phylactery...

[shadow_archmagi]

Three things.

1. Can I use an existing magical item and just add phylactery to it? For example, a nice enchanted spear, or a helm of opposite alignment?

2. Is there a limit to the size or shape of a phylactery? I can just imagine a castle plagued by liches, the players tear through the whole thing trying to find the phylactery, only to eventually realize the it is the ENTIRE BUILDING.

3. If so, what would be the most epic use of it? I'm thinking an airship would be a cool phylactery, although those tend to get shot down.

[Bag_of_Holding]

Three things.

1. Can I use an existing magical item and just add phylactery to it? For example, a nice enchanted spear, or a helm of opposite alignment?

2. Is there a limit to the size or shape of a phylactery? I can just imagine a castle plagued by liches, the players tear through the whole thing trying to find the phylactery, only to eventually realize the it is the ENTIRE BUILDING.

3. If so, what would be the most epic use of it? I'm thinking an airship would be a cool phylactery, although those tend to get shot down.


Any form of phylacteries can exist, but larger/more expensive phylacteries should cost more, in my opinion. No limit on size or type though.

The most epic use of creating phylactery would be making the entire multiverse your phylactery.

[Cybren]

I had an over the top campaign where the players would discover the BBEG lich made a giant ass statue (which was, of course, also the main dungeon) his entire phylactery. They it will get start moving and start stomping everyone stuff because I love the Ghostbusters movies.

I never ran it but man would that be cool.

[shadow_archmagi]

I can just see the moral drama of a phylactery world.

"Great. I can either let the entire universe be enslaved, or cause the deaths of everyone everywhere."

[Collin152]

Well, some will argue that phylacteries have a definite size and such, but I distinctly remember wizards giving us a lich with an Iron GOlem as a phylactery.
That is just plain badass.

[_Puppetmaster_]

one of the coolest ideas that I have seen for a pylactry was to make it the crystal sphere required for a genesis spell, mnaking the demiplane your phylactry. I don't know if that would work, but the idea is really cool.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Make your phylactary a dragon zombie on the positive energy plane.:smallbiggrin:

[shadow_archmagi]

How about two mortal enemies both becoming liches using the same object as a phylactery, resulting in an endless series of epic battles?

[Collin152]

Use an artifact that has a specific means of destruction.
Or a holy relic of a good diety.
Or the sun.
Something that can't be destroyed, won't be destroyed, or shouldn't be destroyed.

[FlyMolo]

The ocean. Or a glass of water which is then tipped into the ocean.

[Collin152]

"Those looneys are going to blow up the ocean!"
"We'll blow up the ocean!"

[Randel]

Make your phylactery out of a permanent wall of force, prismatic wall, or prismatic sphere.

If its a prismatic sphere, just surround it in an antimagic field and you have no worries about anyone getting inside it.

Or make your phylactery as a coffin, use your coffin as the chest used in a Secret Chest spell. Put in some spellbooks and material components, zap it to the astral plane and smash the miniature. Your phylactory is now lost forever in the astral plane where no magic can ever retrieve it. Though you can reform in it and plane shift out.

[FlyMolo]

Even better, get a minion. Give him the phylactery. Cast Maze, then transdimensional Dimension Lock. He becomes a vestige, and your phylactery is safe.

[Collin152]

Make your phylactery out of a permanent wall of force, prismatic wall, or prismatic sphere.

If its a prismatic sphere, just surround it in an antimagic field and you have no worries about anyone getting inside it.

Or make your phylactery as a coffin, use your coffin as the chest used in a Secret Chest spell. Put in some spellbooks and material components, zap it to the astral plane and smash the miniature. Your phylactory is now lost forever in the astral plane where no magic can ever retrieve it. Though you can reform in it and plane shift out.

Seeing as a disintigrate spell can undo a wall of force, I'd advise against that.

The coffin/secret chest thing? Genius.
I still say one should give their phylactery to somebody, then Imprison them. And tatoo a teleport spell on the poor sap's chest.
For extra saftey, imprison him from a portable hole, then destroy the hole. No way he can be freed, except maybe a wish.



Even better, get a minion. Give him the phylactery. Cast Maze, then transdimensional Dimension Lock. He becomes a vestige, and your phylactery is safe.

That works too, I guess. Except the jury's still out on exactly how that works.

[Randel]

Seeing as a disintegrate spell can undo a wall of force, I'd advise against that.


Disintegrate works against everything. Though a wall of force is invisible and immune to almost any other type of damage... except those that destroy anything else.

Build a maze of force walls (all invisible) put a pedistal in the middle of the maze with some jewel of other fake phylactory thing on it to mess with adventurers heads.

Then inscribe a whole bunch of messages on the walls of force using a magic marker. Some are cryptic riddles, others directions through the maze (some false) many others are explosive runes and symbols of insanity. Add all sorts of dangerous garbage and layers of illusions and hallucinatory terrain in the maze. Just to be safe, have your wall nowhere near the fake phylactery, possibly in a walled in area that nobody can get to in the maze Then inscribe your spellbooks spells on the floor or on the walls of force in the room.

[Collin152]

Disintegrate works against everything.
Let me rephrase:
Disintegrate destroys wall of force instantly, no question.
Just about anything else has some modicum of protection, even if all it is is hit points.

[Guildorn Tanaleth]

*Ahem* (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/lich.htm)


Each lich must make its own phylactery, which requires the Craft Wondrous Item feat. The character must be able to cast spells and have a caster level of 11th or higher. The phylactery costs 120,000 gp and 4,800 XP to create and has a caster level equal to that of its creator at the time of creation.

Emphasis added, nullifying most of the ideas in this thread.

[Collin152]

*Ahem* (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/lich.htm)



Emphasis added, nullifying most of the ideas in this thread.

Yes, the lich itself is puttign its soul into it, thereby creating a phylactery. THe massive amounts of cash are mearly for the componants in the ritual to do so.
Check and mate.

[Kedami]

Build a maze of force walls (all invisible) put a pedistal in the middle of the maze with some jewel of other fake phylactory thing on it to mess with adventurers heads.

Then inscribe a whole bunch of messages on the walls of force using a magic marker. Some are cryptic riddles, others directions through the maze (some false) many others are explosive runes and symbols of insanity. Add all sorts of dangerous garbage and layers of illusions and hallucinatory terrain in the maze. Just to be safe, have your wall nowhere near the fake phylactery, possibly in a walled in area that nobody can get to in the maze Then inscribe your spellbooks spells on the floor or on the walls of force in the room.

I would like to thank you on behalf of all DMs who love messing with their players. You've just given me an idea for an entire campaign, ending with a dungeon containing this.

[FlyMolo]

Disintegrate works against everything. Though a wall of force is invisible and immune to almost any other type of damage... except those that destroy anything else.

Build a maze of force walls (all invisible) put a pedistal in the middle of the maze with some jewel of other fake phylactory thing on it to mess with adventurers heads.

Then inscribe a whole bunch of messages on the walls of force using a magic marker. Some are cryptic riddles, others directions through the maze (some false) many others are explosive runes and symbols of insanity. Add all sorts of dangerous garbage and layers of illusions and hallucinatory terrain in the maze. Just to be safe, have your wall nowhere near the fake phylactery, possibly in a walled in area that nobody can get to in the maze Then inscribe your spellbooks spells on the floor or on the walls of force in the room.

Freakin' evil. Some refinements: Some of the walls are really stone, some are illusionary stone which coincides with a wall of force, and some are totally illusionary. Best of all, illusionary staircases over pits of spikes, so that only the wizards fall through. (high will saves). Dastardly DMs will construct the whole thing in three dimensions, with things that mess with gravity.

Really dastardly DMs will spring something macabre on the players. An endless fountain of dust, circling upwards to the ceiling, falling down in a torrent, then slipping back into the gravity reversal column. In among the dust are several minor magic items. Eventually, the players realize the dust is the pounded and powdered remains of a previous adventurer. He died, and started to cycle through the gravity thingie. Flesh rots away, then femurs and bones cycle through until they're pounded to dust on the floor. The magical items hold together because of self-repairing magics. For hundreds or thousands of years, this poor guy's body has been falling and pounding and falling and pounding.

Illusory everything. Illusions of small children with real poisoned needles in their eyes. They run up to you and try to headbutt you, and the needles are pulled along and into you, maybe by wires. Best of all, if you try and just disintegrate your way through, something bad should happen. Rocks fall out of the ceiling and smush you, or water held in strange places by gravity effects could drown you.

[Collin152]

So, are we designing a Neo Tomb of Horrors or something, then?

[Kedami]

Wow, this is so beautifully evil that I feel like I'm going to cry. I won't though, BBEGs have to keep up appearances.

*And then he gets to work making such a dungeon*

Edit
At Collin152: Yes, I am now.

Feel free to keep posting everyone.

[Collin152]

Remember, what the PC's are working towarrds in this dungeon is in fact, merely the entrance ot the Lich's private dimension courtesey of Genesis.
The phylactery remains protected there, and after working through those protections, you must cast Freedom, then fight the (Vastly Improved) Iron Golem Phylactery itself.

[Kedami]

Remember, what the PC's are working towarrds in this dungeon is in fact, merely the entrance ot the Lich's private dimension courtesey of Genesis.
The phylactery remains protected there, and after working through those protections, you must cast Freedom, then fight the (Vastly Improved) Iron Golem Phylactery itself.

So... At the end of the maze is a private dimension with even more death and pain for the PCs? I think I'm really starting to like it on these forums. My players deserve this for the amount of times they've just really messed me about (in-game and out).

[Collin152]

Exactly. And after all this death and pain, and fighting The Dragon (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheDragon)
they still have to manage to kill this guy, and he's bound to be under major lock and key after his last safeguard goes down.

[Cade Shadow]

try the body of some 5-7 year old girl, who is frozen with the timeless body spell. (There's some spell like that). Dispel 'timeless body' right as the adventurers wake up. Make them have to kill a little girl, who would know that she was about to die, in order to kill you.

Only the Belkar of the group would kill her. And even then, the Roy couldn't/wouldn't let him.

Edit: to meet the requirement for the lich to make his phylactery, make the girl his/her daughter and find a golem-type use for craft wonderous item for her, if only an eye.

[Collin152]

try the body of some 5-7 year old girl, who is frozen with the timeless body spell. (There's some spell like that). Dispel 'timeless body' right as the adventurers wake up. Make them have to kill a little girl, who would know that she was about to die, in order to kill you.

Only the Belkar of the group would kill her. And even then, the Roy couldn't/wouldn't let him.

Edit: to meet the requirement for the lich to make his phylactery, make the girl his/her daughter and find a golem-type use for craft wonderous item for her, if only an eye.

THe spell is Temporal Stasis.
What do we craft for us to put our soul in for this little child?
Her soul.
I'm sure the Book of Vile Darkness' will get us an approximation for the value of souls. Just destroy enough to equal the cost, and the product of their destruction is a soul for this young child. Killing her is the only solution.
The secret is: You crafter her a Warlock soul. If the ytry to kill her, she can fight back at the last moment.

[Chosen_of_Vecna]

Best of all, illusionary staircases over pits of spikes, so that only the wizards fall through. (high will saves).

Just out of curiosity, what Wizard isn't flying all day by the time this sort of thing becomes a realistic challenge?

[Kedami]

Just out of curiosity, what Wizard isn't flying all day by the time this sort of thing becomes a realistic challenge?

That comment isn't in the spirit of things.

And here I am trying and failing to make a radius of 180' for the Dimension in the middle.

[The_Werebear]

It will catch Clerics, Druids, and Monks too.

[Kedami]

To the original poster.

I'm very sorry that your thread has been hijacked, but your questions were answered quickly and then everything kind of went out of control.

-----

It seems to be the courtious thing to say.

[Roderick_BR]

Best of all, illusionary staircases over pits of spikes, so that only the wizards fall through. (high will saves).
I love that one. You'll need a shadow illusion to make it sold enough, right? the only problem is that most wizards won't even touch it in fear of conventional traps, and will fly over it. Any idea to mess with flight? Maybe random areas of Reverse Gravity?

[Kedami]

I love that one. You'll need a shadow illusion to make it sold enough, right? the only problem is that most wizards won't even touch it in fear of conventional traps, and will fly over it. Any idea to mess with flight? Maybe random areas of Reverse Gravity?

There is always the good old low roof where even the halfling has to duck.

[trehek]

Quote from Monster Manual on the form of the phylactery:

"The most common form of phylactery is a sealed metal box containing strips of parchment on which magical phrases have been transcribed. The box is Tiny and has 40 hit points, hardness 20, and a break DC of 40. Other forms of phylacteries can exist, such as rings, amulets, or similar items."

It should be pretty safe to say that most ideas here don't fall even under "similar items". Whenever a phylactery is used with a custom form, I expect it should somehow contain the abovementioned magical phrases. Considering how unfair a properly hidden phylactery already is, I would definitely keep at least some limit on what it can be.

Since unique and weird phylacteries can be nice plot elements, I would at least rule that if such phylacteries are used, their nature should somehow be immediately obvious from the death of the lich.

[Kedami]

What's to say these similar items aren't inside the Golem?

Adventurers may defeat the Golem, but not many of them think to dig through its body for a ring of metal with no obvious magical properties...

[Surgoshan]

So making a phylactery out of the darkness is right out...

[Xuincherguixe]

So making a phylactery out of the darkness is right out...

Maybe if you somehow were able to create shapes out of darkness. Even more beautiful would be to then put more darkness over it, so no one notices it.


But lost in the astral plane, or an object necessary for the survival of the world are the best bets really.

[GammaPaladin]

If you use the crystal sphere for a Genesis spell... Just populate your demiplane with innocent people, and make it a little paradise so they don't want to leave.

Moral dilemma anyone?

Though I like the "your child" idea too. I mean, technically, you made them. The cost of the ritual satisfies the rest... If you kill them, they're an object, and you can then resurrect them afterwards, so that they're a living phylactery.

Of course, you have to be hellaciously evil to do that.

[Kedami]

Of course, you have to be hellaciously evil to do that.

*mumblemumble*I'd do that...

[chormin]

I propose many false phylacteries, including prayerboxes in iron golems, and a large gem with visible souls trapped in it. Or at least ghosts faking it that are released when it is destroyed. Finally, the phylactery ends up being the obsidian heart given to an innocent child-aged sibling friend or fan of our hero, the heart of course being necessary to live because of some curse.

[GammaPaladin]

The downside is, smart players can just release her from the temporal stasis and take her away. She can live a long happy life and die of old age... And still cut your eternal life short when she dies and gets cremated ;)

Which is why the demiplane full of innocent farmer types (Many of whom will obviously be children) is better.

[Surgoshan]

Maybe if you somehow were able to create shapes out of darkness. Even more beautiful would be to then put more darkness over it, so no one notices it.

But do they really need to notice it?

I attack the darkness!

[Collin152]

Quote from Monster Manual on the form of the phylactery:

"The most common form of phylactery is a sealed metal box containing strips of parchment on which magical phrases have been transcribed. The box is Tiny and has 40 hit points, hardness 20, and a break DC of 40. Other forms of phylacteries can exist, such as rings, amulets, or similar items."

It should be pretty safe to say that most ideas here don't fall even under "similar items". Whenever a phylactery is used with a custom form, I expect it should somehow contain the abovementioned magical phrases. Considering how unfair a properly hidden phylactery already is, I would definitely keep at least some limit on what it can be.

Since unique and weird phylacteries can be nice plot elements, I would at least rule that if such phylacteries are used, their nature should somehow be immediately obvious from the death of the lich.

I'm fairly sure Iron Golems are not similar to rings or other trinkets, yet wizards gave us that as a phylactery.

[Randel]

Oh, and on the subject of absurdly evil things to add to a maze... try adding Control Winds (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/controlWinds.htm) to it somehow.

Imagine if 175+ mile an hour winds were being pumped through indestructible tunnels from outside the maze. Various switches used to turn the force walls on and off, to periodically 'clean out' sections of the maze.

Oh, and if adventurers decide to just disintegrate their way through the walls they might find out that behind the invisible walls are invisible hurricane level winds capable of ripping apart trees and buildings.

Throw in a decanter of endless water firing a geyser through a cold-substituted wall of fire and you could have golf-ball sized chunks of hail flying through the winds as well.

Of course, Control Winds is on the druid spell list and can't be permanencied... but one can dream.


Oh, and as for phylactory ideas... Get six or eight decanters of endless water, attach them in a ring around a sturdy metal platform and put a weight hanging from a pole in the middle to balance it so it always points up. Turn the decanters on full blast so that the platform flies up into the sky and the weight keeps it always pointing upwards. If properly set, it will constantly fly above the land raining down water on those below it.

Build a little bubble of force for you to reform in and then envelope the whole thing in a permanent cloud to hide it from vision.
I'm just a little black rain cloud. Hovering for all eternity.
I'm just a little black raincloud. Pay no attention to little me...

[Collin152]

Oh, and as for phylactory ideas... Get six or eight decanters of endless water, attach them in a ring around a sturdy metal platform and put a weight hanging from a pole in the middle to balance it so it always points up. Turn the decanters on full blast so that the platform flies up into the sky and the weight keeps it always pointing upwards. If properly set, it will constantly fly above the land raining down water on those below it.

Build a little bubble of force for you to reform in and then envelope the whole thing in a permanent cloud to hide it from vision.
I'm just a little black rain cloud. Hovering for all eternity.
I'm just a little black raincloud. Pay no attention to little me...

Can't I just cast levitate?

[_Zoot_]

Can't I just cast levitate?

You could just levitate it above a moutain or some other place the cloud is all ways around. Then no body will see it or think it out of the norm

i am planing to make a lich, this is all gold:smallbiggrin:

[Collin152]

What if I spent my resoures to create an abstract concept? Liek a kingdom?

[dukexx]

Either the players know how to use the locate city bomb, or that lich is there to stay. to use a bastardized quote, "It will not be dead until nobody living follows it". yeah, some zealous farmer will keep that skeleton alive.

[Talic]

One minor point of note: A phylactery may not be enchanted. Thus, no magic item phylacteries.

[Kedami]

Oh, and on the subject of absurdly evil things to add to a maze... try adding Control Winds (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/controlWinds.htm) to it somehow.

Imagine if 175+ mile an hour winds were being pumped through indestructible tunnels from outside the maze. Various switches used to turn the force walls on and off, to periodically 'clean out' sections of the maze.

Oh, and if adventurers decide to just disintegrate their way through the walls they might find out that behind the invisible walls are invisible hurricane level winds capable of ripping apart trees and buildings.

Throw in a decanter of endless water firing a geyser through a cold-substituted wall of fire and you could have golf-ball sized chunks of hail flying through the winds as well.

Of course, Control Winds is on the druid spell list and can't be permanencied... but one can dream.

Did this give anyone else the idea of an evil group of ex-adventurers who want to test the next generation?

This is my most favourite thread ever.

[GammaPaladin]

I don't play arcane casters enough...

What's a spell to destoy a demiplane?

Just do craft contingent spell (Whatever will destroy the demiplane) based on the phylactery being destroyed.

Same effect.

[Kedami]

I don't think, short of researching your own Epic spell, that you're going to be able to collapse an entire plane, even if it is only 360 feet wide at all angles.

Edit
Unless your DM feels it is appropriate with a Wish or Miracle, but I wouldn't allow that.

[shadow_archmagi]

To the original poster.

I'm very sorry that your thread has been hijacked, but your questions were answered quickly and then everything kind of went out of control.

-----

It seems to be the courtious thing to say.

What are you talking about? You answered my original question (YES!) and then all proceeded to spout wonderful ideas.

My own personal preference is an old steel bolt, which I'd surgically implant into the Head Minion. The adventurers won't notice unless actively dissecting him, and then quite possibly just figure its an old war wound, as Head Minion isn't exactly a safe line of work. They either bury the body or cremate it, but either way they'll never notice that bullet.

Alternatively, my flying castle.

[Kedami]

Meh, fair enough...

Wait. Flying castle?

[shadow_archmagi]

What self respecting villian doesn't have a flying castle? Preferably invisible of course, and if you've got reasonably well educated players, add a wolf noise.

Wait for the groans as they realize it is a howl moving castle.

[Sornjss Lichdom]

Three things.

1. Can I use an existing magical item and just add phylactery to it? For example, a nice enchanted spear, or a helm of opposite alignment?

2. Is there a limit to the size or shape of a phylactery? I can just imagine a castle plagued by liches, the players tear through the whole thing trying to find the phylactery, only to eventually realize the it is the ENTIRE BUILDING.

3. If so, what would be the most epic use of it? I'm thinking an airship would be a cool phylactery, although those tend to get shot down.

I'm sure this has been pointed out but incase it hasn't..

The phylactery can not be magical before it is created. It can be as big as you want but if it is magical then you can't do anything to it.

[Chronos]

I'm sure this has been pointed out but incase it hasn't..

The phylactery can not be magical before it is created. It can be as big as you want but if it is magical then you can't do anything to it.Where is this rule from? In the core rules, the closest I can see is that you'd have to pay an extra multi-purpose price for combining magical items, but that's not all that much of a cost.

Note also that you can unmake phylacteries (like any other magic item) with a (Mordenkainen's) Disjunction. This would provide a good answer to all of the moral dilemma phylacteries people are proposing: The creepy girl isn't a phylactery any more, but she's still alive.

[Malachite]

I liked the idea of putting the phylactery in a nest of immovabe rods a couple of miles up and with invisibility cast upon it. Chances are astronomical that anyone will ever stumble on it.

[VerdugoExplode]

If the lich wanted to be truly evil he should just make his phylactery a single gold coin, hide the magic aura and toss it in a dragons horde. Odds are in the event that adventurers killed the dragon they would just spend it on something magical, maybe a night at the inn but after it had entered general circulation it would probably never be seen again and be almost impossible to trace given its generic nature. I mean, would you ever expect that a gold coin found amongst thousands of other nearly identical coins would actually store the evil soul of an undead monstrosity?

[FlyMolo]

I liked the idea of putting the phylactery in a nest of immovabe rods a couple of miles up and with invisibility cast upon it. Chances are astronomical that anyone will ever stumble on it.

Chances are nil if you put it up high enough. Your Nailed to The Sky victims might crash into it, though.

[Collin152]

Isn't there a spell that splits a phylactery?
Use that expediciously.
Thou shalt number them as the sands of the sea.

[_Puppetmaster_]

If the lich wanted to be truly evil he should just make his phylactery a single gold coin, hide the magic aura and toss it in a dragons horde. Odds are in the event that adventurers killed the dragon they would just spend it on something magical, maybe a night at the inn but after it had entered general circulation it would probably never be seen again and be almost impossible to trace given its generic nature. I mean, would you ever expect that a gold coin found amongst thousands of other nearly identical coins would actually store the evil soul of an undead monstrosity?

but then the lich might be killed by the dragon.

in the draconomicon, there is a quote from a gold dragon that goes along the lines of "Dragons collect treasure because it's beautiful. And besides, some treasure is really good eating."

[mostlyharmful]

Does that flesh to stone - stone to mud - pour mud into river, you never actually died so you can't be ressed thing work with phylacteries? I never actually destroyed it but it's now the component atoms drifting on the seabed.:smallfrown:

Alternately, wrap it in lead and cast a permenancied sequester on it, then stick it in some randomly chosen astroid thousands of light years away. then wrap that in a Sanctuary. :smallamused:

Edit: the phylactery splitting spell is an epic casting, Aumvors Shattered Phylactery, increases the number of objects that serve as phylacteries by your casting stat modifier. Yet anouther shining example of the boneheadedness of epic casting.

[Malachite]

You can't put it too far away - I thought about the moon, but you'd have a job getting it there, let alone getting back after you reform next to it.

[Collin152]

You can't put it too far away - I thought about the moon, but you'd have a job getting it there, let alone getting back after you reform next to it.

Greater Teleport.

[Copacetic]

Make your phylactercy a rock. Use stone to flesh on it. Then serve it at the local pub as mystery meat. They'll never see it coming.

"What about my phylactercy?"
"I eated it!"

[Sstoopidtallkid]

4 Walls of Force (Permanancied):10,000 XP
A Prismatic Sphere (Permanancied):4,500 XP
Item of Continuous Widened Antimagic Field: 306,000 GP
Knowing nothing in the world is capable of reaching your phylactery: Priceless.

For the curious, triangular pyramid of WoF, Prismatic sphere inside, teleport out, grab phylactery, spellbook, and materials for the widget of AMF. Teleport back, leave phylactery and spellbook inside Prismatic Sphere, finish widget outside Prismatic Sphere. Walk back inside Prismatic Sphere, teleport out. If you are really cautious, include an item of Dimension Lock that is continuous unless you manually deactivate it, in which case it auto-reactivates after 1 hour. Toss that inside the Prismatic Sphere to stop other people from teleporting in accidentally. Make the entire thing inside your private Genesis Plane that no one but you can access. The only limit is how paranoid you can be.

[Collin152]

I thought walls of force had to be verticle now?

[Sstoopidtallkid]

I thought walls of force had to be verticle now?I thought WotC used one as a roof once in a module or something. If not, then I may have to re-design.

[FlyMolo]

The only limit is how paranoid you can be.

And sometimes, not even that. It's possible to beat an anti-magic field with repeated castings of Mordy's big D. Sooner or later, you're going to roll well on that d100.

Shatter your phylactery into 5 or 6. Hide one in the gold supply, one on a faraway asteroid, one in orbit, the other inside a golem, one inside all those protections, and wear the last one.

[Collin152]

Use Polymorph any Object cheese to turn it into an abstract concept, like Fear.
Or just use Terror Itself as your phylactery.

[Randel]

PaO your phylactery into another Lich... and then have him build his phylactery into you. Now if you die you reform next to him and if he dies he reforms next to you. If anybody kills one of you... have the other one greater teleport to one of thousands of evil lairs until the other is reformed.

[Collin152]

Wait, create a powerful undead as your phylactery. Something like a dread wraith that creates a ton of spawn, and have them always flock together, enveloping prey to add to their massive soul-protecting bulk. So long as your phylactery-wraith survives, you not only get immortality, but a massive army of wraiths.

[EagleWiz]

This reminds me of when I was in an evil campaign. My lich used energy protection spells, teleported to a random star, teleported to another random star,then another, and another untill it was a LONG way away from earth. Then he went to a small moon, created a dungeon there, put a pedestal with a gemstone on it (Gemstone was used for soul trap) in the middle, put a permanant prismatic sphere around it, 6 permanancy walls of force around it, Demention locked the whole area, and put an AMF around it. Using a magic item. Oh and had it guarded by a max hit dice, intelegant, iron golem. Who in fact had the real psyclatry inside his left arm.

[Randel]

Wait, create a powerful undead as your phylactery. Something like a dread wraith that creates a ton of spawn, and have them always flock together, enveloping prey to add to their massive soul-protecting bulk. So long as your phylactery-wraith survives, you not only get immortality, but a massive army of wraiths.

Lich: "Hey adventurers! I need you to destroy my phylactory... ever since it gained sentience it started plotting world domination with its own exponentially-increasing army of ghosty death!"

Heros: "You want us to destroy your phylactery?"

Lich: "Yeah! It keeps stealing my ideas."

[SurlySeraph]

Make your phylactercy a rock. Use stone to flesh on it. Then serve it at the local pub as mystery meat. They'll never see it coming.

"What about my phylactercy?"
"I eated it!"

Wouldn't eating your phylactery kinda destroy it?

[Collin152]

Lich: "Hey adventurers! I need you to destroy my phylactory... ever since it gained sentience it started plotting world domination with its own exponentially-increasing army of ghosty death!"

Heros: "You want us to destroy your phylactery?"

Lich: "Yeah! It keeps stealing my ideas."

It'd be just like having children. Evil, amorphous children.

[shadow_archmagi]

Make a huge, evil dungeon, inside of which is a pedestal, on top of which is a gem which activates a demiplane full of powerful demons, and at the far end of the super-demonic demiplane dungeon is the world's most complicated strongbox, and inside is the highest CR golem possible. Upon killing the golem, inside is an obsidian heart. Make the adventurers quite aware that destroying it will cause the demiplane to collapse, forcing them to leave someone behind to destroy it properly.


This is all irrelevant to the lich, as the phylactery is inside the pedestal next to the entrance.

[Randel]

1: Be a wizard or sorcerer with a familiar
2: Become a lich with a phylactery
3: Give your phylactery to your familiar
4: Never mention your familiar again.
5: ???
6: Profit!

or

1. Create a permanent Rope Trick effect
2. Put your phylactery inside it.
3. Pull up the rope
4. Jump down out of the Rope Trick Effect
5. ???
6. Profit!

or

1. Get a friend who can cast True Resurrection
2. Kill yourself
3. Have your friend cast True Resurrection on you.
4. You are now alive, put your phylactery in your attic where people don't mess with your stuff. If you die then you reform as a Lich, but nobody suspects that you are a Lich and therefore don't look for your phylactery.
5. Get a girlfriend.
6. ???
7. Profit!

[Chronos]

1. Get a friend who can cast True Resurrection
2. Kill yourself
3. Have your friend cast True Resurrection on you.Doesn't work. Your soul may be willing to return, but it's not free (it's bound up in your phylactery), so the True Resurrection fails.

Also, for anyone planning on hiding your phylactery through obscurity (coin, pebble on the beach, etc.), remember that a phylactery is a valid subject for Legend Lore, and probably also for Scrying.

[Collin152]

Doesn't work. Your soul may be willing to return, but it's not free (it's bound up in your phylactery), so the True Resurrection fails.

Also, for anyone planning on hiding your phylactery through obscurity (coin, pebble on the beach, etc.), remember that a phylactery is a valid subject for Legend Lore, and probably also for Scrying.

We have abjurations against that, you know.

[Alleine]

You can't put it too far away - I thought about the moon, but you'd have a job getting it there, let alone getting back after you reform next to it.

You are a lich, time no longer matters that much to you so you can take your sweet time flying to the moon and back. And when you reform there, all that needs to be done is teleport away.
And its not even dangerous, you wont die of suffocation or cold. Spells will protect you from anything else.

[trehek]

We have abjurations against that, you know.

It's not quite that simple. If you use permanency to place abjurations against all reasonable forms of scrying/finding then you will get the fluctuation effect inherent in abjurations, which will turn the rock (or whichever) into a visibly glowing one after 24 hours.

[Farmer42]

Say what? where in the rules does it say that Abj will make it glow?

[trehek]

About using a demiplane, a lich could add a nice negative dominant trait to the plane damaging any living creatures who enter. If he also puts restrictions for entry to the plane, it can become very devious indeed. For example, if all shifting into the demiplane is limited to a single room, which is then filled with antimagic and sealed, so anyone entering will be left at the mercy of the negative dominant trait without being able to cast protections.

The lich doesn't even need to leave any ways to safely enter the plane. As long as the phylactery is in a safe place inside the plane, the lich can kill himself to get to his phylactery and enter the demiplane "safely".

[trehek]

Say what? where in the rules does it say that Abj will make it glow?

Well, "barely visible" but still...the rock will be different than all the other rocks on the beach.
PHB 3.5 page 172.

[Farmer42]

OK, so then you take the time to enchant several hundred thousand of the little buggers. As was stated earlier, it's not like you don't have time.

[shadow_archmagi]

I still argue the pedestal just outside the demiplane. That way even if the adventurers DO scry it, they'll see the entrance to the demiplane, and assume its in there, rather than just underneath.

[Farmer42]

You can always just dump it on the Positive Energy plane. Watch and laugh as the adventurers go after it and explode in a puff of happiness.

[shadow_archmagi]

Positive energy.. yes... thats bri- oh wait, it kills me too.

[Farmer42]

Actually, no it doesn't. Liches, as undead, are immune to any fort save that does not work against objects. Objects don't poof on the PEP, so neither do undead.

[shadow_archmagi]

...

So the creatures made of negative energy can actually thrive and be happy on the positive energy plane?

What about, you know... roving positive critters?

[Farmer42]

Don't know about them, but you do get the benefits of the fast healing, and since you don't have to make fort saves or explode, you have a lot of them after a while.

[Chronos]

Of course, while the rules as written do imply that undead suffer no ill effects from the Positive Energy Plane, most DMs will houserule otherwise, likely without even realizing that they are houseruling.

[Collin152]

If we're putting our phylactery on a differant plane of existance, I hererby claim one of the infinite layers of the abyss. One of them is bound to instantly slay any mortal entering it.

[GammaPaladin]

It's worth noting that, from the Liche's perspective, the most obvious threats to his existence are actually other Liches. Might not be a good idea to have traps and defenses that only work against the living.

My solution: Create a demiplane, when choosing the environment, make it ambient negative energy like the negative energy plane. Place the entrance on the positive energy plane. Put your phylactery inside.

You have to get through the positive energy plane to get to the entrance, and then survive in the negative energy of the demiplane.

Naturally, you yourself can get there just by dying, and can plane shift out.

Actually, you can do it even more easily. Just create a demiplane within a demiplane within a demiplane, within a demiplane... Each having a different hostile environment.

[Collin152]

It's worth noting that, from the Liche's perspective, the most obvious threats to his existence are actually other Liches. Might not be a good idea to have traps and defenses that only work against the living.

My solution: Create a demiplane, when choosing the environment, make it ambient negative energy like the negative energy plane. Place the entrance on the positive energy plane. Put your phylactery inside.

You have to get through the positive energy plane to get to the entrance, and then survive in the negative energy of the demiplane.

Naturally, you yourself can get there just by dying, and can plane shift out.

Undead seem to get through just fine.
If the location instantly kills the living, just use your defences to take out everythign else.

[Benejeseret]

I am a fan of hidden cliches (or obvious depending on the DM/Players).

1. In a small metal thingy, surgically implanted into a young man's forehead, leaving a scar.

2. In a cup (preferable a magically healing cup) in among other cups in a death-trapped vault and the PC have the choice of destroying it or saving their dying Sean Connery father.

3. In a giant skull over a temple guarded by a woman with green eyes, the three storms, and the Wing Kong gang.

[Collin152]

I am a fan of hidden cliches (or obvious depending on the DM/Players).

1. In a small metal thingy, surgically implanted into a young man's forehead, leaving a scar.

2. In a cup (preferable a magically healing cup) in among other cups in a death-trapped vault and the PC have the choice of destroying it or saving their dying Sean Connery father.

3. In a giant skull over a temple guarded by a woman with green eyes, the three storms, and the Wing Kong gang.

What If I was a cleric? I could save my Sean Connery and still have time to smash a pretty cup.