PDA

View Full Version : Several little questions



Ellisthion
2008-03-13, 09:03 AM
I'm DMing my first *big* D&D game, and I keep running into little things... well...

1. How *exactly* does wild shape work? How do HPs, saves, etc work? If you turn into a creature with a bite/claw/claw, and it has multiattack, do you get multiattack too, or do you suck? Since animal companions get bonuses with levels, does this mean that turning into a given animal will be weaker than an animal companion of the same animal? Etc.

2. What is the correct pronunciation of Geas?

3. How exactly does Grease work? If they are not attempting to move, but just stand still, do they have to take Balance checks? Thus, if they pass the Reflex saves, can they avoid getting sneak-attacked just by not moving?

4. Can a Bard sing indefinately? If a Bard doesn't stop singing, can they effectively cover multiple encounters with one song use?

5. Can a Hydra AoO with all its head's? If you try to cut off a head without Improved Sunder, can all the heads AoO you?

6. Can a creature AoO with any of its available attacks, or only it's primary attack? Eg, an Adult Red Dragon does 2d8 + 11 with Bite, but 2d6 + 16 with Tail Slap. Can it choose to Tail Slap as AoO?

7. Dispel Magic, in Area Dispel mode, says it hits spells of the highest CL first. If you have several spells on, with equal CL, how is it chosen? Randomly? By order of casting?

I think that's it. Thanks in advance.

nagora
2008-03-13, 09:13 AM
I
2. What is the correct pronunciation of Geas?


Gay-ass or gay-as. Seriously. Just try to say it quickly and smoothly without any particular stress and it's fine. We studied geases in school and it wasn't until years later that I heard anyone make any comment about the possible puns.


7. Dispel Magic, in Area Dispel mode, says it hits spells of the highest CL first. If you have several spells on, with equal CL, how is it chosen? Randomly? By order of casting?

I don't know if there's an official 3ed ruling but random would seem fairest. You're the DM so you can decide; you could even pick the one that makes the most interesting plot twist if you want. You da man!

Hal
2008-03-13, 12:01 PM
4. Can a Bard sing indefinately? If a Bard doesn't stop singing, can they effectively cover multiple encounters with one song use?


IIRC, the text for Bardic Music states that the effect lasts 5 rounds past the time the bard ceases to perform, with no stated limit on the performance. I think being attacked during an ongoing performance requires concentration checks to keep it up.

Realistically, if the bard plans to use Bardic Music for more than a few minutes, I'd require CON checks to see if the voice/fingers/whatever can hold out.

Ogh_the_Second
2008-03-13, 12:15 PM
Realistically, if the bard plans to use Bardic Music for more than a few minutes, I'd require CON checks to see if the voice/fingers/whatever can hold out.

I think you're overdoing it, here. A few minutes? Take drumming, for example - a physically fairly demanding instrument. A professional can easily drum for an hour - often much more.

If you really want to put a limit to it, I'd rather say that the mental effect "wears thin" after a couple of minutes. Otherwise, let the player sing himself, or play a tape with the same song over and over, at a fairly high volume - and notice how soon other players/characters become irritated. And of course, said bard cannot normally communicate with the party.

Ogh_the_Second
2008-03-13, 12:19 PM
But, more on topic:

Wildshape:


At 5th level, a druid gains the ability to turn herself into any Small or Medium animal and back again once per day. Her options for new forms include all creatures with the animal type. This ability functions like the alternate form special ability, except as noted here. The effect lasts for 1 hour per druid level, or until she changes back. Changing form (to animal or back) is a standard action and doesn’t provoke an attack of opportunity. Each time you use wild shape, you regain lost hit points as if you had rested for a night.

Any gear worn or carried by the druid melds into the new form and becomes nonfunctional. When the druid reverts to her true form, any objects previously melded into the new form reappear in the same location on her body that they previously occupied and are once again functional. Any new items worn in the assumed form fall off and land at the druid's feet.

The form chosen must be that of an animal the druid is familiar with.

A druid loses her ability to speak while in animal form because she is limited to the sounds that a normal, untrained animal can make, but she can communicate normally with other animals of the same general grouping as her new form. (The normal sound a wild parrot makes is a squawk, so changing to this form does not permit speech.)

A druid can use this ability more times per day at 6th, 7th, 10th, 14th, and 18th level, as noted on Table: The Druid. In addition, she gains the ability to take the shape of a Large animal at 8th level, a Tiny animal at 11th level, and a Huge animal at 15th level.

The new form’s Hit Dice can’t exceed the character’s druid level. ...



Alternate Form
A creature with this special quality has the ability to assume one or more specific alternate forms. A true seeing spell or ability reveals the creature’s natural form. A creature using alternate form reverts to its natural form when killed, but separated body parts retain their shape. A creature cannot use alternate form to take the form of a creature with a template. Assuming an alternate form results in the following changes to the creature:

The creature retains the type and subtype of its original form. It gains the size of its new form. If the new form has the aquatic subtype, the creature gains that subtype as well.
The creature loses the natural weapons, natural armor, and movement modes of its original form, as well as any extraordinary special attacks of its original form not derived from class levels (such as the barbarian’s rage class feature).
The creature gains the natural weapons, natural armor, movement modes, and extraordinary special attacks of its new form.
The creature retains the special qualities of its original form. It does not gain any special qualities of its new form.
The creature retains the spell-like abilities and supernatural attacks of its old form (except for breath weapons and gaze attacks). It does not gain the spell-like abilities or attacks of its new form.
The creature gains the physical ability scores (Str, Dex, Con) of its new form. It retains the mental ability scores (Int, Wis, Cha) of its original form. Apply any changed physical ability score modifiers in all appropriate areas with one exception: the creature retains the hit points of its original form despite any change to its Constitution.
The creature retains its hit points and save bonuses, although its save modifiers may change due to a change in ability scores.
Except as described elsewhere, the creature retains all other game statistics of its original form, including (but not necessarily limited to) HD, hit points, skill ranks, feats, base attack bonus, and base save bonuses.
The creature retains any spellcasting ability it had in its original form, although it must be able to speak intelligibly to cast spells with verbal components and it must have humanlike hands to cast spells with somatic components.
The creature is effectively camouflaged as a creature of its new form, and it gains a +10 bonus on Disguise checks if it uses this ability to create a disguise.
Any gear worn or carried by the creature that can’t be worn or carried in its new form instead falls to the ground in its space. If the creature changes size, any gear it wears or carries that can be worn or carried in its new form changes size to match the new size. (Nonhumanoid-shaped creatures can’t wear armor designed for humanoid-shaped creatures, and vice versa.) Gear returns to normal size if dropped.

batsofchaos
2008-03-13, 12:21 PM
5. Can a Hydra AoO with all its head's? If you try to cut off a head without Improved Sunder, can all the heads AoO you?


Hydras have a modified form of Combat Reflexes that allows them to have on AoO every round for each head that it has. Combat reflexes allows only one attack per AoO presented. In other words, if you try and cut off a head without Improved Sunder, one head may AoO you. If a companion tries the same thing, then a different head can AoO them, etc. until the Hydra runs out of heads that have not used an AoO that round.

Ogh_the_Second
2008-03-13, 12:24 PM
On question 6:

An AaO can be made with any available weapon that threatens the provoking creature (including natural weapons, so yes - the dragon may either bite or slap, whatever it prefers).


On question 3:


A grease spell covers a solid surface with a layer of slippery grease. Any creature in the area when the spell is cast must make a successful Reflex save or fall. This save is repeated on your turn each round that the creature remains within the area. A creature can walk within or through the area of grease at half normal speed with a DC 10 Balance check. Failure means it can’t move that round (and must then make a Reflex save or fall), while failure by 5 or more means it falls (see the Balance skill for details).

Duke of URL
2008-03-13, 12:26 PM
3. They have to make the Reflex save every round (on your turn) that they are in the affected area, regardless of whether they try to move. Attempts to move require an additional Balance check. See the spell description (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/grease.htm) for full details.

6. You may take an AoO with any weapon at your disposal that allows an AoO.

Lord Iames Osari
2008-03-13, 12:28 PM
Gay-ass or gay-as. Seriously. Just try to say it quickly and smoothly without any particular stress and it's fine. We studied geases in school and it wasn't until years later that I heard anyone make any comment about the possible puns.

I would suggest more of a schwa value for the second syllable.

Lord Lorac Silvanos
2008-03-13, 12:50 PM
Ad 5)

Hydras have a modified form of Combat Reflexes that allows them to have on AoO every round for each head that it has. Combat reflexes allows only one attack per AoO presented. In other words, if you try and cut off a head without Improved Sunder, one head may AoO you. If a companion tries the same thing, then a different head can AoO them, etc. until the Hydra runs out of heads that have not used an AoO that round.

Hydras follow the normal rules for AoOs and are allowed to make an AoO using its standard form of attack, which in this case involves attacking with all its heads.
All combat reflexes does is to allow it to repeat this one extra time (12 DEX) per round if another opportunity presents itself.

batsofchaos
2008-03-13, 01:06 PM
Combat Reflexes:

Benefit
You may make a number of additional attacks of opportunity equal to your Dexterity bonus.

With this feat, you may also make attacks of opportunity while flat-footed.

Normal
A character without this feat can make only one attack of opportunity per round and can’t make attacks of opportunity while flat-footed.



A hydra’s Combat Reflexes feat allows it to use all its heads for attacks of opportunity.

Not trying to argue with you since it means the same thing, but it's still spelled out this way. W/O Combat Reflexes, a creature gets one AoO per round.

Lord Lorac Silvanos
2008-03-13, 01:12 PM
Not trying to argue with you since it means the same thing, but it's still spelled out this way. W/O Combat Reflexes, a creature gets one AoO per round.

A single Hydra attack is made with all its head at once.
With or without combat reflexes an AoO by a Hydra involves all heads.


Attack: X bites


This line shows the single attack the creature makes with an attack action. In most cases, this is also the attack the creature uses when making an attack of opportunity as well.

batsofchaos
2008-03-13, 01:41 PM
Hmm. I misread it. So a hydra gets one AoO per round, but that attack is with all of its heads.

Lord Lorac Silvanos
2008-03-13, 01:59 PM
Hmm. I misread it.

The wording is very poor and it most certainly should have been errataed into something readable or at least covered by the FAQ.


So a hydra gets one AoO per round, but that attack is with all of its heads.

Exactly. Combat Reflexes would allow a second.

Tsotha-lanti
2008-03-13, 02:21 PM
A single Hydra attack is made with all its head at once.
With or without combat reflexes an AoO by a Hydra involves all heads.

After reading this thread, I'm totally houseruling it the other way (total number of AoOs one per head, each AoO is one bite attack). Way less unbalanced and more fun, if you ask me.

Lord Lorac Silvanos
2008-03-13, 02:29 PM
After reading this thread, I'm totally houseruling it the other way (total number of AoOs one per head, each AoO is one bite attack). Way less unbalanced and more fun, if you ask me.

The Hydra has several easily exploitable weaknesses, so I do not think the ability to attack with all heads are unbalancing at all.

I actually think it is very fitting for the creature and that it makes sense, I mean why would all the other heads just look in amazement and ignore an obvious opportunity when it presents itself?

batsofchaos
2008-03-13, 02:37 PM
After reading this thread, I'm totally houseruling it the other way (total number of AoOs one per head, each AoO is one bite attack). Way less unbalanced and more fun, if you ask me.

I'd agree, except that a hydra apparently has the bite of a little girl. An attack does 1d10 + 1/2 # of heads (rounded up), so the average damage for a six-headed hydra is 8, or 1 1/3 hp per bite. That's pathetic.

A more sensical take (though certainly not RAW) would be that a given attack by a hydra results in attempting to bite with all heads at once, but only landing one or two solid bites.

Tsotha-lanti
2008-03-13, 02:46 PM
I'd agree, except that a hydra apparently has the bite of a little girl. An attack does 1d10 + 1/2 # of heads (rounded up), so the average damage for a six-headed hydra is 8, or 1 1/3 hp per bite. That's pathetic.

... what?

The damage is 1d10 + Str modifier. And the attack block for a 6-headed hydra reads:

6 bites +8 melee (1d10+3)

That's 6 attacks, each at a +8 bonus, each dealing an average of 8.5 points of damage. Against AC 20, that's .45 x 8.5 x 6 = 22.95 damage. Against AC 25, it's 10.2.

Lord Lorac Silvanos
2008-03-13, 02:48 PM
I'd agree, except that a hydra apparently has the bite of a little girl. An attack does 1d10 + 1/2 # of heads (rounded up), so the average damage for a six-headed hydra is 8, or 1 1/3 hp per bite. That's pathetic.


A single attack of a six headed Hydra includes 6 attack rolls each dealing 1d10+3 points of damage potentially.

Hal
2008-03-13, 04:44 PM
I think you're overdoing it, here. A few minutes? Take drumming, for example - a physically fairly demanding instrument. A professional can easily drum for an hour - often much more.

If you really want to put a limit to it, I'd rather say that the mental effect "wears thin" after a couple of minutes. Otherwise, let the player sing himself, or play a tape with the same song over and over, at a fairly high volume - and notice how soon other players/characters become irritated. And of course, said bard cannot normally communicate with the party.

Is this without break? Because I would argue that any break in the song ends the effect (with the +5 rounds yet to come).

Granted, stamina is going to be different for each type of performance. A drummer can probably hold out longer than a singer, but probably not as long as the guy reading poetry. But rather than have 100 different rules for the various different types of Perform a person can take ranks in, it seems like it would just be easier (and more balanced) to say that, after 5 minutes (or whatever), your fingers/voice/arms/etc. get tired.

But that's not RAW, so your mileage may vary.

senrath
2008-03-13, 05:32 PM
Personally, for the bardic music, I'd rule that it can be kept up indefinitely, with some conditions. First, there mustn't be any breaks in the performance, at all (just standard stuff). Second, moving over anything other than relatively flat terrain requires a concentration check in order to keep playing. And third, just make some general rules based on the character's abilities and Perform stats. A bard with more ranks in the Perform skill would be able to continue the song longer than one with fewer ranks. Also, a bard with a higher Con score could probably keep singing for longer, or playing, depending on the instrument. With a string instrument I'd probably bring Dex into play as well.

Just remember that some songs (Countersong, Fascinate, and Inspire Competence) have specific durations built into them (Inspire Freedom sort of does, as well. It always takes 1 minute, but since it's a single use song there would be no point in trying to sing it for longer). And also remember that if the people affected by the bard song can no longer hear the song, it stops working.

Severus
2008-03-13, 05:44 PM
"A Geas (pronounced "GESCH") is a kind of magical obligation, prohibition, or taboo that a person may possess. Some modern Druids use the Geas as a kind of curse, a magical "binding" or "blockage of energy" (to prevent someone from doing something). "

Stolen from a druidic website. Geas is Irish Gaelic, and Geasa are involved in a bunch of Irish Sagas.

Traditionally they are forms of taboos that a character cannot do or something dreadful will happen to them. They can be anything like "don't kiss a red-headed woman" or "never stay two nights under the same roof."

Ellisthion
2008-03-14, 01:47 AM
3. They have to make the Reflex save every round (on your turn) that they are in the affected area, regardless of whether they try to move. Attempts to move require an additional Balance check. See the spell description (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/grease.htm) for full details.

Yeah, I know that. Don't assume I haven't read the rules. What I'm specifically asking is, if you remain still, does it make you are not Balancing and thus immune to being sneak attacked (assuming Balance ranks < 5), and thus would be the best option against being Greased?

Hmm... since you don't get feats when wildshaping, does that mean using a bite/claw/claw is a waste of time, since you don't have multiattack?

Thanks everyone!

Chosen_of_Vecna
2008-03-14, 09:36 AM
Yeah, I know that. Don't assume I haven't read the rules. What I'm specifically asking is, if you remain still, does it make you are not Balancing and thus immune to being sneak attacked (assuming Balance ranks < 5), and thus would be the best option against being Greased?

I would say you are still balancing. It's not written there, but I think it's safe to say that the balancing applies to standing on the slippery stuff and making combat actions, since the whole point of flat-footed is you aren't ready to move if you need to. So I would say, if you can't move to dodge without balancing you are either choosing to be flat footed or choosing to balance.

Also, even if you weren't flat footed just standing, I'd say getting out of the grease is usually still a better option then making repeated reflex saves every round.


Hmm... since you don't get feats when wildshaping, does that mean using a bite/claw/claw is a waste of time, since you don't have multiattack?

Well since Secondary natural attacks don't cause any penalty to primary attacks I would say you are wasting your actions if you don't claw/claw after your bite.

Also note that you can take Multiattack yourself, you just have to have multiple natural attacks, which you do have any time after 5th level.

Ellisthion
2008-03-16, 12:09 AM
Well since Secondary natural attacks don't cause any penalty to primary attacks I would say you are wasting your actions if you don't claw/claw after your bite.

Ah, okay. That makes sense now.

Thanks for opinion on Grease. One last thing: if you move out of the Grease effect, are you counted as flat footed 'til your next turn because you were balancing during some part of you move?

Chosen_of_Vecna
2008-03-16, 12:51 AM
Ah, okay. That makes sense now.

Thanks for opinion on Grease. One last thing: if you move out of the Grease effect, are you counted as flat footed 'til your next turn because you were balancing during some part of you move?

Not a real expert, but I'd say yes.

Lord Lorac Silvanos
2008-03-16, 02:34 AM
Not a real expert either, but you are only balancing as long as your movement requires balance checks.
When you leave an area that requires balance checks, say the area of a grease spell, you are no longer considered balancing and not flat-footed either.
In cases like this it is irrelevant what you have done earlier on your turn it is the current condition that counts.

Chosen_of_Vecna
2008-03-16, 03:57 AM
Not a real expert either, but you are only balancing as long as your movement requires balance checks.
When you leave an area that requires balance checks, say the area of a grease spell, you are no longer considered balancing and not flat-footed either.
In cases like this it is irrelevant what you have done earlier on your turn it is the current condition that counts.

I can certainly see the logic in that, but as far as turn based combat goes, if you run over an area that requires balance checks you'll most of the time do it in one turn. So that means you are never actually balancing on someone elses turn.

It just seems to make a lot more sense as: You were balancing at some point while you took this precise move action, therefore for this move action, you were balancing.