DoW: Soulstorm

[Leon]

What do people think of the new expansion, ive been playing it for a couple of hours and i gotta say i love the Sisters quite a lot
I played the Demo and found the Dark eldar rather bland (a couple of good points)

Was disappointed that flying units were the only new thing for all factions but 2 new factions are a fill in for that - and hot diggity the IG got a good plane, not mention what the necrons got

haven't got very far into the story line as we were playing skirmish - the Inherent features are nice (Sisters are sweet starting with Forward base)

[Dragor]

Hopefully I'll be getting it this Saturday- it's released on the 7th in the UK. I play Sisters of Battle in tabletop, so I was nervous about Relic getting them right.... they look like they've done them justice though.

[Doglord]

it looks alright, but at the moment I only have the standard game and I would rather get dark crusade first.

[Blayze]

Every so often, I am reminded of various small reasons why I haven't already left England.

This is not one of those days.

[Archonic Energy]

Hopefully I'll be getting it this Saturday- it's released on the 7th in the UK.

Unless you Pre-Ordered it from Game, then you should have received it in the post today... mine's sitting at home, waiting for me to return.

[Dragor]

I didn't pre-order it :smallyuk: it's going to be a visit to the stores and hoping they have some copies.

[Theork]

I have the demo, but not the game.
Still I think the Dark Eldar are pretty good, but I really want to try the sisters of battle the most, mainly due to the angel with wings they appear to have.

Until then I'll have to do heretic burning the old fashioned way, with the Dark Angels!

[The Orange Zergling]

I got it, played a couple skirmishes, and then my brother came home and asked if he could borrow it... which I agreed to. :smallsigh:

But I'll be able to, like, actually play it in a couple days... I hope.

[Timarvay]

This one rated M like the others?

If it is, could someone tell me why, exactly?

I'm under 18 and trying to talk my parents into letting me get DoW.

[warty goblin]

This one rated M like the others?

If it is, could someone tell me why, exactly?

I'm under 18 and trying to talk my parents into letting me get DoW.

Show them this video, it should explain the M'ness of the game quite succintly. And if anything the Dark Eldar are even more brutal- their point capture animation comes to mind...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRiU2N03Rzs

[Soniku]

it looks alright, but at the moment I only have the standard game and I would rather get dark crusade first.

Well, seeing as Soulstorm is standalone and contains all the previous content with the exception of online play (You need the individual expansions for each race online) there's little reason to bother with DC first :smallsmile:

[SpikeFightwicky]

Well, seeing as Soulstorm is standalone and contains all the previous content with the exception of online play (You need the individual expansions for each race online) there's little reason to bother with DC first :smallsmile:

Unless he'd rather try the Necrons or Tau first :smallwink:

The campaign is pretty cool. I started it with Chaos, and it's quite involved. Some parts sort of reminds me of the old Dune 2 'choose your territory' interface.

I find the Dark Eldar are quite... odd (and they can't build turrets :smallfurious: ) and I had trouble 'getting into them' like I did with some of the other races, but I found the Sisters are pretty interesting. Penitence Engine FTW! They seem to be a middle point between the IG and the Space Marines (their main squads and the basic Canoness aren't world ending, but they're about on par with the Chaos Marine basic squads). Heavy infantry are really different though (they'll melta your heart).

I noticed a lot of 'balance' changes as well. For example, Chaos armory is less expensive, but upgrading the stronghold is more expensive, and Tau units and buildings have mostly changed (some units are cheaper, like the stealth suits, while some buildings/major upgrades are more expensive).

So far, I'm quite satisfied.

BTW, when are we going to finally get the 'nids?

[The Orange Zergling]

Dawn of War 2, I expect. I've heard two different reasons for why they have not included the Tyranids, 1 being that they could not find a way to include them, be accurate to their lore, and give any other race the slightest chance at victory. 2 being that there is a problem with the game engine and anything with more than 4 limbs... which makes no sense due to the Defiler, however it is not subject to being sync-killed, so I dunno.

[warty goblin]

Dawn of War 2, I expect. I've heard two different reasons for why they have not included the Tyranids, 1 being that they could not find a way to include them, be accurate to their lore, and give any other race the slightest chance at victory. 2 being that there is a problem with the game engine and anything with more than 4 limbs... which makes no sense due to the Defiler, however it is not subject to being sync-killed, so I dunno.

I'm pretty sure that the four-limbed thing is not right. Look at the Warp Spider Exarch. Sure technically he's only got four limbs, but those twin monofilament weblaunchers are basically limbs 5 and 6 (they move around and everything), and he gets sync killed just fine IIRC.

The reasons I've heard that are most convincing is that in order to do the 'nids justice you need to put a lot of them onscreen, probably more than the engine can cope with...that and doing it would turn the game into micro-managy hell.

Also 'nid resources would have work on a seriously different model, which would be a balancing nightmare (hello, Necrons...)

[Blayze]

*sigh*

You don't *need* a lot of Nids on screen at once to do them justice. Simply give their basic units incredibly fast build and reinforcement times, and make them come out at maximum models per squad (Even if you also gave them automatic reinforcement, they'd still die too quickly for it to be overpowered). That way, you don't *need* a lot of Nids at once.

It prevents the Nids from being a "Zerg and Forget" race that can simply drown their enemies in sheer numbers. It forces the Nid player to use forward bases effectively (And to expand, expand, EXPAND), attempting to minimise the time their units have to spend getting to the enemy. They don't need millions upon millions of Gaunts at any one time, because they've got millions upon millions of Gaunts throwing themselves into the enemies, one unit at a time.

'Sides, they're probably holding the Nids back until such a time as they can work out a way to make an Ordo Xenos army not just play like Space Marines with special ammo for destroying aliens (If any race is going to be added to take on the Nids in a future game or expansion, it's pretty much those guys). I, at the very least, would like *actual* Inquisition units. I was somewhat annoyed at the thought of Marines having Grey Knights, as it meant no chance of an official Daemonhunters army.

Sure, there's the Daemonhunters mod, but that's for DC and now we have SS. And now I retire to bed, to dream of past attempts at creating "Codex: Inquisition"...


Also 'nid resources would have work on a seriously different model, which would be a balancing nightmare (hello, Necrons...)

Resource One: Some fancy name for the resources they get from draining the planet dry. Probably also obtained from corpses to some extent, especially their own (Waste not, want not! Especially not with all those Nid corpses lying around from the previous attacks...).
Resource Two: Biomass or whatever it is, obtained from the corpses of their enemies, in order to enable the research of Biomorphs and more advanced units (Since most of their units seem to be the result of stealing non-Tyranid DNA in order to allow their units to adapt).


that and doing it would turn the game into micro-managy hell.

Just the one race. There's different races for different playing styles, to be honest. At least it doesn't boil down to "Amass fifteen thousand Gaunts, right-click on enemy base."

[Murongo]

The beauty of Dawn of War is that it keeps you mobile and fighting at all times because your performance in combat decides your resources. It's not a game where you can create a wall, hide behind it making sharper and sharper sticks and then come out in one big do-or-die battle *cough starcraft cough*. You engage in combat at every level of tech, tiers 1-3 and certain races excel at different tech levels. IG for example have great tier 1 and 3 but get stomped in the interim, whereas basic marines start limping at T3 and chaos have weak T1. Also turrets become less effective as you scale up, so offense becomes more viable which prevents turtling.

Every army is at least viable (eldar are definitely on the weak side) and most are solid competitors. I do wish, rather than giving marines a squad of grey knights and making sisters of battle, they had made an "inquisition" race but oh well.

[warty goblin]

My understanding was the Eldar were technically, at least in DC, the strongest army if you were god of micro, but were the hardest to use effectively. Something about extreme mobility and stealth bases (most awesome thing ever when your enemy drives their tanks into your stealthed turret farm).

I know I personally have never been any good at 'em. I like the Tau better, mostly because I have an inordinate fondness for their ranged goodies.

[Xefas]

...and chaos have weak T1.

Every army is at least viable (eldar are definitely on the weak side) and most are solid competitors.

I'm just going to butt in here and mention that there are exceptions to these rules. On small maps (Eden, Hellfire Canyon, or Abandon All Hope, for instance), Chaos are insanely powerful in T1. Their Heretics' ability to build up the initial buildings faster than anyone else makes them great for rush tactics.

Also, the Eldar simply have an aggravatingly steep learning curve. As the guy above me said, someone who can take full advantage of their mobility is going to clean up.

On topic, while I haven't gotten Soulstorm yet, I plan to in the near future. I was very disappointed about the lack of Tyranids. The Tyranid Mod, while good, is slow-going and might not even be active anymore.

[ArtifexFelicis]

I personally love Soulstorm. More of the same, but I'll be damned if it isn't executed well.

I enjoy the Sisters a lot, though I find them to be an oddly close range army. I'm a bit used to playing Tau though, so the jump might explain it. It just doesn't seem like their basic bolters have much range, and I hate heavy bolters so they're out. Course on the flip side, I think the Living Saint is my new favorite relic Unit. Way more fun then the stupid steroid using yoshi of the Tau in terms of awesomeness.

Haven't tried the Dark Eldar yet. Not a big fan of them really.

Tau are still extremely awesome. Fear the moving turtle and awesome kroot. Tau I like because, while their offense isn't the best, they are oddly awesome for defense. Breaking a Fire Warrior line is tough even at Tier 3 if you're building right, and stealth suits early in the game are fun as well.

Course, the commander is just awesome too.

[Dragor]

:smallbiggrin: Hurray! Glad you're enjoying it. Tomorrow couldn't come sooner.... *twitches maniacally*

[SpikeFightwicky]

I'm just going to butt in here and mention that there are exceptions to these rules. On small maps (Eden, Hellfire Canyon, or Abandon All Hope, for instance), Chaos are insanely powerful in T1. Their Heretics' ability to build up the initial buildings faster than anyone else makes them great for rush tactics.

Not only that, but in Soulstorm, Heretics got an HP boost and have somewhere between 500-550 HP. They love their forced labor.

Also, what's this I hear all the time about the Necrons being unbalanced? So far the computer seems unable to really capitalize on their endgame compared to the other races. I'll admit I haven't fought a human Necron player yet, though.

[Xefas]

Not only that, but in Soulstorm, Heretics got an HP boost and have somewhere between 500-550 HP. They love their forced labor.

Also, what's this I hear all the time about the Necrons being unbalanced? So far the computer seems unable to really capitalize on their endgame compared to the other races. I'll admit I haven't fought a human Necron player yet, though.

Really? Wow, I can't wait to see what else Chaos get (don't tell me! I want it to be a surprise).

Also, Necrons seem unbalanced to a lot of people because of their effectiveness against computers or players who don't micromanage a whole lot. They're an impenetrable wall of death, sure, but they have no mobility until the later tiers.

Sneak a few units into their base while they're in route to yours, and if they haven't invested heavily into turrets (which, if they did, chances are their attack force is lacking anyway), then you'll massacre their power generators before they have a chance to respond and gain a massive upper hand.

They're also very "danceable", since they're the slowest army in the game. Take a long range unit, shoot them, move back/to the side a little, shoot them again, etc, always staying out of range, and there isn't much they can do to you.

That said, once they get Tomb Spyders and their other zippy units, it's a whole different ball game. Since I generally try to take out my enemies in T1, I don't have much experience with dealing with them at this point, other than horrible screaming death. The fact that you have to destroy each Necron squad 3-4 times is too much for my resources to handle.

I have no idea if this is all still true in Soulstorm. Just my Dark Crusade experience.

[MeklorIlavator]

Also, some of the artifacts that they can get for their commander are pretty good. Resurrection orb pretty much revives an army, though its gotten better, as they have a limit on how many Necrons it can raise(I believe that you can't get back more than the total amount of squads you could control). Also, there is one(can't remember the name) that makes it impossible to make ranged attacks within a certain area. This combined with his teleport ability is pretty deadly vs the tau.

[Theork]

They're an impenetrable wall of death, sure, but they have no mobility until the later tiers.

Sneak a few units into their base while they're in route to yours, and if they haven't invested heavily into turrets (which, if they did, chances are their attack force is lacking anyway), then you'll massacre their power generators before they have a chance to respond and gain a massive upper hand.

They're also very "danceable", since they're the slowest army in the game.


Tell that to the three units of flayed ones reserved in their monolith. :smalleek:

I think that Pariahs need revising. They had too much health and moved so fast that they were a reccuring pain when they were resummoned by the PC.

[Dragor]

Played Sisters of Battle, and I have to say I was impressed, but not blown away as I thought I'd be. The unit models and voices are just right, I have no complaints there whatsoever.

They seemed to be particuarly well balanced, but take that with a pinch of salt as I didn't get enough playtime to judge HOW balanced they were. Seraphim, to me, were too fragile. With their Faith Power they were great for a short period of time, but in the end I'd much prefer to take the basic Sisters over them just for sheer morale-breaking greatness.

Guard get totally mowed down by the Sisters, and no mistake. What do Guard not like? Morale breakers. So what do they do- sit riiight next to the army with all the flamers... heh heh. :smalltongue:

Sadly I don't have enough cash to purchase the game, which is bugging me slightly. My friend has it and is drooling over the Dark Eldar, which we all agreed were slightly unbalanced in the demo. That's just our view, though, I have no idea what the general consensus on the DE is.

[Dragor]

Played Sisters of Battle, and I have to say I was impressed, but not blown away as I thought I'd be. The unit models and voices are just right, I have no complaints there whatsoever.

They seemed to be particuarly well balanced, but take that with a pinch of salt as I didn't get enough playtime to judge HOW balanced they were. Seraphim, to me, were too fragile. With their Faith Power they were great for a short period of time, but in the end I'd much prefer to take the basic Sisters over them just for sheer morale-breaking greatness.

Guard get totally mowed down by the Sisters, and no mistake. What do Guard not like? Morale breakers. So what do they do- sit riiight next to the army with all the flamers... heh heh. :smalltongue:

Sadly I don't have enough cash to purchase the game, which is bugging me slightly. My friend has it and is drooling over the Dark Eldar, which we all agreed were slightly unbalanced in the demo. That's just our view, though, I have no idea what the general consensus on the DE is.

[ArtifexFelicis]

Right, now for a quick breakdown on the Sisters by me.

First notes. They are a HEAVY ability race. You try to use them without missionaries or abilities, and you WILL lose. You will need to micromanage them at times, though it isn't too bad. Faith Points are your life blood. You need them. ALL of them. They are also super anti-morale. IG just cries when they see these ladies coming, Space Marines wet their pants, and Orks smell themselves cooking in their flamers. they are a short-medium range army. Fire Warrior will out shoot them until they turn crispy. You will need to watch that they don't dance too much with you. Of course, you must be careful. Too much flamey-shooty will let a mechy chugging IG or even Eldar or Chaos army to rip through you without a moments hesitation.

Builder Guy- Just normal, nice flavor though, and he looks pretty cool.

Regular Sisters Squad - Probably my most used piece. It's gotten to the point where I just take 4 squads, 3 missionaries and my Canoness and I assault. Enough Faith points and at Tier 4, they are UNSTOPPABLE with micromanaging. I took out nearly the entire Ork Stronghold with them on Normal. Just constantly healing, blinding, and grenading. They have a weakness with nothing for vehicles, but with a Celestian Squad that is taken care of.

Seraphim - Kinda fragile, but a very useful unit. I only build when I need to assault quick, but two squads with Krak grenades and their angel ability can usually take out an HQ if you're lucky.

Celestian Squad - I've found building just one and having it follow your regular Sisters into battle is best. Too fragile against infantry, but desperately needed to take out any tanks or Squiggoths.

Repentia - So-so really. They're the only real Melee unit that the sisters have, infantry anyway. However, they also are amazing at holding a line against others such as the Orks or the Space Marines. Even Terminators have considerable trouble with the nearly naked, masochistic girls, especially with the Missionary to help out.

Missionary - An awesome helping unit. Their abilities, such as the Healing one, or the rather fun "Battle Sisters suddenly turn anti-everything" one are awesome. Alright as well, though perhaps a bit fragile.

Canoness - Just badass. I like her little angel summoning thing, and the blinder basically cripples Tau or IG. When she starts getting Wargear, then oh boy! Though, Wargear for other commanders might be better, she is defenitly not a slouch. I haven't gotten her final wargear yet though, so I'll need to revise this later.

Confessor - Never liked him much. a bit TOO micromangey for me. He has some nice abilities, but I prefer to save the resources and go for a missionary. In the right hands, I can see him wreck havoc, but he's a bit too sub-par for me.

Rhino - An alright transport. Kinda small, it only holds two squads, or one Celestian Squad. But it also is really good for anti-infantry, and when upgraded, can destroy morale whilst boosting the Sisters. I don't use it much, but it is a good unit.

Immolator - "Behold, the IMMOLATOR!" Awesome for that quote, and the fact it's an excellent, if somewhat hefty, vehicle. Uses 3 squad point thingies, but I highly prefer it to Celestian Squads to take out building and stuff. Also very anti-infantry, but not very good for range.

Artillary - I've never liked artiliary. This tank is called the Exorcist, and it's a pipe organ. While that seems awesome, I really don't like it much.

Penitent Engine - Like a super, bullet fast, walker that you can sadly only have two of. Course, two of these can destroy an entire base in about 3 minutes unguarded, and they're faster then Jump infantry squads. They are a glass engine though, and sadly they can be killed fairly quickly. Course, the sheer mayhem they wreck is MORE than worth it. Especially since they will destroy quite a bite before kicking the mortal coil.

The Living Saint - Awesome. Just awesome. Lots of health, damage, jumping. She screams cool things in battle and is about as squishy as adamantium. She has a devastating, if slow, special ability, and she'll resurrect when they finally kill her. I've actually just rushed her through an entire Stronghold base, do a couple shots to the HQ, die, then destroy the HQ simply because of how tough she is. An awesome relic Unit, though I don't know how well she would stand against the others, she is perfect for the Sisters of Battle.

In Short, they rock. They can tailor their army to anything that can be thrown at them, and ain't nuttin can stop that. Of course, you must be careful. Always keeping somewhat rounded. All Battle Sisters with FIRE will get killed. Acareful hand and the Emperor's Light shall lead you to victory.

[Sophistemon]

I have purchased Soulstorm and, for the most part, I enjoy it. I will say, though, that is does have several bugs and glitches, some game-breaking, that need to be ironed out by a patch. These include a great deal of graphical errors and one glitch that makes the Sisters of Battle all but unbeatable in multiplayer.

I would suggest that those of you that are considering the purchase of Soulstorm wait until the release of a patch that fixes these problems, at which point the cost of the game with have surely lowered.

Not a bad game/expansion, just one that needs a (lot) more work on Relic's part to finish it up.

[Xefas]

Well, my hopes were shattered recently. I won't be getting Soulstorm for a while yet. However, I downloaded the demo today to cheer me up a bit.

And I really really don't like the Dark Eldar.

On the one hand, it might just be the whole "new race" thing and not knowing how to manage them well, but regardless, whether I know how to handle them or not, I hate the way they handle. I never knew just how much of a hulking badass brute a Chaos Cultist was until I had 6 squads of fully reinforced and upgraded warriors complete with squad leader get mowed down with ease by a couple of the un-reinforced deep strike marine squads in the demo mission.

Their flimsiness has given me newfound respect for the Cultist who, while the most fragile of chaos units, could totally gut check any pansy Dark Elf loser into a wall while simultaneously crushing an empty melta bomb canister on his forehead and grunting.

That's my first impression, anyway.

As for flavor, I thought I would really like them. I thought "Hey, more blatantly evil guys. Another dark stain on the bleak grey abyss that is Warhammer morality. Them and Chaos are totally gonna hook up and be drinking buddies or something." And...no. I really really hate them.

They're a kind of evil I don't like. I like the Khorne Berserker "All problems can be solved by ripping people in half in a bloodthirsty rage" evil. I like the "Coerce my enemy into damning themselves." evil of the Chaos Sorcerer. I like the "I am an unstoppable juggernaut of death and the fact that I am powerful means that I am correct in all things." evil of Chaos Lords, Daemon Princes, etc. But Dark Elves aren't any of those things. They the "I'm gonna sneak in, club this guy over the head, bring him back to my place, and then spend 8 hours stabbing him the naughty bits with razor blades and laughing." It's the difference between being a magnificent bastard (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MagnificentBastard) and...just a bastard.

Imagine if Sauron's evil scheme wasn't "Take Over the World", but instead was "Kidnap a random guy and stab him in the junk and laugh". Imagine if Light's plan wasn't "Purify the World by Killing the Sinners" but was instead "Kidnap a random guy and stab him in the junk and laugh". Imagine if Satan wasn't known for "I'm totally better than God, screw him, the universe belongs to me!" but instead planning to kidnap a random guy, stab him in the junk, and laugh.

That's just what I got from these guys...and it disappointed me. Petty, spiteful, obnoxious drama queens who want so bad to be monsters, but just end up being jerks.

[Blayze]

When I heard "There is mischief to be done!" the first time in the demo, I knew that was true. I mean... mischief? Words almost failed me. Almost.

"What the hell?"

[Hunter Noventa]

Mmm, everything does sound rather lovely. I'm going to have to pick this up methinks.

[Dragor]

When I heard "There is mischief to be done!" the first time in the demo, I knew that was true. I mean... mischief? Words almost failed me. Almost.

"What the hell?"

Totally agree with you Blayze. I was watching my friend playing at the time. He selected the Warrior Squad. "There is mischief to be done!"

Me: "They sound more like troublesome schoolboys then terror-invoking servants of Slaanesh."

And I also said something in the lines of Xefas:

"They're just utter bastards."

I don't like the way they handle, really. It felt like an uphill struggle for the most part to keep myself in check. Some units just become obsolete and some just seem plain useless, but cool (Reaver Jetbike, for instance).

Sisters of Battle I'm going through the campaign with, and being a fan of their tabletop version, I'm happy with the transition they've made. The voices are fine, and the animations are good. They're a bit flimsy at first, but I expected as much.

The Living Saint is definately my favourite unit. Period.

[Eldpollard]

I'm enjoying soulstorm. Simple reason. Lots and lots of fire. Long ranged burning. It's all fun.

[Blayze]

The voices are fine, and the animations are good.

Just wait until you hear Frenchy McBloodRaven. I'm positive that either something was wrong with his microphone. His voice just sounds... off.

[Theork]

I agree. I can't quite place his accent, it's either a french pirate or maybe something more...:smalltongue:

[Xefas]

Gah! :smalleek:

I uninstalled the Soulstorm demo and now I get all these "$123456 no range" errors in place of a bunch of the skirmish map names and all the unit tooltip info.

Anyone have a similar problem, and/or know of some way to fix it short of uninstalling and reinstalling everything? (Because I really don't wanna have to do that :smallfrown: )

[Dragor]

Just wait until you hear Frenchy McBloodRaven. I'm positive that either something was wrong with his microphone. His voice just sounds... off.

I make a habit of staying riiight away from Space Marines.

[Xefas]

Well, I finally got Soulstorm (much earlier than I expected in light of the recent setback), and the first thing I thought of when the Sisters charged into battle was:

Space Marines -> Sisters pick-up lines
"I was just about to go skinny-dipping in the blood of my foes. Wanna join me?"
"I've got some religious texts and a bottle of military-grade nutrient paste back at my place..."
"I'll show you my Black Carapace if you show me yours."
"Are you tired? Because you've been running through my mind, purging the unclean all night, baby."
"I think the Ecclesiarchy is missing a Saint, because you look positively divine."
"Oops, your tag's showing. It says 'Made in the cleansing flames of the Emperor's forge on Titan.' Oh, wait..."
"Let's knock pauldrons, baby cakes."
"Our children would have my healthy xenophobia, and your rippling biceps."

[Talkkno]

"I'll show you my Black Carapace if you show me yours."



Sisters of Battle don't go threw the genetic augmentation the Space Marines do for biological reasons. So they don't have the black carapace to augment their power armor.

[warty goblin]

I'm rather on the fence about this one. On the one hand I love DoW immensely. On the other hand I can't say as the SS demo impressed me at all- it felt like more of the same. It's a very good same, but fundamentally I can't help but feel that Dark Crusade fills my Heretic Purging and Horrible Demon unleashing needs just fine. I'm sure the game is good, and that I'd enjoy playing it if I got it, the question is simply whether or not buying it is an effective maximization of my entertainment budget, which I'm not sure it is. That and I have such a massive pile of games I've not exhausted yet it's a little hard to drum up the enthusiasm for an expansion to a game I played darn near to death already.

This in no small way makes me sad, as like I said, I love DoW and consider it a masterpiece of the early 00's strategy gaming, and I'd love for this expansion to have some sort of truly new system or something that would really excite me. I just don't see it there.

[Xefas]

Sisters of Battle don't go threw the genetic augmentation the Space Marines do for biological reasons. So they don't have the black carapace to augment their power armor.

Wha? :smalleek:

I thought it was required just to *use* the power armor. Well...umm...well fine!

Though, now that I think about it, if you know some about the WH40k lore, can I ask a few questions? I wikied and googled both of these and got nothing...

How do they make Living Saints?

And why would the Sisters of Battle fight with the Space Marines? I know how easy it is to get an Imperial Guard versus SM or SoB battle going, but it seems like a different thing altogether to accuse the Space Marines of heresy. I mean, accusing one guy, sure...but "All the Blood Ravens are evil, DIE DIE DIE" appears to be more than a stretch to me.

It isn't too hard to tell if a Space Marine has fallen to Chaos. If they're ten thousand years old and/or randomly begin shouting at themselves...

[Talkkno]

How do they make Living Saints?
"I would like to note first that the wings you see in DOW:Soulstorm are not common or universal fixtures of Living Saints- they are specific to a few Living Saints who may have developed them as a result of either the blessings of the Emperor (in the cases of those Living Saints whom actually served as vessels for the energies of the Emperor, whether it be through impossible physical mutation or a manifestation of sheer psychic will and strength- any energy that is drawn from the Emperor or any other psychic being will itself be psychic energy) or as a result of external devices or artificial augmentation. While the image of the power-armored Living Saint gliding across the battlefield on angelic wings is a fairly popular one due to the stereotypes and emotions it provokes, it is by no means a reflection of the properties or capabilities of "Living Saints" in general, whom range from exceptional men and women whose accomplishments and devotion to the Emperor have earned them the title from the Ecclesiarchy and the Inquisition to those who have served as vessels for the Emperor's will and guidance and have been declared as such through the great deeds they have performed in His Name with His strength. Their precise capabilities are highly variable, ranging from nothing more than that of a normal human to supernaturally potent abilities of persuasion and charisma, enormous psychic power, incredible martial and strategic ability, or a variety of attributes that combine or are outside of the above, all depending on the Emperor's needs and desires in regards to those serving as vessels for His energies as well as whether they have been blessed with anything more than direct or indirect guidance, if that.

Those who are imbued with the Emperor's energies (such as so called "Living Saints" as you refer to them, though they vary very wildly from what is depicted in game.) serve and behave as the Champions of the Emperor, fulfilling His great goals and contributing vastly to the integrity, stability, prosperity, or strength of the Imperium by precipitating major invasions, repelling pernicious marauders, suppressing rebellion or restoring/introducing faith on a wide scale, etc.- as the Emperor perceives or forsees the need for such beings in regards to the Imperium's welfare or His plans, he creates such entities from those of his servants deemed suitable. Enormous devotion beforehand is not a prerequisite for the Emperor's intervention in such a manner- merely being at the right place in the right time, though faith can certainly help. Living Saints may come from any walk of life- soldiers, psykers, politicians, administrators, farmers, colonists, priests, though those declared Saints without any evidence of miraculous abilities during their lifetimes often come from the highest or most prominent positions within the Imperium (due to the nature of recognition and the great deeds required for it), and those who do manifest seemingly divine attributes and exercise them enough to be recognized end up becoming extremely renowned and influential figures as a result anyway. Actually being declared a Living Saint requires a joint congress and canonisation declaration by the Inquisition and the Ecclesiarchy, with both organizations often investigating and evaluating the subject exhaustively before making their final decision (as it is all too often a fraud, lunatic, or deviant blasphemously masquerading as a servant of the Emperor), and canonization in general typically requires considerable debate and assessment."


And why would the Sisters of Battle fight with the Space Marines? I know how easy it is to get an Imperial Guard versus SM or SoB battle going, but it seems like a different thing altogether to accuse the Space Marines of heresy. I mean, accusing one guy, sure...but "All the Blood Ravens are evil, DIE DIE DIE" appears to be more than a stretch to me.

It isn't too hard to tell if a Space Marine has fallen to Chaos. If they're ten thousand years old and/or randomly begin shouting at themselves...
I have no idea, i find it a tad unrealistic for even the largest Sortious order to consider capable of subduing a solar system full of opponents on there own.

[Blayze]

I thought it was required just to *use* the power armor. Well...umm...well fine!

As far as I'm aware, it's essential in order to fully utilise a suit of Power Armour or Terminator Armour. However, Inquisitors and Inquisitor Lords (According to my copy of Codex: Daemonhunters) can be given both Power Armour and Terminator Armour, despite being *just* humans.

In other words, the Black Carapace is not essential in order to wear or use Power Armour, just to use it fully (And, I think, interface with it).

[Werewindlefr]

They have a weakness with nothing for vehicles, but with a Celestian Squad that is taken care of.
Missionaries have a faith ability that fixes this by making them efficient against all units, if I recall correctly.

I really like the sisters of battle (some of the worst fanatics of the empire, after all :p). The penitent engine looks awesome, and I like their obsession with flamethrowers.

[Revlid]

As far as I'm aware, it's essential in order to fully utilise a suit of Power Armour or Terminator Armour. However, Inquisitors and Inquisitor Lords (According to my copy of Codex: Daemonhunters) can be given both Power Armour and Terminator Armour, despite being *just* humans.

In other words, the Black Carapace is not essential in order to wear or use Power Armour, just to use it fully (And, I think, interface with it).

Ordinary humans can use specially-made Power Armour by wearing a skin-tight suit that emulates the effect of the Black Carapace. It's not as good as Space Marine Power Armour, but then, what is?

[Jibar]

Right.
Is it worth picking this up right now, or waiting for a patch to come out?
Consider that I absolutely love Dawn of War in all forms, and I especially love the Imperium of Man, whose conquest of the heretic aliens is just and most righteous. We shall purge the unclean.

[Krrth]

You may want to wait for the patch. I've noticed some problems with the AI, especially with the pathing and the notice of enemies. I've lost squads when they didn't notice someone was shooting them....

[Blayze]

Is it worth picking this up right now, or waiting for a patch to come out?

Wait for the patch. At the moment, we've got half a game, and it appears to have been the half-assed half, too.

[Xefas]

Right.
Is it worth picking this up right now, or waiting for a patch to come out?
Consider that I absolutely love Dawn of War in all forms, and I especially love the Imperium of Man, whose conquest of the heretic aliens is just and most righteous. We shall purge the unclean.

I say pick it up now and start playing if you enjoyed the Kronus campaign. This one is bigger and with a little more variety with the introduction of Capture the Area type campaign maps. Also, they removed most of the 2on1 fights (I'm 3/4ths the way done with the campaign and have fought...1, maybe 2) and the bit where you keep everything you previously built in the area.

I didn't like that part, considering the fight wasn't worth playing out when you start in Tier 3 with 10 strategic points and 16 generators and the enemy starts with a builder and an HQ, so I'm glad they got rid of it.

Also, everyone starts out with one of those 'special powers' (like the 'move two spaces' one in the last game), and you only get more special powers by destroying the race and taking it from them.

Plus! Chaos Heretics have 560hp now! Do you know what this means?! I can have my entire base up and running, churning out legions of bloodthirsty traitors before the Imperial Marines even have their pantyhose on.

But...if you only play for the multiplayer, then...I'd wait for a patch.

[Hunter Noventa]

I just picked it up today...and the disc was bad.:smallfurious:

This is the second time I've had something like this happen, during installation I get a stupid checksum error, had the same issue with C+C3. probably has somethign to do with this weird UDF file system on the disc.

Anyway, I can't wait to exchange it and try again.

[Elliot Kane]

Having finished the single player game with the Sisters, I must admit I really like them. They're tremendously versatile, and the Penitent Engine has to be the best 'Mech Warrior' unit in the game. The Living Saint rules, too.

Their Forward Base ability is absolutely the best of the 'special powers' IMO, allowing them to move really fast right from the start and catch most of the opposition napping.

Whether the Sisters would be as good without that, I cannot say. It would certainly take them far longer to develop.

Overall, I'd say that the usefulness of the various special powers is highly variable, with the Tau cannon not even working (And I don't think the Marine drop pod power does, either - there's no tab for it anywhere) and the Ork garrison power and Necron reanimation seeming rather pointless.

Despite this and the loss of carefully built bases (Which I hate) I have to admit I do really enjoy Soulstorm. There's just something about being able to take Gorgutz on a whole new rampage or catching up with my old friends the Blood Ravens... :D

And I really love the Sisters. I really do.

[Xefas]

So, I did an interesting experiment yesterday.

When Dark Crusade came out, to create a foundation for my multiplayer strategy, I played a series of matches on various maps with various armies 1on1 against an Insane Necron and Insane Tau computer, then saved the replay and watched how they stomped the crap out of me (of course, I didn't use Chaos, since I can take an Insane 1on1 with Chaos 'easily', and I wanted to lose).

Yesterday, I tried the same thing out with an Insane Dark Eldar. Except that, I beat them every time without trying very hard. Even when I used races I hadn't used in months nor ever focused on learning (i.e. Orks and Eldar).

This further reinforces my hatred of Dark Eldar. Maybe a balancing patch will be released so I can stop hating them for sucking and only have to hate them for fluff and personality.

I knew something was wrong when I took out the Dark Eldar stronghold as my fifth-ish conquest in the campaign.

Purge the Weak!

[Blayze]

Dark Eldar have a certain bug related to their base, and I think it's linked to the way their buildings are built (Automatically). I've read reports of them spamming buildings, which would make sense if the AI assigns new building plans to idle builders based on which buildings are finished.

In other words: The builders from other races won't do this, because they have to be busy with building something. The Dark Eldar builders are idle all the time, except when travelling and starting the process off.

Perhaps your Dark Eldar enemy spammed so many buildings that they had no resources left for troops.

[Xefas]

Dark Eldar have a certain bug related to their base, and I think it's linked to the way their buildings are built (Automatically). I've read reports of them spamming buildings, which would make sense if the AI assigns new building plans to idle builders based on which buildings are finished.

In other words: The builders from other races won't do this, because they have to be busy with building something. The Dark Eldar builders are idle all the time, except when travelling and starting the process off.

Perhaps your Dark Eldar enemy spammed so many buildings that they had no resources left for troops.

Well, that could explain it, I suppose. I figured it was just a tactic of theirs, considering I've seen the Harder or Insane Eldar AI spam Support Portals and unleash dread legions of Wraithlords all at once. But, generally, when I got to their base in tier 1, they would have about 3 of their infantry making buildings (Halls of Blood?) and maybe 1 or 2 totally unreinforced Warrior squads.

However, I've not seen this problem in the campaign mode. There, I've seen them mostly just try to tie me up until they can spam Wych squads (and the occasional Warp Beast squad). Maybe the AIs work differently for different modes?

Still, either way, I've found them depressingly weak when I use them. Maybe I'm not doing it right? Is there some way to play that involves winning without going anywhere near any opposing units or buildings? Because, I swear I've seen a Scourge Squad get disemboweled by a Power Generator glaring at them angrily. Though, to be fair, their morale had just been broken by a Skull Probe floating by several meters away.

[Wraith]

Although I have not yet played Soulstorm (it's one in a long list of things I intend to buy in the near future...), I have been following problems with the Dark Eldar in one or two other places as well as GitP, and I have begun to wonder if this is a deliberate reflection - possibly even criticism - of their Table Top counterparts.

Dark Eldar are, in Games Workshop, widely reknown as being much unloved by the developers and subsequently have an out of date Codex and relatively few models available. A new Codex and "a batch of new miniatures" are apparently in the works for sometime in 2008, however, and it'd be an interesting ploy to have a DoW patch along at the same time as the new Models, readdressing balance on both fronts as a way of advertising both to customers?

Another, possibly more likely possibility, is that the DoW developers were not wanting to put a LOT of effort into balancing an Army that is due to undergo a lot of canonical changes in the near future, and released Soulstorm to appease the ravenous masses with the intention of 'finishing' it only when they were allowed to release the new units as they arrived in the Tabletop game.

A shrewd and maybe even slightl;y cruel interpretation, but an exciting one I think.