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raistlin807
2008-03-08, 11:19 PM
Ok, I've basically lost all respect for traps seeing as how they are so easily rendered useless. Normal scenario for my group; *looking down a corridor* (Rogue) I wonder if there are any traps? (Druid/Wizard/Archivist) Let's find out *summon monster* BOOOM! (Druid/Wizard/Archivist) I guess there were. (Rogue) *Sits in the corner and cries.* Is there anything I can do to change this?

Paragon Badger
2008-03-08, 11:23 PM
Antimagic fields? :smalltongue:

Ascension
2008-03-08, 11:29 PM
Might not be able to help you with the wizard or archivist, but there's an easy answer to a druid who's using animals as cannon fodder... They're an ex-druid. Sending animals to the slaughter in order to discover traps which your rogue companion could have disabled without unnecessary bloodshed sounds to me like an action which would clash badly with the whole nature-loving druidic ethic.

With the wizard or archivist you have to get more pragmatic, remind them what other things those summoned creatures could be used for. Still won't help with high-level guys, but it might work at low levels when there aren't so many spell slots to burn.

Alternatively, just start building your dungeons with traps that automatically reset, and reset quickly. Sure you know they're there because you sent a few animals to the slaughter, but unless the rogue disables them, you're still going to fry.

Farmer42
2008-03-08, 11:30 PM
Make the ocasional trap that targets a caster trying to do that. Sure, it's mean and nasty when that's the primary form of trapfinding, but if there's a rogue and he isn't getting a chance to shine, nuke the caster once or twice to remind him that there's a reason rogues exist. Also, try putting traps in that have instant reset times. The players will learn.

Xefas
2008-03-08, 11:30 PM
In 3rd edition, traps are mostly stupid and arbitrary anyway. It's an entire section of the game that can only be handled by a single class. What's the fun in bringing the entire game to a screeching halt so you can all watch one guy roll a couple dice. He doesn't even make decisions- success or failure is based on nothing. You roll a die. If you succeed, the game continues on and the trap meant absolutely nothing but wasted time. If you fail, the rogue takes some minor damage (which he still might avoid via Evasion), you heal him, and you continue on.

If someone wants to waste a couple spells to expedite this monotonous and largely futile mechanic of the game, then I say there's nothing wrong with that.

BRC
2008-03-08, 11:30 PM
The thing about Traps, is that if the players bypass them it's just a few unexiteing dice rolls. If the players don't, its a glaive to the face. Either way is not that fun and generally not worth it.

Tokiko Mima
2008-03-08, 11:40 PM
Have you run the Tomb of Horrors (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/oa/20051031a) for your players lately? That adventure definately teaches proper respect for traps. Traps will always be boring if they're standard die roll deals. If you're afraid to touch the ground, ceiling, or walls in a certain area, or the trap causes the druid's monster to simply vanish without giving a clue as to what happened to it, traps can become a much more suspenseful element in dungeons.

Ascension
2008-03-08, 11:47 PM
Or, if you don't want to do the Tomb of Horrors to them, at least take a look through Dungeonscape. I can't wait to implement some of the stuff from that book. Someday I'm going to DM, and someday I'm going to build a dungeon to be feared. FEARED, I say!

Severus
2008-03-09, 12:31 AM
I tend to agree with others that traps are mostly tedious, and not value add to the game.

They should be rare, and very significant when found. They aren't one shot traps that you can trigger with a level one summon monster. The trap resets and will just keep destroying your monsters.

Spot and search should have other functions besides trap finding. Your party is sure there is a secret compartment in here. Only the rogue can find it and so forth (for those types of rolls, I suggest not rolling, but just giving it as a "gimme" to the rogue if he asks about it. You don't want significant plot events possibly bypassed by a failed roll.)

melchizedek
2008-03-09, 01:15 AM
Two ways to make this option not work as well:

1) Create magical traps that only target humanoids. I'm not completely sure of any explicitly stated way of doing this in the rules, but, as the DM, it should be completely within your power. Don't do this with all your traps, but a few here and there should be enough to make it so that a summoned creature isn't the only method of checking for traps.

2) Traps that either summon or release monsters. If the trap summons or releases a level-appropriate monster, then having a summoned creature trigger it won't really do very much. They'll still have to fight the creature(s) just as if they had triggered the trap themselves. If, however, a rogue located and disabled the trap, they would be able to continue unhindered. This also works for other traps that hinder the party regardless of how they get trigered. The entire corridor could collapse, making it far harder to get to their destination. One particularly nasty (but probably highly effective solution, is to have the trap destroy some particularly valuable treasure the players would otherwise get. Nothing hits the PCs harder than their treasure.

AslanCross
2008-03-09, 02:55 AM
Have the traps reset automatically at random intervals. That way they don't really know when the trap is actually inert.

Sofaking
2008-03-09, 03:04 AM
Delay the release of the trap until 1 or two rounds past triggering. So the trap actually triggers when the PC walk behind the monster. Have a trap that is complex to trigger like turning opening or manipulating objects which a summoned monster may have problems with.

Diamondeye
2008-03-09, 05:47 AM
Offset trap.

Have the trap trigger down the hall where the animal goes, and the effect in the area of the PCs.

If they complain, point out that whoever set the traps knew full well that sending summoned creatures to set them off was a possibility.

Attilargh
2008-03-09, 05:55 AM
Then the Rogue points out that had he or she been alone, the trap would've done nothing to deter him or her from plundering the riches of the place. No fun is had by anyone.

Really, the best traps are those really obvious, overblown ones. Like giant bladed pendulums swinging across a hallway, or a huge boulder rolling at the heroes, or any other encounter trap from Dungeonscape. That way no-one gets blindsided by something only the rogue was supposed to prevent, and everyone gets to participate in the staying alive game.

Rachel Lorelei
2008-03-09, 07:02 AM
Might not be able to help you with the wizard or archivist, but there's an easy answer to a druid who's using animals as cannon fodder... They're an ex-druid. Sending animals to the slaughter in order to discover traps which your rogue companion could have disabled without unnecessary bloodshed sounds to me like an action which would clash badly with the whole nature-loving druidic ethic.
There's some problems here.

Druids have to "revere nature", not love animals. This can include concepts like, oh, survival of the fittest. Remember, nature has insects that plant their eggs inside other, still-living creatures, and their babies hatch from inside those living creatures and burrow out.

Summoned animals don't actually die! They suffer no permanent harm at all. They are sent back to Arborea, which is basically Animal Heaven.

With the wizard or archivist you have to get more pragmatic, remind them what other things those summoned creatures could be used for. Still won't help with high-level guys, but it might work at low levels when there aren't so many spell slots to burn.

Alternatively, just start building your dungeons with traps that automatically reset, and reset quickly. Sure you know they're there because you sent a few animals to the slaughter, but unless the rogue disables them, you're still going to fry.[/QUOTE]

Mark Hall
2008-03-09, 07:10 AM
Don't forget the trap that destroys the treasure!

Do this a couple times. Then have the treasure be potions, and drag out one of your older DMGs for the Potion Miscibility Tables. Roll multiple times, since you're mixing multiple potions. Enjoy when the floor explodes, or billows massive amounts of toxic gas.

Illiterate Scribe
2008-03-09, 07:11 AM
Be creepy, and have traps that steal control of your summoned monsters - when your celestial badger returns down the corridor, you may think 'oh, all's well then', but what happens when it stops obeying your commands to stop, and goes for your throat?

It might not completely solve the problem, but it will freak the players out.

Pironious
2008-03-09, 07:43 AM
Wait...

There are traps that don't have instant resets?

A DM I know filled the dungeon for his level 5 party with insta-reset fireball traps. Usually triggered by thermal detection, and arranged in such a way that one trap going off could start a chain reaction with areas overlapping slightly.

As I recall, the rogue in that group rolled a 1 eventually on his reflex save.

MorkaisChosen
2008-03-09, 07:50 AM
Heh. I like the fireballs...

The other way to do it is to make the traps a bit... Well, a bit Zelda, really- when you enter the room the door shuts and locks behind you, and you have to do something complicated (preferably involving everyone's abilities- for example, press a rune high up the wall immediately after a magical shield is dispelled from it, then fight off a golem) to get out.

Ganurath
2008-03-09, 08:08 AM
Automatic reset mechanical traps. Make sure the casters are in front after the trap has been 'disarmed' by the summons.

Konig
2008-03-09, 11:23 AM
I prefer traps & trapbreaking to be a more creative endeavor. PCs with the detect/use traps skill get the advantage to spot things that don't match up, then the trap is something of a puzzle.

Punishing abuse of the strategy:
The animal inadvertently sets off a mechanical trap, something along the lines of Indiana Jones' rolling boulder.

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The 'trap' is akin to a see-saw - when someone stands on the far end, the ground falls, and the path behind them flips up, locking and blocking the path.

.
Well suited for an insanely intelligent enemy who's able to accurately guess the strategies employed against him - the trap corrupts extraplanar energies. Summoned monsters/animals that pass through are corrupted and turn against their master. Apply 1 or 2 of your favorite templates to the summoned creature & give the party an encounter that makes the party reconsider abusing this particular tactic.

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The trap is a dispelling effect. Right behind it is your favorite mean trap.

Traps that don't give a darn who sets them off, or can't be set off by a beast:
Locked door. About 5 feet away, at eye level, is a narrow hole in the wall, through which PCs can see a chain, crystal, doorknob, whatever.
Said object is covered in sovereign glue. Any PC to reach through and grab it is summarily stuck with his arm in a hole.

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PC's encounter a massive wheel/winch that seems to have no use. Right past it is a long uphill corridor which has a permanent grease effect cast on the walls, floor and ceiling. Pits have to be avoided as PCs make climb/balance checks to ascend. The door at the top isn't a door, but is, for lack of a better term, 'painted on'. Pulling on it brings the entire wall sliding down the greased corridor. The cinch retracts it, and one of the first pits is actually a tunnel that the intelligent dungeon residents use to advance in the dungeon.

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The stones on the floor are triggers that inspire a hail of arrows... not from the sides of the corridor, but from the back. Group members standing and watching are liable to get shot in the back. More often, too, because the animal may keep walking if not commanded to stop.

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The dungeon includes a large room with a series of pedestals. Above the pedestals are chains. Standing on a pedestal requires a balance check - success means the pedestal stays upright. Failure or getting off a pedestal means it falls over, possibly doing damage to those beneath or even knocking down some other pedestals in a domino effect. Crossing requires a PC to get on the pedestal and use the chain to help stay balanced, and allow other PCs to cross in a bizarre game of leapfrog (other inventive ideas are encouraged). Failure (or relying on an animal) means the pedestals fall and have to be restacked in the appropriate positions.

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The dungeon includes a floor with a series of chambers - twenty-five 10' x 10' rooms. Each room has 4 doors (N, E, S, W) that require someone to turn a wheel, lift the door and crawl through. (The door's weight causes it to close automatically). A creature without opposable thumbs or appropriate joints won't be able to open the doors. Sending a monkey through 'the grid' should quickly be met by a 'the wizard/druid/artificer feels the energies of his/her spell disrupt. The creature is likely dead.'

'The Grid' is patrolled by a group of blink dogs that hound and harass PCs attempting to navigate it. Perforations in the wall allow the blink dogs to track by scent, and their ability lets them bypass the walls & doors. The lingering smell of decaying victims let the blink dogs know which rooms are trapped and worth avoiding.

This is a fun, open ended trap to stick the PCs in & keeps them on their toes. There should be a fair bit of nervous energy when PCs can see 'something four legged pacing back and forth in two of the four surrounding rooms' - only to find nothing there when the door is opened. If they take too much time, nip at their heels some. Lone or lingering PCs are swarmed and dragged down.

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The Sinking Mines - Good way to get a change of pace & keep PCs from delaying too much. The expedition is a common low-level trip into a mine to exterminate some monsters. Traps are common but easily bypassed. When the PCs reach the final stage, they find themselves outdoors, on a ledge on the side of the mountain. To their left is a dam, and a rival/evil adventuring party, who summarily break the dam. The ~real~ adventure is navigating the mine as it quickly floods with water. Some traps become much more deadly, some corridors are impassable, and as PCs wade through waist deep water, they have to remember the way & where the now submerged traps were as they rush through.

Kurald Galain
2008-03-09, 12:03 PM
After the wizard has killed a dozen or so small elementals by ordering them to run into traps, have a BIG elemental appear and demand an explanation :smallwink:

Magnor Criol
2008-03-09, 12:19 PM
[snip snip various traps snip snip]
You, sir, are one delightfully nefarious individual.

Fhaolan
2008-03-09, 01:01 PM
I can think of two things right off the bat:

Remember that traps are very specific in purpose. Corridor traps are ususally there to slow down or stop people penetrating areas the owners don't want them to go. In which case these traps will have alarms of some kind to signal the owner that the trap has been triggered. Any intelligent creatures inhabiting the dungeon/castle/whatever, will have discovered this and set up shop wherever the alarms terminate. Setting off traps indiscriminately will either lead to the entire population of the dungeon converging on the party, or them discovering that the entire population has bugged out with all the loot.

Remember that summoned creatures are not robots under complete mental control. Pretty much the only things that summoned animals can trigger are weight-based or tripline-based traps, even if they are monkeys. While you can instruct a summoned animal to go specific directions, any creature with an animal intelligence will not be able to operate doorknobs or locks without a *lot* of coaching, using the Animal Handling rules for training tricks. Which will take longer than the spell durations, so that's a non-starter. And every time you call a summoned animal, it's a new animal starting fresh. It's not like you always get the same monkey. All this means that if summoning creatures is a reasonably common trick, it will be reasonably common to trap things that only intelligent, purposeful creatures will operate.

Chronos
2008-03-09, 01:44 PM
When the PCs reach the final stage, they find themselves outdoors, on a ledge on the side of the mountain. To their left is a dam, and a rival/evil adventuring party, who summarily break the dam.Why do I get the impression that the dam in question is Flood Control Dam #3?

Vortling
2008-03-09, 01:58 PM
Remember that traps are very specific in purpose. Corridor traps are ususally there to slow down or stop people penetrating areas the owners don't want them to go. In which case these traps will have alarms of some kind to signal the owner that the trap has been triggered. Any intelligent creatures inhabiting the dungeon/castle/whatever, will have discovered this and set up shop wherever the alarms terminate. Setting off traps indiscriminately will either lead to the entire population of the dungeon converging on the party, or them discovering that the entire population has bugged out with all the loot.


This. Also remember that if the monsters are intelligent enough they may have set up the trap themselves and have procedures to follow if the trap is set off. Alarm traps could also set off defenses like dropping gates, closing doors, or setting off a non-lethal but confusing/marking spell like glitterdust.

You can also use the rogue's skills to bypass the trap in more than one way. Perhaps the obvious way is alarmed, but there's a hidden way that the rogue can find or there's a deactivating switch past it that the rogue can use acrobatic skill to reach without setting off the trap.

MorkaisChosen
2008-03-09, 04:12 PM
AMF traps would be interesting, especially if that triggered a chain reaction- for example, the following setup...



__________________________________________________ ___
F C B A
__________________________________________________ ___

A, B and C are all anti-magic field traps- A is set to a pressure trap, while the others all have a magical trigger of some kind- possibly a heat sensor measuring the temperature of a piece of metal with a permanent Heat or Chill Metal on it. B is in the area of A for the metal but the trap goes off just outside; same for C. F is set off the same way as B and C, but isn't an AMF- it's something hitty like Fireball, Prismatic Sphere, or (if you're feeling evil) it's an AMF trap- beneath a permanently Polymorph Objected stone ceiling that was originally made of sand. Above the ceiling? Maybe a Gelatinous Cube or seven, or just a load of spikes, or some acid, or...

You get the idea.

Anon-a-mouse
2008-03-09, 05:07 PM
Without using any homebrew material at all you could do the following...

Use a detect spell (eg. detect good) as a trigger. The summoned beasty might not be of the right type to set it off.

Use a trap which affects the whole room/corridor (eg. crushing wall, falling ceiling, water-filled room). If they send a summoned beasty to set it off, not only are they still in danger but they are at the opposite end of the room to the trap mechanism, increasing the time it takes to disable the trap.

Or with homebrew traps...

Give the trap a % chance of not going off even if the conditions to trigger it are met. The summoned beasty might not set it off but the PCs still could.

Mark Hall
2008-03-09, 05:46 PM
Have the entire area be under a "Protection from Good" spell. Won't do a whole lot to the party... certainly not to the level of an AMF... but it does prevent people from summoning in extraplanar creatures.

Squash Monster
2008-03-09, 05:55 PM
Circle of Protection Against Good and Circle of Protection Against Evil can be thwarted by neutral-aligned creatures.

However, if you have a trap with Detect Good and Detect Evil as triggers, inside the circles of protection, only non-summoned, aligned creatures can trigger them.

Pironious
2008-03-09, 06:00 PM
Have the entire area be under a "Protection from Good" spell. Won't do a whole lot to the party... certainly not to the level of an AMF... but it does prevent people from summoning in extraplanar creatures.

The Dark Lord Pironious says:

Always remember to unhallow your evil temples.

GutterRunner
2008-03-09, 06:24 PM
Another idea for a trap you really don't want setting off, by an animal or anything:

When the trap is set off ask the group to take Listen Checks (DC 25 ish) to hear the sound of stone sliding on stone both infront and behind them. As they backtrack to find that they've been sealed in by a 10ft thick stone block, the corridor they are in starts to fill with sand. Takes half an hour to fill compleatly, make the trap create an anti magic field too if the group have acess to teleport. Reset time 1 week (then the sand drains out of holes in the floor and the stone blocks raise back into place).

osyluth
2008-03-09, 06:30 PM
You could just use less traps in your game. They've never struck me as much fun anyway.

Mark Hall
2008-03-09, 06:33 PM
Circle of Protection Against Good and Circle of Protection Against Evil can be thwarted by neutral-aligned creatures.

However, if you have a trap with Detect Good and Detect Evil as triggers, inside the circles of protection, only non-summoned, aligned creatures can trigger them.

No. They can be thwarted by opposite-aligned creatures (i.e. Prot Good can be thwarted by evil summons). I was thinking of 2nd edition again.

Oracle_Hunter
2008-03-10, 02:39 AM
Heh, in a game I'm playing in, we just have a cleric summon celestial monkeys to trip traps after they have been identified. And to trigger Soylent Green (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SoylentGreen)magical items when needed :smallbiggrin:

I think the best way to involve traps in a game is to make sure the players know there will be traps beforehand. Don't just throw them in randomly - make them a central part of the dungeon. And then design them intelligently; in addition to what has been said, any pressure plates should only trigger for sufficiently heavy people. Not only does this make your halfling rogue feel special, it forces your "summoner" to use higher level spells because they need something that weighs, oh 180 lbs or so.

Use lots of reasonable re-settable traps (think spinning blades from Last Crusade), or traps in conjunction for particularly important rooms (CON poison darts that also trigger sealing the room and a CON damage gas). This works well particularly if the first trap must be sprung to allow access to the rooms beyond, provided the second trap is disarmed in time.

Example
An altar room which protects the cult's treasure vault (big stone doors to the right of the altar). In order to open the doors, you must kneel on the pressure plate to reveal a locking mechanism in the base of the altar. Triggering the pressure plate causes a sword to swing out from behind the altar 5' above the ground (if you're kneeling, it automatically misses) and it seals the entry door. If pressure is removed from the plate, or the locking mechanism has not been turned within X rounds, poison gas fills the room (or water begins to pour from the ceiling). If the lock is turned, then the second trap is disarmed, the pressure plate is locked down for Y rounds, and the Vault door opens. Z rounds after the second trap has been triggered or disarmed, the whole room resets and the Vault door closes while the entry door opens

The trap above is both interesting (no "ho hum, another pit trap"), requires quick thinking, and cannot be circumvented by summoned creatures (unless the PCs are high enough level that they can summon telepathic, intelligent beings with lockpicking skills to handle this all).

Remember: use traps as a main course, not a side dish!

Irreverent Fool
2008-03-10, 04:14 AM
You, sir, are one delightfully nefarious individual.

I think 'The Grid' was in Traps and Treachery II. Good stuff though.

Farmer42
2008-03-10, 04:26 AM
Skill based traps are fun, too. Don't have that bladed pendulum trap fold into a corner. No, have it constantly swinging once set off. If the rogue had found it, it wouldn't be a problem. Now, s/he has to tumble past it, figure out which one of the secret, hidden panels contains the off switch, and avoid the second and third ones no one found out about because the first on killed the critter before it moved past.

random11
2008-03-10, 05:30 AM
You can make the traps work only on humans.

It doesn't even have to be magical, it can be set by the weight required for the trap, or by the height of the trigger wire.

Brauron
2008-03-10, 07:56 AM
So one of my players is currently playing a 4th-level sorceror, and this is the first time he's ever played a caster. Last night, having leveled up, he was looking through the list of spells in the PHB.

He made the comment, "Dude, Summon Monster I and II are so stupid, why would anyone take them?" (For those of you who read my "Massive Damage on a Charge" thread, this player is G -- I started them off at 3rd level)

Thinking of this thread, I commented, "Well, what if the rogue is unavailable and you need a hallway checked for traps?"

G says, "Oh man, that's brilliant! I'm so taking Summon Monster I now!"

Now to stat up a druid of a Celestial race...

Kami2awa
2008-03-10, 08:22 AM
Make the ocasional trap that targets a caster trying to do that. Sure, it's mean and nasty when that's the primary form of trapfinding, but if there's a rogue and he isn't getting a chance to shine, nuke the caster once or twice to remind him that there's a reason rogues exist. Also, try putting traps in that have instant reset times. The players will learn.

If that were the usually tactic to defeat traps, then trap designers would put in something to stop you doing it e.g. instant reset, magical traps that are not set off by summoned monsters, traps of such large area of effect that even if you use the monster as a blind probe you get hit anyway, antimagic fields, and if you want to be really nasty, traps that only affect magic-using characters.

Alternatively, fight fire with fire and have a summon monster trap of higher level than the monsters the PCs can summon (it should be anyway, since in general you can summon only lower-CR monsters than yourself). Summoned monster A triggers trap and brings in summoned monster B; B kills A quickly and attacks the party.

Farmer42
2008-03-10, 08:24 AM
I understand that, I was just giving some advice for how to remind the caster that trapfinding is the party rogue's job, not theirs.

random11
2008-03-10, 08:27 AM
Almost forgot the easiest solution:

Since the number of summoning is limited, many long, suspicious and empty corridors will prevent the misuse of summoning for trap detection.

For the same reason, fake traps (Spikes attached to the wall or the ceiling) that will be noticed to be fake only in an attempt to disarm, will prevent the misuse of summoning for disarming a "known" trap.

Konig
2008-03-10, 09:15 AM
I think 'The Grid' was in Traps and Treachery II. Good stuff though.

So that's where I spotted it. Couldn't remember if I dreamed it or if I was reading a sourcebook/post really late at night. Thanks for the referral.

sonofzeal
2008-03-10, 11:05 AM
Traps I used in a recent dungeoncrawl:


1) Pressure plate activates a fire trap inside a chest containing three scrolls and a key. Key's unharmed, but scrolls are toast.

2) Series of three resetting poison gas traps. A good jump will take you over the first sensor and straight into the second, and Summons will stop at the first. Yay Con damage!

3) Explosive Runes on a door. PCs can never resist reading text that's on a door.

4) Pit trap in the corners of a room with a sniper in an alcove set above the entrance. PCs start getting sniped from above and behind them (circumstance penalty on Spot), panic, and dive for cover wherever they can find it, which is either back through the door, or (tadaa) into the corners.

5) Rolling boulder trap after a long corridor. One trapper peeks around the corner holding a thread connected to the wedge keeping the boulder in place, while a second listens in the roof with many bags of caltrops. PCs get to the stairs, first guy pulls the chord, ball starts rolling. PCs turn to flee, but now have a sea of caltrops between them and the only visible cover. As an added touch, the boulder was covered in lamp oil, and strikes sparks against the stairs on its way down.



None of the five are easily bypassed by summoned animals, and the two most deadly are triggered, not by a mechanism or magic, but by a sentient mind. This provides a much wider degree of DM control over what goes on, because sentients can use their judgment and let animals past, or trigger when they hear invisible footsteps. This also allows for clever thinking on the part of mages, with illusions of various kinds, but as long as players are being intelligent and not just resorting to the same cheese each time then I think my work is done.

MorkaisChosen
2008-03-10, 01:54 PM
I'm planning a scene where the party chase a rogue//wizard through some sewers to get the Shiny Magic Thing back off him. There will be, of course, "I prepared Explosive Runes this morning." (I know at least one of the group will get the reference.)

Another possibility is a variation on that old favourite, the pit trap- a HUGE pit that opens up if triggered, and is then very difficult to cross.

Others? Well, not exactly a trap, but mimics are funny. In fact, a room where you have to choose one of several chests (maybe with a bug turning cage, so you can only reach one of them at a time and it locks when you open the gate and make your selection). You have a choice of 3 or 4- one contains treasure, the rest are Mimics...

TheThan
2008-03-11, 01:08 AM
this thread reminds me of this (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0036.html)

Greyen
2008-03-11, 06:49 AM
Easy trap to fix this...

PC's know that Loot is at the other end of a corridor. Center of corridor is an alarm that triggers the two walls to slide inward and crush whatever is inbetween them. Now hall way is blocked.

Dim. Door to other end? Sure, roll a new character...now the other end is now filled with ??? (poison gas/acid/water and no escape route/gelatinous cube/Ochre jelly/black pudding/fire/something nasty).

Another one.
Also a baited trap. Loot at other end of hallway/room. Chest sitting in a teleport circle. Trap is triggered by animal chest is teleported away. Single use only please. Players are now pissed that they sent their hard earned goodies on a random trip to ????.

I used this one to great effect multiple times in a dungeon where the PC's had to collect item X. Item X is teleported around the dungeon, 25 of 70 or so rooms in the multilevel dungeon had these traps in them. A went to B, B went to C, C went to D, and so on. The players finally were able to clear the dungeon and slowly destroyed all of the circles till it the teleport cycle could no longer function. Frustrating but fun times.

strayth
2008-03-11, 10:27 AM
My friend's 6th level barbarian almost died trying to catch a monkey. We rolled on the floor much more than dice that day.

Mauril Everleaf
2008-03-11, 10:57 AM
I am a big fan of traps, and the above listed ideas are great, but I'm going to suggest an alternative. All the traps leading up the the final treasure are really only there to stop intruders which are lower level than the PCs. This is either because the DM has designed a dungeon the PCs can handle, or because the PCs have chosen to wait until they are appropriate level to handle a dungeon. Traps are to keep the low level mooks out that the guardian of the dungeon doesn't want to waste his time dealing with. So how my DM made it reasonable for our party to stop for these traps and disarm them, was to award a little bit of experience to all parties involved in their disarming (should any skill or ingenuity be required). We got no experiece for a Barbarian charging down the hall and absorbing all the arrows, but we did get some Exp if that same Barbarian helped hoist our Rogue up so that she could reach the trap (which was well out of the halfling's reach).

Our DM also made sure to use very complicated traps for the final loot, ones which often would destroy any non-critical element if triggered. Like mentioned earlier with the fire trap scorching the scrolls but not harming the key. We would always get something like that for the final item. Also, we have to use several party members to successfully disarm this final trap. Opening the door to the final treasure room without the appropriate item present (some sort of ring or necklace or something) usually resulted in an alarm and summoning. Then the trap would require a delicate touch to deactivate, or to even trigger, and the trap had to be triggered or deactivated to reach the prize.

I remember one trap where the treasure room was over a stereotypical pit of lava (the was the final room of one of the mid-level baddies), and over a chasm from the door. We go through the door and stand on the ledge. Wizard has to cast Fly (or something) to get the Rogue to the other side of the chasm. Rogue lands and springs the alarm, so the rest of the party has to deal with the incoming monsters, while the rogue has to pick the lock on a glassteel (this may have been a DM invented substance that was clear but impenetrable) case to grab the gem we needed. Rogue then had to be hauled across the chasm by a rope pulled by various other party members. (The chest was set to dispell magic on touch.)

Another thing my DM would do, would be to always ask us about our actions, which eventually made us a little paranoid about things. We assumed all important doors, floors, walls, pillars, steps or anything between us and the reason we were in a dungeon, were somehow trapped. Often he would ask, "So who opened the door? Roll for [certain amount and type of dice] for damage. [pause while player rolls and counts] You take none. I was just screwing with you." This may sound annoying to you, but we were always grateful for this bit of paranoia when our rogue would find a friendish trap in a place we likely would not have thought to look if we were just blissfully summoning monkeys.

Despite what some posters would have you think, players often like a challenge. The intelligent ones want to have a puzzle or riddle to figure out, or a complex solution. Makes walking in dank corridors for hours seem a little more worthwhile.

Brauron
2008-03-11, 12:29 PM
My favorite trap works wonders solely because I live with all the people who play in my game, and one of them is a rampant metagamer.


I just leave a Monster Manual open to a monster three or four CRs higher then the ECL of the party.

I let their imaginations do the rest.

Megafly
2008-03-11, 05:53 PM
you could simply make a trap that absorbs spells and returns them back as magical attacks.

Smiley_
2008-03-11, 06:25 PM
Something akin to this happens in the games that I play in, but instead of a summoned beastie, the party sends my character, the party barbarian with 280 hit points, good reflex and fortitude saves, and trap sense sprinting through the dungeon to see what turns up. The worst that happened was a series of feeblemind traps that, while not fatal, took a week to wear off.

Good times.

However, what usually ends up happening is an explosion with cries of "Heeeealiiing!" coming from down the hall, and we decided a divine caster would be necessary to reduce the money spent on wands of cure serious wounds.

Anyway, back to the traps. Make the trap itself an intelligent object. with specific orders against triggering itself against summoned creatures.

spastictart
2008-03-13, 10:32 AM
Ok, I've basically lost all respect for traps seeing as how they are so easily rendered useless. Normal scenario for my group; *looking down a corridor* (Rogue) I wonder if there are any traps? (Druid/Wizard/Archivist) Let's find out *summon monster* BOOOM! (Druid/Wizard/Archivist) I guess there were. (Rogue) *Sits in the corner and cries.* Is there anything I can do to change this?


Hmm, seeing as I am the rogue in said encounter, I dont recall any crying. And D/W/A defends his actions saying he sent the monkley down to avoid weight based traps aimed for humanoids...

Quit trying to kill our characters and we wont thwart you.:smallbiggrin: