Why the Bastard Sword is the best weapon of all time

[Deepblue706]

First off: It's an exotic weapon. "But Deepblue", you say. "Exotic weapons suck! They cost a whole feat for a load of crap!" Well, if you are a blind and ignorant fool, I suppose that perspective makes sense, in a sad sort of way.

Well, bucko, guess what? Exotic Weapons are necessary if you want to be an Exotic Weapon Master. As a three-level PrC from Complete Warrior, it gives you some particularly nice abilities. Prereqs are:

BAB +6
Craft (Weaponsmithing) 3 ranks
Prof: Exotic Weapon
Focus: Exotic Weapon

Here's the three you want:

1) Uncanny Blow: Use twice your STR mod when applying damage to a 1-handed exotic weapon you use 2-handed. Guess what? The Bastard Sword is a 1-handed exotic weapon. It's just you don't get penalties when lacking the proficiency and using it 2-handed.

2) Throw Exotic Weapon: You gain a range increment of 10ft with your Exotic Weapon, even if it's not meant to be thrown. I don't think I really have to explain why this is totally awesome - but I WILL explain how it's totally awesomER. You'll find out soon enough; just bear with me.

3) Close-Quarters Ranged Combat: You don't provoke AoOs when making ranged attacks with the Exotic Weapon. At all. It's important, trust me.

However, these abilities only set the stage for what's to come; Observe! I will bring you further into the depths of how-awesome-the-bastard-sword-really-is.

Our OTHER PrC we'll be grabbing is the Master Thrower. Can you guess why? Well, if not, obviously you're not paying attention and should probably be beaten senseless for your lack of interest in things most manly. If you're a woman, then I suppose you're off the hook.

The Master Thrower happens to be a 5-level PrC from the same source as our Exotic Weapon Master friend.

It has these requirements:

BAB +5
Sleight of Hand 4 ranks
Point Blank Shot
Precise Shot
Weapon Focus (Any thrown weapon)

Over the course of this class progression, you gain three techniques involved with throwing. Also note Quick Draw is a free feat at first level. Here's the three abilities you want from this class:

1) Trip Shot: Make a ranged attack with chosen weapon at a target farther than 5 ft away. If you hit, make a dex check at +4 against the target's strength or dexterity check. If you win, hit target is also tripped.

2) Two-With-One-Blow: If a master thrower with this ability uses a thrown weapon to attack two opponents adjacent to one another, they may take a -4 to their attack roll to have it apply to both targets at once. Resolve damage seperately.

3) Deadeye Shot: Increase a specific ranged weapon's crit multiplier by 1.

Master Thrower also grants you Evasion, Snatch Arrows, and my favorite: Improved Critical with any thrown weapon with which you have Weapon Focus.

Now, here's how we go about getting these delicious abilities:

30 point buy

Race: Orc
Progression: Fighter 6/EWM 3/MT 5/Barbarian X

Original Attributes (lvl 1):

STR 16
DEX 16
CON 12
INT 10
WIS 12
CHA 8

Explanation: We cannot totally front-load our physique merely because we have to get a few ranks in prereq skills. Plus, Will save penalties aren't very fun to play with.

Modified Attributes (lvl 1):

STR 20
DEX 16
CON 12
INT 8
WIS 10
CHA 6

Feat/Ability Progression:

1: Power Attack
1F: Cleave
2F: EWP: Bastard Sword
3: Point Blank Shot
4F: Precise Shot
6: Two-Weapon Fighting
6F: Focus: Bastard Sword
7EWM: Uncanny Blow
8EWM: Throw Weapon
9: Oversized Two-Weapon Fighting
9EWM: Close-Quarters Ranged Combat
10MT: Quick Draw
10MT: Trip Shot
12: Rapid Shot
12MT: Two-With-One-Blow
14MT: Deadeye Shot
14MT: Critical Throw

So, with proper training, what can the Bastard Sword offer you?
1: More THW damage than a Greatsword at high STR levels (thank you Uncanny Blow)!
2: Ranged Combat (Both with a Bow or a Vorpal Sword) - With your Swords flying just as fast as your arrows, thanks to Quick Draw!
3: Tripping Attacks (at any range greater than 5ft)!
4: An increased thrown weapon crit range AND multiplier (that's 17-20/x3)!
5: Regular TWF, which everybody knows it automatically cool with two huge honkin' swords!
6: The ability to have your swords hit multiple people with each throw!
7: The ability to throw your swords without fear of AoOs!
8: An excuse to carry a dozen swords with you at a single time!
9: You can also use a shield and still be wielding this badass weapon!
10: Too many other perks to count!

As you see, the Bastard Sword is highly versatile and capable of a lot more badassery than any other weapon. If you are still not convinced it's worthwhile, then you're a sissy.

If you have any questions, please ask.

[Azerian Kelimon]

You're wasting a feat, for a rather minor benefit, and you're losing class features. The bastard sword is, quite simply, rather useless, moreso because it doesn't even completely grant a new weapon. Much better to actually rack up a multiplier or boost PA damage to insane levels than to get extra STR bonus.

If you we're using sarcasm, though, I applaud you.

[Chronicled]

A fine idea, but wasting feats to TWF with it instead of just THW is a less than stellar idea. Besides all the TWF feats, you have to take EWP, which you wouldn't need to otherwise. And THAT would allow you to take something other than fighter levels early on.

The perceived versatility with TWF isn't worth the cost, by any means.


You're wasting a feat, for a rather minor benefit, and you're losing class features. The bastard sword is, quite simply, rather useless, moreso because it doesn't even completely grant a new weapon. Much better to actually rack up a multiplier or boost PA damage to insane levels than to get extra STR bonus.

You can boost PA damage as well if you don't worry about TWF. The bastard sword is quite useful for this role because you don't need to waste an EWP feat to use it two-handed.

[Nebo_]

Your build is... ok. But why don't you use a good weapon instead of the bastard sword?

[Cybren]

It's a build that dual-wields bastard swords.

And throws them. You're over thinking it.

[Blackadder]

You're wasting a feat, for a rather minor benefit, and you're losing class features. The bastard sword is, quite simply, rather useless, moreso because it doesn't even completely grant a new weapon. Much better to actually rack up a multiplier or boost PA damage to insane levels than to get extra STR bonus.

If you we're using sarcasm, though, I applaud you.

You sir do not see the true brilliance of this build
The Visual
Can you imagine a BBEG Orc who's got a half dozen bastard swords which he not only dual weilds but throws them like throwing daggers and without giving you a AoO?

Oh It's brillant, mind you any magic user takes this build apart but from a pure style and visual element this is great.

[Azerian Kelimon]

And most importantly, how in holy cow chicken giant frog are you taking TWF without Tiger Claw? Not using it cutting your options in a spectacular manner.

[Deepblue706]

What's wrong with you people? You can use a SHIELD if you have a Bastard Sword, in addition to all the other fine points I listed.

[Azerian Kelimon]

...You can ALWAYS use a shield, just strap it on your wrist. That matters not witht he build, and actually using it in the hand is a rediculous idea.

And your sarcasm is certainly amazing. Points for that.

[Chronicled]

What's wrong with you people? You can use a SHIELD if you have a Bastard Sword, in addition to all the other fine points I listed.

SHIELDS SUCK (after level 1). Unless you're using a tower shield for cover, but you should be dropping it before you enter combat.

Get an animated shield later on if you want the AC.

[Deepblue706]

Oh It's brillant, mind you any magic user takes this build apart but from a pure style and visual element this is great.

Are you kidding?!

Wind wall doesn't stop thrown weapons. That's OBVIOUSLY the only thing mr. magic has over this ultimate badass.

[Deepblue706]

Get an animated shield later on if you want the AC.

You won't have the money for it. All funds are meant for Vorpal Bastard Swords. You throw them, and then heads fly. If you're using Two-For-One-Blow, you can behead two people simultaneously. DONT YOU UNDERSTAND!?

[Nerd-o-rama]

Just as a note, it takes a full-round action to throw a weapon two-handed. But dual-wielding fixes that (while depriving you of Uncanny Blow...but it's a versatility thing, I understand). And you also need as many swords as you have attacks to be effective, since Returning weapons take a full round to come back. This gets expensive.

You might consider adding in Power Throw and Brutal Throw from...either CAdv or PHB2...for more ranged damage.

It's a neat, flashy build.

[Azerian Kelimon]

I pronounce deepblue = Teh pwnzorz. He officially has made a bastard sword badass.

[Chronicled]

You won't have the money for it. All funds are meant for Vorpal Bastard Swords. You throw them, and then heads fly. If you're using Two-For-One-Blow, you can behead two people simultaneously. DONT YOU UNDERSTAND!?

:smallsigh:

So much for serious critique...

[Deepblue706]

Just as a note, it takes a full-round action to throw a weapon two-handed. But dual-wielding fixes that (while depriving you of Uncanny Blow...but it's a versatility thing, I understand). And you also need as many swords as you have attacks to be effective, since Returning weapons take a full round to come back. This gets expensive.

You only two-hand when down to your last sword, or in melee. When throwing, you use one hand on each.

Yes, it's expensive, but you DONT get returning. Just lotsa swords. All vorpal.



You might consider adding in Power Throw and Brutal Throw from...either CAdv or PHB2...for more ranged damage.

It's a neat, flashy build.

Maybe I can extend the progression...

[Thinker]

Its clear that the OP is ahead of his time with his ideas. If you're a real manly man you realize that the Bastard Sword is the only way to go.


...Come to think of it even if you're a womanly man or a manly woman or a womanly woman this is the best weapon for you.

[Cybren]

Now, of only the ol' Orc Shotput was updated to 3.5...

[Kyeudo]

Is this a satire of the Bastard Sword, like that thread about how Monks are supposed to be the porters for the group?

[Edan]

I always loved the bastard sword, you just made it win, beyond all belief. You sir, are genius.

*Visualizes a barrage of thrown bastard swords, collapses from epic image overload.*

[Deepblue706]

Is this a satire of the Bastard Sword, like that thread about how Monks are supposed to be the porters for the group?

What the hell is wrong with you? Monks are useless, and that's that. This is no satire. Get off of my internet.

[Chronos]

3) Deadeye Shot: Increase a specific ranged weapon's crit multiplier by 1.This would work better with a Dwarven Waraxe than with a bastard sword. With the bastard sword, you're increasing your extra critical damage by a factor of 1.5, while with the waraxe, you're doubling your extra critical damage. And dual-throwing waraxes is just as awesome a visual as dual-throwing swords.

[Deepblue706]

This would work better with a Dwarven Waraxe than with a bastard sword. With the bastard sword, you're increasing your extra critical damage by a factor of 1.5, while with the waraxe, you're doubling your extra critical damage. And dual-throwing waraxes is just as awesome a visual as dual-throwing swords.

A fair proposal.

Also, is it wrong to also consider using the Gnome Hooked Hammer as a substitute, as well?

[Paragon Badger]

What the hell is wrong with you? Monks are useless, and that's that. This is no satire. Get off of my internet.

Your internet? I shutter at the thought of the contents of your Wikipedia edits. :smalltongue:

Ease up on the flaming. :smallamused:

[Solo]

Deepblue, what do you think of Bastard Sword-chucks?

[Deepblue706]

Deepblue, what do you think of Bastard Sword-chucks?

Oh man, if I had Bastard Sword-Chucks, I'd be like Bruce Lee meets Musashi meets my illegitimate father.

[The_Snark]

This is intriguing, but I think I may be able to one-up it.

You begin with monk.

No, hear me out, it's a dip and you really do need it. Okay, two levels of monk. Then go into, eh, fighter or barbarian or something combat-oriented, not all that important. Let's say fighter, because you'll need to take a couple of crappy feats before level 6 to qualify for...

Level 6, Drunken Master. All improvised weapons, anything at all, now does damage equal to your unarmed damage, and you're proficient with them. Now take Throw Anything. I hope you see the repercussions of this: anything, absolutely anything, is a potentially lethal weapon in your hands, at a distance. Even exotic weapons and stuff, since you can say you're holding the sword by the blade and hitting people with the hilt. We only need 1 level of it; you can take further levels as you see fit, but it's a good idea to eventually go into Master Thrower if you can get Weapon Focus (improvised) past your DM, or into Bloodstorm Blade if it's available.

But really, that's the crux of it there. Neat things to do include combining Power Throw with Weak Spot, Two-weapon Fighting, and Palm Throw; use some suitably smallish weapon to qualify for Palm Throw, like paper clips.

That's right: kill people with paper clips. Beat people to death with shoelaces, or better yet with thrown shoelaces. Juggle (monks get Perform), and kill the members of the audience who heckle. Your only limits are your imagination, and of course your DM, who may cramp your style by doing things like ruling that a feather is not a practical improvised weapon, especially not at range.

Best of all, recreate this: http://www.freewebs.com/moviemystery/blueraja.jpg

[Nebo_]

Am I the only one failing to see how this is cool?

[Rutee]

Am I the only one failing to see how this is cool?

Yes, and it makes you a Dirty Communist, a Subversive, and a Traitor.

[Azerian Kelimon]

Yes, because the blue raja is 20 different degrees of awesome.

[GammaPaladin]

Yes.

Though I agree... If you're using Vorpal, you're going to want the highest crit range possible... For obvious, instant one shot kill reasons.

Oh wait, I forgot, Vorpal only works on a nat 20 anyway. Heh, I've never been in a game where a DM would actually allow vorpal, so I couldn't remember.

[Rutee]

This is intriguing, but I think I may be able to one-up it.

You begin with monk.

No, hear me out, it's a dip and you really do need it. Okay, two levels of monk. Then go into, eh, fighter or barbarian or something combat-oriented, not all that important. Let's say fighter, because you'll need to take a couple of crappy feats before level 6 to qualify for...

Level 6, Drunken Master. All improvised weapons, anything at all, now does damage equal to your unarmed damage, and you're proficient with them. Now take Throw Anything. I hope you see the repercussions of this: anything, absolutely anything, is a potentially lethal weapon in your hands, at a distance. Even exotic weapons and stuff, since you can say you're holding the sword by the blade and hitting people with the hilt. We only need 1 level of it; you can take further levels as you see fit, but it's a good idea to eventually go into Master Thrower if you can get Weapon Focus (improvised) past your DM, or into Bloodstorm Blade if it's available.

But really, that's the crux of it there. Neat things to do include combining Power Throw with Weak Spot, Two-weapon Fighting, and Palm Throw; use some suitably smallish weapon to qualify for Palm Throw, like paper clips.

That's right: kill people with paper clips. Beat people to death with shoelaces, or better yet with thrown shoelaces. Juggle (monks get Perform), and kill the members of the audience who heckle. Your only limits are your imagination, and of course your DM, who may cramp your style by doing things like ruling that a feather is not a practical improvised weapon, especially not at range.

Best of all, recreate this: http://www.freewebs.com/moviemystery/blueraja.jpg

Do you know what was the most awesome thing about your post, Snarky One? That the bolded part would so make sense on this list (http://theglen.livejournal.com/16735.html).

[Nebo_]

Yes.

Though I agree... If you're using Vorpal, you're going to want the highest crit range possible... For obvious, instant one shot kill reasons.

Morbo says: VORPAL DOES NOT WORK THAT WAY!

[ZeroNumerous]

I enjoy The_Snark's idea. I've always wanted to play Bullseye. :smallbiggrin:

Deepblue: I love it and I want you inside me. :smalltongue:

[Solo]

Yes, and it makes you a Dirty Communist, a Subversive, and a Traitor.

You mean he's a prevert?

[Cuddly]

Wow, that's a great build. Dual throwing bastard swords!

[Chronicled]

This would work better with a Dwarven Waraxe than with a bastard sword. With the bastard sword, you're increasing your extra critical damage by a factor of 1.5, while with the waraxe, you're doubling your extra critical damage. And dual-throwing waraxes is just as awesome a visual as dual-throwing swords.

And if you're going dwarf while doing this... hey-o! there's a free EWP along with your Con bonus and myriad of super racial abilities.

[Irreverent Fool]

My first character was 3d6-in-order human fighter with 18/98 strength and specialization in 1-handed bastard swords. He wielded two of the things and could pretty much mow down anything in the first round of combat assuming he got initiative.

If he didn't, he was dead meat. I rolled a 1 for his hp.

Deepblue, I tip my hat jester's cap to you. I will be trying the build out at the first opportunity. The optimizers be damned! Throwing bastard swords is the only way to go!

Edit: Oh, and yeah. VORPAL DOES NOT WORK THAT WAY!

[Solo]

I prefer playing Hulking Hurlers. They throw bastards instead.

[theMycon]

Do you know what was the most awesome thing about your post, Snarky One? That the bolded part would so make sense on this list (http://theglen.livejournal.com/16735.html).

That list, with the builds here, gives me the most sick, depraved idea ever. BBEG orc who dual weilds/throws kittens (as his exotic weapon).

[Cuddly]

That list, with the builds here, gives me the most sick, depraved idea ever. BBEG orc who dual weilds/throws kittens (as his exotic weapon).

Combine that with his bardic friend throwing out mass buffs on the kitties, and it could get down right ugly.

[TheFlamingHobo]

Is this a bad attempt at optimizing or a sad attempt at humor? Either way. Fail.

[Cuddly]

Jealousy is such an ugly emotion.

[Xuincherguixe]

It's not that great a build, but you've managed to make a pretty good build out of a bastard sword user.

It'd make for a good villain encounter.

[Rift_Wolf]

Are you kidding?!

Wind wall doesn't stop thrown weapons. That's OBVIOUSLY the only thing mr. magic has over this ultimate badass.

We now know you're being sarcastic. Even suggesting a fighter could POSSIBLY fight a wizard is forum heresy :-P

[lord_khaine]

i found the bastard sword part boring, but the blue raja part was fun.

[KillianHawkeye]

I'd love to see my players' faces when I send that bastard sword throwing orc after them! 1000 points for style! :smallwink:

[Burley]

Combine that with his bardic friend throwing out mass buffs on the kitties, and it could get down right ugly.

Why stop there? Cast Enlarge Person on your BBEG and he'll pull out his secret weapon: Dual Wield Tigers!

@Deepblue: I've always wanted to have a character that was the most badass visually. I think you've just given it to me. Strap a half-dozen o' those babies to your back and just let 'em fly. Get in a samurai duel (the kind with cherry blossoms in the air...)? Just ready your action to Quick Draw and throw that Enemy sword at the Bastard. I mean, the bastard sword at the enemy.

Any, Vorpal only beheads on a twenty. ONLY NATURAL 20. The only way to make vorpal better is to take the Luck feat that turns Natural 1 into Natural 20.

[Crimson Avenger]

Very entertaining, but I'm pretty sure you can't get into Master Thrower that way. Unfortunately, a thrown weapon and a weapon you can throw are two different things. But if your DM will allow it, I say go for it!

Still, that visual is priceless.

[Ellisthion]

I'd come up with almost this exact thing a few years back. Pure fighter, using Throw Anything to, well, throw the Bastard Swords.

Hmm. Can you use Rapid Shot with thrown weapons?

[Vortling]

You can rapid shot with thrown weapons. While this is entirely awesome, I'm disappointed that the OP didn't work in the Bloodstorm Blade PrC.

[SilentNight]

B*tchin'. Absolutely b*tchin'. So awesome. the blue rajah is better but the bastard sword is nice too. My only problem is the -4 on attacks due to the dual-wield ein-handers.

[TheFlamingHobo]

After the reply to my previous post I’m at a loss as to whether this is serious or not. Is there really such a fascination with dual wielding and throwing bastard swords? Seriously the idea is just absurd. Do you play in games where there is even any semblance of verisimilitude? If a DM or player in one of my games tried something like this he’d be laughed at, dnd is a game where the suspension of disbelief is everything, a guy wandering about with a sack of bastard swords that he throws at people doesn’t deserve a place in any world. It is dumb.

The idea however isn’t entirely flawed; it’s possible to work this build into something interesting and flavourful without looking like a gigantic retard.
For instance a good starting place is the Valenar Double Scimitar, an interesting (and mechanically superior) exotic weapon.

Ranger 6/ Revenant Blade 5/ Exotic Weapon Master 1/ Warblade 1/ Bloodstorm Blade 4/ Master Thrower 1

Feats of note: Bladebearer of the Valenar, TWF, ITWF, PBS, Precise Shot, Throw Anything, Quick Draw

Ancestral guidance feats get you Improved Critical, Power Attack or W. Spec. Use Deadeye shot from Master Thrower and Flurry of Strikes from Exotic Weapon Master.

Now your weapon is 16-20/x3, with Revenant Blade you do two-handed weapon damage with each end of the double scimitar and get double power attack to each. And with the addition of Bloodstorm Blade you do all this by throwing your weapon.

And still lots of free feats to further expand the concept if needed.
To me the imagery of an elf spinning a deadly weave of blades around himself or using the same weapon as a twirling bladed projectile is a much nicer concept then an orc with a sack of bastard swords.

I’m never a fan of ridiculous character concepts, if you like your way better and get more enjoyment from playing bizarre (and frankly inferior) builds then good luck trying to get a DM who likes equally mind numbing things.

[Kami2awa]

[QUOTE=Burley Warlock;4054263]Why stop there? Cast Enlarge Person on your BBEG and he'll pull out his secret weapon: Dual Wield Tigers!
QUOTE]

(my italics)

... Where exactly was he carrying them before being Enlarged?

[Yeril]

Now, of only the ol' Orc Shotput was updated to 3.5...

Ah, my good old Orc Shotput thrower with a +2 Adamantine Flaming Burst Returning Shotput, and a +2 Adamantine Icy Burst Returning Shotput.

Comet and Meteor :smallamused:

and 17-20 x4 critical range :smallsmile:

[Ryver]

After the reply to my previous post I’m at a loss as to whether this is serious or not. Is there really such a fascination with dual wielding and throwing bastard swords? Seriously the idea is just absurd. Do you play in games where there is even any semblance of verisimilitude? If a DM or player in one of my games tried something like this he’d be laughed at, dnd is a game where the suspension of disbelief is everything, a guy wandering about with a sack of bastard swords that he throws at people doesn’t deserve a place in any world. It is dumb.

[...]

I’m never a fan of ridiculous character concepts, if you like your way better and get more enjoyment from playing bizarre (and frankly inferior) builds then good luck trying to get a DM who likes equally mind numbing things.
Well, you're welcome to your opinion. However, a lot of us think that this idea - while ridiculous and not at all realistic - is all at once hilarious, awesome, and hilari-awesome.

It's not about optimizing, or satire. It's about throwing swords at your opponent and being ridiculously good at it (key word: ridiculous). You're taking this too seriously, my friend.

(I bet you don't laugh at Chuck Norris jokes, either.)


It's a build that dual-wields bastard swords.

And throws them. You're over thinking it.
Quoted For Truth

[Flickerdart]

Wait, but wouldn't taking a Dwarf and replacing Bastard Swords with Dwarven Axes free up a feat that can be used for not dying? Throwing giant waraxes is almost as awesome as throwing swords, and with the empty feat slot you can take Improved Two-Weapon or something.

[BRC]

Yes, and it makes you a Dirty Communist, a Subversive, and a Traitor.
I take offense at being associated with somebody who does not consider killing a dragon with a paperclip Cool.


Also, Versimillitude is no match for the Rule of Cool.

[Rutee]

That list, with the builds here, gives me the most sick, depraved idea ever. BBEG orc who dual weilds/throws kittens (as his exotic weapon).

Tadakatsu: "No matter how many men you throw at me, I'll smash them all!"
Shingen: "What if I threw kittens at you, Tadakatsu? Would you kill them too?"

Any idea that reminds me of Shingen is by default a good idea.

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

First off: It's an exotic weapon. "But Deepblue", you say. "Exotic weapons suck! They cost a whole feat for a load of crap!" Well, if you are a blind and ignorant fool, I suppose that perspective makes sense, in a sad sort of way.

Well, bucko, guess what? Exotic Weapons are necessary if you want to be an Exotic Weapon Master. As a three-level PrC from Complete Warrior, it gives you some particularly nice abilities. Prereqs are:.

Cool though this is, I'll see your Bastard-Sword Throwing Awesomeness and raise you.

Observe:

Warblade 6/Bloodstorm Blade 1/Exotic Weapon Master 2/Master Thrower 1/Bloodstorm Blade 9/Warblade 1

Exotic Weapon Master abilities: Uncanny Blow, Close Quarters Ranged Combat
Master Thrower Abilities: Deadeye Shot

Throw your Bastard Swords with style. Bastard Swords will be thrown with a 17-20/x3 multiplier and the ability to apply your Iron Heart Martial Maneuvers to them (of which you'll have 6 of 1st-3rd level and 1 of up to 7th).

You'll deal x3 Str mod damage if you throw it with two hands, and you can use your melee attack bonus to hit with a thrown weapon. Additionally, you gain another +1/2 your Strength bonus if you use both hands, raising the total damage to +x3.5 your Strength Bonus.

You may Power Attack with a ranged weapon.

Your weapon automatically returns to your grasp (although this does not stop you from choosing to deactivate this ability for style points).

You may attack foes in hiding by ricocheting your swords through other opponents.

As a stance, if you choose to draw an attack of opportunity while using a ranged attack, you can make a melee attack against that foe.

You can cause creatures to bleed continuously with your ranged attacks.

You may attack EVERY FOE WITHIN YOUR RANGE at your highest base attack bonus.

I hate to say it, but, even without the two-weapon fighting, the ability to THROW SWORDS AT EVERYONE WITHIN 50ft OF YOU WITHIN 6 SECONDS OBVIOUSLY makes the Bastard Sword the BEST WEAPON EVER.

[/sarcasm]

It is pretty cool though. :smallbiggrin:

[Learnedguy]

I'd totally play this character!!

The character concept is the cool. Not cool. The cool. Yeah, that's how cool it is. Now we just need more quirky fighters, and then I'll have a grand tournament of win:smallbiggrin:

[Rastaban]

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0520.html

:belkar: proves kittens are infact a very viable throwing weapon. And aparently Mr. Scruffy is a returning weapon :)

[FinalJustice]

Well, switch Bastard Sword for Greater Scimitar, from Sandstorm. GS is just like a bastard sword, but it has a natural 18-20 crit, 15~20 with Improved Crit. So, you'd be tossing spinning scimitars of awesomeness for x3 damage multiplier on roughly 1/4 of the time. Toss any range increment bonus you can get and you're golden. Make them fiery or/ thundery burst, just for the awesomeness of a big ninja guy throwing exploding scimitars all over the place.

[Deepblue706]

Cool though this is, I'll see your Bastard-Sword Throwing Awesomeness and raise you.

Observe:

Warblade 6/Bloodstorm Blade 1/Exotic Weapon Master 2/Master Thrower 1/Bloodstorm Blade 9/Warblade 1

Exotic Weapon Master abilities: Uncanny Blow, Close Quarters Ranged Combat
Master Thrower Abilities: Deadeye Shot

Throw your Bastard Swords with style. Bastard Swords will be thrown with a 17-20/x3 multiplier and the ability to apply your Iron Heart Martial Maneuvers to them (of which you'll have 6 of 1st-3rd level and 1 of up to 7th).

You'll deal x3 Str mod damage if you throw it with two hands, and you can use your melee attack bonus to hit with a thrown weapon. Additionally, you gain another +1/2 your Strength bonus if you use both hands, raising the total damage to +x3.5 your Strength Bonus.

You may Power Attack with a ranged weapon.

Your weapon automatically returns to your grasp (although this does not stop you from choosing to deactivate this ability for style points).

You may attack foes in hiding by ricocheting your swords through other opponents.

As a stance, if you choose to draw an attack of opportunity while using a ranged attack, you can make a melee attack against that foe.

You can cause creatures to bleed continuously with your ranged attacks.

You may attack EVERY FOE WITHIN YOUR RANGE at your highest base attack bonus.

I hate to say it, but, even without the two-weapon fighting, the ability to THROW SWORDS AT EVERYONE WITHIN 50ft OF YOU WITHIN 6 SECONDS OBVIOUSLY makes the Bastard Sword the BEST WEAPON EVER.

[/sarcasm]

It is pretty cool though. :smallbiggrin:

Unfortunately, I only have access to the SRD and Complete Warrior. If I had greater knowledge of D&D supplements, I would totally tweak this out further.

Also, I just realized - instead of taking 6 Fighter Levels, we can take only 4 and grab COMPLETE WARRIOR SAMURAI to get exotic weapon prof. Then, fill the other level with Barbarian for Rage!

Maybe if I get a free day in the future I'll go to my buddy's house and grab the best of his supplements (he has like, all of them. ever), and make the supreme bastard sword wielder. Or, something else equally ridiculous-yet-awesome.

[Darrin]

Combine that with his bardic friend throwing out mass buffs on the kitties, and it could get down right ugly.

Add Dragonfire Inspiration and you can throw flaming kittens. There's a commoner build out there that does something similar with improvised flaming chickens (Commoner feat from an April Fools issue of Dragon gives a 50% chance that any weapon you draw will turn into a chicken).

[Darrin]

Also, I just realized - instead of taking 6 Fighter Levels, we can take only 4 and grab COMPLETE WARRIOR SAMURAI to get exotic weapon prof. Then, fill the other level with Barbarian for Rage!


Ugh, no need to dip into that waste of paper. You can get EWP: Bastard Sword without wasting any feats by using the Weapon Group proficiencies in the UA section of the SRD.

Or just go dwarf + dwarven waraxe, as some others have already mentioned.

[hobbitguy1420]

problem with Dwarf and Dwarven waraxe is that it doesn't grant you EWP. it lets you count the waraxe as a martial weapon for MWP.

[TheThan]

The problem with the bastard sword and the dwarven war axe is they both allow you to use it as either a 2 hander or a one hander (with proficiency). Wielding it with two hands grants you a x1.5 strength bonus. However this is negated by the fact that you can wield a 1 handed weapon in two hands and get the x1.5 strength bonus. This totally ruins the entire point of having the weapon in the first place. Which is to say, you can switch from a two handed attack to carrying a shield/off hand weapon at will. You can do all that with a one handed sword and not burn a feat. So you spend a feat for two points of damage, which is pretty lame.
The only good thing is you can power attack at a 2:1 ratio, but then if you’re doing that, you might as well use a great sword.


I’ve house ruled that one-handed weapons do not impart that x1.5 strength thing. It actually makes the bastard sword viable.

Anyway that build drips style.

oh this would be pretty cool with orc double axes... or better yet dire flails!

[Chronicled]

What's even worse is my friend's Bloodstorm Blade build that throws auto-returning Spiked Chains for ranged trips and disarms. :smallyuk:

[Darrin]

What's even worse is my friend's Bloodstorm Blade build that throws auto-returning Spiked Chains for ranged trips and disarms. :smallyuk:


I was going to say, yeah, if you want to go exotic with Bloodstorm Blade, then use a Fullbade. Bloodstorm Blade allows you to make ranged melee attacks, which means you can Power Attack with your x2 strength bonus (on top of all your Leap Attack/Headlong Rush multipliers, I believe) to all your ranged attacks. And no worries about Returning enchantments and such, you get that for free as a class ability.

[Deepblue706]

The problem with the bastard sword and the dwarven war axe is they both allow you to use it as either a 2 hander or a one hander (with proficiency). Wielding it with two hands grants you a x1.5 strength bonus. However this is negated by the fact that you can wield a 1 handed weapon in two hands and get the x1.5 strength bonus. This totally ruins the entire point of having the weapon in the first place. Which is to say, you can switch from a two handed attack to carrying a shield/off hand weapon at will. You can do all that with a one handed sword and not burn a feat. So you spend a feat for two points of damage, which is pretty lame.
The only good thing is you can power attack at a 2:1 ratio, but then if you’re doing that, you might as well use a great sword.

What? No, Uncanny Blow gives you 2xSTR bonus instead of 1.5xSTR bonus when wielding a one-handed exotic weapon in two hands. That's why you get it first chance you can with Exotic Weapon Master. The Bastard Sword is a one-handed exotic weapon with a special loophole that allows it to wielded without proficiency if you use two hands.

So, if you have a +10 Modifier to strength, you get +20 to damage from strength when wielding it two-handed, as opposed to a normal two-handed weapon (which grants you +15 to damage instead). That's a difference of 5 damage - where the average bastard sword damage is 4.5, and a greatsword's average is 7. If you have ridiculous strength, you not only bridge that gap, but go beyond it. That's only to keep your damage up for when you need it - meanwhile, you grab countless other perks that allow you to take down crowds of people by hurling swords at them at lightning speed. Or grab a powerful shield when you're desperate (as a free action) and still be able to fight.

[Smiley_]

The loophole with the bastard sword is all well and good, except for one minor detail.

It is an exotic weapons master, not a martial weapons master. You need to take the exotic proficiency for the bastard sword to treat it as a one handed exotic weapon in the first place, otherwise, it is a two handed martial weapon and you cannot use EWM with it.

Sorry.

[Deepblue706]

The loophole with the bastard sword is all well and good, except for one minor detail.

It is an exotic weapons master, not a martial weapons master. You need to take the exotic proficiency for the bastard sword to treat it as a one handed exotic weapon in the first place, otherwise, it is a two handed martial weapon and you cannot use EWM with it.

Sorry.

Right, which is why I put EWP: Bastard Sword down as the second-level fighter feat.

[Smiley_]

I noticed that, buit I was trying to figure out what you meant when you said "The Bastard Sword is a one-handed exotic weapon with a special loophole that allows it to wielded without proficiency if you use two hands."

Anyway, the sword hucking orc is an interesting concept, but vast ammounts of cash would be needed for the returning enchantment's alone.

But as a DM, one could take an "artistic liberty" with their bad-guys.

[Raolin_Fenix]

Don't forget that monks and samurai have to be lawful. Barbarians have to be chaotic. You may not have both!

[BRC]

The point about the bastard sword is good, but that extra 2 damage can stack up. Also, with dwarves the dwarven waraxe counts as a martial weapon, so there is almost no reason not to use it. Same goes for somebody without longsword proficiency who wants to wield a sword one handed for some reason, (I don't know why, maybe they rolled a high strength score and thought why not, but they do) there is no real reason to go for a longsword over the bastard sword.

[SamTheCleric]

Monkeygrip large bastard swords!

[Smiley_]

A large bastard sword would be the equivalent of a fullblade (2d8 damage). Also, even if you do monkey-grip it, it would still be a size huge two handed weapon, and not apliccable to uncanny blow.

At least, I don't think so.

There was a +1 equivalent enchantment in the arms and equipment guide for 3.0 that allowed a large weaopn to be wielded in one hand, though, without penalty. Ballanced, I think iut was, but it is still a two handed weapon.

[Rockbird]

I see your bastard-sword chucker and raise you a...
Guy Dual-wielding Shotgunchucks
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c317/Cocatrice/Shotgun-chucksyo.jpg
Yes, i drew that. In like 30 minutes after reading this here thread of awesomitude :smallbiggrin:

[Rockphed]

Also, I just realized - instead of taking 6 Fighter Levels, we can take only 4 and grab COMPLETE WARRIOR SAMURAI to get exotic weapon prof. Then, fill the other level with Barbarian for Rage!

The problem is that you then take a multiclass penalty.

[Deepblue706]

I see your bastard-sword chucker and raise you a...
Guy Dual-wielding Shotgunchucks
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c317/Cocatrice/Shotgun-chucksyo.jpg
Yes, i drew that. In like 30 minutes after reading this here thread of awesomitude :smallbiggrin:

k;awn sdfvuasemnf s;aso39lsd
laskmftge]wtg\w m,'sgv/.v

I think I just had a stroke.

[Leon]

problem with Dwarf and Dwarven waraxe is that it doesn't grant you EWP. it lets you count the waraxe as a martial weapon for MWP.

It is noted in the requirements for the PrC that races that have a familiarity with an exotic weapon are considered to have the EWP feat for meeting the requirements

[SamTheCleric]

k;awn sdfvuasemnf s;aso39lsd
laskmftge]wtg\w m,'sgv/.v

I think I just had a stroke.

Wait wait wait... Flaming shotgun-chucks with bastard sword bayonets.

Wow, that was so awesome to think about that I got a little dizzy... :smallbiggrin:

[The_Snark]

I see your bastard-sword chucker and raise you a...
Guy Dual-wielding Shotgunchucks
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c317/Cocatrice/Shotgun-chucksyo.jpg
Yes, i drew that. In like 30 minutes after reading this here thread of awesomitude :smallbiggrin:

!!!!

Well, crap. That's hard to beat. The Blue Rajah build can employ shotguns as thrown weapons, I guess, but...

[Brawls]

My first thought was to take a level of warblade, that way you could swap all your weapon proficiencies and foci to any exotic weapon you want: bastard swords, spiked chains, whipknife, dwarven waraxe, Orc double axe, dire flail, two-bladed swords . . .

How much fun for BBEG to toss around bastard swords one encounter, then spiked chains the next.:smallbiggrin:

Brawls

[Flickerdart]

YES. The BBEG can carry around a Bag of Holding with random weapons in it and just toss 'em out. He can be like a Santa Claus for ninjas!

[TheThan]

What? No, Uncanny Blow gives you 2xSTR bonus instead of 1.5xSTR bonus when wielding a one-handed exotic weapon in two hands. That's why you get it first chance you can with Exotic Weapon Master. The Bastard Sword is a one-handed exotic weapon with a special loophole that allows it to wielded without proficiency if you use two hands.

So, if you have a +10 Modifier to strength, you get +20 to damage from strength when wielding it two-handed, as opposed to a normal two-handed weapon (which grants you +15 to damage instead). That's a difference of 5 damage - where the average bastard sword damage is 4.5, and a greatsword's average is 7. If you have ridiculous strength, you not only bridge that gap, but go beyond it. That's only to keep your damage up for when you need it - meanwhile, you grab countless other perks that allow you to take down crowds of people by hurling swords at them at lightning speed. Or grab a powerful shield when you're desperate (as a free action) and still be able to fight.

Yeah, I'm talking about core only. Things change when you move away from it, such as the builds in this thread. Not that I mind moving away from core, I'm just pointing out why it’s not so great with regards to a core game. I should have stated that first, my bad.




The point about the bastard sword is good, but that extra 2 damage can stack up. Also, with dwarves the dwarven waraxe counts as a martial weapon, so there is almost no reason not to use it. Same goes for somebody without longsword proficiency who wants to wield a sword one handed for some reason, (I don't know why, maybe they rolled a high strength score and thought why not, but they do) there is no real reason to go for a longsword over the bastard sword.


Yes, but exotic weapon proficiency requires a BAB of +1, when martial weapon proficiency doesn’t. So it’s even easier to pick up proficiency with a long sword. Not to mention elves are proficient with the long sword (Elves get too many “racial” weapons IMO).

I love the bastard sword, but really the rules kind of hinders it. Sad really.