4E + Rift in the Sky (Spoilers)

[gadren]

Hey, I was thinking about it, and does anyone else think that the rift over Azure City could kind of be like OotS World version of the Spell Plague (the in-story explanation in Forgotten Realms novels for the 3.5-4E changes.)?

[Theodoriph]

Honestly, no.

[FujinAkari]

Considering that the rifts were established way back in the Dungeon of Durokan, before 4e was even announced, I really really doubt it.

[David Argall]

Given that there seems no good reason to think 4e is going to be adopted by the strip at all, the idea that the rift, or anything else, is a means to that end shouldn't even need refuting.

However we can note that the Spell Plague and other changes to FR is an extremely bad idea whose purpose was to preserve a popular name while destroying everything that made it popular. It does terrible damage to the story aspects, the aspects our strip is most centered on.

[Belkar Rocks]

I don't know anything about 3.5 to 4E stuff, but I keep reading "Rift in the Sky" and thinking of the old Journey song (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJ7mEff3_Nk) ...

That's probably just me, though. :smallsigh:

[Phase]

Also, I don't think a rip in the fabric of reality counts as a spell.

[gadren]

Given that there seems no good reason to think 4e is going to be adopted by the strip at all, the idea that the rift, or anything else, is a means to that end shouldn't even need refuting.

However we can note that the Spell Plague and other changes to FR is an extremely bad idea whose purpose was to preserve a popular name while destroying everything that made it popular. It does terrible damage to the story aspects, the aspects our strip is most centered on.

While I agree with you on the second part about screwing up FR, I have to disagree with there being "no good reason to think 4e is going to be adopted by the strip at all." Do you really think that OOTs would have become as popular as it has if it was released at the same time, but was entirely about 2nd edition instead of v3.5? It'd be like going to a comedy show where the comedian was making jokes about the OJ Simpson trial.


Also, I don't think a rip in the fabric of reality counts as a spell.

... who said it was?

[monty]

While I agree with you on the second part about screwing up FR, I have to disagree with there being "no good reason to think 4e is going to be adopted by the strip at all." Do you really think that OOTs would have become as popular as it has if it was released at the same time, but was entirely about 2nd edition instead of v3.5? It'd be like going to a comedy show where the comedian was making jokes about the OJ Simpson trial.



... who said it was?

First, it went to 3.5 from 3.0 if I remember right, not 2nd. Also, Rich has said that he didn't like the first comic. Also also, I've heard that converting to 4.0 will be much more difficult (if not impossible) than previous conversions.

[Theodoriph]

While I agree with you on the second part about screwing up FR, I have to disagree with there being "no good reason to think 4e is going to be adopted by the strip at all." Do you really think that OOTs would have become as popular as it has if it was released at the same time, but was entirely about 2nd edition instead of v3.5? It'd be like going to a comedy show where the comedian was making jokes about the OJ Simpson trial.



... who said it was?


Your analogy is silly. Oots uses a playing system that is familiar to almost all d and d players. In 5 years, 3.5 will still be familiar to most d and d players as well as the dungeons and dragons nerds who read this strip.

2nd edition on the other hand, even when the strip began was pretty much dead. 3.5 had already come out and third edition had been out for years.




Edit:

As an aside, when the strip started, it made sense to use the most current rules. One, it was a gag strip at that time and newer rules provided fresher material. Two, he was trying to obtain an audience, and jokes about OD&D, AD&D or AD&D2 may not have been understood (in a strip that at the time was largely based on poking fun at rules...this would have been a no-no).

OOTS has evolved quite a bit since then. It is no longer focuses on rules jokes and is instead plot and character driven. This means that A) there is no need to convert and B) New readers will still be attracted to the strip. All changing editions would do is needlessly disrupt the characters...a no-no in a character driven strip with a serious plot.


OOTS will still be as funny as it has been (barring a decline in quality) because it doesn't use rules for the majority of its jokes and again, it hasn't in years. It uses character and plot and those never become dated. :smallsmile:

[Paragon Badger]

OOTS will still be as funny as it has been (barring a decline in quality) because it doesn't use rules for the majority of its jokes and again, it hasn't in years. It uses character and plot and those never become dated. :smallsmile:

Clearly, you've never seen the endless swarm of flanderization jokes in 'That 70s Show'

"We get it- Kelso's an idiot!"

On a related note, Ashten Kutcher as Anakin Skywalker:


You guys are totally holding me back! GOD!

[Theodoriph]

I wouldn't really say that 70s show was about character or plot. As far as I know, there was no plot and the characters never developed. The characters were simply there and were as they were so that the jokes would work. The characters seemed built around the jokes instead of the other way around. It was a terrible show.

It it had been a comic, it would have been your quintessential gag strip. And those do get old. Like Family Guy or the Simpsons (the former of which lost all of its charm after season 3) and the latter of which lost some of its charm somewhere in the teens.

[Amphiprison]

Anyone who believes OotS doesn't have the chops to upgrade seamlessly needs to go back and read the very first strip. Ah, the memories...

[Theodoxus]

Anyone who believes OotS doesn't have the chops to upgrade seamlessly needs to go back and read the very first strip. Ah, the memories...

QFT

The mechanics of D&D are rarely represented in OotS - and when they are, it's nearly always as a joke, poking fun at itself. I think the transition to 4E in strip, could be done quite humorously without ruining the foundation of the story or story arc.

But be that as it may, I don't forsee Rich incorporating the new rule set - but I am willing to be wrong on this :)

[Teron]

Conversion from 3.0 to 3.5 was simple. Converting characters to 4E has been said by WotC to be nearly impossible. For example, there are no bards in the new edition.

[hamishspence]

Thats not in the strictest sence true. There will be no bards in the first 3 books, true, however there will be bards later on, since all the evidence coming out of the WOTC site suggests bards have been worked on and will get released. Also, there is no longer an assumption that only the first 3 books will be core: Wizards has said the later books will be core as well.

so, it would make more sense for an update to 4th ed, if it occurs at all, to be delayed until we do have bards (and sorcerers, or necromancers, Xykon might be better represented as a necromancer)

so, it makes sense that we will not see an update for a year or two after 4th ed is out, if we want continuity.

I'd like to see it, but done that way.

[shadowdemon_lord]

The problem with that, is that 4E radically changes the various abilities of the classes far as I can tell. Doing that to characters as well established as they are in OoTS would not make me happy.

[Kish]

Also, there is no longer an assumption that only the first 3 books will be core: Wizards has said the later books will be core as well.
.....Agggghhhh.

[hamishspence]

core is a dubious term anyway, if player has a WOTC supplement it should not automatically be disallowed. At least not without testing. However DMs should not feel they HAVE to buy everything, though, the new system might be a little pricey.

[DreadSpoon]

I ban all books not of the original 3 in my games solely because doing that testing takes forever, usually the span of an entire campaign, and breaking my campaign is what I'm trying to avoid by banning add-on books.

Seriously, the whole add-on book thing is just kind of lame anyway. I fully argue that even needing 3 books for the core game is pointless bloat. The MM is full of a huge variety of non-sense monsters that just don't logically fit into a game world without a lot of hand-waiving, a third of the PHB is devoted to spells many of which are just ever-so-slight variations of each other (you do not need 100+ damage spells - a single set of rules that lets you do damage with variables to control power, area, element, etc. is sufficient), and the DMG has remained barely touched for the last 10 years in every game I've played (other than using it for magic items).

I have a stack of complete games that manage to fit all of their material into a single volume, often slightly smaller than the 3.5 PHB. D&D is massively bloated.

[Fineous Orlon]

core is a dubious term anyway, if player has a WOTC supplement it should not automatically be disallowed. At least not without testing. However DMs should not feel they HAVE to buy everything, though, the new system might be a little pricey.

How is "core" dubious? It's on the cover of the books, seems pretty straightforward.

Anyway, I can see the characters complaining in OotS even if Rich doesn't convert them

generic examples spoilered: ["do you know how much damage that would have done?" "I could do [insert new class feature], but no, the man is holding us down!", "I was going to be a {XXXX} but the change did not seem worth it." etc.].

The changeover [or lack of doing so] in gaming systems will be fertile ground, whether Rich mines it or not.

[Teron]

(and sorcerers, or necromancers, Xykon might be better represented as a necromancer)
Uh, no. Xykon is very distinctively and purposely a sorcerer and not a wizard, necromancer or otherwise.

And that "everything is core" line is bull****. If everything is "core", the word is meaningless and there's no such thing as "core". It's just another transparent ploy to make people buy more books.

Yet another reason that the comic will never convert is that Mr. Burlew wants it to be accessible to people who don't play D&D. After hundreds of strips the workings of the world - which is to say, the basics of the rules - should be clear to them. There's no way he'll foist a new system on them; not even in a year or two, since the delay wouldn't help people who don't spend that time learning the new rules themselves.

[Mr._Michael]

I suppose in the beginning the rules mattered to the jokes... but for the last, oh, few YEARS OR SO Rich has made a happy habit of bending the rules to fit the plot.

*sigh* I said, 'Nice shooting, sir.' (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0353.html) Still one of my favorite lines in Oots.

Now, since Rich has said that Upgrading the Characters for a joke was not something he is happy with in retrospect, how can you figure he's going to revisit that move again? Especially when he has been happy to choose plot over rules in the past.

No, don't go looking for Fourth Edition Upgrades to this campaign. It would introduce more problems, yet improve nothing... and while it was FUNNY last time, it's, you know, been done.

[FujinAkari]

Now, since Rich has said that Upgrading the Characters for a joke was not something he is happy with in retrospect, how can you figure he's going to revisit that move again? Especially when he has been happy to choose plot over rules in the past.

I'm getting a bit tired of reading this, mainly because that isn't what Rich said.

What Rich said was "I kind of wish I had picked something better for the first comic in the strip. Opening the strip with a conversion joke permanently affixes it in time and makes the strip seem dated." (Paraphrased)

This is -not- the same as "I wish I had never done that strip."

[pendell]

Actually, there is a convenient way to upgrade to 4E.



IF all 5 gates get destroyed, and IF the world is re-built from scratch or at least heavily re-designed, that would be a good time to move to 4E rules.

I'm assuming at the same time a number of the characters would ascend to godhood ... Belkar can be Lord Cyric, Vaarsuvius can be god of magic, and Banjo can be god of puppets.



Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Lupy]

It would be hilarious if the ritual to control the snarl was to convert to 4th ed.

[aristodeimos]

Being as how Rich actually works for WotC (he co-wrote Dungeonscape), I find it hard to believe he won't convert the OotS crew. I personally hope he doesn't, but I'm sure whatever he does will be entertaining.