Is Celia a Mary Sue?

[Eakin]

Before you guys lynch me, just hear me out on this one. :smalleek:

The idea's been percolating in my hear since #531, where Celia gets her moment to rhetorically kick Haley's butt. That in and of itself isn't Mary Sue-ish, but Roy's ghost hovering in the background giving commentary about what great points she was making gave me the impression that rather than trusting the character to be likable on her own Rich was telling me that I should like her because Roy does. Besides, consider some of the evidence:

-She apparently has an assortment of super-senses that normal humans don't, and shoots lightning from her hands at will.
-She can fly
-She has spell casting powers, which is hardly unique even among the other Order members, except that she doesn't have to work for them (like V does) or follow any particular lifestyle to maintain favor with a higher power (like Durkon does)
-She's slept with the hero of the story
-As seen in 537, she holds herself to a higher moral standard than our other PCs, and when they confront her about it she brings them around to her way of thinking within a few panels (admittedly, for reasons that are in character for Haley if not Belkar. And Belkar got to kill somebody anyway.)
-Her eyes change color (See 529)

I'm not saying that Celia isn't a good character, or that Rich isn't a good enough writer to make her as interesting as most Sues are annoying, but am I way off in seeing a dangerous trend forming in the last 8 strips? Or am I missing even more evidence of Sue-ness elsewhere?

[Ashes]

What does her eyes changing colour have to do with anything?

[SilentNight]

I like her on her own. Probably because I'm a smart-ass, possibly future lawyer myself. Also, who's Mary-Sue?

[Surfing HalfOrc]

I know I could Wiki it, but what is a Mary Sue?

I was neutral towards Celia back at the Dungeon of Dorukan, but started liking her during the trial. I like her more NOW, but it's not because Rich is "forcing" me.

Even though she has more powers than "normal humans," Celia isn't that overpowered compared to the rest of the spellcasters in the OotS. Sometimes it's the effeciency of the character...

Elan is MUCH more powerful than he acts, he just never thinks about what spell he should use, or even WHEN to use spells. He tends to buff the others, then stand back, letting the muscle do the heavy fighting, and the spell slingers hit hard with the Arcane and Divine Magics.

It seems like only Haley is really optomized, while Roy runs a close second. The rest are as rag-tag as you need to take down a deady lich. :smallbiggrin:

EDIT: After reading the Wiki link below, I'm both able to see things from the OP's point of view, but continue to disagree with his assessment.

While Celia has powers, nothing she has done has been newly created for this sequence. We knew she was mostly innocent, with swiping office supplies highest on her mischief list. Then she went to Law School, where she improved her Bluff and Sense Motive skills, but she hasn't had the time to add very many "pluses" to her skills.

So far, if she is a Mary Sue, she's not very good at it. Pretty? Yes, let's not hold that against her.

Powers? Sure, but also nothing overwhelming. She mentions that she doesn't have any necromancer spells, which would have been useful.

Disguise Skills? Um, she's a girl. I have four sisters, and all four know about make up. So the plan to disguise Haley and Belkar isn't that far fetched.

Young? Not really... She's in the range of the younger members, but she is older than Elan, maybe a year younger than Haley.

So... Overpowered, oversexy and underage? The three standard requirements for a Mary Sue? Celia meets one, maybe two. But she doesn't have the hat trick to qualify as a MS.

Good debate topic though... I would be willing to listen to any other comments on this subject.

[Green Bean]

I like her on her own. Probably because I'm a smart-ass, possibly future lawyer myself. Also, who's Mary-Sue?

Check here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Sue) for more information. And honestly, I disagree, especially about the eye complaint. Isn't that something that happens with all the spellcasters?

[Ashes]

It seems like only Haley is really optomized, while Roy runs a close second. The rest are as rag-tag as you need to take down a deady lich. :smallbiggrin:

Haley isn't really optimized though. A bow-wielding Rogue will never be, unless you add some Scout.

[ShellBullet]

I wouldn't call her mary sue...

First of all she isn't human, so those abilities that you mentioned are also possessed by other members of her race. She has displayed also displayed number of times her lack of knowledge about human. Celia also wouldn't been able to make resistance to work as one without scruffy....

[Alfryd]

Roy's a straight fighter. That's automatically non-optimised. There have some complaints about haley's insistence on archery specialisation, which denies her many uses of Sneak Attack.

As for Celia, 537/538 have finally convinced me to not long for her agonising demise. God damn you Rich.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Sue

"...Another definition of Mary-Sue is a character who is too perfect to be true, i. e. one with too many positive character traits compared to actual character flaws, or being remarkably attractive in comparison to the other characters. ...they are too ostentatious for the audience's taste, or that the author seems to favor the character too highly. ...kind of an "author's pet" effect."

Yeah, little bit.

[SilentNight]

So it's a deus ex machina/author dream project shoved into a humanoid body? Thanks to h_v for the info. Back to the OP, Celia is not a Mary Sue. She is cool but not overly so and she is as much a DEM as any other helpful NPC in OOTS, namely Capitan Julio. I didn't feel like she was thrust on us. Like my first post said, I quite like her.

[FoE]

For an excellent parody of "Mary Sue" fiction (which can be defined simply as a perfect character and serves as a vicarious thrill for the author), check out this Girl Genius short story:

http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20051212

"They change colour."

Now, to your argument. While Celia has some Mary Sue-ish characteristics, I think her absolute cluelessness about humans definitely undercuts that argument. Plus, none of her plans thus far have worked out the way she figured.

[Korota]

I don't think so, no. Mary Sues are usually wish-fulfillment characters that border on self-insertion, and have unjustified powers and whatnot. Celia's an outsider, so she's got justification(outsiders being ridiculously powerful in most cases), and she isn't doing much wish-fulfilling for the author. At most, she's an example of an NPC who overshadows the PCs. Which, while annoying at times, isn't the same thins as a Mary Sue.

[bluewind95]

Before you guys lynch me, just hear me out on this one. :smalleek:

Okay. *hides lynching tools* :smalltongue:



The idea's been percolating in my hear since #531, where Celia gets her moment to rhetorically kick Haley's butt. That in and of itself isn't Mary Sue-ish, but Roy's ghost hovering in the background giving commentary about what great points she was making gave me the impression that rather than trusting the character to be likable on her own Rich was telling me that I should like her because Roy does.


Hmm.... I've just re-read #531, and no, it doesn't seem to me that Roy is mentioning anything about liking Celia. About all he does is go "Oooo, boy" or "Damn", when she makes a rather harsh point, but I feel that's in character, seeing as to how Roy likes to make harsh points himself. And while he's smiling, I saw that more as a "YES! SOMEONE IS MAKING HALEY MOVE OUT OF THE BLOCKED SCRYING!" than an "I like Celia!". Then I read #532, and he doesn't mention anything about liking Celia there either. He's just frustrated about epic-level ignorance there. He only gets one line, non-Celia-related in #533. In #534, his lines are all about the fortune teller. And then he leaves.



-She apparently has an assortment of super-senses that normal humans don't, and shoots lightning from her hands at will.
I actually think this is a very, very good thing. Celia is not human. There's no reason to have her be a human in all her senses. Having her sense things like magic is fitting for a magic-oriented race. Now... if Celia were a human and had these senses... then it wouldn't be fitting at all. But she's a sylph, so it's reasonable she'll be different than a human. As for shooting lightning from her hands at will... again, not being a human, but rather an air-based creature gives her this ability. I think it's okay, since it's well-justified (I mean... taking it away is kind of like taking a dragon's fire breath away. It's part of the creature).


-She can fly

That is, after all, not a unique thing in the OotS-verse. All winged beings that have been seen in this comic can fly. Even some that don't have wings have shown the ability to fly (Xykon, I believe). It's only really Marysue-ish when it's a very, very unique thing, to add "uniqueness" to a character. A lot of what makes a Mary Sue is precisely that: the intent. If something is added to a single character to make that character "unique", "powerful" and "likeable", then you're walking a fine line.



-She has spell casting powers, which is hardly unique even among the other Order members, except that she doesn't have to work for them (like V does) or follow any particular lifestyle to maintain favor with a higher power (like Durkon does)

I may be wrong.. but I think there is a class (Sorcerer) that gets spells, not by learning them like a wizard... or by having favour of the deities (like a cleric), but just because there's some sort of "magic" in their blood. Their powers would spontaneously manifest, instead of them learning them. I think Xykon, a sorcerer, would fall under this category? That... powerful as he is, he didn't work all that much to have the powers he has?


-She's slept with the hero of the story
True. But does that make any love interest of the protagonist a Mary Sue? :smalltongue: Of course... if everyone wanted to sleep with her... we'd have quite a problem with Marysueness, in all probability.



-As seen in 537, she holds herself to a higher moral standard than our other PCs, and when they confront her about it she brings them around to her way of thinking within a few panels (admittedly, for reasons that are in character for Haley if not Belkar. And Belkar got to kill somebody anyway.)

While that was arrogance, that doesn't quite fit into full Mary Sue territory. Basically... her first complaint is that she wouldn't be able to kill 10 hobgoblins. And when she reminds Haley of the Resistance, it's quite in-character for her to agree. Belkar? He is kind of left without a choice. I think even he will agree that 30 hobgoblins is too much if the other people can spitefully (because he is putting the Resistance into huge peril) simply take Roy's corpse away while he's fighting and trigger the mark of justice. Belkar, really, doesn't get much of a choice but to obey the rest of the group.



-Her eyes change color (See 529)


I think her eyes glow blue when she casts spells. This is probably the closest Rich gets to walking the Mary Sue line, but then again... it also serves as a way to differentiate Celia further from a human. We might give the writer a break with this one. :smallwink:



I'm not saying that Celia isn't a good character, or that Rich isn't a good enough writer to make her as interesting as most Sues are annoying, but am I way off in seeing a dangerous trend forming in the last 8 strips? Or am I missing even more evidence of Sue-ness elsewhere?

You raise valid points, but I think your Sue-larm went off a bit too early. That's just my opinion, however.

[FujinAkari]

Not at all. While she has been a likeable character, she has proved herself unsuitable to do anything except motivate the PCs, while Mary Sues can solve problems by themselves.

[Alfryd]

Not at all. While she has been a likeable character, she has proved herself unsuitable to do anything except motivate the PCs, while Mary Sues can solve problems by themselves.
Define how 538 was not solving the problem herself?

[batsofchaos]

Most of the points have been debunked in ways that I agree with. The only point I'd like to make is in regards to the moral high-ground argument.

First off Celia is not an adventurer. She's a student training to be a lawyer. She's powerful enough to take care of herself in most situations, but she does not actively seek those situations out, like Hayley, Miko, Sabine, Lien, and Hilgya did (these are the strong female characters in the strip besides Celia, if I missed any, sorry). They all chose to be adventurers, while Celia has chosen to be a lawyer. Therefore, her moral compass is skewed to that of a civilian. That is all.

[Demented]

Define how 538 was not solving the problem herself?

Belkar finished the job she was about to royally screw up.
Exactly via the method she was trying to avoid, no less.

That's just the tip of the iceberg on the whole Belkar is a Marvin Sue argument, by the way. Or is it Marty Sue? Anyway, when was the last time Belkar failed at something? Well, aside from diplomacy checks and every will save he's ever encountered....

[FoE]

Setting the bandit camp on fire wasn't the best of strategies. And letting himself get killed by Miko was, as V pointed out, a pretty dumb plan, since it hinged on his party being able to resurrect him. (Which they might not have.)

In any case, being infallible is only one trait of a Marty Stu/Mary Sue; they are also wonderful people whose very presence lifts our spirits. Belkar is a pretty flawed person. He couldn't get laid without paying a girl if his life depended on it, and the vast majority of people he meets despise him. Belkar can't even get his head around the notion that other people have the right not to get stabbed by him, which is definitely not a common Marty Stu characteristic.

[Guancyto]

One of the bigger traits of the Mary Sue/Gary Stu is even if they aren't doing everything ever at all times, they're always important to what's going on.

If you see a character continually marginalized, chances are they aren't one. Celia has to force Haley to go with her plan, the negotiators ignore her completely and let's not forget that despite evidence and speeches, the trial she won was rigged from the start. Failure is one thing. "Might as well not be there?"

That never, ever, ever happens to a Mary Sue.

[teratorn]

I'm not saying that Celia isn't a good character, or that Rich isn't a good enough writer to make her as interesting as most Sues are annoying, but am I way off in seeing a dangerous trend forming in the last 8 strips? Or am I missing even more evidence of Sue-ness elsewhere?

No, you are right, Celia is indeed to good to be true, in a Mary Sue kind of way. But I think there is a purpose to it. We already had a good aligned character traveling with Belkar and becoming insane. But that character had no problems with killing per se. Celia is even further out in the goodness spectrum -- for her even Haley is doing misdeeds. I wonder when she'll crack. I can't avoid thinking about the angel in Belkar's conscience...

[Eakin]

OK, you guys have more or less assuaged my fears. I'm still going to keep an eye our for something like this to develop in the future with Celia, but I guess the current level of goodness is acceptable as long as it doesn't turn out she can miraculously hold her own in an appropriate level encounter for H+B or something ridiculous like that. Besides, the Giant is good at what he does. I'm sure we'll see some sort of Fatal Flaw (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FatalFlaw) or other character shortcoming emerge as time goes on.

[Demented]

Setting the bandit camp on fire wasn't the best of strategies. And letting himself get killed by Miko was, as V pointed out, a pretty dumb plan, since it hinged on his party being able to resurrect him. (Which they might not have.)
More importantly, he succeeded in setting a tent on fire* and getting Miko really pissed at him. :smallbiggrin:

A better example is his track record against Windstriker.

*Admittedly, as a distraction it served more to distract the bandits from their evening meal than from Haley's rescue attempt.

[Behold_the_Void]

Really, what Celia is is an NPC designed to move a plot out of stasis.

[factotum]

I'm sure we'll see some sort of Fatal Flaw (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FatalFlaw) or other character shortcoming emerge as time goes on.

Back in Dorukan's Dungeon Zz'dtri didn't have any problem turning her into stone...you wouldn't call that a flaw?

[fractal]

Really, what Celia is is an NPC designed to move a plot out of stasis.
Good point. I picture a DM, frustrated that after multiple sessions, the players of Haley and Belkar STILL haven't figured out his nifty Cloister spell idea. Having the party split up is getting old, so he says, "The amulet you took from Roy's body suddenly shocks you."

[pendell]

I do not believe Celia is a Mary Sue. She is a plot hammer.

She hasn't actually *done* anything for the characters except A) fly Nale and company to jail B) defend them at trial and C) kick Haley in the behind to get them moving out of the city.

These actions and abilities are entirely within her defined abilities as a sylph with legal training. She doesn't solve all their problems, and she's not over-powered compared to the others. In fact, she needlessly endangered their lives in the last strip by attempting to avoid an encounter Haley and Belkar could have easily won with an unnecessarily complicated scheme to deceive the hobgoblins.

She's also demonstrated a startling lack of knowledge about humans, in that they can't shoot lightning out of their fingertips etc.

She's a DMPC acting as a plot hammer, and I expect to see her disappear once the OOTS is back together. At present she is filling a magic-user slot in the party, but she is low-level compared to V and is moreover all too pacifistic to do well as an adventurer.

Besides, she's inconsistent. Just a few panels ago she encouraged Haley to gain treasure by killing wandering monsters who would throw themselves in front of Haley's weapons. Then, when they encounter a pack of 30 such creatures, she suddenly can't abide it. Double-standard, anyone?

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[JoeHills]

Good point. I picture a DM, frustrated that after multiple sessions, the players of Haley and Belkar STILL haven't figured out his nifty Cloister spell idea. Having the party split up is getting old, so he says, "The amulet you took from Roy's body suddenly shocks you."

That's a great point. It just makes sense for a DM to throw in an NPC occasionally to assuage players' persistent fears that if they tried to leave the city, even by the safest route available, they'd all die. Since the NPCs in OOTS are written as though there was a DM controlling them, this is definitely more a case of expedience than wish-fulfillment or self-insertion.

[Niknokitueu]

I can't avoid thinking about the angel in Belkar's conscience...
Belkar does not have an angel in his conscience.
On one metaphorical shoulder sits a nasty little devil.
On the other sits an even nastier little devil.

Have Fun!
Niknokitueu

[pasko77]

Too early.
In twenty strips or so, her role will be clearer.

[Semidi]

Aside from her being a plot catalyst, I think one could make the case that she's part of the commentary about D&D that the creator throws in every now and then. As she gets things done without resorting to stabbing things; this is quite the opposite of my experience with D&D groups and The Order as well.

As well for flaws: how about her total lack of combat ability? Of her "overpowered" spells that we've seen--correct me if I'm wrong, but they're all just low level utility spells. She's meant to be sexy yes (as sexy as a stick figure can be...), but the same could be said of many of the female characters in the strip. Really, I can't think of a reoccurring female character who isn't attractive (correct me if I'm wrong), which is also a staple of D&D.

[NerfTW]

Since the NPCs in OOTS are written as though there was a DM controlling them, this is definitely more a case of expedience than wish-fulfillment or self-insertion.

No they aren't. There is no DM.


Also, on the topic of the thread, Celia is not a Mary Sue, she's a replacement for Roy and Varsuvius's common sense, to keep two of the less forward thinking characters from doing anything stupid, and to give them a magic user.

[Indon]

A Mary Sue would have saved Roy. Roy is dead now. Ergo, there are no Mary-Sues in OOTS.

[Lissibith]

For fatal flaws, I'd count trying to interact with humans without having even some real basic knowledge of them pretty flaw-ish. She's very herself-centric in a sense, which I think is awesome. I mean, I get the feeling she's only helping get the Order out of the city so she can get Roy back. Otherwise, I don't see her caring a whole lot. And despite dating a human, she has no idea what their abilities and limitations are? I think if I were going in for interspecies dating, I'd read up, but she just looks at humans in terms of what SHE thinks is normal, not what's normal for them. That herself-centeredness has backfired on her before, and could again if she stays pertinent enough to the plot to stick around. (Heh heh)

But in general, no. She's not a Mary Sue. When you encounter a Mary Sue, you KNOW. Everyone loves them. Even their enemies respect them. The world magically works out for her benefit. She can do no wrong and nothing truly bad happens to her. Celia actually makes sense in her personality and race in everything she does.

[Alfryd]

Belkar finished the job she was about to royally screw up.
Exactly via the method she was trying to avoid, no less.
You mean slaughtering the entire garrison? Look, you can claim that Celia's not perfect, but she's probably up there with Hinjo in terms of lacking significant character flaws.

[Quorothorn]

Really, what Celia is is an NPC designed to move a plot out of stasis.

Um, what plot stasis do you speak of?

In all seriousness, I really don't see why some people thought that OotS was somehow "stalled" or that there were "filler" strips: I can't think of a single strip I would term filler.

Well, except the movie theatre commercial one. But that was too durn funny to miss.

Edit: Also, whilst I can definitely see how people could get the impression that Celia treads on MS territory, I'm inclined to agree with Lissibith: when you come across a Mary Sue, at least in FF, there's no mistaking it. Where it gets tricky is when the character in question is canonical, which again is why I can see the OP's wariness. But really, she might be no more than 4th level and knows shockingly little about humans considering she's apparently fairly regularly on the Material Plane.

[Saph]

But in general, no. She's not a Mary Sue. When you encounter a Mary Sue, you KNOW. Everyone loves them. Even their enemies respect them. The world magically works out for her benefit. She can do no wrong and nothing truly bad happens to her.

Yep. I mean, Celia's first appearance involved her getting petrified within the same strip she showed up in. That's pretty strong evidence against.

She's also nowhere near powerful enough. A true Mary Sue would by this point have destroyed Xykon, raised Roy from the dead, altered the flow of time to prevent the fall of Azure City, convinced Redcloak to give up his quest for vengance against humans, and gotten him to fall in love with her in the process.

- Saph

[ShellBullet]

She's also nowhere near powerful enough. A true Mary Sue would by this point have destroyed Xykon, raised Roy from the dead, altered the flow of time to prevent the fall of Azure City, convinced Redcloak to give up his quest for vengance against humans, and gotten him to fall in love with her in the process.

You forgot, that she would most likely talked with gods to make better place for goblinoids and other humanoids and make Thor stop his drinking...Not to mention, she would be first one to let Mitd out of his shadow...

[Demented]

...And learn V's gender, redeem Belkar, defeat Nale once and for all...


You mean slaughtering the entire garrison? Look, you can claim that Celia's not perfect, but she's probably up there with Hinjo in terms of lacking significant character flaws.

I mean her immediate objection to "murder", quite clearly. You know full well my case is well-rested. :smallbiggrin:

Also, I'm not that hungry for red herring. But thanks for asking!

[LurkerInPlayground]

Before you guys lynch me, just hear me out on this one. :smalleek:

The idea's been percolating in my hear since #531, where Celia gets her moment to rhetorically kick Haley's butt. That in and of itself isn't Mary Sue-ish, but Roy's ghost hovering in the background giving commentary about what great points she was making gave me the impression that rather than trusting the character to be likable on her own Rich was telling me that I should like her because Roy does. Besides, consider some of the evidence:

-She apparently has an assortment of super-senses that normal humans don't, and shoots lightning from her hands at will.
-She can fly
-She has spell casting powers, which is hardly unique even among the other Order members, except that she doesn't have to work for them (like V does) or follow any particular lifestyle to maintain favor with a higher power (like Durkon does)
-She's slept with the hero of the story
-As seen in 537, she holds herself to a higher moral standard than our other PCs, and when they confront her about it she brings them around to her way of thinking within a few panels (admittedly, for reasons that are in character for Haley if not Belkar. And Belkar got to kill somebody anyway.)
-Her eyes change color (See 529)

I'm not saying that Celia isn't a good character, or that Rich isn't a good enough writer to make her as interesting as most Sues are annoying, but am I way off in seeing a dangerous trend forming in the last 8 strips? Or am I missing even more evidence of Sue-ness elsewhere?
With what you've said, she might be a parody of a Mary Sue character that just happens to be played straight. Is she Rich's self-insertion character? I highly doubt it.

I also debate whether her moral standards are necessarily "higher." For the most part, she's just a teenager going through college who is just now getting over the feeling that she is a deadbeat failure in life.

For those not in the know: Mary Sue characters are basically self-insertion characters who have a tendency to be perfect in every way and have all the good dramatic bits in the story. They are very often wish-fufillment characters by the author.

The stereotype, of course, is that Mary Sue characters can be so over-embellished and over-written that they pass the boundaries of good taste. It is often mocked and derided as an example of bad writing.

[Mr._Michael]

Don't you listen to them! Celia is perfect! Being turned to stone while employed as a guardian and stealing office supplies... losing her boyfriend to a Dryad... getting the short straw to try a fixed case as a law student... dating a meat-shield and getting drawn into bug-zappers... not knowing about simple human traits and wearing pink, red, and maroon all at the same time are just opportunities to develop her Character.

She's no MarySue, not with this many little flaws and more to come. But I'm still a Celia Fan! :smallbiggrin:

[The Vanishing Hitchhiker]

I think she's just your run-of-the-mill DM-controlled NPC. She's no more of a Mary Sue than Eugene (though he has done some major plot meddling himself).

Now yes, she's this winged awesome goodness thing from the planes of whereever, and has crazy winged thing powers. These two things justify each other, not to mention her previous employment. Had she been a human, now, working in a dungeon built around a thing that can destroy the universe, who can sense Cloister spells and zap junk...yeah, then we could call her a Mary Sue. Otherwise, eh, not so much.

[Saco de Carne]

Again, its art...not science.

[brilliantlight]

Besides, she's inconsistent. Just a few panels ago she encouraged Haley to gain treasure by killing wandering monsters who would throw themselves in front of Haley's weapons. Then, when they encounter a pack of 30 such creatures, she suddenly can't abide it. Double-standard, anyone?

Respectfully,

Brian P.

That is a good point.

[Roderick_BR]

Is she Rich's self-insertion character? I highly doubt it.
Unless Rich wants to say he's a fairy.

But really, why people is bothering with the "high moral"?
"Let's kill it and call it a day" IS pretty much an adventurer's typical response.
As a non-adventurer (even if she does have a couple sorcerer level as some are theorizing), she doesn't take killing others as a everyday routine. Simple.

[LtNOWIS]

Belkar does not have an angel in his conscience.
On one metaphorical shoulder sits a nasty little devil.
On the other sits an even nastier little devil.

Have Fun!
Niknokitueu

Er, they mean the angel that Belkar did have, but went crazy because of all the killing.


You mean slaughtering the entire garrison? Look, you can claim that Celia's not perfect, but she's probably up there with Hinjo in terms of lacking significant character flaws.
Hinjo's character flaw is overconfidence; namely, almost getting the boat sunk by trying to take out Redcloak. He got a flak for that on the forums, as it was a pretty dumb move.

[Saco de Carne]

Besides, she's inconsistent. Just a few panels ago she encouraged Haley to gain treasure by killing wandering monsters who would throw themselves in front of Haley's weapons. Then, when they encounter a pack of 30 such creatures, she suddenly can't abide it. Double-standard, anyone?

Respectfully,

Brian P.

She is just a lawyer, being inconsistent is part of the job :smallwink: