7|Duskblade|Crinti Shadow Marauder|Sudden strike (1d6)
8|Duskblade|Crinti Shadow Marauder|
9|Duskblade|Crinti Shadow Marauder|Inhuman reach, Sudden strike (2d6)
10|Duskblade|Crinti Shadow Marauder|Shadow pounce, Free quicken x2
11|Duskblade|Abjurant Champion|
12|Duskblade|Abjurant Champion|Dimensional jaunt
13|Duskblade|Abjurant Champion|Greater arcane channeling
14|Duskblade|Abjurant Champion|Arcane boost
15|Duskblade|Abjurant Champion|Martial arcanist, Metamagic feat, Cooperative spell (Metamagic Storm), Free quicken x3
16|Duskblade|Mage of the Arcane Order|Spellpool I
17|Duskblade|Mage of the Arcane Order|Metamagic feat
18|Duskblade|Mage of the Arcane Order|Metamagic feat
19|Duskblade|Mage of the Arcane Order|Spellpool II
20|Duskblade|Mage of the Arcane Order|Free quicken x4
[/table]

This is using the Unearthed Arcana militant wizard, that gains fighter bonus feats at level 1, 5 and 10, rather than wizard feats. Also, we're using the abrupt jaunt variant wizard, rather than a familiar, which is justified in this build because it synergizes well with Shadow Pounce.

Spells per day
Level 5: 11 / 9 / 5 / 2
Level 10: 11 / 24 / 10 / 5
Level 15: 11 / 28 / 26 / 11 / 9 / 3, at caster level 15.
Level 20: 11 / 30 / 30 / 30 / 13 / 11 / 4 / 3 / 2, at caster level 20.
That's 353.5 spell levels castable per day. Also, he can cast 1st through 6th level spells from the Spellpool (i.e. every spell in the book), both for the wizard and the duskblade.

Equipment
* whipdagger of whirling
* ring of wizardry I, II and III
* hand of glory (to wear the third ring)
* orange prism ioun stone
* standard stat-boosting gear

Alternative suggestions
* To prove Will is serious about being a wizard as well as a whippomancer, he can qualify as an Archmage by level 17, by taking a level in Master Specialist first - however, Will's own ability is better than the Archmage's arcane reach.
* If we want a more cheesy variant, Will can become an Initiate of the Sevenfold Gouda (rather than Mage of the Arcane Order) by becoming an abjurer rather than conjurer.
* If we're willing to be cheesy and take two flaws, we can take Willing Deformity and Deformity: Tall at first level, for additional reach. This enables Will to buff 960 people simultaneously.
* Likewise, it would be effective to take a low-LA large race (rather than human) for yet more reach.

SamTheCleric
2008-03-05, 09:10 AM
[This is my first try at this... be gentle.]

Name: Jerald, the Rainbow Warrior
Build: Half-Elf Abjurer/Master Secialist/Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil/Abjurant Champion//Half-Elf Paragon/Human Paragon/Bard
Starting Ability Scores: STR 8, DEX 14, CON 14, INT 15, WIS 10, CHA 14
Cheese Points: 0
Minimum Playable Level: 1
Power Break:
Level 10 - First Veil
Level 14 - Veil as an Immediate Action
Level 16 - Kaleidoscopic Doom
Level 17+ - Abjurant Champion Goodies.

Offense: Casting as a 20th level Abjurer, 17th level Bard. Though he has banned Enchantment and Illusion schools on the abjurer side, Jerald still has a full allotment of tasty offensive spells at his disposal, most notably the likes of Prismatic Rays, Sprays and Walls.... Let us not forget all that is Kaleidescopic DOOOOOM. Lull your target with a nice captivating melody, maybe a nice Suggestion... and your offense is now my offense.

Defense: Lots of greater dispel magic, walls of dispel magic. Cure Critical Wounds from the Bardic side. Not to mention the various immediate veils that can be created in a pinch. If there's one thing an Abjurist does right, it's defense, especially with the kind of immunities the Iot7FV Veils can provide.

Weaknesses: Low hit points will be a problem, and fortitude save would end up on the low side. That, and he's a half-elf bard... that's a weakness, right? :smallbiggrin:

{table]Level | Class 1 | Class 2 | Feats and Abilities
1 | Abjurer | Bard | Scribe Scroll, Spell Focus (Abjuration), Bardic Music, Bardic Knowledge, Countersong, Fascinate, Inspire Courage +1
2 | Abjurer | Half-Elf Paragon | Extend Spell, Divided Ancestry, Elven Vision
3 | Abjurer | Half-Elf Paragon | Heighten Spell, Persuasion
4 | Master Specialist | Half-Elf Paragon | Skill Focus (Spellcraft), Ability Boost (Charisma +2)
5 | Master Specialist | Human Paragon | Adaptive Learning, Expanded Spellbook
6 | Master Specialist | Human Paragon | Greater Spell Focus (Abjuration), Empower Spell, Spell Penetration
7 | Master Specialist | Human Paragon | Ability Boost (Intelligence +2), Minor School Esoterica
8 | Master Specialist | Bard | Expanded Spellbook
9 | Master Specialist | Bard | Quicken Spell, Inspire Competence, Caster Level Increase +1
10 | Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil | Bard | Warding 1/day, Unimpeachable Abjuration, Red Veil
11 | Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil | Bard | Unanswerable Strike +2, Orange Veil
12 | Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil | Bard | Combat Casting, Warding 2/day, Yellow Veil, Suggestion
13 | Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil | Bard | Reactive Warding, Green Veil
14 | Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil | Bard | Warding 3/day, Blue Veil, Inspire Courage +2
15 | Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil | Bard | Metamagic School Focus (Abjuration), Unanswerable Strike +4, Double Warding, Indigo Veil, Inspire Greatness
16 | Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil | Bard | Kaleidescopic Doom, Violet Veil, Warding 4/day
17 | Abjurant Champion | Bard | Abjurant Armor, Extended Abjuration
18 | Abjurant Champion | Bard | Repeat Spell, Swift Abjuration, Song of Freedom
19 | Abjurant Champion | Bard |
20 | Abjurant Champion | Bard | Arcane Boost, Inspire Courage +3[/Table]

Additional Info:
The Half-Elf Paragon stat adjustment goes into charisma, the Human Paragon and all level based stat adjustments go into intelligence. Without Items that puts him at a 22 Int and 16 Cha. All Abjurations extended, cast any abjuration of level 1 or 2 as though it were quickened. Dispel checks are at a +3 from Master Specialist (+7 vs Abjurations). His perform skill is Karaoke. :smallwink:


Opinions, thoughts and comments welcome. If you have specific criticism and would like to help me out, please send me a private message and we can chat

Squash Monster
2008-03-05, 10:49 PM
"Name": CaDzilla

The Idea: It had to be done.

Race: Human

{table=header]ECL | Class 1 | Class 2 | BAB | HD | Class Features
1 | Druid | Cleric | 0 | d8 | Animal Companion, Nature Sense, Wild Empathy, Turn Undead, Spontaneous Domain Casting
2 | Druid | Cleric | 1 | d8 | Woodland Stride
3 | Druid | Cleric | 2 | d8 | Trackless Step
4 | Druid | Cleric | 3 | d8 | Resist Nature's Lure
5 | Druid | Cleric | 3 | d8 | Wild Shape (1/day)
6 | Druid | Divine Oracle | 4 | d8 | Wild Shape (2/day), Oracle domain, scry bonus
7 | Druid | Divine Oracle | 5 | d8 | Wild Shape (3/day), Prescient sense, trap sense +1
8 | Druid | Divine Oracle | 6/1 | d8 | Wild Shape (large), Divination enhancement
9 | Druid | Divine Oracle | 6/1 | d8 | Venom Immunity, Uncanny Dodge
10 | Druid | Divine Oracle | 7/2 | d8 | Wild Shape (4/day), Trap sense +2
11 | Druid | Contemplative | 8/3 | d8 | Wild Shape (Tiny), Bonus Domain, Divine Health
12 | Druid | Contemplative | 9/4 | d8 | Wild Shape (Plant), Slippery Mind
13 | Druid | Contemplative | 9/4 | d8 | A Thousand Faces, Divine Wholeness
14 | Druid | Contemplative | 10/5 | d8 | Wild Shape (5/day)
15 | Druid | Contemplative | 11/6/1 | d8 | Timeless body, Wild shape (Huge), Divine Body
16 | Druid | Contemplative | 12/7/2 | d8 | Wild shape (elemental 1/day), Bonus Domain
17 | Druid | Contemplative | 12/7/2 | d8 | Divine Soul
18 | Druid | Contemplative | 13/8/3 | d8 | Wild shape (6/day, elemental 1/day)
19 | Druid | Contemplative | 14/9/4 | d8 | Eternal Body
20 | Druid | Contemplative | 15/10/5 | d8 | Wild shape (elemental 3/day, Huge elemental), Mystic Union
[/table]

Expected HP:
20d8 + 40 = 130 HP

Casts as:
20th level Cleric
20th level Druid

Domains:
Initial: Trickery, Magic (worships Boccob)
6th: Oracle
11th: Travel (starts branching out a little towards Fharlanghn. Boccob, notably, doesn't care)
16th: Luck

Feats:
1st: Skill Focus: Knowledge Religion
1st: Extra Turning
3rd: Extend Spell
6th: Natural Spell
9th: Divine Metamagic: Persistant Spell
12th: Extra Turning
15th: Travel Devotion
18th: Luck Devotion

Strengths:
Spellcasting. Buff spell, spellcasting. Especially self-buffs.
Domains. You have Travel, Trickery, Oracle, Magic, and Luck. Four of those are some of the best.
Wildshape. Yup.
DMM:Persist. Hey, it's great for everyone. It's even greater if you're a bear.

Weaknesses:
You're only about 3/4ths as good as a Wizard at battlefield control.

Base Stats:
STR: 8
DEX: 8
CON: 14
WIS: 16
INT: 10
CHA: 14
Put all your bonuses into Wisdom.

How it works:
DMM: Persist on Divine Power and either Greater Vigor or Righteous Might. Turn into something big and scary. Eat your foes. And you can cast spells too. Yay. Just pretend you're playing Clericzilla or Druidzilla.

Items:
Night sticks are good, but horribly cheasy, so I won't recommend them. You do want a +2 cha item by level 12, as it gives you an extra DMM: Persist per day.

Get utility items, and get wands of lesser vigor. Most items won't work in wildshaped forms, so don't worry about it too much.

Playability:
You're pretty good all the time, but the action deficit will hurt you until around level 6. Once you have Natural Spell, you can do lots of damage with attacks of oportunity by being something big and scary and standing next to your opponents. Around level 9, when you have great buff spells, you can just ignore spellcasting and run around cracking skulls. Level 12 gives you your second persist, so you can either do this all day (Greater Vigor) or even better (Righteous Might) depending on your mood and whether you're going into a small space.

Really, playing this one is a no-brainer. But the build is really solid, so enjoy it.

Hell V
2008-03-05, 11:00 PM
Name: Zilla, The Nature's Cleanser

Build: Cleric 20//Druid 20 (Neutral Evil)
>I chose to keep all 20 levels on each, though it was tempting to give a try on Druid 20//Cleric7/MoMF 10/Warshaper2/Beastmaster 1... Thought it would get away from "Double Dipper"<
Starting Ability Scores: STR 8, DEX 10, CON 12, INT 10, WIS 18, CHA 12

Cheese Points: Even Being a Druid, Being SAD, DMM, and still 0 cheese points

Minimum Playable Level: 1

Power Break: Level 7: Wildshaped Casting Divine Might on self AND on Animal Companion

Domains :Destruction, Fire (Because he worships Nature in a vengeful view, always smiting the defilers on the forest)

Offense: Zilla is SAD. His Wisdom should be as high as possible... Given that, most encounters won't get him flat-footed. First round is about buffing
His bodyguard: Mr. Animal companion. I really like getting the Wolwerine as soon as possible and raising his HD from there... He isn't UBER, but he fits his role as Punisher of the dirty city-dwellers. Mr. Animal likes getting Zilla's most potent standart-action buff available at the level. Second round is about positioning Mr. Animal on a place that will let Zilla Summon a couple of Nature's Allies... If Mr. Animal gets in trouble, Zilla fast-wild-shapes and goes Heal him with his uber cleric mojo. After 2 or 3 rounds of "Crowd Control" he can buff himself and go help Mr. Animal with those flanks. Mass Bear's Endurance/ Mass Bull's Strenght are spells to be remembered. And when he is not feeling very meelee, he unleashes uber destructive druid spells, and my favorite single spell ever, Disintegrate.

Defense: Mr. Animal is a permanent Meat Shield, but shouldn't be put on over disfavorable situations. Sure Zilla can Heal him and even Rez him, but ideally, Summoned Creatures should be used for battlefield control. Aside frim that, Zilla will buff himself into having lots of Hp, Con buffs + good Fort save, SAD wis + good Will = Only reflex effects will be trouble. Druid-Flavored Cleric Gear will give him one truckload of AC, and those will possibly keep on his wild form (Depends on price of that kind of enchantment) and Divine Vigor raises his mobility in whatever form and armor he is.

Weaknesses: Ref saves, Batman, Pun Pun, Thog power attacks for 1d12 + 567...

Edit: Ninja'ed!

Hp at level 20: Hid Dice: 20d8 + 40 (Divine Power adds 20 hp, Bear's Endurance adds 40hp, Divine Vigor adds another 40, Righteous might adds 40HP, Con bonus may rise with Wild Shape)

Buffed Not-Wild Shaped Hp at level 20 : 20d8 + 180

Skills: 4x4 on first Level, 4 on all other levels + 1 Human Bonus
Knowlege (Nature), Spellcraft, Concentration, Spot, Listen.

Feats:
Human Bonus Feat: Spell Focus (Conjuration)
1st Level: Augment Summoning
3rd Level: Quicken Spell
6th Level: Natural Spell
9th Level: Fast Wild Shape
12th Level:Divine MetaCheese: Quicken
15th Level:Combat Reflexes
18th Level:Divine Vigor

Level 20 Ability Scores: STR 8, DEX 10, CON 12, INT 10, WIS 28, CHA 12
5 level bonus, 5 inherent Miracle/tome of wisdom bonus
Plus, but not that needed, +6 wis enhancing necklace that works with wild shape for a Wis 34 (+12 modifier)

Prefered WildShapes:
Triceratops:
STR 30 (+10), Dex 9 (-1), Con 25(+7)
CA 18 (-1 Dex, -2 Size, +11 Nat)
16d8+ 16x7(con) + 16x2(Divine Vigor) + 16x2 (Bear's Endurance) + 20 (Divine Power counts CL, not HD) + 20 Improved Thoughness + 2x16 (Righteous Might) = 16d8 + 252 HP

STR 30 + 6(Divine Power) + 8 (Righteous Might) = STR 44 (+17)

CA 18 + 12 (+4 DarkWood FullPlate Of The Wild) + 4 ( Righteous Might) - 2 (More Size form Righteous Might) = CA 32, DR 15/good

Attack:
+ 38 gore atack (Bab +20, STR +17, Greater Magic Fang +5, -4 Size)
2d10 + 30 (Str 17 x 1.5 + GMF +5)
Powerful Charge = 4d10 + 39 (Str 17x 2 + GMF +5)
Destruction Domain Granted Power: + 1 to atack, +20 to damage
Huge Fire Elemental
>Well... You can figure out how a Huge Fire Elemental On Steroids with cleric-and-druid mojo + Summoned Allies + Mr. Animal should stat out...

Stats on Mr. Animal:
Dire Wolwerine with + 8 HD and Companion Bonuses
Large Animal > Huge Animal with Righteous Might

13d8 + 140

STR 26 (+8) DEX 22(+6) CON 20(+5) INT 2 WIS 12 CHA 10

Divine Power + Righteous Might + Bear's Endurance + Greater Magic Fang=
STR 40 (+15) Con 28 (+9), Bab 13, + 20 HP + 4 AC(natural) -1 AC (Size) Natural Weapon Size Increase, +5 Enhancement on claws
Rage:
STR 44 (+17) Con 32 (+11) -2 AC

Feats:
Before being Animal Companion: Alertness, Toughness, Track
HD 6 - Power Attack
HD 9 - Leap Attack
HD 12-Improved Natural Weapon Claw

Full Attack:
2 Claws +35, Bite + 28 (Multiattack)
Claw 2d6 + 23, Bite 2d6 + 8

Charge:
Leaping Claw +24 (+2 Charge, -13 Power Attack )
2d6 + 49

AC: 28 ( -2 Size, -2 Rage, + 12 Natural, +6 Dex, +4 Righteous Might)
26 After Charging

Saves: Fort +19 Ref +14 Will +5, Devotion, Evasion
Skills: Climb, Listen, Spot, Jump

Well, It's true that a Dire Tiger would be somewhat more devastating, but Zilla likes Mr. Animal just as he is.
As for complements, Zilla can take on most enemies on his bare skin and magic. But geting a load of metarods, nightsticks, wands, scrolls, and as well some protection gear that would fit Mr. Animal would raise his effectiveness...

Vortling
2008-03-05, 11:01 PM
I'm still waiting for a divine focused build challenge...

The Gilded Duke
2008-03-05, 11:39 PM
Gloom that Rides
Shifter Cleric 15 / Paragnostic Apostle 5 // Ranger 20
Stats:Str 8, Dex 8, Con 8, Int 14, Wis 14, Cha 18
Race Adjusted: Str 8, Dex 10, Con 8, Int 12, Wis 14, Cha 16

Gloom that Rides is a Cleric // Ranger built around charging. Gloom casts as a 20th level cleric, and a 20th level ranger, features and spells from both classes are used to make Gloom a better charger. Gloom's main trick is that for a list of transmutation spells Gloom counts as a 25th level caster.

Gloom is able to shape change into forms normally unavailable, some of the better of these being:
Gloom (Epic)
Ha-Naga (Epic)
Behemoth Eagle (Epic)
Aspect of Bel
Aspect of Levistus
Etheral Defiler
Chronotyrn
Lucent Worm

Through using divine metamagic (no nightsticks), Gloom is able to persistent spell three spells a day. Usually these spells are Shapechange, Aspect of the Werebeast, and Hunter's Eye. Hunter's Eye is the weakest of the three and could be easily switched out for a better cleric or ranger spell.

The other big trick of Gloom's is his animal companion's ability "Share Spell". As long as his Animal Companion is within five feet of him, he can cast personal spells on it, or share spells that effect him with his animal companion.
Gloom stays near his animal companion at all times, and shares every spell with the companion, unless it would be harmful.

Right now I'm still working out the final mechanics for how Gloom that Rides enters combat. Currently I'm considering having him dual wield lances. I don't currently remember the name of the weapon enchantment which makes a weapon do double damage on a charge. I'm trying to figure out what other abilities to put on the lances as well.

As far as the attack sequence so far, Gloom casts Crawling Darkness on himself and his companion to give them concealment. At the start of the combat round he takes a swift action to cast Rhino's Rush on himself and his mount.

He then charges in on his mount using a ride by attack. Both him and his mount have pounce from Aspect of the Werebeast and full attack. He will be fighting with two lances. His first attack, and his mounts first attack have an increased multiplier from Rhino's Rush. If his animal companion hits at least once he gets a bonus attack from Opportunist. If the target is not immune to sneak attack he does 19d6 sneak attack on each hit and his mount does 6d6 sneak attack on each hit.


Gloom that Rides in Gloom Form:
Gloom:http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/gloom.htm
Medium Monstrous Humanoid
20d8= 266 HP
Initiative +20
Speed 30 Feet
Armor Class: 50 (+20 dex, +12 Insight, +8 Armor)
Base Attack/Grapple: +20/+33
Charge Full Attack: +38 Main x2, +33 Main, +28 Main, +23 Main, +38 Off, +37 off, +27 Off, If Mount Hits: +42 Main AOO
Main Hand: +3 Illusion Bane Revealing Lance (1d8 + 3 +11)x3 True Death
Off Hand: +3 Illusion Bane Revealing Lance (1d8 + 3 + 11)x3 Demolition
Space/Reach: 5/ 5-10
Special Attacks: Fear Gaze, Sneak Attack 13d6 (19d6), Pounce
Special Qualities: Blind-sight 60, Opportunist, quiescence, SR 35, DR 10/Epic, Camouflage, Hide in Plain Sight, Evasion
Saves: Fort 23, Ref 42, Will 23
Relevant Feats: Mounted Combat, Ride-By Attack, Spirited Charge, Two-Weapon Fighting, Improved Two-Weapon Fighting, Greater Two-Weapon Fighting
Str 36, Dex 50, Con 29, Int 12, Wis 24, Cha 26

The Mount in Ha-Naga Form:
Ha-Naga:http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/haNaga.htm
Colossal Aberration
9d8= 148 hp
Initiative: +16
Speed: 60, Fly 120 (Perfect)
Armor Class: 42 (-8 size, +16 dex, +24 natural armor)
Base Attack/ Grapple: +6 / +24
Attack: Coil Whip +20 (4d6+10)
Full Attack on Charge: Coil Whip +20 (4d6+10)x2, Sting +18 (2d8+5 plus poison), bite +18 (4d8+5)
Space/Reach: 30 / 20
Special Attacks: Charming Gaze, Poison, Improved Grab, Constrict 4d6+15, Sneak Attack 6d6, Pounce
Special Qualities: Flight, SR 30, DR 5/Epic, Share Spells, Evasion, Chameleon,
Saves: Fort +19, Reflex +24, Will +6
Stats: Str 31, Dex 42, Con 32, Int 2, Wis 12, Cha 6

Flight: +6 Move Silently
Charming Gaze: As Mass Charm Monster 90 Feet, DC 17
Chameleon: +8 hide
Poison: Sting, Fort DC 31 initial and secondary damage 2d8 con

Class Abilities and Feats:


Stats Pre-Polymorph:
Str 8, Dex 10, Con 8, Int 12, Wis 18, Cha 16
Cha 22 36,000 Cloak + 6
Cha 26 110,000 Tome + 4
Wis 24 36,000 Periapt +6

Domains:
Planning : Extend Spell
Transformation: Transmutation Spells at +1 Caster Level

Feats:
1. Persistent Spell
3. Mounted Combat
6. Ride by Attack
9. Spirited Charge
12. Divine Metamagic: Persistent Spell
15. Extra Turning
18. Extra Turning


BAB +20 HD, d8x20 -20, 7x23 Skill Points, Fort 12-1, Ref 12, Will 12+7

Ranger Class Abilities:
Two Weapon Fighting
Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Greater Two Weapon Fighting
Favored Enemy: Dragon, Undead, Abberation, Construct, Plant
Track, Swift Tracker
Wild Empathy
Endurance
Woodland Stride
Camouflage, Hide in Plain Sight
Animal Companion: See Below

Paragnostic Apostle Class Abilities:
Mortal Coil, Divine Understanding (Transformation), Mortal Coil, Backhanded Attack, Mortal Coil
Lore

Mortal Coil increases caster level on shape altering spells (+3 total). Divine Understanding increases caster level on all spells of the Transformation Domain (+1). The Transformation Domain ability increases the caster level of all transmutation spells (+1).

The following spells are cast at +5 caster level:
Enlarge Person
Alter Self
Gaseous Form
Polymorph
Baleful Polymorph
Doppleganger
Polymorph any Object
Shapechange


Persisted and used Spells:


Turning Attempts: Extra Turning 8, Charisma 8, Base 3
Persistent Spell takes 6 turning attempts.
Gloom usually has these three spells persisted, all three spells are shared with his animal companion:
Shapechange (CL 25)
Aspect of the Werebeast: Tiger (Pounce)
Hunter's Eye: +6d6 Sneak Attack

Useful Spells:
Rhino's Rush: First Charge attack of a round deals double damage
Crawling Darkness: Gives Concealment and other bonuses

Full Cleric, enough said.


Animal Companion: The Mount

Heavy Horse
Large Animal
9d8+6
+1 Init
Speed 50
Armor Class: 21 (-1 size, +3 dex, +9 natural), Touch 10, Flat-Foot 12
BAB +6/+11
Hoof +10 melee (1d6+4)
2 Hoofs +10 melee (1d6+4)
Space 10, Reach 5
Low Light Vision, Scent
Fort +9, Ref +11, Will +3
Str 19, Dex 16, Con 15, Int 2, Wis 12, Cha 6
Listen +6, Spot +4
Endurance, Run

Link,
Share Spells
Evasion
Devotion
Multi-attack


Equipment:

760,000
----------
36,000 Cloak of Charisma +6
36,000 Periapt of Wisdom +6
110,000 Tome of Leadership and Influence +4
53,018 +3 Illusion Bane, Revealing Adamantine Lance
53,018 +3 Illusion Bane, Revealing Adamantine Lance
6,000 Greater Demolition Crystal
10,000 Greater True Death Crystal
60 gp Exotic Saddle
40,000 Standard of Heroism
13,000 Monk's Belt

Chronos
2008-03-05, 11:56 PM
Just a reminder to anyone doing a psionic build: All sources of power points go into the same pool, so the PPs from both sides of the gestalt don't stack. You'll only have as many points as the more-abundant class. You do still get powers known from both sides, though.

dspeyer
2008-03-06, 12:06 AM
Debroah, Protector of All Living Things

Build: LA 7 / Nymph 6 / Paladin of Freedom 7 // Favoured Soul of Ehlonna 20
Starting Ability Scores (with racial bonuses): STR: 10 DEX: 20 CON: 14 INT: 18 WIS: 20 CHA: 22 (put all bonuses in WIS, which will be at least 23 by the time the build is playable)
Cheese Points: zero, except for graces that probably shouldn't stack
Minimum Playable Level: 13
Power Breaks:
level 15: divine grace, ranged smite, third energy resistance
level 18: turn undead (dmm)

Strengths:

Magic:
Casts as a 7th level druid (as a racial ability) and a 20th level favoured soul. By the time Paladin spellcasting kicks in, it's an afterthought, but triple divine spellcasting is slightly cool. Also gets stunning glance as a supernatural ability, which is a pretty powerful unlimited-use save-or-suck.

Almost impossible to hurt:
AC before equipment is 21. If unearthly grace and divine grace stack (they're both unnamed bonuses), her lowest save at level 15 is fort +22. She also gets three energy resistances and DR 10/cold iron. Just in case she nat-1s a will save, she's also immune to compulsions.

Ranged offence:
Weapon focus and specialization in longbow are class features. The racial bonus to Dex help too. The 3/4 BAB until Paladin kicks in hurts a bit (4 points), but the total is still pretty high.

Divine Metamagic:
She doesn't get this until level 18, with paladin powering the turn undeads, but with her charisma, she does get a lot of it.

Weakesses:

Hit points:
Low con combined with d8 until paladin doesn't make for great hit points, but it's not that bad either. Plus, she's hard to hit (see above) and has plenty of healing.

Skills:
Except her racial hit dice, all levels are int+2 skills, and her fluff kind of demands a lot of different skills (knowledge religion and nature, survival, 2 stealths and 3 awarenesses) even before practical necessities like spellcraft and concentration. The racial bonus to int helps here, but there are still hard choices to make.

Multiple Feat Disorder:
A versatile caster awaiting dmm wants lots of metamagic but an archer needs a bunch of feats to be effective too. Plus ranged smite requires a feat, and without it, one of the biggest paladin powers is lost. There aren't any bonus feats to help either.

Equipment:

Get +n studded leather armor (because cool as it is, 21 AC isn't really enough) and random AC boosting gear. Get a decent bow, but don't go crazy because of quadratic pricing. +1 of frost is probably enough. Use scrolls to fill in obligatory clericy spells that you don't expect to cast often enough to learn, especially those that are limited by expensive material components (like raise dead). Get some skill boosting gear to fill in weak points there if you can find it. Spend what's left on stat-boosters, spread evenly among dex, wis and cha (to minimize cost).

Variants:

It's tempting to take a 2 level dip in monk (for ludicrous unequiped AC and evasion) or in ranger (for skills, track, favoured enemy and free rapid-shot) before paladin, but they're both hard to justify, and prevent dmm. You could also replace paladin with ranger altogether, but a lot of ranger's abilities would be redundant with racial features, and, again, no dmm.

Notes:

This may be the only way to cast as both a druid and a paladin.

See if you can get a giant eagle as a paladin mount, not because you need it, but because it's cool.

Good luck role playing your mental stats.

Neftren
2008-03-06, 12:14 AM
Obviously nobody is going to try a dual arcane spell caster combo since you can only advance one or the other with PrC usage, so I'm thinking probably Wizzie/Incantrix/II7FV on one side, and Fighter on the other side. I kid you not. All those bonus feats = pure ownage. Lemme go dig up my C. Mage and I'll get a table up.

Chronos
2008-03-06, 12:27 AM
(put all bonuses in WIS, which will be at least 23 by the time the build is playable)Why Wis instead of Cha? I thought Favored Souls were Cha-based, and it also boosts your nymph and paladin abilities.


Obviously nobody is going to try a dual arcane spell caster combo since you can only advance one or the other with PrC usage...And of course, we all know that arcane spellcasters are completely useless without PrCs. Actually, it looks like we already have three different dual arcane entries. The trick is just to pick something that already has interesting abilities for your all-base side (even if it doesn't have as much spellcasting, the other side makes up for that).

An incantrix/veil//fighter probably would be potent, but I think you're about four contests late with it... It's not exactly much of a double dipper.

dspeyer
2008-03-06, 01:59 AM
Why Wis instead of Cha? I thought Favored Souls were Cha-based, and it also boosts your nymph and paladin abilities.

Favoured Soul gets bonus spells from Cha, but DCs from Wis. I figure this build already gets tons of spells per day, but counts on high DCs for serious offence.

Outside of Favoured Soul, Cha powers Nymph DCs, graces, and paladin abilities, while Wis powers everything druid. Cha might be a little more valuable there, but since the challenge is dual-casters, I'd go with boosting the druid-side.

It certainly could go the other way, though.

Squash Monster
2008-03-06, 02:30 AM
Obviously nobody is going to try a dual arcane spell caster combo since you can only advance one or the other with PrC usage, so I'm thinking probably Wizzie/Incantrix/II7FV on one side, and Fighter on the other side. I kid you not. All those bonus feats = pure ownage. Lemme go dig up my C. Mage and I'll get a table up.Sorcerer without prestige classing is bad, that's true. Wizard, not so much. You can get Domain Granted Power or Spontaneous Divination out of all those wizard bonus slots, and those are great. Amazing, even. Wizard 20 is a powerhouse, the only reason it's not used much is because things like Incantatrix are bigger powerhouses.

Ganurath
2008-03-06, 02:38 AM
Why Wis instead of Cha? I thought Favored Souls were Cha-based, and it also boosts your nymph and paladin abilities.Favored Soul's rely on Charisma for highest spell slot and bonus spells, and Wisdom for DC. The reverse is the case for Spirit Shamans, although they have added Cha incentive from chastising. Really, who can say they can drop shadows at L2?

Expect a contribution in the future. I promise you'll hate it.

Hell V
2008-03-06, 06:57 AM
Well, Mr. Squash had the same CoDzilla idea that I had, with a little extra cheese... Should I try another entry or edit that one to make it clearer/ more playable/ more different/ more fluffed?

Duke of URL
2008-03-06, 07:11 AM
Just a reminder to anyone doing a psionic build: All sources of power points go into the same pool, so the PPs from both sides of the gestalt don't stack. You'll only have as many points as the more-abundant class. You do still get powers known from both sides, though.

That's a judgment call, actually. It'd be like saying a Wizard // Cleric only had one set of spell slots (whichever accrued faster) but could prepare spells from either class in them. Why single out psionic characters any differently?

SamTheCleric
2008-03-06, 08:14 AM
And of course, we all know that arcane spellcasters are completely useless without PrCs. Actually, it looks like we already have three different dual arcane entries.

He's just jealous of Jerald the Rainbow Warrior :)

By the way, would someone mind PMing me and letting me know how to make those fancy tables? My entry looks like pig swill by comparison. :smallbiggrin:

Kurald Galain
2008-03-06, 11:47 AM
Obviously nobody is going to try a dual arcane spell caster combo since you can only advance one or the other with PrC usage,
Uh, hello? Whippomancer here... :smallbiggrin:



By the way, would someone mind PMing me and letting me know how to make those fancy tables?
Just click "quote reply" on any post with tables in it, and you'll see how it's done.

Draz74
2008-03-06, 01:34 PM
Build: LA 7 / Nymph 6 / Paladin of Freedom 7 // Favoured Soul of Ehlonna 20

Crazy idea: What about doing one of those 1-level dips that Favored Souls always use to get Turn Undead ability, then using Prestige Paladin instead of Paladin of Freedom?

Downsides: You'd have to be LG rather than CG. You'd have to use a cheap PrC dip. You'd lose one level of Favored Soul class features.

Upside: Instead of casting as a FS 20, Druid 7, and Paladin 7 (the latter being almost useless), you'd cast as a FS 20, Druid-with-Paladin-specific-spells-available 11. This makes your secondary casting abilities much more useful IMHO. Also, you get access to DMM stuff much earlier.


Just a reminder to anyone doing a psionic build: All sources of power points go into the same pool, so the PPs from both sides of the gestalt don't stack. You'll only have as many points as the more-abundant class. You do still get powers known from both sides, though.

I read a big ol' long debate on this once. Consensus at the end was that PP from the two Gestalt classes are indeed cumulative. However, you only get bonus PP form a high ability score once.

I don't remember the justification that they used to reach said consensus. Of course it didn't hurt that non-Gestalt multiclass psionicists explicitly get to add their PP up, although that's the kind of thing that doesn't necessarily transfer to Gestalt. I think the strongest argument was pretty much the same Wizard//Cleric parallel that Duke of URL brought up.


Well, Mr. Squash had the same CoDzilla idea that I had, with a little extra cheese... Should I try another entry or edit that one to make it clearer/ more playable/ more different/ more fluffed?

Edit yours to make it different, more quirky, and less cheesy. Maybe add a dip into Swordsage or Monk for WIS to AC? Or some obscure, fun-but-not-especially-powerful PrCs?

Annarrkkii
2008-03-06, 01:40 PM
While we're debating arbitrary Gestalt rulings, what's the policy on things like Daring Outlaw and Swift Hunter? If I'm a Scout 10 // Ranger 10, does that mean I skirmish like a Scout 20 and have favored enemies like a Ranger 20? Because that seems very wrong. However, if my progression looks something like this:

Rogue 1 // Ranger 1
Rogue 2 // Ranger 2
Rogue 3 // Ranger 3
Scout 1 // Ranger 4
Scout 2 // Ranger 5
Scout 3 // Rogue 4
Ranger 6 // Highland Stalker 1
Rogue 5 // Highland Stalker 2

What the hell do I skirmish as? If I have Swift Tracker and the feat that allows Ranger and Rogue to stack for sneak attack, what stacks with what? And can I even do that (I've always been unclear on switch a class between two sides of gestalt...)

SamTheCleric
2008-03-06, 01:40 PM
Just click "quote reply" on any post with tables in it, and you'll see how it's done.


That's ... brilliant. Thanks!

Ganurath
2008-03-06, 02:03 PM
Name: Anonymous
Build: Gray Elf Beguiler 20 // Wizard 5 / Geometer 5 / Fatespinner 4 / Wizard 6
Starting Ability Scores: STR 8, DEX 18, CON 8, INT 18, WIS 10, CHA 10
Cheese Points: 0
Minimum Playable Level: 1
Power Break: 6, 15, 20
{table]Level|Class A|Class B|Feats|Other
1|Beguiler|Wizard|Spell Focus (Enchantment,) Scribe ScrollB|Armored mage, trapfinding
2|Beguiler|Wizard||Cloaked Casting, surprise casting
3|Beguiler|Wizard|Spell Focus (Illusion)|Advanced Learning (Magic Aura)
4|Beguiler|Wizard||
5|Beguiler|Wizard|Craft Wondrous ItemB, Silent SpellB|
6|Beguiler|Geometer|Improved Feint|Glyph of Warding, draw spellglyph, surprise casting
7|Beguiler|Geometer||Book of geometry, Advanced learning (Hideous Laughter)
8|Beguiler|Geometer||Sigilsight, Cloaked casting
9|Beguiler|Geometer|Arcane Preparation|Pass Sigil
10|Beguiler|Geometer|Still Spell B|Powerful spellglyph, greater glyph of warding
11|Beguiler|Fatespinner||Spin fate, Advanced Learning (Phantasmal Killer)
12|Beguiler|Fatespinner|Greater Spell Focus (Illusion)|Fickle finger of fate
13|Beguiler|Fatespinner||Spin destiny
14|Beguiler|Fatespinner||Deny fate, resist fate, cloaked casting
15|Beguiler|Wizard|Arcane Thesis (Phantasmal Killer)|Advanced Learning (Permanent Image)
16|Beguiler|Wizard||
17|Beguiler|Wizard||
18|Beguiler|Wizard|Greater Spell Focus (Enchantment)|
19|Beguiler|Wizard|Heighten SpellB|Advanced Learning (Programmed Amnesia)
20|Beguiler|Wizard||Cloaked Casting[/table]

Offense
The offense with Anonymous isn't so much about physically killing a target as with subverting a target so that Anonymous can do what he or she will. If push comes to shove, Anonymous has an ample arsenal of Batman magic to lock down an opponent, most likely without them realizing Anonymous is a threat, and then dispatch them with a ranged weapon (most likely Merciful.) At later levels, specifically after the L15 power break, Anonymous can deal with threats using a Still, Silent, and in the high levels Heightened Phantasmal Killer. If Anonymous is dealing with an enemy who's immune to enchantments and illusions, then the wizard side of the arsenal comes to bear with summoned distractions monsters.

Defense
Anonymous makes a point of avoiding notice, ideally with an illusion wrapped under a magic aura. If dealling with an opponent who's actively expecting trouble, Anonymous summons a decoy to preoccupy the threat before bypassing it. If the target has true seeing, there's dimension door on the wizard's side. If, for some insane and arbitrary reason, Anonymous is caught with his or her metaphorical pants down, a swift feint followed by a Save or Die usually deals with the problem before it can take to the offensive.

Weaknesses
Opponents who use divinations make conflict a battle of the stack akin to a pair of monoblue control players in MTG with hands full of instants and sufficient mana to empty them. Such battles can get especially ridiculous when Anonymous is in a position that allows him or her to lay traps, thanks to the Geometer levels. Foes with inate immunities to enchantment and illusion are problematic as well, but can be dealt with using summons and teleportation. Unless they're undead, that is. Then it's command undead, which Anonymous knew to prepare due to divinations.

Duke of URL
2008-03-06, 02:03 PM
While we're debating arbitrary Gestalt rulings, what's the policy on things like Daring Outlaw and Swift Hunter? If I'm a Scout 10 // Ranger 10, does that mean I skirmish like a Scout 20 and have favored enemies like a Ranger 20?

No, you only accrue at the faster rate (which is identical in this case). As far as multiclassing on separate sides of the gestalt goes, the previous still holds.

Danin
2008-03-06, 02:19 PM
Can a Shadowcaster count as an arcane caster for the purposes of this competiton? Would a Binder count as an invocation using class? (I'm guessing no to that one, btu it doesnt hurt to ask).

Kurald Galain
2008-03-06, 02:22 PM
Look ma! I'm a spellcaster!

Build: Chaotic neutral half-elf half-dragon prodigy.
Backstory: As the only child of a smith and a baker, Jimmy could have joined any craftsman's guild he desired. However, upon learning on his 14th birthday that he actually descended from a mighty dragon, he knew his destiny was to become the greatest spellcaster of all time! Since then, he's traveled the world, looking for arcane knowledge and attempting to master the magic from various disciplines. His parents will be sooo proud of him!
Starting Ability Scores (with racial mods): STR 10 (+8), DEX 14, CON 14 (+2), INT 17 (+2), WIS 8, CHA 9 (+2). Level boosts go to intelligence.
Cheese Points: 5
Minimum Playable Level: 3
Power Break: None in particular, it's pretty fluid.

Offense: Huge strength, decent BAB, tons of interesting and novel special abilities, some fighting-related feats. Breath weapon with sneak attack. Four different racial paragon classes.
Defense: Can wear heavy armor with no problems, good hit points for a spellcaster. Bardic music.
Weaknesses: Jimmy is a very well-rounded and reasonably powerful character, except for the fact that (despite the fact that he has only learned spellcasting classes or prestige classes for spellcasters) he can't actually cast spells.

{table]Level|Class A|Class B|Feats and abilities
1|Hexblade|Half-dragon LA|Alertness
2|Hexblade|Half-dragon LA|
3|Hexblade|Half-dragon LA|Weapon focus: Dagger
4|Hexblade|Half-elf Paragon|Familiar
5|Hexblade|Squire of Legend |Combat Casting
6|Spellthief|Sanctified One|Sanctified spell, Craft Wondrous Item, Sneak attack
7|Spellthief|Mythic Exemplar|
8|Spellthief|Virtuoso|
9|Spellthief|Effigy Master|Two-weapon fighting
10|Spellthief|Daggerspell Mage|
11|Seeker of the Song|Elf Paragon|
12|Seeker of the Song|Human Paragon|Improved Unarmed Strike
13|Seeker of the Song|Half-dragon Paragon|
14|Seeker of the Song|Half-dragon Paragon|
15|Nope, hasn't found that song yet|Half-dragon Paragon|Stunning Fist
16|Seeker of the Song|Enlightened Fist|
17|Seeker of the Song|Vigilante|
18|Seeker of the Song|Acolyte of Skin|Practiced Spellcaster
19|Seeker of the Song|Greenstar Adept|
20|Still looking for that freakin' song|Harper Agent|
[/table]

Equipment: whatever he likes, but definitely one of those orange prism ioun stones, which sets his total caster level at 15 if I counted correctly. That's pretty decent for somebody who doesn't, you know, cast anything.

Duke of URL
2008-03-06, 02:27 PM
Look ma! I'm a spellcaster!

Why do I get the feeling that some of y'all are missing the point of the exercise here? :smallbiggrin:

The Gilded Duke
2008-03-06, 02:27 PM
Jimmy wins.

Draz74
2008-03-06, 02:59 PM
Why can't Jimmy cast 1st-level spells? Charisma 11 is high enough ... and his Spellthief and Hexblade levels are high enough ...

Also, his "minimum playable level" is 3. Level Adjustment for Half-Dragons and all that.

Kurald Galain
2008-03-06, 03:15 PM
Why can't Jimmy cast 1st-level spells? Charisma 11 is high enough ... and his Spellthief and Hexblade levels are high enough ...
Because he needs six levels in either class to cast first level spells, or a bonus spell which he gets if his charisma is 12 or higher.



Also, his "minimum playable level" is 3. Level Adjustment for Half-Dragons and all that.
Here's why (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20030912a).

Duke of URL
2008-03-06, 03:19 PM
I have specifically asked that "savage progressions" not be used. Draz is correct about the "minimum playable level" comment.

Kurald Galain
2008-03-06, 03:24 PM
I have specifically asked that "savage progressions" not be used. Draz is correct about the "minimum playable level" comment.

Ok, fixed now.

Chronos
2008-03-06, 03:38 PM
I read a big ol' long debate on this once. Consensus at the end was that PP from the two Gestalt classes are indeed cumulative. However, you only get bonus PP form a high ability score once.

I don't remember the justification that they used to reach said consensus. Of course it didn't hurt that non-Gestalt multiclass psionicists explicitly get to add their PP up, although that's the kind of thing that doesn't necessarily transfer to Gestalt.Actually, the fact that standard multiclasses get to add their PP together is precisely why they overlap in Gestalt. A non-gestalt wizard/cleric can only prepare wizard spells in their wizard slots and cleric spells in their cleric slots, so they're different class features. But a PP is a PP: A multiclass PsiWar/Psion can use PP from PsiWar to fuel Psion powers, and vice-versa, so they're the same class feature, and accrue at the faster rate in Gestalt, just like skill points or BAB.

Kurald, how do you qualify for four paragon classes? Divided Ancestry only allows you to take one extra:
After gaining at least one level as a half-elf paragon, a character can take either elf paragon levels or human paragon levels (but not both).Is there a special exception in Half-Dragon Paragon?

Also, to what class are you applying your "+1 to existing spellcasting class" levels, and to what class does Practiced Spellcaster apply? If I'm not mistaken, if you apply that to, say, Spellthief, you'll get Spellthief spells, even though you didn't actually get any from the Spellthief levels themselves. At least, that was the interpretation I was using for Presto the Digitator (who I'm guessing was an inspiration for this).

Another thing, you might want to consider fitting Master Spellthief in there somewhere, probably in place of Practiced Spellcaster. If I'm not mistaken, that would give you a CL of 20 in all of your classes, instead of just a 15 in one.

Kurald Galain
2008-03-06, 03:47 PM
Kurald, how do you qualify for four paragon classes? Divided Ancestry only allows you to take one extra: Is there a special exception in Half-Dragon Paragon?
Wait, are you telling me that a half-dragon would somehow be ineligible for the "half dragon paragon" class? The rules page says that "a character can only take levels in the racial paragon class associated with his race." - I'd say that for a character with the half-dragon template, the "half dragon paragon" class counts as associated.



Also, to what class are you applying your "+1 to existing spellcasting class" levels,
If I calculated correctly, I'm not actually getting any of those.



and to what class does Practiced Spellcaster apply?
I'm reasonably sure that this feat only increases caster level, and does not give me more spells-per-day or spells-known or access to a higher spell level (unlike Master Spellthief, which does do all of that, and would make the character actually cast spells :smallbiggrin: ).

Draz74
2008-03-06, 04:46 PM
Wait, are you telling me that a half-dragon would somehow be ineligible for the "half dragon paragon" class? The rules page says that "a character can only take levels in the racial paragon class associated with his race." - I'd say that for a character with the half-dragon template, the "half dragon paragon" class counts as associated.

He's saying you can be a Half-Elf/Human/Half-Dragon paragon, or a Half-Elf/Elf/Half-Dragon paragon, but you can't be both Human Paragon and Elf Paragon.

expirement10K14
2008-03-06, 05:25 PM
Pretty Much Complete-


Name: Life is Overrated
Build:Phrenic Lesser Aaisimar
Starting Ability Scores: STR 8, DEX 14, CON 8, INT 12, WIS 10, CHA 18
Cheese Points:
Minimum Playable Level: 1
Power Breaks: 3(NEB), 9(Undead Leadership), 20 (Lich Body)
{table]Level|Side 1|Side 2|Special
1|DN 1|LA1|Familiar, Charnel Touch, Rebuke Undead [Tomb-Tainted Soul]
2|DN 2|Sorcerer 1|DR2
3|DN 3|Sorcerer 2|Negative Energy Burst 1/day, [Corpse Crafter]
4|DN 4|Sorcerer 3|+1 Cha
5|DN 5|Sorcerer 4|Fear Aura
6|DN 6|Sorcerer 5|[Destruction Retribution]
7|DN 7|Sorcerer 6|DR4
8|DN 8|Sorcerer 7|+1 Cha, Negative Energy Burst 2/day
9|DN 9|Sorcerer 8|
10|DN 10|Sorcerer 9|
11|DN 11|Sorcerer 10|DR6
12|DN 12|Sorcerer 11|+1 Dex [Craft Wand]
13|DN 13|Sorcerer 12|Negative Energy Burst 3/day
14|DN 14|Sorcerer 13|
15|DN 15|Sorcerer 14|[Deadly Chill]
16|DN 16|Sorcerer 15|+1 Dex, DR8
17|DN 17|Sorcerer 16|
18|DN 18|Sorcerer 17|[Nimble Bones]
19|DN 19|Sorcerer 18|Negative Energy Burst 4/day
20|DN 20|Sorcerer 19|+1 Dex, Lich Body[/table]
Final Stats- STR 8, DEX 17, CON -, INT 12, WIS 10, CHA 26

Offense:
Undead Legions that have a decent initiative and move speed, extra hp, extra damage and such. Undead leadership and making undead should supply you with more than enough undead to keep your enemies down. Giving your undead weapons and armor, even just basic, will help them take down enemies faster, and then if they die you can use the weapons for new spawn.
If you use sorcerer summoning spells you can then get additional troops for your miniature army. Use of Charm Spells can also win over some allies.

Defense:
Undead Legions. Your Vampire (see below) should be able to use it's ranged attacks and vampire abilities to keep you safe. If you have enough undead you should have no problem keeping yourself safe, but some armor can go a long way. Dread Necromancer provides damage reduction and 50% that critical hits fail. Negative energy touch heals you after you become a lich, and also all you HD become 12s. Also, whenever one of your undead that you crafted dies, you and all undead within 10ft. Charm spells can help end fights before they occur.

Spells to Take-
[U]Dread Necromancer
Command Undead
Animate Dead
Control Undead
Create Undead
Create Greater Undead
Summon Undead Spells
Inflict Spells
Plague of Undead- If you take only one spell I suggest, make it this.

Sorcerer
Summoning Spells
Mage Armor
Teleportation Circle (For Moving Your Army)
Charm Spells

Items that help-
Wand of Command undead
Wand of (insert infliction spell here)
Amulet of Natural Armor (Extra AC)
Dark Skull (Stop those stupid clerics and there turning, and help you rebuke)

Number of Undead HP controllable by crafting- 200
Undead Leadership Score for undead-28
Which Means- 17th level cohort

Undead Contolled-
From Corpse Crafting
2 Truly Horrid Umber Hulk Zombies
5 Owlbear Zombies
3 Twelve Headed Hydra Zombies
2 Gray Render Zombies
1 Young Adult Red Dragon Skeleton
2 Ettin Skeletons

From Undead Leadership
A Vampire with 11 HD specializing in ranged attacks- For extra cheese use it for a pyramid structure (create more vampires/vampire spawn)

Chronos
2008-03-06, 07:48 PM
Wait, are you telling me that a half-dragon would somehow be ineligible for the "half dragon paragon" class?The default rule is that a character can only take one paragon class, even if they would be eligible for multiple. Half-elf paragon offers an exception to that general rule, Divided Ancestry, which allows you to to take half-elf paragon and one of human or elf paragon. So you can take half-elf paragon and human paragon, or half-elf paragon and elf paragon, but you can't take both human paragon and elf paragon.

Yakk
2008-03-06, 10:07 PM
Ultimate Cheese!


Caster
Classes BaB Wiz Sorc Dusk Druid HD
Wiz1 Sorc1 2/4 1 1 0 0 d4
Wiz2 Sorc2 2/4 2 2 0 0 d4
Wiz3 Sorc3 2/4 3 3 0 0 d4
UM1* Wiz4 2/4 4 4 0 0 d4
UM2 Dru1 3/4 5 5 0 1 d8
UM3 Dru2 3/4 6 6 0 2 d8
UM4* Wiz5 2/4 7 7 0 2 d4
UM5 Dru3 3/4 8 8 0 3 d8
UM6 Dusk1 4/4 9 9 1 3 d8
UM7* AH1 2/4 10 10 1 4 d6
UM8 AH2 2/4 11 11 2 5 d6
UM9 AH3 2/4 12 12 3 6 d6
UM10 AH4 2/4 13 13 4 7 d6
Ab1 AH5 4/4 14 14 4 8 d10
Ab2 AH6 4/4 15 15 4 9 d10
Ab3 AH7 4/4 16 16 4 10 d10
Ab4 AH8 4/4 17 17 4 11 d10
Arch1 AH9 2/4 18 18 4 12 d6
Arch2 AH10 2/4 19 19 4 13 d6
Arch3 Ab5 4/4 20 20 4 13 d10


HD: 4d8+5d10+6d6+5d4 (80.5 average)
BaB: +13

Class Key:
UM: Ultimate Magus
AH: Arcane Hierophant
Dusk: Duskblade
Dru: Druid
Sorc: Sorcerer
Wiz: Wizard
Ab: Abjurant Champion
Arch: Archmage

Cheese points: upwards of 4,000,004

Full caster levels in Sorc/Wiz, 13th level druid casting, lots of shapechanging abilities, 4th level Duskblade casting. 13th level druid shapeshifting too!

...

Note that this submission is a joke. :) I was just curious what I could do with max cheese!

Beren One-Hand
2008-03-06, 11:49 PM
Name: Baby Bel, Stilton Extrodinair
Build: Pixie Wizard 4 / Bard 1 / Ultimate Magus 10 / Archmage 5 // LA +4 / Sorcerer 1 / Incantatrix 9 / Sublime Chord 6
Starting Ability Scores: STR 6, DEX 18, CON 14, INT 22, WIS 12, CHA 22
Cheese Points: n points and counting! (Flaw, Ignoring multiclass restrictions, 15 double PrC levels, & 10 dual-spell progression levels)
Minimum Playable Level: 4
Power Break:

{table=head]ECL | Left Class | Right Class | Caster Level | Casts As | Special Abilities
1 | Wizard | LA +1 | Wiz 1, Sorc 1 | Wizard 1 | Spontaneous Dispelling, Scribe Scroll, Urgent Shield
2 | Wizard | LA +2 | Wiz 2, Sorc 2 | Wizard 2 | -
3 | Wizard | LA +3 | Wiz 3, Sorc 3, Bard 3 | Wizard 3 | -
4 | Wizard | LA +4 | Wiz 4, Sorc 4, Bard 4 | Wizard 4 | Pixie Traits
5 | Bard | Sorcerer | Wiz 4, Sorc 5, Bard 5 | Wizard 4, Sorcerer 1, Bard 1 | Bardic Knowledge, Bardic Music (Countersong, Fascinate, Inspire Courage)
6 | Ultimate Magus | Incantatrix | Wiz 6, Sorc 6, Bard 6 | Wizard 5, Sorcerer 1, Bard 2 | Arcane Spell Power +1, Abjuration Specialization, Bonus Metamagic Feat
7 | Ultimate Magus | Incantatrix | Wiz 7, Sorc 7, Bard 7 | Wizard 6, Sorcerer 2, Bard 3 | Expanded Spell Knowledge (1st lvl or lower), Send Away
8 | Ultimate Magus | Incantatrix | Wiz 8, Sorc 8, Bard 8 | Wizard 7, Sorcerer 3, Bard 4 | Augmented Casting, See Ethereal
9 | Ultimate Magus | Incantatrix | Wiz 10, Sorc 9, Bard 9 | Wizard 8, Sorcerer 4, Bard 4 | Arcane Spell Power +2, Expanded Spell Knowledge (2nd lvl or lower) , Strike Ethereal
10 | Ultimate Magus | Incantatrix | Wiz 11, Sorc 10, Bard 10 | Wizard 9, Sorcerer 5, Bard 5 | Bonus Metamagic Feat, ?Bonus Metamagic Feat?
11 | Ultimate Magus | Incantatrix | Wiz 12, Sorc 11, Bard 11 | Wizard 10, Sorcerer 6, Bard 6 | Expanded Spell Knowledge (3rd lvl or lower), Hardy Spirit
12 | Ultimate Magus | Incantatrix | Wiz 13, Sorc 12, Bard 12 | Wizard 11, Sorcerer 7, Bard 6 | Arcane Spell Power +3, Instant Metamagic 1/day
13 | Ultimate Magus | Incantatrix | Wiz 14, Sorc 13, Bard 13 | Wizard 12, Sorcerer 8, Bard 7 | Expanded Spell Knowledge (4th lvl or lower), Improved Metamagic
14 | Ultimate Magus | Incantatrix | Wiz 15, Sorc 14, Bard 14 | Wizard 13, Sorcerer 9, Bard 8 | Bonus Metamagic Feat, Instant Metamagic 2/day
15 | Ultimate Magus | Sublime Chord | Wiz 19, Sorc 15, Bard 15, SbChrd 19 | Wizard 14, Sorcerer 10, Bard 8, Sublime Chord 1 | Arcane Spell Power +4, Expanded Spell Knowledge (5th lvl or lower), Bardic Lore, Bardic Music
16 | Archmage | Sublime Chord | Wiz 21, Sorc 16, Bard 16, SbChd 21 | Wizard 15, Sorcerer 10, Bard 8, Sublime Chord 2 | High Arcana, Song of Arcane Power
17 | Archmage | Sublime Chord | Wiz 23, Sorc 17, Bard 17, SbChd 23 | Wizard 16, Sorcerer 10, Bard 8, Sublime Chord 3 | High Arcana
18 | Archmage | Sublime Chord | Wiz 25, Sorc 18, Bard 18, SbChd 25 | Wizard 17, Sorcerer 10, Bard 8, Sublime Chord 4 | High Arcana
19 | Archmage | Sublime Chord | Wiz 27, Sorc 19, Bard 19, SbChd 27 | Wizard 18, Sorcerer 10, Bard 8, Sublime Chord 5 | High Arcana
20 | Archmage | Sublime Chord | Wiz 29, Sorc 20, Bard 20, SbChd 29 | Wizard 19, Sorcerer 10, Bard 8, Sublime Chord 6 | High Arcana, Song of Timelessness
[/table]

Final Abilities
STR 6, DEX 18, CON 14, INT 22, WIS 12, CHA 27 without items

Damage Reduction 10/cold iron, Spell Resistance 15
Greater Invisibility (Su): A pixie remains invisible even when it attacks. This ability is constant, but the pixie can suppress or resume it as a free action.
Spell-Like Abilities: 1/day — lesser confusion (DC 19), dancing lights, detect chaos, detect good, detect evil, detect law, detect thoughts (DC 20), dispel magic, entangle (DC 19), permanent image (DC 24; visual and auditory elements only), polymorph (self only). Caster level 8th. The save DCs are Charisma-based.
Special Arrows (Ex): Pixies sometimes employ arrows that deal no damage but can erase memory or put a creature to sleep.
Memory Loss: An opponent struck by this arrow must succeed on a DC 20 Will save or lose all memory. The save DC is Charisma-based and includes a +2 racial bonus. The subject retains skills, languages, and class abilities but forgets everything else until he or she receives a heal spell or memory restoration with limited wish, wish, or miracle.
Sleep: Any opponent struck by this arrow, regardless of Hit Dice, must succeed on a DC 20 Fortitude save or be affected as though by a sleep spell. The save DC is Charisma-based and includes a +2 racial bonus.

Spontaneous Dispelling: Able to lose 4+ spell levels to cast Dispel Magic, or lose 7+ spell levels to cast Greater Dispel Magic.
Abjuration Specialist: Necromancy and Evocation schools are banned. Grants +1 Abjuration spell per level from the Incantrix level.
Instant Metamagic: 2/day apply a metamagic feat to a prepared spell known without increasing the spell's level. (Can you say Persistant Spell???)
Improved Metamagic: Reduce level increase of all metamagic effects by 1 (minimum +1 spell level increase)
Augmented Casting: 8/day can lose a spell to apply a metamagic feat to a 5th-level or lower spell cast by another class. The spell does not increase it's spell level, but it cannot have another metamagic feat applied to it. The spell level lost must meet or exceed the spell level increase of the metamagic feat.
Bardic Knowledge: 1d20+13 to know funky stuff.
Bardic Music: 4/day can use a Bardic Music effect (see below).

High Arcana
Mastery of Counterspelling: When you successfully counterspell a spell, it is turned back upon the caster as if it was affected by Spell Turning. (Great use for all those Dispel Magic variants you have laying around).
Arcane Reach: Touch spells have a reach of 30'.
3 Open High Arcana's (remember to remove the appropriate spell slot from the below total).

Spells
Able to cast 6+1 0-lvl, 6+1 1st-lvl, 5+1 2nd-lvl through 6th-lvl, 2+1 7th-lvl, 3+1 8th & 9th-lvl Wizard spells per day.
Able to cast 6 0-lvl, 8 1st-lvl through 3rd-lvl, 7 4th-lvl, and 4 5th Sorcerer spells per day.
Able to cast 3 0-lvl, 5 1st-lvl, 5 2nd-lvl, and 3 3rd-lvl Bard spells per day.
Able to cast 6 4th-lvl, 4 5th-lvl, 4 6th-lvl, and 3 7th-lvl Bard/Sorcerer/Wizard spells per day. (From the Sublime Chord)
(If you have the Ring of Wizardry III, than you get extra 3rd-lvl spells: +4 Wizard spells, +6 Sorcerer spells, +1 Bard spell - realy helpful for Dispel Magic, Spontaneous Greater Dispel Magic, and Quickened spells via Augmented Casting)

Bardic Music
Countersong (Su): Can counter magical effects that depend on sound (but not spells that simply have verbal components). Allows those within 30' to use your perform check instead of a save agaisnt such effects. Lasts up to 10 rounds.
Fascinate (Sp): Can Fascinate a creature within 90 feet with a perform check (up to 1 round).
Inspire Courage (Su): All allies that hear the song receives a +1 morale bonus on saving throws against charm and fear effects and a +1 morale bonus on attack and weapon damage rolls. Lasts as long as they hear the song and 5 rounds afterwards.
Song of Arcane Power: Use as a move action to add +0 to +4 bonus, based off your perform check, to the CL of your next spell cast before the end of your next turn.
Song of Timelessness: As a standard action, envelop a single creature within 60'. If it fails a Will Save (DC 24, Cha based) it is unable to act and nothing can affect it. Lasts as long as you perform, up to 6 minutes. Time does not seem to pass to the creature.

Required Feats
Flaw 1) Practiced Caster (Sorcerer)
Flaw 2) Any Metamagic Feat
Level 1) Iron Will
Level 3) Practiced Caster (Bard)
Level 6) Spell Focus (any)
Level 9) Spell Focus (any other)
Level 12) Skill Focus (Spellcraft)

Helpful Items
Cloak of Charisma +6 - 36,000 gp
Headband of Intelect +6 - 36,000 gp
Ring of Wizardry III - 100,000 gp

How it Works
Since Ultimate Magus bases the single spellcaster progression levels off of caster level the Practiced Caster feats allow you to choose your Wizard progression for the first two increases.

Since the Sublime Chord's CL is based off of one of your other spellcasting levels, it's CL is better than your wizard's. It also adds its class level to all your other arcane spellcasting CL's, which gives you a full CL for both your Bard and Sorcerer spells.

More to come... Including a lactose free entry hopefully.

Hell V
2008-03-07, 01:29 AM
I have expanded my post ading proper explanations on each fields... Just didn't make a table because, well, it was an even progression of 20 levels on each class, the table would just show things everyone knows...

Talic
2008-03-07, 01:59 AM
Entry Title:Lillendra, Corrupted Nymph
Minimum Playable level: 7
Cheese Points: 0 (though the build can diplocheese or UMD-athon with very little tweaking... pretty much put 23 ranks in either, and it'll rock both with a minimum roll of 40)
Power Break: Level 9. Level 2 Cleric Spells (CL7), Level 5 Druid spells (CL 9), and a good blinding save DC. (with a +2 cha item, 2 stat boosts, and Charm domain, DC would be 25. Stat would be 34 for 1 minute per day, 30 the rest of the time. That's also a +10-12 to AC and a +10-12 to all saves)
Also Level 12, when wild shape is gained.

Build: Nymph/Cleric 14...ECL/Druid 13

Nymph (Neutral Evil)
6D6 + 14D8 + 20 (106hp)
Speed 30 (swim 20)
BAB: +13/8/3
AC: 37 (29 touch)
Initiative: +3
Space/Reach: 5/5
SA: Blinding Beauty, Spells, SLA, Stunning Glance
SQ: DR 10/Cold Iron, Low Light Vis, Unearthly Grace, Wild Empathy
Saves: 28/28/38
Stats: Dex +6, Con +2, Int +6, Wis +6, Cha +8

S 10
D 16
C 12
I 14
W 26
C 42

5 Stat boosts in Cha

Spell Like abilities: 1/day: Dimension Door (CL7)

Casts Spells as a 7th level Druid

Level 1: Nymph / ECL
Level 2: Nymph / ECL
Level 3: Nymph / ECL
Level 4: Nymph / ECL
Level 5: Nymph / ECL
Level 6: Nymph / ECL
Level 7: Cleric 1 / ECL
Level 8: Cleric 2 / Druid 1
Level 9: Cleric 3 / Druid 2
Level 10: Cleric 4 / Druid 3
Level 11: Cleric 5 / Druid 4
Level 12: Cleric 6 / Druid 5
Level 13: Cleric 7 / Druid 6
Level 14: Cleric 8 / Druid 7
Level 15: Cleric 9 / Druid 8
Level 16: Cleric 10 / Druid 9
Level 17: Cleric 11 / Druid 10
Level 18: Cleric 12 / Druid 11
Level 19: Cleric 13 / Druid 12
Level 20: Cleric 14 / Druid 13

Final casting: Cleric 14/Druid 20 (CL for cleric is 18)
Domains: Charm, Trickery

Feats: Practiced Spellcaster (Cleric), Natural Spell, Pick 5 more.

Skills: A lot, pick, focus on Cha related skills.

Blinding Beauty: All humanoids within 30 feet of Lillendra who look directly at her must succeed of a DC 29 Fortitude save or be blinded permanently as though by the blind spell. Lillendra can suppress or resume this ability as a free action.

Stunning Glance: As a standard action, Lillendra can stun a creature within 30 feet with a look. The target creature must succeed on a DC 29 Fortitude save or be stunned for 2d4 rounds.

Unearthly Grace: Lillendra adds her Charisma Modifier as a bonus on all her saving throws, and as a deflection bonus to her Armor class.

Wild Empathy: Functions as the Druid ability (at level 20), except that Lillendra has a +6 racial bonus to the check. (Total +42).

Animal Companion: Dire Bear
Nature Sense
Trackless Step
Resist Nature's Lure
Venom Immunity
Wild Shape 4/day (Large, Tiny, Plant) - Maintains her own supernatural abilities in alternate forms.
A Thousand Faces
Turn undead: As a 14th Level cleric.

Skills: +8 Racial bonus to Swim checks to perform special actions or avoid hazards. May always choose to take 10 on a swim check, even if distracted or endangered. Can use the Run action while swimming.

760,000
Items: Tome of Leadership and Influence +5 (used) (137,500)
Cloak of Charisma +6 (36,000)
Periapt of Wisdom +6 (36,000)
Bracers of Armor +8 (64,000)
Cloak of Etherealness (55,000)
Ring of Evasion (25,000)
Ring of Freedom of Movement (40,000)
Metamagic Rod (Quicken) (75,500)
Metamagic Rod (Extend) (11,000)
Dark Harvest (Adamantine Sickle +2, Vorpal, Wounding, Spell Storing) (203,318)
Padded Armor +1, Heavy Fortification, SIlent Moves Improved, Slick Improved, Glamered) (66,155)

Gold and gems totalling: 7827

Note: Lillendra can be remade as a character of any alignment. Just change the weapon and the domains to suit your taste. I wanted to make a fey creature so obsessed with "protecting" the forests that she regularly blasts humanoid lands, even complacent ones that don't encroach on. Enthralling the strong to her will, deadly storms, and eventually, strolling through the towns, blinding and slaying all who oppose her. She is anyone, at all times, and loves putting a Poison into her sickle. That sorta thing. Fun times.

Most of the feats are open, as the build is very flexible and forgiving. Metamagic rods give her a casting edge against similarly powered foes.

Edit: Please note, that with 19 turn attempts per day, and 5 open feats, DMM isn't just possible, it's beautiful.

Chronos
2008-03-07, 02:10 AM
Hmm, Squash Monster, any reason you didn't go Cloistered for CaDzilla? The drawbacks would mostly be canceled out by Gestalt, so you'd gain a couple of skills, some extra spells, lore, and yet another domain for the low, low price of medium armor instead of heavy.

Adumbration
2008-03-07, 02:17 AM
I want to see someone make a Cleric 10 / The Winterhaunt of Iborighu // Druid 10 / Walker in the Waste 10.

I'd call him... Jonathan the Mild. I'd like to see what happens when he reaches level 20.

Ganurath
2008-03-07, 12:26 PM
Hmm, Squash Monster, any reason you didn't go Cloistered for CaDzilla? The drawbacks would mostly be canceled out by Gestalt, so you'd gain a couple of skills, some extra spells, lore, and yet another domain for the low, low price of medium armor instead of heavy.I think it's a matter of flavor.

ShneekeyTheLost
2008-03-07, 12:38 PM
NameKahn Tse Mi
Race Pixie
Stats Str:4, Dex:22, Con:10, Int:26, Wis:14, Cha: 26
Class LA+4/Beguiler16//Sorcer 8/Abjurant Champion 5/Iot7V 7

{table=Head]Level | Class 1 | Class 2 | Feats
1 | LA +1 | Sorcerer | Combat Casting |
2 | LA +1 | Sorcerer | -
3 | LA +1 | Sorcerer | Skill Focus (Spellcraft
4 | LA +1 | Sorcerer | -
5 | Beguiler | Sorcerer | -
6 | Beguiler | Sorcerer | Spell Focus (Abjuration)
7 | Beguiler | Sorcerer | -
8 | Beguiler | Sorcerer | -
9 | Beguiler | Abjurant Champion | Greater Spell Focus (Abjuration)
10 | Beguiler | Abjurant Champion | -
11 | Beguiler | Abjurant Champion | -
12 | Beguiler | Abjurant Champion | Metamagic feat of choice
13 | Beguiler | Abjurant Champion | -
14 | Beguiler | Abjurant Champion | -
15 | Beguiler | Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil | Metamagic feat of choice
16 | Beguiler | Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil | -
17 | Beguiler | Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil | -
18 | Beguiler | Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil | Metamagic Feat of choice
19 | Beguiler | Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil | -
20 | Beguiler | Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil | -[/table]

Minimum Playable Level 5th
Cheeze Points 0
Power Break Any spell level is going to be a power break, really

Concept Not only am I a double-dipper, I'm double-dipping arcane AND spontanious casting, using Beguiler to fill the enchantment and illusion colleges so I have more spell slots from Sorcerer to devote to other things.

Probably not the most powerful build, all things considered, but probably one of the hardest to kill.

Gear +1 Twilight Mithral Chain Shirt, Headband of Intellect +4, Cloak of Charisma +4, Ring of Free Movement

Tactics It's a royal pain just trying to find this guy. Maxed ranks in Hide and Move Silently, plus Invisibility, Greater Mirror Image, Mind Blank, and other fun toys to keep from being detected. Offense comes from the Sorcerer side, primarily Conjuration and Necromancy effects, very few actual Evocation spells. However, he's no slouch in melee, despite having full casting on both sides. In combat, he's likely to drop a Shield up as a swift action, which gives a +9 shield bonus to AC (thank you Abjurant Champion) to make him very difficult to hit even if you CAN find him.

Against opponents who can see invisible, he first buffs himself up. Quickened Shield, then drops a Violet Personal Veil, which grants him Concealment, which lets him make a Hide check to vanish even if you DO have see invis, and protects him from anything you plan on doing to him. If you get the drop on him, Reactive Warding means he still can raise it. This gives him time to escape, if that is what he wants to do, or to put up Greater Mirror Image, and perhaps a Kalidascopic Doom if he suspects his opponent has True Sight or multiple buffs himself.

He perfers to start off with things like Charm Monster from the Beguiler side if the target is affected by mind-affecting abilities, being a sneaky little bastard, but if that fails, he'll drop a Forcecage on his opponent (if it's small enough) and then a Cloudkill, or perhaps just start off with a Stinking Cloud if his opponent is a caster. From there, he'll try to Feeblemind if it's an arcane caster, or start dropping Enervations to soften the target up for several Save or Screwed spells in his repitoire.

Weaknesses He only has a strength of 4, which can be exploited. Also, I can't seem to find a way to get into AbChamp earlier without moving the LA+4 over to the Sorcerer side, which kinda keeps him out of Iot7V and keeps him from getting the most game breaking powerful 9th level spells around. Because of the +4 LA, he's getting Sorcerer BAB for the first 4 levels, giving him a +2, then another four levels of 3/4 BAB from Beguiler for a total of +5 at 8th, which is required to enter AbChamp. Oh well, at least I get just enough levels to squeeze in Iot7V at the end.

Mr. Friendly
2008-03-07, 01:58 PM
:smallbiggrin: So, joo guys want to play rough? Ok, we'll play rough... say hello to my little friend!

Seeeing the cheese entries above, I say PSHAW! and present to you The Ultimate Beholder Magus:

{table]Level|A Side|B Side
1|PsyWarrior |Wizard
2|PsyWarrior |Wizard
3|PsyWarrior |Bard
4|PsyWarrior |Wizard
5|PsyWarrior |Spellthief
6|Ab. Champ |Ultimate Magus
7|Beholder Mage |Ultimate Magus
8|Beholder Mage |Ultimate Magus
9|Beholder Mage |Ultimate Magus
10|Beholder Mage |Ultimate Magus
11|Beholder Mage |Ultimate Magus
12|Beholder Mage |Ultimate Magus
13|Beholder Mage |Ultimate Magus
14|Beholder Mage |Ultimate Magus
15|Beholder Mage |Ultimate Magus
16|Beholder Mage |Archmage
17|Ab. Champ |Archmage
18|Ab. Champ |Archmage
19|Ab. Champ |Archmage
20|Ab. Champ |Archmage[/table]

Sometime around 7th level, he pays a aspellcaster to Polymorph Any Object him into a Beholder.
Ok, so the main trick is to take the feat Metamorphic transfer; twice. He does this at 5th and 6th levels, he also takes Practiced Spellcaster (bard) at 3rd level, as soon as he become a bard. With this, every level of UM adds to his Wizard levels. Archmage will go to Wizard, Ab. Champ to Bard. At the end of the day, his final spellcastng levels are (for spells known and such) 20th level Sorcerer (Beholder Magus), 18th level Wizard and 13th level Bard. His actual caster level though, thanks to the one begotten level of Spellthief and the Master Spellthief picked up at some level gives us a total of 60. Yes, CL 60.

What's that one feat that makes the damage on a spell uncapped?

Oh - Did I mention he gets to cast 10 spells a round as free actions? Yeah, I should have mentioned that. :smallbiggrin:

Ganurath
2008-03-07, 02:04 PM
*snip*You do realize that you need to post the ability scores for entries to be valid, right?

Also, hate to break it to you, but Beguiler uses Int based casting.

Talic
2008-03-07, 02:05 PM
:smallbiggrin: So, joo guys want to play rough? Ok, we'll play rough... say hello to my little friend!

Seeeing the cheese entries above, I say PSHAW! and present to you The Ultimate Beholder Magus:

{table]Level|A Side|B Side
1|PsyWarrior |Wizard
2|PsyWarrior |Wizard
3|PsyWarrior |Bard
4|PsyWarrior |Wizard
5|PsyWarrior |Spellthief
6|Ab. Champ |Ultimate Magus
7|Beholder Mage |Ultimate Magus
8|Beholder Mage |Ultimate Magus
9|Beholder Mage |Ultimate Magus
10|Beholder Mage |Ultimate Magus
11|Beholder Mage |Ultimate Magus
12|Beholder Mage |Ultimate Magus
13|Beholder Mage |Ultimate Magus
14|Beholder Mage |Ultimate Magus
15|Beholder Mage |Ultimate Magus
16|Beholder Mage |Archmage
17|Ab. Champ |Archmage
18|Ab. Champ |Archmage
19|Ab. Champ |Archmage
20|Ab. Champ |Archmage[/table]

Sometime around 7th level, he pays a aspellcaster to Polymorph Any Object him into a Beholder.
Ok, so the main trick is to take the feat Metamorphic transfer; twice. He does this at 5th and 6th levels, he also takes Practiced Spellcaster (bard) at 3rd level, as soon as he become a bard. With this, every level of UM adds to his Wizard levels. Archmage will go to Wizard, Ab. Champ to Bard. At the end of the day, his final spellcastng levels are (for spells known and such) 20th level Sorcerer (Beholder Magus), 18th level Wizard and 13th level Bard. His actual caster level though, thanks to the one begotten level of Spellthief and the Master Spellthief picked up at some level gives us a total of 60. Yes, CL 60.

What's that one feat that makes the damage on a spell uncapped?

Oh - Did I mention he gets to cast 10 spells a round as free actions? Yeah, I should have mentioned that. :smallbiggrin:

I take it you start as an Elan, so that the whole "aberration" thing synergizes with PaO?

And 10 spells a round maybe... But can he eat with a fork and spoon?

Chronos
2008-03-07, 03:40 PM
And 10 spells a round maybe... But can he eat with a fork and spoon?Sure, he just uses one of his ten spells per round on Mage Hand. What I want to know, though, is what happens if he gets hit with a Dispel Magic (since PAO is permanent, not instantaneous).

Also, I don't think that Master Spellthief would get you to CL 60. I think that if you have an arcane class on both sides, that you'd only get +1 total for that level, not +1 from each.

You've also got a problem getting into UM, since a Bard 1 can't cast first-level spells. I don't see that bard is essential to the build, though, so you could just as well use Sorcerer or Beguiler or something.

And I take it that PsyWar is just to get bonus psionic feats, to pick up the Metamorphic Transfers? You don't seem to be doing anything to advance it past 5th.

Talic
2008-03-07, 03:50 PM
Sure, he just uses one of his ten spells per round on Mage Hand. What I want to know, though, is what happens if he gets hit with a Dispel Magic (since PAO is permanent, not instantaneous).

That will get a fork OR spoon. Not a fork AND spoon. How will he hold his meat in place while he cuts it with his steak knife?

The lack of attention to fine dining makes this a rather poorly considered build. Imagine how successful he'd be if he could serve others out of a tureen, rather than eating from a latrine... Really, fine dining is where all the circumstance modifiers are at these days.

Overlord
2008-03-07, 08:47 PM
That will get a fork OR spoon. Not a fork AND spoon. How will he hold his meat in place while he cuts it with his steak knife?

The lack of attention to fine dining makes this a rather poorly considered build. Imagine how successful he'd be if he could serve others out of a tureen, rather than eating from a latrine... Really, fine dining is where all the circumstance modifiers are at these days.

He can disintegrate hair-thin slices of steak to make bite-sized chunks.

On a side note, I can't wait for the Magnificent Monsters challenge. I'm totally going to break out the Ikea Tarrasque (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20160).

ShneekeyTheLost
2008-03-07, 10:31 PM
You do realize that you need to post the ability scores for entries to be valid, right?

Also, hate to break it to you, but Beguiler uses Int based casting.

Hate to break it to you, but Int is always going to be valuable for a skillmonkey. Strength is definately a dump-stat, though, and Wis doesn't need to be too high either. Cha, Int, and Dex are the three primary stats.

Clearly, the build is still a work in progress as I had to... ya know... go to work. This thing we do to pay bills?

Besides, how is Beguiler being an int-based class going to make the build invalidated anyways?

Ganurath
2008-03-07, 10:56 PM
Hate to break it to you, but Int is always going to be valuable for a skillmonkey. Strength is definately a dump-stat, though, and Wis doesn't need to be too high either. Cha, Int, and Dex are the three primary stats.

Clearly, the build is still a work in progress as I had to... ya know... go to work. This thing we do to pay bills?

Besides, how is Beguiler being an int-based class going to make the build invalidated anyways?At the time I didn't notice the Headband, and thought you had assumed (as I had when I first saw the class) that Beguilers use Cha-based casting.

dspeyer
2008-03-08, 01:21 AM
I did a divine, so figured I'd try an arcane, too.

Name: Cambreadth
Slogan: How many way can I make you die?
Alignment: CE, but claims CN
Build: Human Metamagic-Specialist Sorceror 5 / Prestige Bard 15 // Ranger 5 / Warmage 15
Playable from: 1
Power break: 6 (armor)
Cheese points: 0? 1? (how do multiclassing penalties work for gestalt, anyway?)
Initial Stats: S: 10, D: 14, C: 11, I: 10, W:10, C: 17 (bump Cha to 18 at 4th, Con to 12 and 8th, and then Cha all the way from there)

Focus early sorceror spells on utility and battlefield control (eg grease and web), with a handful few good buffs (eg invisibility and fly) mixed in. Grab a couple of good save-or-sucks at the high levels, but otherwise continue like this. Let warmage (or rapid-shot, early on) deal the direct damage.

Cambreadth starts as a non-double-dipper, but the sorceror//ranger gestalt is one of the strongest overall in core, with good pretty much everything. He really comes into his own at level six, though, when he get the prestige bard's light armor ability and access to the warmage spellist.

Strengths:

Casting:
By 20th level, Cambreadth casts as a 16th level sorceror and a 15th level warmage, resulting in over 100 spells known, all to be cast spontaneously. He also has all the special abilities of a 20th level bard. It's hard to imagine a bigger set of magical options to be available *at all times*.

BAB:
Full BAB to level 5, and 3/4 beyond, finishing at 16 puts Cambreadth well above most full-arcanists. This is handy for all those range-touch spells warmages use.

Armor:
Light armor, whether a chain shirt or a mithril breastplate, doesn't interfere with casting at all.

Skills:
7 per level, from start to finish. Way above usual for an arcanist. Even with one reserved for perform, this still gives a lot to play with. Make sure to take lots of knowledge(your enemies), so you can target their weaknesses.

Feats:
With the human an warmage bonuses, you get 11 feats b 20th level, three of them earmarked for metamagic, and most of the rest going there as well. If you put them all there, you can take *every metamagic feat in the PHB* and still have two left over (shape spell and chain spell?).

Divine casting:
No, that 1 first-level ranger spell per day that you'd get if you had any wisdom isn't valuable, but the ability to use cure X wounds wands without a UMD check is. Especially if no positive-energy cleric wants anything to do with you.

Ranger special abilities:
Even at very high levels, those two favored enemies, animal companion, track and wild empathy will still be useful. Even endurance and rapid shot might be.

SAD:
Both spellsets and the bardic abilities are purely charisma-based.

Minimal equipment dependency:
The occasional material component, armor and protectives, a few wands of cure X wounds, a decent bow -- all of it's pretty cheap. You can spend all the rest on charisma-boosting gear.

Weaknesses:

No 9th level spells at level 20.

Fort save, though with the Ranger to start it off, it's still better than most arcanists.

Hit points, 5d8+15d6, and not a whole lot of con. Again, still beats the typical arcanist.

Cheesy variant:
Swap out four levels of warmage for sorceror. Not from the beginning or the end, but at each level where prestige bard doesn't give one.

Note:
Pick a horn as your instrument. Not something brass, an actual animal horn. Ideally from some high-CR magical beast.

Beren One-Hand
2008-03-08, 02:15 AM
Name: Helios Dawnchaser
Build: Aaismar Cleric / Radiant Servant of Pelor / Contemplative / Sacred Exocist // Spirit Shaman
Starting Ability Scores: STR 12, DEX 14, CON 12, INT 10, WIS 16, CHA 16
Cheese Points: 1 for 1 level dip
Minimum Playable Level: 1
Power Break: 11 - access to Healing Domain (see below)

{table=head]ECL | Left Class | Right Class | Special Abilities
1 | LA +1 | Spirit Shaman | Aasimar abilities, Wild Empathy, Spirit Guide (A golden lion)
2 | Cleric | Spirit Shaman | Sun Domain, Good Domain, Turn Undead, Chastise Spirits
3 | Cleric | Spirit Shaman | Detect Spirits
4 | Cleric | Spirit Shaman | Blessing of the Spirits
5 | Cleric | Spirit Shaman | Follow the Guide
6 | Cleric | Spirit Shaman | Ghost Warrior
7 | Radiant Servant of Pelor | Spirit Shaman | Radiance, Extra Greater Turning, Warding of the Spirits
8 | Radiant Servant of Pelor | Spirit Shaman | Divine Health, Empower Healing
9 | Radiant Servant of Pelor | Spirit Shaman | Aura of Warding, Spirit Form 1/day
10 | Radiant Servant of Pelor | Spirit Shaman | Guide Magic
11 | Contemplative | Spirit Shaman | Healing Domain, Recall Spirit
12 | Radiant Servant of Pelor | Spirit Shaman | Glory Domain
13 | Radiant Servant of Pelor | Spirit Shaman | Maximize Healing, Exorcism
14 | Radiant Servant of Pelor | Spirit Shaman | -
15 | Radiant Servant of Pelor | Spirit Shaman | Positive Energy Burst, Spirit Form 2/day
16 | Radiant Servant of Pelor | Spirit Shaman | Weaken Spirits
17 | Radiant Servant of Pelor | Spirit Shaman | Supreme Healing, Spirit Journey
18 | Sacred Exorcist | Spirit Shaman | -
19 | Sacred Exorcist | Spirit Shaman | Detect Evil, Resist Possession, Favored of the Spirits
20 | Sacred Exorcist | Spirit Shaman | Chosen Foe, Spirit Form 3/day, Spirit Who Walks[/table]

Required Feats
Extra Turning before level 7

How it Works
The Radiant Servant's great ability to empower and maximize healing spells is severely hampered by only working for domain spells. However, when a spontaneous caster gains a domain via a prestige class it can choose the domain spells as his spell's known, and cast them as many times as he has available spell slots! Therefore you have the Spirit Shaman class gain the Healing domain via the Contemplative class, and you now have plenty of Maximized, Empowered cure spells. Since you have plenty of turning attempts you can spend them on the feat that allows you to cast touch spells on your allies at a distance if you want,

This build turns as a 18th level cleric, chastises spirits as a 20th level spirit shaman, and exorcises possessing creatures as a 26th level spirit shaman (or 20th level if the levels of Sacred Exorcist and Spirit Shaman don't stack).

He casts spells as an 18th level cleric and a 20th level spirit shaman (with the ability to choose daily known spells from the healing domain).

If you don't mind the cheese points and the loss of two Spirit Shaman levels, you can take both the Contemplative and Radiant Servant classes at level 11 and the Radiant Servant and Sacred Exorcist classes at level 16, which frees up level 17 for another level of Sacred Exorcist. For the cost of two more cheese points and a loss of two Spirit Shaman levels, you gain one cleric casting level, two turning levels, Dispel Evil as a spell-like ability 1/week, and a permanent Consecrate effect following you around.

Ganurath
2008-03-08, 02:38 AM
*looks at list*

...There isn't a lion spirit guide, let alone a golden one. For a Radiant Servant / Sacred Excorcist, might I suggest: Bear, Buffalo, Elk, Rabbit, Scorpian, Snake, or Turtle.

Beren One-Hand
2008-03-08, 03:17 AM
*looks at list*

...There isn't a lion spirit guide, let alone a golden one. For a Radiant Servant / Sacred Excorcist, might I suggest: Bear, Buffalo, Elk, Rabbit, Scorpian, Snake, or Turtle.

Yeah, but since the form of the spirit guide does absolutly nothing, coupled with the fact that it doesn't exist outside the shaman's own mind I felt that a golden lion was a more flavorful guide for the Dawnchaser.

I was originally working on him being a Lammasu or Trumpet Archon, but ran into stupid alingnment restrictions since they are always Lawful Good and you have to be Neutral Good to be a Radiant Servant of Pelor.

Kurald Galain
2008-03-08, 04:43 AM
Say - in the list of "things to come", what happened to the Skill-Monkey Business and the In-Core-igibles?

Nebo_
2008-03-08, 07:10 AM
NameKahn Tse Mi
Race Halfling
Stats Str:6, Dex:22, Con:10, Int:20, Wis:10, Cha: 20
Class Beguiler20//Sorcer 6/Spellsword 1/Abjurant Champion 5/Iot7V 7

Minimum Playable Level 1st
Cheeze Points 0
Power Break Any spell level is going to be a power break, really

Concept Not only am I a double-dipper, I'm double-dipping arcane AND spontanious casting, using Beguiler to fill the enchantment and illusion colleges so I have more spell slots from Sorcerer to devote to other things.

Oh yes, and no obnoxious +LA races, no snakes on a plane, no rediculous class-juggling to get everything to work out right, no cheeze at all. And probably one of the few CORE races to be entered. Probably not the most powerful build, all things considered, but probably one of the hardest to kill.

Gear Mithral Chain Shirt, Gloves of Dex +4, Headband of Intellect +4, Cloak of Charisma +4, Ring of Free Movement, Ring of Invisibility

Tactics It's a royal pain just trying to find this guy. Maxed ranks in Hide and Move Silently, plus Invisibility, Greater Mirror Image, Mind Blank, and other fun toys to keep from being detected. Offense comes from the Sorcerer side, primarily Conjuration and Necromancy effects, very few actual Evocation spells. However, he's no slouch in melee, despite having full casting on both sides. In combat, he's likely to drop a Shield up as a swift action, which gives a +9 shield bonus to AC (thank you Abjurant Champion) to make him very difficult to hit even if you CAN find him.

You can't get into Spellsword without proficiency in all armour. How are you getting it?

Chronos
2008-03-08, 02:27 PM
Cheese points: 0? 1? (how do multiclassing penalties work for gestalt, anyway?)It's not spelled out explicitly, but even by the least permissive interpretation, you're OK. As a human, Warmage (the class you have with the most levels) will count as your favored class, and all the others are balanced (prestige classes don't count).

Actually, you'll still have a few levels relatively early on when Warmage hasn't quite caught up with Sorcerer//Ranger, so by some interpretations, you'd have an XP penalty then. But that's not too big a deal.

Beren One-Hand
2008-03-08, 02:50 PM
You can't get into Spellsword without proficiency in all armour. How are you getting it?

That shouldn't be too hard, by level 7 any race can be proficient with all armors...
Level 1 Feat - Armor Proficiency (Light)
Level 3 Feat - Armor Proficiency (Medium)
Level 6 Feat - Armor Proficiency (Heavy)

It might not be the best use of your feats, but it isn't an issue to do if it is necessary.

ShneekeyTheLost
2008-03-08, 06:26 PM
That shouldn't be too hard, by level 7 any race can be proficient with all armors...
Level 1 Feat - Armor Proficiency (Light)
Level 3 Feat - Armor Proficiency (Medium)
Level 6 Feat - Armor Proficiency (Heavy)

It might not be the best use of your feats, but it isn't an issue to do if it is necessary.

Yea, but I need Combat Casting the next level for AbChamp and another three feats five levels later to qualify for Iot7V...

Hrrrmmm...

Edit: I've gone ahead and submitted to defeat, and made him a Pixie, which negates his need for a Ring of Invisibility, due to his innate Greater Invisibility, and negates the need for Gloves of Dexterity thanks to the +8 racial mod to Dex. I've also removed Spellsword, since I forgot about requiring all armor proficencies to get in. This delays enterance to AbChamp, but I can still fit in Iot7V, so I'm not too worried. He'll keep his Headband and Cloak just because they jack up the DC on his saves.

Kurald Galain
2008-03-08, 06:57 PM
That shouldn't be too hard, by level 7 any race can be proficient with all armors...

Arguably an easier way is a one-level dip into any class that already has armor proficiency - because you get 40 levels in a gestalt build, but only eight or nine feats.

avr
2008-03-08, 11:45 PM
If there's an award for most obscure double dipper this may win it; Shadowcasters in the Tome of Magic are obscure enough, but the Shadowsmith PrC in the same volume is practically unheard of.

Name: Shadows to the Max
Classes: Human Shadowcaster 20 // Swordsage 7 / Shadowsmith 10 / Swordsage +3
Starting Abilities: STR 8, DEX 14, CON 14, INT 14, WIS 12, CHA 14
Minimum Playable Level: 1
Cheese points: 2 (one flaw, needs a headband of intellect later on)
Power Break: L13, when he gets Master level Shadowcaster power and all the Apprentice paths become Su abilities

{table]Level|Side 1|Side 2|Class Features
1|Shadowcaster 1|Swordsage 1|Quick to act +1, discipline focus (Shadow Hand; weapon focus)
2|Shadowcaster 2|Swordsage 2|WIS bonus to AC
3|Shadowcaster 3|Swordsage 3|Darkvision 30'
4|Shadowcaster 4|Swordsage 4|Discipine focus (Shadow Hand; insightful strike, add WIS to damage on SH strike)
5|Shadowcaster 5|Swordsage 5|Sustaining shadow (eat 1 meal/week), quick to act +2
6|Shadowcaster 6|Swordsage 6|
7|Shadowcaster 7|Swordsage 7|Apprentice mysteries (spell-like), sense magic
8|Shadowcaster 8|Shadowsmith 1|Touch of Shadow
9|Shadowcaster 9|Shadowsmith 2|Shroud of Shadow
10|Shadowcaster 10|Shadowsmith 3|Sustaining shadow (sleep 1 hour/day), Shadow craft (basic)
11|Shadowcaster 11|Shadowsmith 4|Darkvision 60' (ignore magical darkness), Armour of Shadow +2
12|Shadowcaster 1|Shadowsmith 5|Widen Shroud
13|Shadowcaster 2|Shadowsmith 6|Apprentice mysteries (Su), Initiate mysteries(spell-like), Shadow craft (enchanted)
14|Shadowcaster 3|Shadowsmith 7|Unlimited uses of fundamentals, Armour of Shadow +4
15|Shadowcaster 4|Shadowsmith 8|Sustaining shadow (immune to poison/disease), Shadow craft (armour)
16|Shadowcaster 5|Shadowsmith 9|Shadow craft (quickened)
17|Shadowcaster 6|Shadowsmith 10|Shadow craft (shadow striking), armour of shadow (quickened)
18|Shadowcaster 7|Swordsage 8|Discipline focus (Shadow Hand; defensive stance, +2 to saves when in a SH stance)
19|Shadowcaster 8|Swordsage 9|Evasion
20|Shadowcaster 9|Swordsage 10|Sustaining shadow (no need to breathe, eat or sleep), quick to act +3[/table]

Shadowcaster Paths
Apprentice: Max out Touch of Twilight & Umbral Mind
Initiate: Start 6 different paths for bonus feats
Master: Max out Eyes of the Night Sky & Dark Metamorphosis, then start Breath of Twilight
Shadowsmith: Dark Terrain path
Fundamentals: Arrow of Dusk, Sight Obscured, Widened eyes, L4: Umbral Hand, L8: Caul of Shadow, L12: Black Candle, L16: Liquid Night, L20: Mystic Reflections

Feats
Flaw: Shaky -> Improved Unarmed Strike
{table]Level|Standard feats|Path bonus feats
1|Shadow Blade
|Adaptive Style
2||Still Mystery
3|Weapon Finesse
6|Blade Meditation (Shadow Hand)
8||Empower Mystery
9|Craft Rod|Line of Shadow
11||Quicken Mystery
12|Craft Staff
13||Maximise Mystery
15|Blade Meditation (Setting Sun)
18|Shadow Cast
19||Enlarge Mystery[/table]

Swordsage Manoeuvres
{table]Level|Manoeuvre|Stance
1|Counter Charge (SS 1)|Child of Shadow (SH 1)
|Shadow Blade Technique (SH 1)
|Clinging Shadow Strike (SH 1)
|Sapphire Nightmare Blade (DM 1)
|Sudden Leap (TC 1)
|Wolf Fang Strike (TC 1)
2|Mighty Throw (SS 1)|Step of the Wind (SS 1)
3|Baffling Defence (SS 2)
4|Cloak of Deception (SH 2)
|Replace Mighty Throw w/Shadow Jaunt (SH 2)
5|Shadow Garrotte (SH 3)|Assassins Stance (SH 3)
6|Mind over Body (DM 3)
|Replace Sapphire N.B. with Feigned Opening (SS 3)
7|Obscuring Shadow Veil (SH 4)
8 (IL 13)|Stalker in the Night (SH 6)|Shifting Defence (SS 5)
|Replace Shadow Jaunt w/Shadow Blink (SH 7)
9 (IL 14)|Scorpion Parry (SS 6)
10 (IL 15)|One with Shadow (SH 8)
|replace Sudden Leap w/Enervating Shadow Str. (SH 8)[/table]

Offensive:
If you hold the charge on a touch mystery you should be able to use it with Swordsage Shadow Hand strikes; unarmed strikes are even a favored weapon for that discipline, so the Blade Meditation feat will count also. With medium-to-good BAB (+17 by L20) and the feats listed you aren't too shabby in melee even without these.
Once you have a few rods and/or a staff you can deliver some full-caster firepower more than once per day, which should be fun.

Defensive:
Good Will and Reflex saves, light armour with a shield if desired (no ASF from 2nd level), WIS bonus added to AC, swordsage counters (including the one which lets you replace a Fort save with a Concentration check), and really amazing sneakiness - this is where this character excels. Many of his buffs are supernatural abilities, which can't be dispelled.
About the sneakiness. This is the focus of the Shadowsmith, in particular the Shroud of Shadow ability. The Swordsage abilities add to it and use it - the Stalker in the Night manoeuvre is an example of the latter.

Weaknesses:
Serious MAD - the only stat he can dump is STR (thanks to the Shadow Blade & Weapon Finesse feats). Needs to craft at least a few lesser metashadow rods later, and may have to demonstrate juggling skills when using them. Crafting rods and staves can get expensive, though you may be able to save on weapons due to your shadowsmith abilities.

Benejeseret
2008-03-09, 05:42 PM
Ultimate Goth Girl

Deathtouched Race (+1 lvl)

Charisma main stat maxed base = 27

Bard (Harbinger) 20//Hexblade (Dark Companion) 19

Feats such as Curse of Ignorance, Curse of Distraction, Curse of Paranoia, Empower Curse, lingering song, extra song, dragon song, enchanting song, Focused performer/performance

With the Free Action curses and dark companion can drain -11 from Will Saves, no saves from companion and can try curse until it works (4-5 tries) DC=28+. She then plays (focused, individual performance) to drain off another -16 from Will Saves from one creature (DC=30+ plus the will save is already -11).

In one round the will saves are around -27 and her DC to then cast an enchantment spell is around DC=30+.

Against spell casters throw on the Curse of Ignorance and Distraction and they are making a DC=27+spell level at Concentration -16 check (or more) to cast even if they win initiative (free actions).

Everyone will follow her to the ends of the earth and rock till they die.

ShneekeyTheLost
2008-03-09, 06:35 PM
Everyone will follow her to the ends of the earth and rock till they die.

Except, of course, those who have Mind Blank and are immune to mind-affecting abilities. Like most arcane casters high enough level to cast 8th level spells. Better have some method of Dispel available to drop their buffs.

Benejeseret
2008-03-09, 08:14 PM
That's what her legion of groupies are for, she would never go anywhere alone.

The only equipment dependency she would have is a masterwork disguise kit (dark makeup).

avr
2008-03-09, 11:08 PM
Psionics are very nice, but you need 2 casting stats to double-dip them in gestalt - or do you? There is a Psionic Artificer in Magic of Eberron ...

Name: Death from Above
Classes: Half-elf Kineticist 20 // Psionic Artificer 5 / Dragonmarked Heir 2 / Windwright Captain 5 / Psionic Artificer +8
Starting Abilities: STR 8, DEX 14, CON 14, INT 16, WIS 10, CHA 12 (level ups into INT)
Minimum Playable Level: 1
Cheese Points: zero
Power Break: Level 3 infusions (Character level 5) are great. Gets his own airship at level 9!

{table]Level|Side 1|Side 2|Class Features
1|Kineticist 1|Psionic Artificer 1|Artificer knowledge, artisan bonus, disable trap, item creation
2|Kineticist 2|Psionic Artificer 2|
3|Kineticist 3|Psionic Artificer 3|
4|Kineticist 4|Psionic Artificer 4|
5|Kineticist 5|Psionic Artificer 5|Retain essence
6|Kineticist 6|Dragonmarked Heir 1|Lesser dragonmark, house status
7|Kineticist 7|Dragonmarked Heir 2|Improved least dragonmark, additional action points
8|Kineticist 8|Windwright Captain 1|Shipboard fighter, master pilot, dragonmark control
9|Kineticist 9|Windwright Captain 2|Uncanny dodge
10|Kineticist 10|Windwright Captain 3|Rebuke elementals
11|Kineticist 11|Windwright Captain 4|Lesser shipbond
12|Kineticist 12|Windwright Captain 5|Greater shipbond
13|Kineticist 13|Psionic Artificer 6|metapsionic spell trigger
14|Kineticist 14|Psionic Artificer 7|
15|Kineticist 15|Psionic Artificer 8|
16|Kineticist 16|Psionic Artificer 9|
17|Kineticist 17|Psionic Artificer 10|
18|Kineticist 18|Psionic Artificer 11|metapsionic power completion
19|Kineticist 19|Psionic Artificer 12|
20|Kineticist 20|Psionic Artificer 13|[/table]

Feats
{table]Level|Standard feats|Psion bonus|Psionic Artificer bonus
1|Least Dragonmark (storm)|Psicrystal Affinity|Imprint Stone
2|||Scribe Tattoo
3|Favored in House||Craft Universal Item
4|||Empower Power
5||Psicrystal Containment|Craft Psionic Arms and Armour
6|Overchannel
9|Greater Dragonmark (storm)
10||Quicken Power
12|Talented
14|||Craft Dorje
15|Psionic Endowment|Unconditional Power|Dorje Mastery
16|||Craft Cognizance Crystal
18|Greater Psionic Endowment
19|||Enlarge Power
|||Craft Psicrown
20||Twin Power[/table]

Powers
Too many powers to list them all, but Energy Missile (Level 2 power), Control Body (Level 4), Fiery Discorporation (Level 5), Dispelling Buffer & Psionic Contingency (both 6) are highlights.
Manifests Kineticist powers at full caster level (+ up to 3 from Overchannel), Artificer infusions at caster level 16 at character level 20.

Offensive
Um. Kineticist level 20 = Yes.

Defensive
Medium armour and a shield if desired, which you do. The shield matters because you can enchant it with infusions like Armor Enhancement, Greater which allow you to give it the Time Buttress property, which can save your butt in an emergency. Other infusions can also be useful defensively (Resistance Item boosts saves & Lucky Cape lets you reroll a save, for example). The Fiery Discorporation power can also save your life; I guess that airship will be powered by a fire elemental? There are many other good defensive powers too, and if you want one that isn't within your discipline you can make an item which holds it.
Your best defence is a bunch of buffed friends though. Infusions are not selfish the way psionic powers are in this respect.

Weaknesses
d6 HD, one good save - a couple of levels of Dragonmarked heir mitigate but do not eliminate this.

Talic
2008-03-09, 11:40 PM
That's what her legion of groupies are for, she would never go anywhere alone.

The only equipment dependency she would have is a masterwork disguise kit (dark makeup).

You did look at my nymph entry, with a charisma base of 42? Everyone follows her BEFORE magic's used. With a perform mod of +40, almost anyone will go to helpful with a song and dance, and then to fanatic with the following diplomacy rap session... If she really wanted that.

Oddly enough, all I was trying to do was boost the DC for the blinding and stunning abilities. But the fact that she ends up being able to intimidate a pit fiend is certainly good bonus frosting.

Chronos
2008-03-10, 12:11 AM
A nice simple build:

Tom-Jon:
Human Bard 20 // Sorcerer 15/Archmage 3/Sorcerer 2
Minimum Playable Level: 1
Cheese points: 0

{table=head]ECL | Left class | Right class | Feats | Special
1 | Bard 1 | Sorcerer 1 | Melodic Casting, Spell Focus: Conjuration | Bardic music, bardic knowledge, countersong, fascinate, inspire courage +1, summon familiar
2 | Bard 2 | Sorcerer 2 | |
3 | Bard 3 | Sorcerer 3 | Song of the Heart | Inspire competence
4 | Bard 4 | Sorcerer 4 | |
5 | Bard 5 | Sorcerer 5 | |
6 | Bard 6 | Sorcerer 6 | Extend Spell | Suggestion
7 | Bard 7 | Sorcerer 7 | |
8 | Bard 8 | Sorcerer 8 | | Inspire courage +3
9 | Bard 9 | Sorcerer 9 | Arcane Disciple: Strength | Inspire greatness
10 | Bard 10 | Sorcerer 10 | |
11 | Bard 11 | Sorcerer 11 | |
12 | Bard 12 | Sorcerer 12 | Spell Focus: Transmutation | Song of freedom
13 | Bard 13 | Sorcerer 13 | |
14 | Bard 14 | Sorcerer 14 | | Inspire courage +4
15 | Bard 15 | Sorcerer 15 | Skill Focus: Spellcraft | Inspire Heroics
16 | Bard 16 | Archmage 1 | | Arcane Reach
17 | Bard 17 | Archmage 2 | | Mastery of Shaping
18 | Bard 18 | Archmage 3 | Chain Spell | Mass suggestion, Spell-Like Ability (Shades)
19 | Bard 19 | Sorcerer 16 | |
20 | Bard 20 | Sorcerer 17 | | Inspire courage +5[/table]

Sorcerer spells:
0: Prestidigitation, Detect Magic, Resistance, Ghost Sound, Mage Hand, Mending, Message, Open/Close, Arcane Mark
1: Protection from Evil, Identify, Charm Person, Silent Image, Enlarge Person
2: Resist Energy, Glitterdust, Web, Detect Thoughts, Minor Image
3: Magic Vestment, Stinking Cloud, Greater Magic Weapon, Shrink Item
4: Spell Immunity, Black Tentacles, Resilient Sphere, Greater Invisibility
5: Wall of Stone, Telepathic Bond, Shadow Evocation, Baleful Polymorph
6: Antimagic Field, Acid Fog, Disintegrate
7: Plane Shift, Greater Teleport, Statue
8: Mind Blank, Maze, Polymorph Any Object
9: Shades, Foresight, Astral Projection

Bard spells:
0: Dancing Lights, Lullaby, Summon Instrument, Cure Minor Wounds, Read Magic, Ghost Sound
1: Improvisation, Cure Light Wounds, Feather Fall, Grease, Magic Mouth,
2: Blur, Delay Poison, Locate Object, Shatter, Rage
3: Glibness, Sculpt Sound, Phantom Steed, Scrying, Haste
4: Cure Critical Wounds, Freedom of Movement, Legend Lore, Modify Memory, Speak with Plants
5: Greater Dispel Magic, Greater Heroism, Shadow Evocation, Seeming, Persistent Image
6: Analyze Dweomer, Find the Path, Hero's Feast, Greater Scrying

Tactics: Tom-Jon is built to be a buff-bot. He uses Chain Spell, Arcane Reach, and Extend Spell to give all of his team-mates long-duration buffs such as Greater Heroism, Greater Magic Weapon, Magic Vestment, Spell Immunity, Mind Blank, Greater Invisibility, and Haste. In combat, he sings to inspire his allies, and continues to cast spells to hinder enemies or help allies thanks to Melodic Casting. Although not a primary healer, he can get an ally back on es feet via Song of Freedom or Cure Critical Wounds. Out of combat, he also has several useful divinations to guide the party towards a goal or help them to prepare.

Strengths: Full casting as a sorcerer and bard, SAD on Charisma
Weakness: His spell choice is geared towards helping allies, so he won't do well solo.

Work in progress-- I'd like to find some other good prestige classes for the sorcerer side.

Squash Monster
2008-03-10, 01:14 AM
Wait, there's a psionic artificer? I was trying to figure out a way to get an artificer into this competition, fantastic.


Lord-Master of the Mecha-Gouda

Minimum Playable Level: 1, but I'd wait till 3 or so
Cheese Points: All of them.
Power break: Every odd-numbered level
Race: Human

{table=header]ECL | Class 1 | Class 2 | BAB | HD | Class Features
1 | Artificer | Psionic Artificer | 0 | d6 | Artificer knowledge, artisan bonus, disable trap, item creation, Scribe Scroll, Imprint Stone
2 | Artificer | Psionic Artificer | 1 | d6 | Brew Potion, Scribe Tattoo
3 | Artificer | Psionic Artificer | 2 | d6 | Craft Wonderous Item, Craft Universal Item
4 |Artificer | Psionic Artificer | 3 | d6 | Craft homunculus, bonus feat, bonus feat (psionic)
5 | Artificer | Psionic Artificer | 3 | d6 | Craft Magic Arms and Armor, retain essence, Craft Psionic Arms and Armor
6 | Artificer | Psionic Artificer | 4 | d6 | Metamagic spell trigger
7 | Artificer | Psionic Artificer | 5 | d6 | Craft Wand, Craft Dorje
8 | Artificer | Psionic Artificer | 6/1 | d6 | Bonus feat, Bonus feat (psionic)
9 | Artificer | Psionic Artificer | 6/1 | d6 | Craft Rod, Craft Cognizance Crystal
10 | Artificer | Psionic Artificer | 7/2 | d6 |
11 | Artificer | Psionic Artificer | 8/3 | d6 | Metamagic spell completion
12 | Artificer | Psionic Artificer | 9/4 | d6 | Craft staff, bonus feat, Craft Psicrown, bonus feat (psionic)
13 |Artificer | Psionic Artificer | 9/4 | d6 | Skill mastery
14 | Artificer | Psionic Artificer | 10/5 | d6 | Forge Ring, Craft Psionic Construct
15 | Artificer | Psionic Artificer | 11/6/1 | d6 |
16 | Artificer | Psionic Artificer | 12/7/2 | d6 | Bonus feat, Bonus feat (psionic)
17 | Artificer | Psionic Artificer | 12/7/2 | d6 |
18 | Artificer | Psionic Artificer | 13/8/3 | d6 |
19 | Artificer | Psionic Artificer | 14/9/4 | d6 |
20 | Artificer | Psionic Artificer | 15/10/5 | d6 | Bonus feat, Bonus feat (psionic)
[/table]

Expected HP:
20d6 + 60 = 130 HP

Feats:
1st: Skill Focus: Use Magic Device
1st: Skill Focus: Use Psionic Device
3rd: Stand Still
4th bonus: Extend Spell
4th bonus psionic: Chain Power
6th: Empower Power
8th bonus: Persistant Spell
8th bonus psionic: Spit Psionic Ray
9th: Unconditional Power
12th: Craft Construct
12th bonus: Extra Rings
12th bonus psionic: Twin Power
15th: Craft Contingent Spell
16th bonus: Wand Mastery
16th bonus psionic: Burrowing Power
18th: Dual Wand-Wielding
20th bonus: Quicken Spell
20th bonus psionic: Maximize Power

Strengths:
Cast any spell two levels early via items.
Invoke any power two levels early via items.
Cherry-pick the best of spells and powers.
Two crafting reserves.

Weaknesses:
You could roll a 1 on all your crafting checks, I guess. At least until level 13.

Base Stats:
STR: 8
DEX: 8
CON: 16
WIS: 10
INT: 16
CHA: 16
Put all your bonuses into Intelligence.

How it works:
I don't even begin to know how you use this build to its maximum potential. Use Expansion and Divine Power to make Divine Power/Righteous Might look silly, for starters. The bonus feats were set up so you can be an uber ray-specialist on one side and a buff monster on the other.

Items:
Lots. Make sure you make custom +skill items in Use Psionic Device and Use Magic Device.

Playability:
You win instantly, prettymuch.

SamTheCleric
2008-03-10, 07:59 AM
Wow, lots of good entries this time around... :)

Duke of URL
2008-03-10, 08:49 AM
Say - in the list of "things to come", what happened to the Skill-Monkey Business and the In-Core-igibles?

I cut-and-pasted an old text block, maybe? :smallredface:

Shishnarfne
2008-03-10, 09:23 AM
Just here to eat brains...

Mind Flayer Psion//War Mind coming in this space when I have time to add it in...

RHD 8/ Psion (telepath) 12// LA 7/Psi War 1/War Mind 10/Psi War 2

Dedicated to improving grapple checks for the easier consumption of those tasty, tasty brains.

Edit: Here's the build promised:

Level Classes Feats/Abilities
1 RHD/LA Skill Focus: Concentration
2 RHD/LA
3 RHD/LA Improved Grapple
4 RHD/LA
5 RHD/LA
6 RHD/LA Expanded Knowledge:Grip of Iron
7 RHD/LA
8 RHD/ PsiWar1 Psionic Fist, Armor Proficiency
9 Psion/War Mind1 Psionic Meditation, Unavoidable Strike, Chain of Personal Superiority +2
10 Psion/War Mind
11 Psion/War Mind Defensive Posture +2
12 Psion/WarMind Quicken Power,
13 Psion/War Mind Empower Power,
14 Psion/WarMind
15 Psion/WarMind Personal Superiority +4, Multiattack
16 Psion/WarMind Enduring Body 3/-
17 Psion/WarMind
18 Psion/Warmind Overwhelming Force, Power Penetration, Greater Power Penetration
19 Psion/PsiWar Power Attack
20 Psion/PsiWar

BAB: +17
Fort: +13 base
Ref: +11 Base
Will: +14 base
Key Powers known:
Grip of Iron (psion, EK), Vigor, Offensive Precog
Dispel Psionics, Touchsight
Psionic Iron Body, Schism, Temporal Accleration
War mind: Expansion, Compression, Hustle, Psionic Lion's Charge


Stats:
Base Racial Levels Boost Gear
Str 16 18 21 26 32
Dex 10 14
Con 14 16 20 26
Int 14 22 26 32
Wis 12 18
Cha 8 14

Despite a worse than normal Mind Blast DC, this still manifests as a 21 level psion (8 RHD manifest as level 9 psion, XPH), which combined with improved saves and HD (and heavy armor proficiency), makes this Mindflayer a tougher than normal brain eater.

The War Mind not only allows boosts to physical stats but also boosts AB while providing several very useful powers... Including Expansion and Compression to increase the ability to eat brains of organisms of any size...

I'll edit in an Equip list if there's an overwhelming desire for it.

Modified HP: 272 (312 with boosted Con) pre-Vigor
Fort +26, Ref +18, Will +23 (includes cloak +5)
Grapple +32 +size + Grip of Iron + 2 (boosted Str) (Improved Grab and Extract)
AC: 37
DR 3/-
Power Resistance 37
speed 20 ft...

Cheese Points: It feels wrong to use 8HD to get 9 manifester levels... Possibly one for uneven class progression?

Minimum Playable ECL: 8
Power Breaks: 9, Personal Superiority + Unavoidable Strike (land those tentacles as touch attacks), 18's not bad, either...
Strengths: Grapples for the Insta-win... 21st level manifester, able to boost Str and Con to quite high levels for brief amounts of time. Able to use Schism to continue manifesting while eating brains. Decent Power Resist for ECL 20...
Weaknesses: Foes immune to grapples or with too high of a grapple check to win against... Very hard to disguise an evil mind flayer, even in full plate. Lower than normal Mind Blast DC limits effectiveness somewhat.

avr
2008-03-10, 04:03 PM
Wait, there's a psionic artificer? I was trying to figure out a way to get an artificer into this competition, fantastic.

By RAW, you can't take levels in both Artificer & Psionic Artificer. I'm not saying you can't do it, but it's probably worth a few cheese points.

Chronos
2008-03-10, 04:25 PM
So, Duke, since you're here... Any update on when we'll be voting on the invokers?

Squash Monster
2008-03-10, 08:06 PM
By RAW, you can't take levels in both Artificer & Psionic Artificer. I'm not saying you can't do it, but it's probably worth a few cheese points.Well, both sides are perfectly legal, and there's no alignment gymnastics required to get both, so I figured it was reasonable enough. But yes, I think it's cheesy too. I'd like to direct your attention to the cheese point total on that entry.

Duke of URL
2008-03-10, 08:54 PM
So, Duke, since you're here... Any update on when we'll be voting on the invokers?

Well, that would explain why I haven't seen any pings on that thread. Did I forget to post the voting opening?

(( Runs off to check ))

Oops. I'll fix that tomorrow AM. :smallredface:

avr
2008-03-10, 10:07 PM
Well, both sides are perfectly legal, and there's no alignment gymnastics required to get both, so I figured it was reasonable enough. But yes, I think it's cheesy too. I'd like to direct your attention to the cheese point total on that entry.

Somehow I missed that. Fair enough.

ShneekeyTheLost
2008-03-10, 11:05 PM
Well, both sides are perfectly legal, and there's no alignment gymnastics required to get both, so I figured it was reasonable enough. But yes, I think it's cheesy too. I'd like to direct your attention to the cheese point total on that entry.

The only problem is... he isn't a Double Dipper. He's Arcane/Psionic. The whole point of the competition is arcane//arcane or psionic//psionic. So he can't even qualify to enter the contest, cheeze points or no.

Squash Monster
2008-03-10, 11:09 PM
The only problem is... he isn't a Double Dipper. He's Arcane/Psionic. The whole point of the competition is arcane//arcane or psionic//psionic. So he can't even qualify to enter the contest, cheeze points or no.He's infusions//infusions.

Beren One-Hand
2008-03-11, 02:51 AM
Seeing Chronos' entry I couldn't resist...

Name: Ilúvatar's Mouthpiece
Build: Aaismar Divine Bard / War Chanter / Seeker of the Song // Paladin of Freedom / Divine Bard
Starting Ability Scores: STR 13, DEX 14, CON 12, INT 13, WIS 14, CHA 14
Cheese Points: 0
Minimum Playable Level: 1
Power Break: ?

{table=head]ECL | Left Class | Right Class | Songs Known | Special Abilities
1 LA +1 | Paladin of Freedom | - | Aura of Good, Detect Evil, Smite Evil 1/day, Aasimar Traits
2 Divine Bard | Paladin of Freedom | Countersong, Fascinate (1 creature), Inspire Courage (+1) | Bardic Lore, Bardic Music, Divine Grace, Lay on Hands
3 Divine Bard | Paladin of Freedom | - | Aura of Resolve, Divine Health
4 Divine Bard | Paladin of Freedom | Inspire Competence | Turn Undead
5 War Chanter | Paladin of Freedom | Fascinate (2 creatures), Inspire Toughness | War Chanter Music, Special Mount, Smite Evil 2/day
6 War Chanter | Divine Bard | - | -
7 War Chanter | Divine Bard | Inspire Recklessness | -
8 War Chanter | Divine Bard | Fascinate (3 creatures), Suggestion | -
9 War Chanter | Divine Bard | - | Combine Songs (Bardic and/or War Chanter)
10 War Chanter | Divine Bard | Inspire Courage (+2), Inspire Toughness (Die Hard) | -
11 Seeker of the Song | Divine Bard | Fascinate (4 creatures), Inspire Greatness (1 ally), Burning Melody | Seeker Music, Rapture of the Song (+2 AC)
12 Seeker of the Song | Divine Bard | Song of Unmaking | Combine Songs (Bardic and/or Seeker)
13 Seeker of the Song | Divine Bard | Dirge of Frozen Loss | -
14 Seeker of the Song | Divine Bard | Fascinate (5 creatures), Inspire Greatness (2 allies), Song of Freedom, Song of Life | Rapture of the Song (+2 Saves)
15 Seeker of the Song | Divine Bard | Anthem of Thunder and Pain | Subvocalize
16 Seeker of the Song | Divine Bard | Inspire Courage (+3), Hymn of Spelldeath | -
17 Seeker of the Song | Divine Bard | Fascinate (6 creatures), Inspire Greatness (3 allies), Inspire Heroics (1 ally), Ballad of Agony Reborn | Rapture of the Song (DR 2/-)
18 Seeker of the Song | Divine Bard | Aria of Anywhere | -
19 Seeker of the Song | Divine Bard | Dirge of Songdeath | -
20 Seeker of the Song | Divine Bard | Fascinate (7 creatures), Inspire Greatness (4 allies), Inspire Heroics (2 allies), Suggestion (Mass), Note of Solitude | Rapture of the Song (Freedom of Movement)[/table]

Required Feats
Level 1: Weapon Focus
Level 2: Combat Expertise
Skill Focus (Perform: String Instruments) by 11th level

Final Abilities
While not technically a double dip of spellcasting, Ilúvatar's Mouthpiece is definitely a double and a half dip of supernatural and spell-like abilities powered by song.

Bardic Music: 34 times per day. (18 Divine Bard + 10 Seeker of the Song + 6 War Chanter)
- Countersong: Allies can use your Perform check to save against [Sonic] and [Language-Dependent] magic attacks.
- Inspire Courage: +3 morale bonus to attack rolls, weapon damage rolls, and saves vs Charm/Fear for as long as you play + 5 rounds thereafter.
- *Fascinate: Up to 7 creatures within 90' fascinated for up to 18 rounds. (Will save DC = Perform check).
- *Inspire Competence: 1 ally gets a +2 competence bonus to one skill (for 2 minutes max).
- Suggestion, Mass: Does not use a daily Bardic Music use. All creatures fascinated receive a Suggestion. Will save negates (DC = 19 + your Cha bonus).
- Inspire Greatness: 4 allies within 30' get 2 temporary HD (d10's), +2 competence bonus to attack, & +1 competence bonus to Fortitude for as long as you play + 5 rounds thereafter.
- Inspire Heroics: After 1 round of playing, gives up to two allies w/in 30' a +4 morale bonus to saves & +4 dodge bonus to AC for as long as you play + 5 rounds thereafter.
- *Song of Freedom: After 1 minute of playing, 1 ally within 30' gets a Break Enchantment spell cast upon him (CL 18).

War Chanter Music: Uses 1 Bardic Music each time used.
- Inspire Toughness: All allies gain +12 temporary HP and the Die Hard feat for as long as you play + 5 rounds thereafter.
- Inspire Recklessness: 1 ally within 60' can take an AC penalty and add that as an attack bonus (cannot take more than his BAB). Each round he can choose a different number. This ability lasts for as long as you play + 5 rounds thereafter.

Seeker Music: Uses 1 Bardic Music each time used. If you are already using a Seeker Song that has a Refrain, you can use 1 Bardic Music use to activate it as a swift action.
- Burning Melody: All w/in 30' gain Fire Resistance 15.
(Refrain): Creates a 30' cone of fire (6d6 damage, Ref save 33 halves)
- Song of Unmaking: Deals 10d8 damage to all constructs within a 30' burst.
- Dirge of Frozen Loss: All w/in 30' gain Cold Resistance 15.
(Refrain): Creates a 60' line of cold. (10d6 damage + Fatigue, Fort save 33 halves and negates the Fatigue)
- Song of Life: All w/in 30' gain immunity to Poison and Disease.
(Refrain): Living creature touched (as a standard action) heals a number of HP equal to your perform check (up to his maximum HP).
- Anthem of Thunder and Pain: All w/in 30' gain Electricity Resistance 15.
(Refrain): Creates a 20' ray of electricity (10d6 damage, ranged touch attack). If it hits its target it can arc towards up to 3 other creatures within 20' of the initial target. Each arc gets its own ranged touch attack roll and deals half the initial damage.
- *Hymn of Spelldeath: All who hear the song must make a Concentration check (DC = Perform check) to successfully cast a spell.
(Refrain): Dispel Magic (as an area dispel, centered upon you) with a caster level of 28. You can designate yourself and your allies immune from this dispelling effect.
- Ballad of Agony Reborn: All w/in 30' gain Acid Resistance 15.
(Refrain): Creates a 60' ray of acid (10d6 damage + 10d6 damage next round, ranged touch attack)
- Aria of Anywhere: Can teleport anywhere within 50' as a self-only Dimension Door.
- *Dirge of Songdeath: All w/in 30' gain Sonic Resistance 15. Anyone who hears the song must make an opposed Perform check to successfully activate any music effects.
(Refrain): Creates a 60' ray of sonic energy (15d6 damage, ranged touch attack)
- Note of Solitude: All outsiders within 60' must make a Will save (DC 33) or be forced back to their home plane. They get their HD as a bonus to the save. This song is an instantaneous effect and cannot be maintained.

* = Requires Concentration (a standard action each round) to keep active.

Any time his is using a song he gains +2 AC, +2 to all saves, DR 2/- and a Freedom of Movement effect.

Each time he uses a song he can combine any two bardic music effects, any two war chanter music effects, any two seeker songs, or a combination of bardic music and war chanter/seeker music and if either (or both) of them requires concentration, he can maintain them with a single standard action.

His subvocalization ability allows him to add a seeker song or bardic music effect to a currently active song (as a swift action), as long as there is no more than one seeker song or bardic music active already. Because of this he can start with a combined Inspire Toughness & Inspire Courage, then next round he can bring in a Hymn of Spelldeath to start wreaking havoc upon the enemies spellcasters.

Casts as an 18th level Divine Bard and a 5th level Paladin of Freedom. If he uses a MW string instrument to activate his Bardic Music, he can cast spells while playing - if the spells have no somatic, material, or focus components.

If you don't mind the cheese, keep progressing the war chanter levels to 10th level which allows you to target one foe and make him shaken, frightened, panicked, or paralyzed (based on the difference between your HD's). You also get the ability to grant a +4 enhancement bonus to Strength to all allies within 60' (for 5 rounds), and the great capstone ability of giving all allies within 60' the highest BAB of all the creature's affected - thereby allowing an army to irregulars to fight as if they were 20th level fighters. For all of this you'd lose the Inspire Heroics ability, Mass Suggestion ability, 4 caster levels, and can only Fascinate 5 creatures as well as Inspire Greatness in only 2 allies.

playswithfire
2008-03-11, 09:46 AM
Well, if we can double dip into 'Blade Magic' for this, I may put together a true master of nine

Elf Swordsage 2/Warblade 2/Swordsage+16//Crusader 6/Warblade 4/Eternal Blade 5/Master of Nine 5

Initiator level 19 for all disciplines; knows 40-some-odd maneuvers including all 9 level 9 maneuvers, will have about 30 of them readied

Chronos
2008-03-11, 12:40 PM
OK, here's another idea...

Master of his Own Domain
Build: Human Druid 5 / Master of Many Forms 10 / Nature's Warrior 5 // Archivist 5 / Whatever 3 / Sacred Exorcist 1 / Whatever 1 / Planar Shepherd 10 / Whatever 4
Ability Scores: Int as high as possible, Wis 14, others whatever
Minimum Playable Level:[b] 1
[b]Power Break: 11, planar bubble; 12, assume extraordinary ability
Cheese points: Technically only two: Simultaneous prestige classes, and item dependence (scroll of Genesis). Technically.

{table=head]ECL | Left Class | Right Class | Feats
1 | Druid 1 | Archivist 1 | Greensong Initiate, Alertness, Scribe Scroll
2 | Druid 2 | Archivist 2 |
3 | Druid 3 | Archivist 3 | Endurance
4 | Druid 4 | Archivist 4 |
5 | Druid 5 | Archivist 5 |
6 | Master of Many Forms 1 | Whatever 1 | Natural Spell
7 | Master of Many Forms 2 | Whatever 2 |
8 | Master of Many Forms 3 | Whatever 3 |
9 | Master of Many Forms 4 | Sacred Exorcist 1 | Divine Spell Power
10 | Master of Many Forms 5 | Whatever 4 |
11 | Master of Many Forms 6 | Planar Shepherd 1
12 | Master of Many Forms 7 | Planar Shepherd 2 | Whatever
13 | Master of Many Forms 8 | Planar Shepherd 3
14 | Master of Many Forms 9 | Planar Shepherd 4
15 | Master of Many Forms 10 | Planar Shepherd 5 | Track
16 | Nature's Warrior 1 | Planar Shepherd 6
17 | Nature's Warrior 2 | Planar Shepherd 7
18 | Nature's Warrior 3 | Planar Shepherd 8 | Whatever
19 | Nature's Warrior 4 | Planar Shepherd 9
20 | Nature's Warrior 5 | Planar Shepherd 10[/table]

Planar Shepherd advances Archivist. The "Whatever" class can be anything that advances Archivist spellcasting, and the "Whatever" feats can be anything (probably metamagic). It just doesn't matter; he's awesome no matter what he picks there.

At tenth level, Master purchases a scroll of Genesis, applies as much CL boosting as he can (so as to reliably use it), and casts it (yay, Creation domain), creating a plane that's dominant for all four elements and positive energy, is strongly aligned NG (Master's alignment), has flowing time at 1 Material : 100 plane, and has crushingly strong gravity. Such a plane would be near-instantly lethal, but he doesn't enter it just yet.

At eleventh level, when he takes Planar Shepherd, he chooses his custom-made plane as his attuned plane, and now suffers no ill effects from his plane's traits. While in his plane or planar bubble, he acts a hundred times for everyone else's single action and gains 5 temporary hit points per round (500 per Material Plane round), without risk of Death by Awesome. Anyone else trying to invade his personal space, meanwhile, has to deal with all of the various unpleasentnesses associated with his home.

Meanwhile, he's also got all of the Master of Many Forms awesomeness (spellcasting wisp, say), while casting spells from the cleric, druid, ranger, paladin, adept, shugenja, divine bard, and all domain lists.

Weakness: A Genesis plane doesn't come with any life, so the "wildshape into creatures native to your plane" feature of Planar Shepherd won't work. He'll just have to settle for MoMF's Wildshape options. Oh, boo hoo.

Beren One-Hand
2008-03-11, 12:52 PM
OK, here's another idea...

Master of his Own Domain
Build: Human Druid 5 / Master of Many Forms 10 / Nature's Warrior 5 // Archivist 5 / Whatever 3 / Sacred Exorcist 1 / Whatever 1 / Planar Shepherd 10 / Whatever 4
Ability Scores: Int as high as possible, Wis 14, others whatever
Minimum Playable Level:[b] 1
[b]Power Break: 11, planar bubble; 12, assume extraordinary ability
Cheese points: Technically only two: Simultaneous prestige classes, and item dependence (scroll of Genesis). Technically.

Neat idea, but isn't the cheese total more like 12 ( or 17 if the Whatever is a Prestige Class)? I was under the impression that the dual prestige cheese points were 1 for each level that has two prestige classes.

ShneekeyTheLost
2008-03-11, 12:56 PM
Weakness: A Genesis plane doesn't come with any life, so the "wildshape into creatures native to your plane" feature of Planar Shepherd won't work. He'll just have to settle for MoMF's Wildshape options. Oh, boo hoo.

Here's another one: Reach more than double your hit points in temporary hit points from positive energy and you blow up in a big ball of overhealing. Either you don't get the healing from the Positive Energy (citing your Planar Shepherd immunities), or you blow up.

Duke of URL
2008-03-11, 01:56 PM
entires Closed -- Please Do Not Post Or Edit New Entries At This Time

Chronos
2008-03-11, 04:50 PM
Neat idea, but isn't the cheese total more like 12 ( or 17 if the Whatever is a Prestige Class)?You may be right; I'm not quite sure which way the Cheese Point rules are meant to be interpreted. But I think it's safe to say that the build isn't really trying to minimize cheese, and 16 cheese points is a slightly better approximation to the its true cheesiness than is 2.


Here's another one: Reach more than double your hit points in temporary hit points from positive energy and you blow up in a big ball of overhealing. Either you don't get the healing from the Positive Energy (citing your Planar Shepherd immunities), or you blow up.As I understand it, Planar Shepherds get immunity to the harmful aspects of their plane. Gaining extra HP isn't harmful. Blowing up is.

And just for the record, I wouldn't allow anything resembling this in any game I were DMing, nor would I consider playing it even if a DM did allow it. This is purely a thought exercise.

SamTheCleric
2008-03-11, 10:32 PM
C'mon Bards... we can do it!

Talic
2008-03-12, 06:02 AM
As I understand it, Planar Shepherds get immunity to the harmful aspects of their plane. Gaining extra HP isn't harmful. Blowing up is.

Ah, but it's a single effect. Gaining HP that causes you to explode. It's harmful.

Duke of URL
2008-03-12, 01:17 PM
NOW VOTING

Please post votes in-thread by Monday, March 17 and noon PST for any or all of the following categories:

Double Dipper Deluxe - The one build that best meets the challenge goals

Subcategories:


Awesome Arcanist - Best arcane double-dipper

Psuper Psionist - Best psionic double-dipper

Zounds! A 'Zilla - Best divine double-dipper

Huh? - The build that somehow meets challenge goals, but using a very unusual combination of race, classes, and/or feats

Party Animal - You know you want to play it... or at least have one in your party

Gouda - Cheese, glorious cheese. Some of you are under the mistaken impression that winning this is a good thing.

Submitted Entires:

"Religion of ME" (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4024282&postcount=2)
"G’rean Ch’ez" (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4024371&postcount=3)
"The Schizo Phrenic of Smack" (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4024394&postcount=4)
"Will, the Whippomancer" (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4024408&postcount=5)
"Jerald, the Rainbow Warrior" (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4024532&postcount=6)
"CaDzilla" (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4025908&postcount=7)
"Zilla, The Nature's Cleanser" (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4025956&postcount=8)
"Gloom that Rides" (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4026118&postcount=10)
"Debroah, Protector of All Living Things" (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4026206&postcount=12)
"Anonymous" (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4028221&postcount=25)
"Look ma! I'm a spellcaster!" (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4028272&postcount=28)
"Life is Overrated" (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4029033&postcount=38)
"Ultimate Cheese!" (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4030264&postcount=40)
"Baby Bel, Stilton Extrodinair" (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4030685&postcount=41)
"Lillendra, Corrupted Nymph" (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4030963&postcount=43)
"Kahn Tse Mi" (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4032354&postcount=47)
"The Ultimate Beholder Magus" (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4032576&postcount=48)
"Cambreadth" (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4035078&postcount=56)
"Helios Dawnchaser" (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4035158&postcount=57)
"Shadows to the Max" (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4038758&postcount=66)
"Ultimate Goth Girl" (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4041216&postcount=67)
"Death from Above" (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4042462&postcount=70)
"Tom-Jon" (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4042639&postcount=72)
"Lord-Master of the Mecha-Gouda" (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4042749&postcount=73)
"Just here to eat brains..." (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4043672&postcount=76)
"Ilúvatar's Mouthpiece" (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4046043&postcount=84)
"Master of his Own Domain" (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4047230&postcount=86)

Shishnarfne
2008-03-12, 03:39 PM
I'll give Religion of ME the Psionicist award,
Will the Whippomancer for Arcane
Master of His Own Domain for Divine (and best double dip)

Cheese to the Phrenic Schizo of Smack (I thought Elans couldn't take Phrenic, as they already were psionic characters....) Out of many, many dairy-rich entries...

I'll give Tom-Jon the Party animal

And Gre'an Chez gets the Huh? Award

May add other votes as I get time to look at it...

SamTheCleric
2008-03-12, 03:52 PM
I'm gonna avoid voting for myself... it makes it less fun. (Though I encourage you all to vote for Jerald :P)

Awesome Arcanist - Kahn Tse Mi
Psuper Psionist - Death From Above
Zounds! A 'Zilla - Helios Dawnchaser
Huh? - Iluvatar's Mouthpiece
Party Animal - Just Here to Eat Brains...
Gouda - CaDzilla

Chronos
2008-03-13, 06:50 PM
For convenience, here are the entries sorted by the main subcategories (let me know if I've made a mistake in any of these):

Arcane:
Gre'an Che'z (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4024371&postcount=3) (phaerim/spellthief)
Will, the Whippomancer (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4024408&postcount=5) (duskblade/wizard)
Jerald, the Rainbow Warrior (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4024532&postcount=6) (wizard/bard)
Anonymous (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4028221&postcount=25) (beguiler/wizard)
Look Ma, I'm a spellcaster! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4028272&postcount=28) (whole/mess/of/things)
Life is overrated (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4029033&postcount=38) (dread necromancer/sorcerer)
Ultimate Cheese (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4030264&postcount=40) (wizard/sorcerer)
Baby Bel, Stilton Extraordanaire (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4030685&postcount=41) (wizard/sorcerer)
Kahn Tse Mi (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4032354&postcount=47) (beguiler/sorcerer)
The Ultimate Beholder Mage (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4032576&postcount=48) (wizard/beholder mage)
Cambreadth (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4035078&postcount=56) (sorcerer/warmage)
Ultimate Goth Girl (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4041216&postcount=67) (bard/hexblade)
Tom-Jon (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4042639&postcount=72) (bard/sorcerer)

Divine:
CaDzilla (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4025908&postcount=7) (cleric/druid)
Zilla, the nature's cleanser (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4025956&postcount=8) (cleric/druid)
Gloom that rides (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4026118&postcount=10) (cleric/ranger)
Debroah, protector of all living things (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4026206&postcount=12) (druid/paladin/favored soul)
Lillendra, corrupted nymph (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4030963&postcount=43) (druid/cleric)
Helios Dawnchaser (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4035158&postcount=57) (cleric/spirit shaman)
Ilúvatar's Mouthpiece (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4046043&postcount=84) (divine bard/paladin)
Master of his Own Domain (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4047230&postcount=86) (druid/archivist)

Psionic:
Religion of ME (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4024282&postcount=2) (psion/psychic warrior)
The Schizo Phrenic of Smack (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4024394&postcount=4) (psychic warrior/ardent)
Death from Above (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4042462&postcount=70) (psion/psychic artificer)
Just here to eat brains (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4043672&postcount=76) (psion/war mind)

Other:
Shadows to the Max (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4038758&postcount=66) (shadowcaster/shadowsmith)
Lord Master of the Mecha-Gouda (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4042749&postcount=73) (artificer/psychic artificer)

Chronos
2008-03-13, 07:22 PM
My votes:

Awesome Arcanist and overall Double Dipper Deluxe: Anonymous. I'm a big fan of the subtle, nobody-knows-I-exist style (ideally suited for rogues, but also works with spellcasters).

Zounds! a Zilla!: Gloom that Rides. Unlike the cleric/druid entries, he gets completely different abilities from his two sides, and makes them complement each other well.

Psuper Psionicist: Death from Above. There wasn't much to choose from here.

Party Animal: Ilúvatar's Mouthpiece. All those songs are great for buffing, and as both a bard and a paladin, he'll make an excellent face. Will the Whiplomancer is a close runner-up, but strikes me as slightly too cheesy for my taste.

Huh?: Shadows to the Max. I have no idea if it manages to make those classes effective, but the fact that he uses them at all is worthy of recognition.

Gouda: Ultimate Beholder Magus. Polymorph Any Object is cheesy. Making a build that relies on it is cheesy. Making a build that relies on it before the character can cast it emself is cheesy. But using it to turn into a Beholder, so as to be eligible to take a class designed for DMs who are tired of their adventuring group and want a slightly more colorful TPK than "rocks fall everyone dies", well, that just takes the cheesecake.

Beren One-Hand
2008-03-13, 08:32 PM
For convenience, here are the entries sorted by the main subcategories (let me know if I've made a mistake in any of these)

Personally I'd classify Ilúvitar's Mouthpiece under Other. While he does get full divine casting from divine bard, he only gets his 1st level bonus spells from his paladin classes. It was focused on collecting songs instead.

avr
2008-03-13, 09:35 PM
As I see them -

DDDeluxe: Religion of ME, because he's got an actual plan to become a god. He wins in the psuper psi subcategory also because of this.

Awesome A': A lot of competition here. I like Jerald as being hard hitting, survivable and lacking in cheese, so my vote goes there. Anonymous comes close but seems too likely to die horribly before reaching his power breaks.

Z!Z!: Iluvatars' Mouthpiece because he looks useful, fun & is inventive, especially more so than the CaDzillas.

Party Animal: Iluvatars', again. The reasons should be obvious.

Huh?: Ultimate Goth Girl. In gestalt, why would you choose Bard AND Hexblade? Pass the Silence spell, please. Ahh, relief.

Gouda: I wanted to say Lord Master of the Mecha-Gouda, because using artificers in that fashion pushes my buttons. Master of his Own Domain pushes a couple of others, but Chronos convinced me - Ultimate Beholder Mage is the best/worst mousetrap bait.

Beren One-Hand
2008-03-14, 10:50 PM
Awesome Arcanist: Kahn Tse Mi. Just love the name and the idea behind the build. As a side note, you'd be able to take Abjurent Champion one level earlier if you go with the Battle Sorcerer varient. Don't know if it will help enough, but it is a possibility.
Zounds! a Zilla!: Master of His Own Domain. Just plain cool idea here.
Psuper Psionicist: Religion of ME. Becoming a diety... what's not to like about that.
Party Animal: Life is Overrated. What party wouldn't want an army breathing down thier enemies necks... well even if they don't breathe.
Huh?: Debroah, Protector of All Things. Neat idea, deserves a mention somewhere.
Gouda: Ulitmate Beholder Mage. No contest here I think.
And finally the one we've all been waiting for...
Double Dipper Deluxe: Anonymous. Just plain cool. Good job.

SamTheCleric
2008-03-17, 08:06 AM
Voting ends today! Hurry up people!

Duke of URL
2008-03-18, 08:48 AM
WINNERS

Double Dipper Deluxe - Anonymous


Awesome Arcanist - Kahn Tse Mi

Psuper Psionist - Religion of ME (I actually won something?)

Zounds! A 'Zilla - Master Of His Own Domain

Huh? - No entry received more than one vote

Party Animal - Ilúvatar's Mouthpiece

Gouda - The Ultimate Beholder Magus

SamTheCleric
2008-03-18, 08:50 AM
Thanks for doing this, Duke. I had fun making my first gestalt entry. :smallbiggrin:

Mr. Friendly
2008-03-18, 09:12 AM
Yay! I won something! Winning cheese award is good, right? :smalltongue:

I'm participating!

Chronos
2008-03-18, 02:46 PM
Yay! I won something! Winning cheese award is good, right?Heh, how do you think I feel? I feel vaguely dirty that Master of his Own Domain won one of the best-of-category prizes. There's at least five different things in there I'd never allow in any campaign, and the build depends on all of them. I don't mind you beating me on the cheese award (heck, I voted for you), but I really wasn't trying for anything else, there.

Ganurath
2008-03-18, 02:50 PM
Huzzah! Looks like the Awesome Meter is going up.

Beren One-Hand
2008-03-18, 03:57 PM
Heh, how do you think I feel? I feel vaguely dirty that Master of his Own Domain won one of the best-of-category prizes. There's at least five different things in there I'd never allow in any campaign, and the build depends on all of them. I don't mind you beating me on the cheese award (heck, I voted for you), but I really wasn't trying for anything else, there.

Of course there is one major weakness to the proposed build that isn't listed... Most of the benefits are when he is in his own plane, so it seems likely he'll spend a good deal of time there. The time rate is great for amassing things to bring back to the material plane, but if you plan on living there you'll find that time has progessed around 3 days for every year spent on the plane - which isn't very condusive to maintaining relationships, business, and other social matters.

Coupling this with the fact that he can easily be trapped within the plane by a Transdimensional Forbiddence spell, no-one within the plane can leave and no one outside can enter. If your enemy's caster level is higher than your own, then you can't dispel the magic trapping you, and your only course for gaining XP is by killing off any followers who are trapped with you. Not a pleasent situtation.

Chronos
2008-03-18, 07:18 PM
if you plan on living there you'll find that time has progessed around 3 days for every year spent on the plane - which isn't very condusive to maintaining relationships, business, and other social matters.And the fact that the build ignores things like that is part of what makes it munchkinry.

As for the transdimensional Forbiddance, though, I had thought that transdimensional spells could only reach to planes which had a correspondence with the Material (like Shadow or Ethereal), and I don't think that Genesis planes do that. They might have a correspondence to the point on the ethereal plane where the spell was cast, but I'm not sure how findable that would be. And even if it does work, Master of his Own Domain has invested as much as he can afford at that point into boosting his CL, so it'd have to be a pretty high level caster to pull that off.