Worst Possible Gestalt

[homestar3.14]

I challenge anyone to come up with a worse gestalt build than a half-elf samurai 20//truenamer 20. Dual 20's are preferred, but others are welcome.

[Azerian Kelimon]

Human Samurai//Monk, 20 in both. You get the best race, and GESTALT, and you STILL get double multiplier to suckitude.

[AlterForm]

Commoner20//Samurai20 ?

[homestar3.14]

I didn't intend commoner to be an option, but that is a pretty bad build.

[Ganurath]

Commoner 20 // Aristocrat 20

Thanks to Puss in Boots, you can finally get that synergy bonus to Survival without crossclassing!

[The Rose Dragon]

Commoner 1 / Samurai 1.

Anything you can suck at, he can suck at better.

What? You never gave a level limit.

[homestar3.14]

Enough with the commoner and NPC classes.

[CASTLEMIKE]

+3 LA Half Dragon Half Orc

Alternating Commoner -7, Expert -7, Adept-6// Magewright -4, Master Investigator -5, Dragon Marked Heir - 5, Half Dragon -3, Extreme Explorer -3

Half Dragon Half Orc

Wizard -1, Druid -1, Half Dragon -3, Dragon Marked Heir -5, Master Investigator -5, Zhentarim Spy-5// Alternating monk -5, Samauri - 5, Wilder -5, Sorcerer-5

[The Rose Dragon]

Enough with the commoner and NPC classes.

Alright. Samurai 1 / Bard 1.

[Azerian Kelimon]

Sorry, but bard is one fo the most powerful classes out there. Diplomancer and fascinate.

[homestar3.14]

+3 LA Half Dragon Half Orc

Alternating Commoner -7, Expert -7, Adept-6// Magewright -4, Master Investigator -5, Dragon Marked Heir - 5, Half Dragon -3, Extreme Explorer -3

Huh!? I haven't even heard of most of the right side of that build. It sounds really bad, though.

[FlyMolo]

Umm, lesee. A race with mucho wis penalty, like Orc.

monk/ranger.

I always hated rangers. Illogically and for no reason. Their main class feature is nearly always useless, because you never know what you're going to be fighting.

Unless you're in a REALLY focused campaign.

[homestar3.14]

Umm, lesee. A race with mucho wis penalty, like Orc.

monk/ranger.

I always hated rangers. Illogically and for no reason. Their main class feature is nearly always useless, because you never know what you're going to be fighting.

Unless you're in a REALLY focused campaign.

To me, Half casting + animal companion + 2WF + Flurry of Blows = decent.
That's why I mentioned Truenamer: Great effects that are near impossible to use.

[AmberVael]

Samurai 20//Ex-Paladin 20

Hey! You're now a level 20 samurai. Aren't you proud? :smalltongue:
Oh, and you're Earth Kobold. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/elementalRacialVariants.htm#earthKobolds)
That's right, you don't get any bonuses to your stats! Only negatives!

[CASTLEMIKE]

Huh!? I haven't even heard of most of the right side of that build. It sounds really bad, though.

Some ECS PRCs without casting and some very situational spellike abilities and class specials with average BAB. Extreme Explorer does provide Evasion though.

[DementedFellow]

Sorry, but bard is one fo the most powerful classes out there. Diplomancer and fascinate.

Not to mention Bardic Knowledge which is very helpful in a campaign.

Crappy (not aiming for the worst) Gestalt... I'm thinking Sorc/Wizard. Why? Because you gain nothing that either class didn't have aside from Scribe Scroll. Still sucky hit dice, and all the rest, but now you have two magic dependent stats. Could be made into a solid build if someone knew what he or she was doing. By having the blasting spells be sorcerer and the buffing spells taking from the wizards spell list, it could work. You'd still be weak as dishwater when it comes to melee though.

[MorkaisChosen]

You could do fairly well with Wiz//Sorc using Time Stop followed by a few buffs (Time Stop removes the Action problem- for a while, at least).

[Illiterate Scribe]

Wizard 10 / Foresaker 10 // Artificer 20.

Borked.

[The Rose Dragon]

Wizard 10 / Foresaker 10 // Artificer 20.

Borked.

I'll do you one better.

Wizard 19 / Forsaker 1 // Sorcerer 20.

[homestar3.14]

Wizard 10 / Foresaker 10 // Artificer 20.

Borked.

Hey, Scribe. Thanks again for the avatar.

What's a foresaker?

[Animefunkmaster]

I would like to offer up the Ex-Druid20/Ex-Cleric20: You get no class features/spells/whatever, 4+ int skills, medium bab, d8 hd, and a few proficiencies. Its true what they say Clerics and Druids do everything better... even sucking.

[shadeofblack]

sorcerer 20 / wizard 20

utterly pointless.

[MorkaisChosen]

Yeah, make him a Cleric of Obad-Hai or similar Neutral god then become LG or something... Woot, 3/4 BAB and armour, but no other abilities!

[homestar3.14]

sorcerer 20 / wizard 20

utterly pointless.

Either side of that build could completely own my Sam/Tru. And you get a bajillion spells per day.

[Xefas]

Wizard 1, Sorcerer 1, Wu Jen 1, Cleric 1, Favored Soul 1, Warmage 1, Bard 1, Druid 1, Healer 1, Psion 1, Shugenja 1, Wilder 1, Archivist 1, Dread Necromancer 1, Beguiler 1, Divine Bard 1, Savage Bard 1, Artificer 1, Urban Adept 1, Cloistered Cleric 1 // Wizard 1, Sorcerer 1, Wu Jen 1, Cleric 1, Favored Soul 1, Warmage 1, Bard 1, Druid 1, Healer 1, Psion 1, Shugenja 1, Wilder 1, Archivist 1, Dread Necromancer 1, Beguiler 1, Divine Bard 1, Savage Bard 1, Artificer 1, Urban Adept 1, Cloistered Cleric 1

He's a Kobold, assuming 25 point buy, his starting stats are:
Str 14
Dex 9
Con 13
Int 8
Wis 8
Cha 8


Too bad he's also been slapped silly with 6 Bestow Curse spells, bringing his final stats down to:
Str 8
Dex 3
Con 7
Int 2
Wis 2
Cha 2

The best thing is, even if he gets those curses healed, he still can't cast any spells since he needs at least 11 in a casting stat. Too bad he doesn't have a high enough intelligence to communicate the need to have the curses removed. The one redeeming quality he has is a rather high Will save (around +36, I'm guessing via eyeball).

[ZeroNumerous]

I always hated rangers. Illogically and for no reason. Their main class feature is nearly always useless, because you never know what you're going to be fighting.

Uh, most DMs I've played under are willing to tell you the main creature type in the event that you roll up a ranger. Or are willing to throw in favored enemy types.

Worse Gestalt Build: Half Fey Shadow Mineral Warrior Mummified Kobold (+6 STR, - CON, +8 DEX, -6 INT, +4 WIS, CHA+6) (LA+10).

Assuming 28 Point Buy:
STR- 8
DEX- 8
CON- 18
INT- 9
WIS- 9
CHA- 16

End Stats:
STR- 14
DEX- 16
CON- --
INT- 3
WIS- 13
CHA- 22

Throw on six Bestow Curses(Thanks Xefas!):
STR- 8
DEX- 10
CON- --
INT- -3
WIS- 7
CHA- 16

Classes: Wizard 10/Wu Jen 10.

End Result: 10d4(Avg 25)

Skills: 0.

Feats: 1st - Extend Spell; 3rd - Quicken Spell; 6th - Empower Spell; 9th - Maximize Spell.

Spells: None, he can't cast spells.

End Result: A Commoner 10 who can't possibly defeat a Samurai 20.

EDIT: New end result: He's comatose permanently.

[Superglucose]

Either side of that build could completely own my Sam/Tru. And you get a bajillion spells per day.

Hell, either side of that could own pretty much anything :P Sor/Wiz isn't bad at all, considering if you make the Wizard right it's a game breaker.

My entry?

Bard 1/ex Paladin19//Samurai 20

[PirateMonk]

Throw on six Bestow Curses(Thanks Xefas!):
STR- 8
DEX- 10
CON- --
INT- -3
WIS- 7
CHA- 16

Bestow Curse can't reduce anything below 1.

[Chronos]

I think I came up with a pretty decent one for one of Duke of URL's contests... Presto the Digitator (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3958522&postcount=53). It doesn't suck as bad as a Commoner 20 or anything like that (it'd actually be half-decent (or maybe quarter-decent) in melee), but it sucks very creatively.

I meant to replace the fighter level with a single level of Slayer, but didn't get a chance to before the deadline.


Bestow Curse can't reduce anything below 1.The -- Con is from being undead.

[ForzaFiori]

Bestow Curse can't reduce anything below 1.

it didn't. it started out with no Con.

[KIDS]

In sheer simplicity and pointlessness, I don't think anything beats Samurai 20/Ex-Paladin 20. Thinks about it, absolutely all things overlap and you gain absoutely nothing from Paladin. Truenamer would at least be able to suck at Truenaming, but this one doesn't even have that option.

No, wait!
I remembered something even better!
Ex-Samurai 20/Ex-Paladin 20!!! Beat that!!!!!

[dspeyer]

Ex-Samurai 20/Ex-Paladin 20!!! Beat that!!!!!

Ex-Wizard 20 // Ex-Sorcerer 20

How do you become an ex-wizard? Mordenkainen's Disjunction. Gestalt is no protection: disjuncting an artifact destroys "all spellcasting abilities".

An ex-paladin can seek redemption, and failing that has good hit dice, BAB and weapon proficiencies. No mortal magic can help our fallen caster, and he has nothing left besides his will save.

If you don't like the level-20-only build, just set int and cha to 9, for similar uselessness at all levels.

[Illiterate Scribe]

Hey, Scribe. Thanks again for the avatar.

What's a foresaker?

'tis fine. A foresaker is a character who renounces the use of all magic and magic items, and 'falls' like a paladin if they use them.

[The Rose Dragon]

'tis fine. A foresaker is a character who renounces the use of all magic and magic items, and 'falls' like a paladin if they use them.

It's Forsaker. And you know, losing those 10 levels isn't that bad. After all, you have all Good saves for those last 10 levels, and you have an d12 HD, and good BAB and you get 20 levels of sorcerer and 10 levels of wizard.

You don't suck that badly.

[bugsysservant]

Well, the utter worst builds have pretty much already been named, but I suppose something like, oh, Healer 19/Truenamer 1//Cleric 19/Ur-Preist 1

I'm AFB, and trying to remember which divine class grants the worst non-spell casting class features. You could probably get this a bit worse if you can think of a better loser divine caster (Shugenja maybe? I've never played one, but I seem to recall them sucking)

[Squash Monster]

Wizard 1 / Wu Jen 1 / Sorcerer 1 / Bard 1 / Cleric 1 / Druid 1 / Warmage 1 / Warlock 1 / Favored Soul 1 / Shugenja 1 / Spirit Shaman 1 / Healer 1 / Dread Necromancer 1 / Archivist 1 / Psion 1 / Beguiler 1 / Ur-Priest 1 / Ardent 1 / Divine Mind 1 / Lurk 1 // Artificer 20

Take vow of poverty.

[Bag_of_Holding]

Cleric 19/fighter 1//favoured soul 19/Ur-priest 1


Cast as 1st-level Ur-priest, 1 fighter bonus feat and tons of HD and skill points!




Edit: Darn, Bugsysservant already did a build based on this! AND he's a truenamer rather than a fighter! His build is soooo worse than mine... :smallfrown:

[Kurald Galain]

How do you become an ex-wizard? Mordenkainen's Disjunction. Gestalt is no protection: disjuncting an artifact destroys "all spellcasting abilities".
You can probably get around that by casting Wish.

Oh, wait a minute... :smallbiggrin:


Is there any reason I can't be a fighter // fighter? That would be sucky. Or a monk // monk, or something like that.

How about a barbarian // monk? You can't use either side's abilities because your alignment keeps oscillating!

[FlyMolo]

Ex-Wizard 20 // Ex-Sorcerer 20

How do you become an ex-wizard? Mordenkainen's Disjunction. Gestalt is no protection: disjuncting an artifact destroys "all spellcasting abilities".

An ex-paladin can seek redemption, and failing that has good hit dice, BAB and weapon proficiencies. No mortal magic can help our fallen caster, and he has nothing left besides his will save.

If you don't like the level-20-only build, just set int and cha to 9, for similar uselessness at all levels.

Actually, wizard and sorcerer get simple weapon proficiencies, so even ex-wizards get better stuff than commoners.

[KIDS]

Hehe, dspeyer, I agree that Ex-Wizard 20/Ex-Sorcerer 20 was even better than mine. I hold that as the current worst gestalt that doesn't include NPC classes. Cheers!

[Cuddly]

Wizard20/Archivist20.

It's blind, deaf, mute, had its arms and legs cut off, doesn't have a spell book, spent all its feats on weapon and armor proficiencies, and also has 6 bestow curses on it. Also, int and wis were dump stats.


Seriously, bestow curses for making a bad character is stupid.

[bugsysservant]

Wizard 1 / Wu Jen 1 / Sorcerer 1 / Bard 1 / Cleric 1 / Druid 1 / Warmage 1 / Warlock 1 / Favored Soul 1 / Shugenja 1 / Spirit Shaman 1 / Healer 1 / Dread Necromancer 1 / Archivist 1 / Psion 1 / Beguiler 1 / Ur-Priest 1 / Ardent 1 / Divine Mind 1 / Lurk 1 // Artificer 20

Take vow of poverty.

Actually, I feel as though Wizard 20//Archivist 20 would be the absolute worst with VoP. Especially if you take it at 18th, because you miss out on most of the bonus feats, and you lose the ability to cast spells without your spell books. Although you could tattoo on a few good ones, like enervation or whatnot, I suppose. Or just take spell mastery with all of your feats.

What's sad is that even though this would limit your spells to below a sorcerer, you would probably still be overpowered just due to how powerful high level magic is.

[CASTLEMIKE]

Ex-Wizard 20 // Ex-Sorcerer 20

How do you become an ex-wizard? Mordenkainen's Disjunction. Gestalt is no protection: disjuncting an artifact destroys "all spellcasting abilities".

No mortal magic can help our fallen caster, and he has nothing left besides his will save.

If you don't like the level-20-only build, just set int and cha to 9, for similar uselessness at all levels.

This gets my vote for worst possible gestalt build.

[Tokiko Mima]

Wasn't their a psionic build that mind transferred itself into a sandwich or something, keeping none of it's former psionic or mental abilities? :smalltongue:

[Squash Monster]

Actually, I believe it actually did keep its former abilities.

Quite a few people have considered doing the sandwich trick to get themselves into something slightly more useful, like the big dumb fighter's helmet.

It'd be an amusing character to play, but I still prefer the "familiar" who's actually a powerful wizard in cat form who's dominated a commoner into pretending to be a wizard.

[Leewei]

Wiz-20/Sor-20 is a fine place to start.

Let's create the character as a Half-Orc and dump both spellcasting stats down to 6. Assuming 28-point buy:

Str:17
Dex:19
Con:9
Int:6
Wis:15
Cha:7

(Stat increases applied to make even-numbered stats odd.)

Feats: Skill Focus x7 in skills that cannot be used untrained. Yes, Skill Focus has no prerequisite involving the affected skill. I checked. :smallwink:

His skill ranks will all be dumped in Balance.

[Zincorium]

Warforged Monk 20//(ex)druid 20. With adamantine body.

[MorkaisChosen]

How about a barbarian // monk? You can't use either side's abilities because your alignment keeps oscillating!

I considered that, but it's not allowed under the rules- to gain a level of Monk and a level of Barbarian at the same time (i.e. one Gestalt level-up) your alignment would need to be both Lawful and non-Lawful at the same time.

[Xyk]

Wizard 1, Sorcerer 1, Wu Jen 1, Cleric 1, Favored Soul 1, Warmage 1, Bard 1, Druid 1, Healer 1, Psion 1, Shugenja 1, Wilder 1, Archivist 1, Dread Necromancer 1, Beguiler 1, Divine Bard 1, Savage Bard 1, Artificer 1, Urban Adept 1, Cloistered Cleric 1 // Wizard 1, Sorcerer 1, Wu Jen 1, Cleric 1, Favored Soul 1, Warmage 1, Bard 1, Druid 1, Healer 1, Psion 1, Shugenja 1, Wilder 1, Archivist 1, Dread Necromancer 1, Beguiler 1, Divine Bard 1, Savage Bard 1, Artificer 1, Urban Adept 1, Cloistered Cleric 1

He's a Kobold, assuming 25 point buy, his starting stats are:
Str 14
Dex 9
Con 13
Int 8
Wis 8
Cha 8


Too bad he's also been slapped silly with 6 Bestow Curse spells, bringing his final stats down to:
Str 8
Dex 3
Con 7
Int 2
Wis 2
Cha 2

The best thing is, even if he gets those curses healed, he still can't cast any spells since he needs at least 11 in a casting stat. Too bad he doesn't have a high enough intelligence to communicate the need to have the curses removed. The one redeeming quality he has is a rather high Will save (around +36, I'm guessing via eyeball).

Wow, this one wins. I expect his saves to be pretty much godly, though. That's pretty much all he's got goin for him.

[MorkaisChosen]

Only problem being it has level 1 in loads of classes twice.

Ooh, Half-Orc Archivist 20//Wizard 20 with a dumped Int stat (preferably 5, although that's not possible in point-buy; can make do with 6). With that, he can't cast any spells, and only gets 2 skill points a level to attempt to use on Dark Knowledge.

[Closet_Skeleton]

Anyone with a combination of Sacred Fist (1 level), Forsaker (1 level), Cleric (maximum possible level), Monk (minimum level only) and Soulknife (maximum possible level). You can't cast Divine Spells and you can't use your Mindblade.

Or Warlock 10, Paladin 10 / Monk 10, Barbarian 10. Get an atonement spell all every level and you can advance in Barbarian/Warlock and Monk/Paladin at the same time. Except being a Barbarian and a Warlock at the same time is useless since Rage doesn't help Eldritch Blast and the slightly more synegised Monk/Paladin combination is still going to suck as a level 20 character.

[SilverClawShift]

Since gestalt is intended to allow you to maximize your potential by adopting the best features of two different paths.. Wouldn't the "worst" (as in, least true to the idea) gestalt character be a Fighter 20/Samurai 20?

They overlap so thoroughly...

[MorkaisChosen]

It's better to overlap two lost classes with low HD, BAB and saves- for example, the oft-suggested Int9 or less, Cha 9 or less Wizard//Sorcerer. At level 20, BAB+10, 20d4 hit dice and good Will saves but rubbish on everything else.

[strayth]

Crappy (not aiming for the worst) Gestalt... I'm thinking Sorc/Wizard.

I was going to say this but in the end you're still a 20 wiz. Ah hell Leewei convinced me with the Int 6 thing. Good God that would be funny.