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Frosty
2008-03-11, 01:24 AM
If you've got a gestalt human cleric/sorcerer starting play at level 9, what spells would you pick for the sorcerer side? Offense isn't a *huge* concern for me because this character prefers to buff and de-buff, and heal lots. I'll probably pick up Displacement, Haste, and I'm not sure if Greater Mage armor is worth a spell known. No clue on first and second level spells. Got the Sun and Healing domains going for story reasons and I won't be changing that (definitely worships Pelor). 4th level spells will most likely include Otiluke's Resilient Sphere...and for the second spell will be Enervation or Dimension Door. Bah...stupid sorcerers getting so few spells...

Nebo_
2008-03-11, 02:29 AM
What level sorcerer are you? EDIT: Never mind, I didn't see the gestalt.

Heroics is nice.

Squash Monster
2008-03-11, 03:01 AM
One or both of Benign Transposition or Baleful Transposition is required for a helpful mage. I'd probably take Baleful, since you can drop your rogue behind enemy lines with it and whatnot.

Nauseating Cloud, because even if you're a buff machine you should be able to protect your party from enemy casters. Glitterdust too, if you want to be thorough.

Some form of invisibility spell is always important. Fly to a lesser extend, but it's big too.

Finally: consider going into the War Weaver prestige class. It's great for buffers, and even greater for gestalt ones.

Frosty
2008-03-11, 10:29 AM
Where are most of these spells from? Glitterdust is from PHB of course. I do not believe we have a rogue. We do have a Swashbuckler. I'm also not the only mage in the group, but I have no idea what the other mage will pack in terms of spells. My cleric side has air-walk, but I probably have better things to prepare than airwalk.

Squash Monster
2008-03-11, 11:37 AM
The transposition spells are from Players Handbook II. And yeah, doesn't need to be the rogue, it's still awesome.

Nauseating Cloud doesn't exist. Sorry, I meant to either say Stinking Cloud (core) or Cloud of Bewilderment (SPC). The latter is the same thing but lower level and smaller size. I'd probably take Cloud of Bewilderment unless you typically run into a lot of arcane casters.

Fly and invisibility are both really good, I'd get one of each in if you have any room. They both solve problems (physical obstacles or stealth), and they both are great ways to remove people (often yourself) from harm's way.

The War Weaver prestige class is in Heroes of Battle.

Frosty
2008-03-11, 01:00 PM
I'll probably run out of level 3 spell slots before I can Fly everyone. We've got like 8 things in the party. Granted, one of them can naturally fly already but still...

Stinking cloud rocks against casters definitely, although I really prefer debuffs without saves, since his save DCs aren't that hot (only 19 for 4th level spells). But what's a good area debuff without save? Evard's Tentacles I guess...but FoM would take care of that.

BTW, what does Cloud of Bewilder do?

Rowan Intheback
2008-03-11, 01:46 PM
Wings of cover: It's a second level sorcerer spell from Races of the Dragon p. 111. It's cast as an immediate action, it basically says "no" whenever someone attacks you. It gives you total cover so you can't be targeted. Any physical attack will miss you. Certain gods could attack you and with this broke as heck spell and they couldn't take their first attack. This works on spells too. If you're hit by an AOE it gives you +8 to refelx.

I know you didn't ask for feats but Versatile Spellcaster from the same book is amazing you can trade up two lower level spell slots for one higher level spell slot. For instance two third = one fourth. Amazing.

Have fun.

CASTLEMIKE
2008-03-11, 02:11 PM
What about a generic wisdom based "Spell caster" variant instead of a sorcerer for SAD and choice of spells from all spell lists without needing to worry about ASF and picking up a few bonus feats at level 1,5 and 10. My understanding is the variant is legal to use in gestalt.

No need for Greater Mage Armor and can choose a nice mix of spells some of which might include:

Arcane Mark, Dancing Lights, Detect Magic, Mage Hand, Message, Prestidigitation, Read Magic

Alarm, Color Spray, Fast Healing 1, Grease, Lesser Restoration (Pal), Ray of Enfeeblement, Shield, Silent Image

Alter Self if desired, Invisibility, Rope Trick, Shatter, Suggestion (2nd Divine Bard)

Charm Monster (3rd Divine Bard), Fly, Glibness, Haste, Mass Fast Healing 1

Flame Strike (4th Druid), Greater Invisibility, Polymorph, Shadow Conjuration

Frosty
2008-03-11, 02:34 PM
Not available due to sillyness according to DM (which I agree). That's like saying you can have Fighter and Generic Warrior to get twice the bonus feats. RP-wise it just wouldn't make sense. Pelor grants him twice the spells? Besides, storyline wise, he has both a knack for arcane and divine talents.

yes, mechanically it's good, but I can't go for it rp-wise. Although it would've been cool to have Glibness...

Frosty
2008-03-12, 12:14 AM
Any other suggestions?

Squash Monster
2008-03-12, 01:31 AM
I'll probably run out of level 3 spell slots before I can Fly everyone. We've got like 8 things in the party. Granted, one of them can naturally fly already but still...

Stinking cloud rocks against casters definitely, although I really prefer debuffs without saves, since his save DCs aren't that hot (only 19 for 4th level spells). But what's a good area debuff without save? Evard's Tentacles I guess...but FoM would take care of that.

BTW, what does Cloud of Bewilder do?Well, generally whoever is flying has one end of a rope, and something sturdy on your end is tied to the other end of the rope. Flying the whole party is a bit much, but having it on yourself at all times as a way of avoiding trouble is nice. But, still, I'd only take it if that level has open space.

Cloud of Bewilderment does exactly the same thing as Stinking Cloud, but it's level 2 and has a 10ft cube area. I think fort saves are probably the most reliable way of shutting down an arcane caster. Divine casters are a pain though, since reflex stuff is all direct damage (sucks) or negated by freedom of movement.


More random spells:

Caltrops (SPC) - creates one 5' square of caltrops per 2 levels. Why is this good? It's a cantrip.

Anticipate Teleportation (SPC) - anything that teleports into the area of effect alerts you and shows up a round late. Insanely awesome if you have baleful transposition. Level 3

Triaxx
2008-03-12, 07:40 AM
Personally, I'd prefer to Buff with Cleric, and Blast with Sorceror, but if you want to Buff with sorceror... You're crazy. Pick up Invisibility and Mirror Image for defense, and go crazy with Bull's Strength, and Cat's Grace. Don't forget to nab Haste. Most of the personal defense spells are useless on top of Mirror Image, except for Stoneskin. Everything else is up for debate. Fireball is a must have though, since the best buff you can hand the party is to knock down the HP of the enemy.

kme
2008-03-12, 08:03 AM
Maybe you should check what items and feats you can take to before you finalize your list of spells known. Metamagic rods/feats/sudden feats (extend, chain, reach, sculpt, etc.) can make some spells much better/useful, or free you spell slots. There are alo some other interesting items in Magic Item Compendium.

TempusCCK
2008-03-12, 08:48 AM
Best debuff in the game, Solid Fog. Same effect as a slow, effects a whole area, and there's no save.
THERE'S NO SAVE.

Frosty
2008-03-12, 10:41 AM
Maybe you should check what items and feats you can take to before you finalize your list of spells known. Metamagic rods/feats/sudden feats (extend, chain, reach, sculpt, etc.) can make some spells much better/useful, or free you spell slots. There are alo some other interesting items in Magic Item Compendium.

My feats? I've got Reach and Quicken spell and DMM of those two metamagics, but DMM only works for divine spellcasting, so it won't affect my sorcerer side. And yes, I do plan on buffing and healing a lot with the cleric side, but there are some buffs and defenses that a cleric simply does not have access to, so I need to devote a bitof my sorcerer spells to it as well.

What are the best cleric buffs do you think? I will have Shield Other on the tank frequently. Between that, Delay Death, and Revivify (which I can quicken and reach), nobody in my party should be staying dead.

Solid Fog is a terrific idea. I wonder how it works if you cast it on a flying creature. Since the creature can't maintain forward momentum, does it stall and fall? But it won't fall more than 5 ft a round. Hmm...interesting applications.