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View Full Version : For the Math Inclined, Deadly Precision?

Skjaldbakka
2008-03-06, 03:07 AM
How much does Deadly Precision actually increase your average damage with sneak attack, per die?

(deadly precision is a feat that allows you to reroll 1s (once)on sneak attack damage dice)

My guess is +.5/die.

Dhavaer
2008-03-06, 03:55 AM
Yes, 0.5 per die. Average of 1d6 is 3.5, average of 1d5+1 (effectively what 1d6 drop ones is) is 4.

Ellisande
2008-03-06, 04:00 AM
Wouldn't it be slightly less than .5, because of the possibility of rolling a 1 twice? Doing a quick (and dirty) calculation, I'm getting 3.92 as the average (or +.42/die)

Charity
2008-03-06, 04:01 AM
Yup deadly precision is right up there with toughness and dodge, well at least it isn't a prerequisite for anything eh.

Skjaldbakka
2008-03-06, 04:21 AM

Iku Rex
2008-03-06, 04:43 AM
Yup deadly precision is right up there with toughness and dodge, well at least it isn't a prerequisite for anything eh.That's not really fair - it just means it's a feat best taken at higher levels.

Dhavaer
2008-03-06, 04:52 AM
Wouldn't it be slightly less than .5, because of the possibility of rolling a 1 twice? Doing a quick (and dirty) calculation, I'm getting 3.92 as the average (or +.42/die)

Ah, right. I thought it let you reroll ones endlessly.

Skjaldbakka
2008-03-06, 05:45 AM
So at what point is it 'worth' taking?

Assuming 10d6 sneak attack, and Greater 2WF, you could get off 60d6 of sneak attack from a level 20 rogue. At +.42 dmg/die, that is an average of +25 damage from deadly precision. Compared to the average of 210 dmg from that much sneak attack, is that worth a feat?

Charity
2008-03-06, 06:14 AM
Compare it to the ability that allows you to add your rogue level to your damage (name escapes me... I'm sure Silvanos will know it)
Deadly precision is poor regardless of level by comparison.

Bag_of_Holding
2008-03-06, 06:20 AM
Compare it to the ability that allows you to add your rogue level to your damage (name escapes me... I'm sure Silvanos will know it)
Deadly precision is poor regardless of level by comparison.

Craven, from Champions of something, IIRC. :smallwink:

Charity
2008-03-06, 06:42 AM
Ta ^

it is more than twice FOUR TIMES as good as Deadly precision and doesn't require guffing around with re-rolls.
Deadly precision is long winded and half arsed, I'd avoid it personally... it smells bad.

Trouvere
2008-03-06, 07:47 AM
It's not a particularly impressive feat, but if you're late on the way to Ftr4/Rog16, it is at least better than taking Weapon Specialization!

Saph
2008-03-06, 07:53 AM
I've always thought that anything that gives you a small benefit but requires you to reroll dice isn't worth the effort.

D&D combat is already slow at high levels. Adding in the extra time to reroll and recalculate the damage on every attack you do is just a nuisance. Especially since you might have to do it multiple times a round.

It's the same reason I prefer Wands of Lesser Vigour over Wands of Cure Light Wounds. It's faster to say, "You heal 11", than to say "You heal (roll) 3 . . . then (roll) 7 . . . then . . ."

- Saph

Charity
2008-03-06, 08:05 AM
It's not a particularly impressive feat, but if you're late on the way to Ftr4/Rog16, it is at least better than taking Weapon Specialization!

Only very moderately.
9 x .42 is 3.78, and it situational, you'd be better off getting pounce or one of the feats that allows you to apply your sneak attack more often, or taking ranger levels for favoured enemy or... you know good stuff instead of manky old deadly precision. :smallyuk:

Person_Man
2008-03-06, 09:55 AM
Instead of Deadly Precision, consider Craven from Champions of Ruin. It gives you 1 extra point of damage per character level on any Sneak Attack. That's four times the benefit of Deadly Precision (assuming +1d6 Sneak Attack every other level, you get a maximum bonus of +5 damage at 20th level from 10d6 dice).

Kurald Galain
2008-03-06, 11:48 AM
I knew I had forgotten something for the Flame of Anor :smallbiggrin:

Chronos
2008-03-06, 03:52 PM
The average damage added by Deadly Precision is precisely 0.416 point per die (where the underscore indicates repetition). This is because when the ability activates, it replaces a 1 with another roll of the d6 (average 3.5), for an average gain of 2.5 points, and it kicks in one roll in 6, for a total benefit of 2.5/6.

it is more than twice FOUR TIMES as good as Deadly precision and doesn't require guffing around with re-rolls.Craven is also based on total character level, not rogue level (excellent for multiclassed rogues), and also, since it's a fixed bonus and not dice, it gets multiplied by things like critical hits (and thus incidentally combines well with Telling Blow).

Craig1f
2008-03-06, 05:05 PM
This feat would make a better reward from the DM for completing a quest, than it would a chosen feat.

I think that should be the case with a lot of feats. If you perform very well on a mission or something, you should be able to buy some of these minor feats for like 1000xp or something. This feat isn't worth a slot, but if your rogue does really awesome, then you can RP that another rogue taught him the Deadly Precision skill for 1000xp. It's better then a +1 item.

FlyMolo
2008-03-06, 07:57 PM
This feat would make a better reward from the DM for completing a quest, than it would a chosen feat.

I think that should be the case with a lot of feats. If you perform very well on a mission or something, you should be able to buy some of these minor feats for like 1000xp or something. This feat isn't worth a slot, but if your rogue does really awesome, then you can RP that another rogue taught him the Deadly Precision skill for 1000xp. It's better then a +1 item.

That's actually a good idea. Huh. Feats like Alertness could actually become part of the game.