Need help with creating a necromancer

[Raltar]

So, I have this awesome concept for a necrophiliac necromancer and I was wondering what would be the best way to go about it. I was looking at the Dread Necromancer and it seems cool and all...but would playing a specialist wizard be best?

EDIT:

Consider all WotC source books in.

[kamikasei]

a) Be a necromancer. Of some sort. There are plenty of ways to do this.
b) Take lichloved as a feat.

That's... that's pretty much all there is as far as mechanically representing your character.

edit: Looking again I see you do actually ask for straight-up "how to be a necromancer" advice. In that case:
- clerics are better than wizards.
- true necromancer is a trap.
- dread necromancer is not the best, but is a good way to have a shambling undead horde at your beck and call, so long as you can be bothered with the bookkeeping for that.

[Kurald Galain]

Arcane or divine? Or both?

[BRC]

Ive always found it odd that even though the classic necromancer is a wizard, the DnD necromancer (Core anyway) is a cleric, because Wizard's can't control undead the way clerics can. But then again for NPC's you none of that really matters.

[Raltar]

Arcane or divine? Or both?



I'd say arcane...because I like the fluff behind arcane magic more than divine.

[Talya]

So, I have this awesome concept for a necrophiliac necromancer

...I know from our other message board forum you've had bad luck with women, Raltar, but is this really the answer? :)

With the exception of vampires, I despise undead...and have never once tried to play a character that dabbled in that field.

How's the Dread Necromancer class?

[BRC]

Woah, Just actually read the opening post. Yeah, Cliched and disturbing. Why not go for somthing slightly more original.

[Collin152]

I'd recommend beign a cleric.
Or maybe go into Ur Priest.
Arcane casters really don't make good necromancers.
Maybe you can refuff the cleric for this purpose.
Talk to your DM.

[Dode]

- Book of Erotic Fantasy
- Lichloved feat
- FATAL gaming license.

[GammaPaladin]

If you're not actually worrying about being incredibly powerful, and you want to be a "classic" necromancer, Dread Necromancer really isn't bad.

You have to decide whether you want to go Necropolitan or not... It's a big advantage but you have to get True Ressurected at level 20 so that you can acquire the Lich template (Unless your DM is nice and rules sensibly that that restriction is dumb, and kills it with Rule Zero).

You should take Leadership for a couple of cleric cohorts, or a melee specialist... and Undead Leadership, to further expand your host of undead.

Get yourself the Dread Warrior spell from Unapproachable East so that you can raise undead with all the abilities of their former living self. That way if one of your cohorts dies... Well, you can keep him around.

After that... World conquest.

[Squash Monster]

What do you want to be? (Multiple choice)
A) A necromancer: a person who uses dark energies to drain the life energy from his victims and inspires terror in his foes. (makes his opponents suck)
B) A necromancer: a person who uses dark energies to create an elite squad of skeletal monsters to beat his opponents' heads in.
C) A necromancer. Uh... dead things!

If you answered A, you want to be a wizard. Take focused specialist in necromancy: drop evocation, enchantment, and either illusion or abjuration (dropping abjuration is a better choice overall, but some people find it scary). You'll have some really awesome no-save ray spells, so load up on split ray, twin spell, empower, and maximize, and take arcane thesis in enervation. Incantatrix is perfect for this, for the easy metamagic. Don't forget your fear spells, they're great.

If you answered B, be a cleric. Max out your rebuke undead, make good use of desecrate, and find really big monsters to turn into skeletons.

If you answered C, be a dread necromancer. Enjoy?

[Raltar]

...I know from our other message board forum you've had bad luck with women, Raltar, but is this really the answer? :)


Yes...yes it is.

Anyway, thanks for the advice in the thread. I'll probably go with Dread Necromancer just for the fluff. It didn't really seem all powerful, but it still seems fun. Plus, I can maybe start my own cult of undead orgies or something...my cha score is going to be through the roof.

[Bosaxon]

Anyway, thanks for the advice in the thread. I'll probably go with Dread Necromancer just for the fluff. It didn't really seem all powerful, but it still seems fun. Plus, I can maybe start my own cult of undead orgies or something...my cha score is going to be through the roof.

I'm playing almost the exact same concept with a gestalt Fighter/Occult Slayer//Dread Necromancer. When he isn't trying to establish his own necropolis out of the metropolis his guild resides in, he's causing general chaos with one man raids on military bases and assassinating nobles while appearing as death on a skeletal horse. He always has time for the ladies, however, especially a drow ghost he recently relocated..

Fluffwise, you made a really good choice. There are just some aspects of the DN that a cleric or wizard can't recreate, even if they don't get desicrate and animate dead is a 4th level spell for them. Take tomb-tainted soul as early as possible. Free healing for life!!!

[GammaPaladin]

What do you want to be? (Multiple choice)
A) A necromancer: a person who uses dark energies to drain the life energy from his victims and inspires terror in his foes. (makes his opponents suck)
B) A necromancer: a person who uses dark energies to create an elite squad of skeletal monsters to beat his opponents' heads in.
C) A necromancer. Uh... dead things!

If you answered A, you want to be a wizard. Take focused specialist in necromancy: drop evocation, enchantment, and either illusion or abjuration (dropping abjuration is a better choice overall, but some people find it scary). You'll have some really awesome no-save ray spells, so load up on split ray, twin spell, empower, and maximize, and take arcane thesis in enervation. Incantatrix is perfect for this, for the easy metamagic. Don't forget your fear spells, they're great.

If you answered B, be a cleric. Max out your rebuke undead, make good use of desecrate, and find really big monsters to turn into skeletons.

If you answered C, be a dread necromancer. Enjoy?
The Dread Necromancer actually fulfills B better. He gets more HD worth of controlled undead than the Cleric, and he can rebuke too.

You can use his Advanced Learning to pick up Dread Warrior, and animate undead with class levels.

Is the cleric a stronger caster with more utility? Yes. Can the cleric command as large an army of undead? No.

To me, the archetypical necromancer is the lord of an army of undead. Period. Therefore the Dread Necromancer does fill this niche nicely. And it's not weak, it's just not as stupidly overpowered as a Cleric or Wizard.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

True Necromancer(Libris Mortis) is a Mystic Theurge-style PrC that works well with a Precocious Apprentice Sorcerer, and it's a 14-level PrC, so it's good long-term.

[AslanCross]

D: Necrophilia.

Anyway, I agree that the cleric is better than a Wizard as a necromancer.
I suggest the Corpsecrafter feat tree from Libris Mortis. It gives you ways of boosting the undead you summon.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

D: Necrophilia.Is that any worse than any of a dozen fetishes that people roleplay? I know a Necro IRL and she's no different from any of the other freaks and psychotics that make up my circle of friends.

[Bag_of_Holding]

Try Dread Necromancer/Pale Master. PM allows you to animate zombies without limit (10th level abilitiy; save-or-die-and-rise-as-zombie-under-yer-command based on Cha), as well as giving you a free undead cohort at level 9. Dread Necromancer 8th level, coupled with its Rebuke Undead and PM's unlimited zombie works, you'll be a force to be reckoned with.

Fluffwise, PM's arm replacement specifically says that "you give into your horrible necrophilic urge and replace your arm with that of an undead'.

I hope it helps. :smalltongue:

[Collin152]

Is that any worse than any of a dozen fetishes that people roleplay? I know a Necro IRL and she's no different from any of the other freaks and psychotics that make up my circle of friends.

It's just that in DnD, the dead can make advances on you, and you usually lose levels for getting it on with them (see Vampires, Wights).
Also, necrophilia is considered worse because anything involving the dead is always in a bad light.
Note that most necromancy spells are not evil, but you rarely see a good necromancer that isn't intentionally circumventing the whole "necromancy is evil" schtic.

[Bag_of_Holding]

It's just that in DnD, the dead can make advances on you, and you usually lose levels for getting it on with them (see Vampires, Wights).
Also, necrophilia is considered worse because anything involving the dead is always in a bad light.
Note that most necromancy spells are not evil, but you rarely see a good necromancer that isn't intentionally circumventing the whole "necromancy is evil" schtic.


Heck, even Mark of Justice is Necromancy! Sapphire Guards practise Necromancy! Aaaargh :smalleek:

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Note that most necromancy spells are not evil, but you rarely see a good necromancer that isn't intentionally circumventing the whole "necromancy is evil" schtic.I stat out characters and bckgrounds just for the fun of it, and I'm currently working on a Necro vaguely similar to Tsukiko in the "Undead deserve love from their maker" thing, but more similar to the old lady with the dolls from Queen of Wands. I just have to find a way to create large numbers of intelligent undead with little effort.

Wether or not that's going to be evil I'm still not sure on, but it'll be fun. :smallsmile:

[SurlySeraph]

True Necromancer(Libris Mortis) is a Mystic Theurge-style PrC that works well with a Precocious Apprentice Sorcerer, and it's a 14-level PrC, so it's good long-term.

http://photo.gangus.com/d/26788-2/ackbar.jpg



Top Ten Reasons True Necromancers Are Bad

1. At 14th level, you are five caster levels behind in both classes, so if the party Fighter took Leadership, and his cohort got Leadership, he’d actually be bringing more Necromancy to the table than you. As a fighter.
2. You have to take the Death Domain as a Necromancer Cleric, which is a waste of a Domain Slot when you are trying to be good at Necromancy.
3. In the early levels, you postpone your access to Animate Dead by 4 levels.
4. At 8th level a True Necromancer can create, but not control Ghouls. A Cleric at that level can control but not create Ghouls. Guess which is better? At 11th level, the True Necromancer gets the ability to control Ghouls, and the Cleric gets the ability to create them, so there’s no point at which this is advantageous.
5. The only unique ability of the True Necromancer class is unimpressive. Desecrate is a great spell, but it’s also a second level spell.
6. True Necromancers eventually get a bonus to Rebuking – at 17th level they have a +1 bonus to their Rebuking level. But at 7th level they have a 3 level penalty to their Rebuking level. So at low levels when rebuking is good they can’t use it, and at high levels when Rebuking doesn’t matter they don’t care.
7. True Necromancers are always going to have underwhelming Save DCs. Between MAD and the fact that they are often forced to use spells that are 3 spell levels lower than what the single-classed casters can use, they’re going to be out enough Save DC that it shows. A lot.
8. As a True Necromancer you have all the disadvantages of both a Cleric (the gods can take away all your spellcasting at any time), and a Wizard (you have Arcane Spell Failure, preventing you from wearing good armor). Also, your BAB and HPs stink when compared to a Cleric.
9. Control pools from Animate Dead actually don’t accumulate between your two classes. It’ right in the spell, if you cast the spell it considers all undead you control from all castings of Animate Dead, not just your Arcane or just your Divine castings of the spell. Some people say differently, and some even quote CustServ, but when was the last time you won an argument with your DM using the line "some guy on a board said that CustServ told him....."?
10. There is almost no synergy between Cleric and Wizard Necromancy. Any synergy you desperately want to find could be replicated by just taking the Apprentice feat at first level and having some Use Magic Device. Get yourself a couple of Wizard Scrolls or something. It’s a better buy than setting 5 caster levels on fire. Smart cookies can even get the right spell effects off monsters for free, no less.

[GammaPaladin]

Try Dread Necromancer/Pale Master. PM allows you to animate zombies without limit (10th level abilitiy; save-or-die-and-rise-as-zombie-under-yer-command based on Cha), as well as giving you a free undead cohort at level 9.
The unded cohort is nice, but in theory the rest of it can be attained through Dread Necromancer alone. Animate Dread Warrior has no explicit limit to the number of undead created by it that you can control at any given time. Yes, you can have unlimited numbers of undead with PC classes. Clerics to heal you/reanimate you, wizards to give you artillery, warblades to be your shock troopers. The world is your oyster.

And the Fell Animate feat allows you to use any necromancy spell to create undead, just nuke, and if you kill them, they rise.

Very easy ;)

[Nohwl]

what books are dread necromancer and pale master in?

[AslanCross]

what books are dread necromancer and pale master in?

Dread Necro is in Heroes of Horror, while Pale Master is in Libris Mortis.

[Nohwl]

thank you.

[osyluth]

Make him Clang Killitchy. "Animate Dead Barbershop Quartet!"
"brains."

[shadeofblack]

Make him Clang Killitchy. "Animate Dead Barbershop Quartet!"
"brains."

braaaaaaaaaaaains...
braaaaaaaaaaaaaains....
braaaaaaaaaaaaaaaains...
braaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaains!!!