Fox News is NOT a bad information source

[Alex Warlorn]

Just cast a 'speak with animals' spells and bingo, you're in business. And it's not like anyone cares if a fox is listening in on your conversation, since the average person isn't going to think 'oh no, druid in disguise.'

[Sleet]

Just cast a 'speak with animals' spells and bingo, you're in business. And it's not like anyone cares if a fox is listening in on your conversation, since the average person isn't going to think 'oh no, druid in disguise.'

It's still only as smart as a fox, though. It's likely limited to thoughts like "That's food," "That's not food," "I can climb that", "That might eat me," "Nearest place to hide," and "Girl foxes are nice."

[Burley]

Well, I assume, since they're all gnomes, and Foxes fall under the "Burrowing Animal" section of the gnome's racial ability, they were using speak with animal. So...yeah.

On the topic of how much information you'd get from the animal. An animal can't have an intelligence of 3 or higher, but the spell via SRD:
You can comprehend and communicate with animals. You are able to ask questions of and receive answers from animals, although the spell doesn’t make them any more friendly or cooperative than normal. Furthermore, wary and cunning animals are likely to be terse and evasive, while the more stupid ones make inane comments. If an animal is friendly toward you, it may do some favor or service for you.

The wording implies that the animal could try to give sly answers. A fox would definately fall under the "cunning animal" rather than the "stupid animal" category. If the gnomes were getting their information from the fox, there's a good chance it was misleading and directing the audience to believe what it wanted them to believe.

Haha...it's even MORE like Fox News...

[BisectedBrioche]

In other news, gnomes have started turning away bards in case they start telling the corrupting story "Massive Alteration". :smallwink:

[Alex Warlorn]

"Haha...it's even MORE like Fox News..."

I've never gotten that stereo type.

[Nerd-o-rama]

"Haha...it's even MORE like Fox News..."

I've never gotten that stereo type.
EDIT: You know what? I've gotten too many annoying warnings for minor rules violations, and I don't know how to explain this without going into politics and earning a whack from the Warnhammer. Let's just leave it at "some people are of the opinion that Fox News has a political bias". I won't go into detail as to why we believe that, because this isn't the board for it.

[Tempest Fennac]

To be honest, the speak with Animal rules contradicting the ridiculous "animals aren't sentinet" rule to a degree is another reason why I'd just have 10 for the Int and Cha stats for an average animal (I tend to class the idea that the most intelligent animal is more stupid that the least intelligent human to be ridiculously specisist while having little bearing on real life). To be fair, the fox would probably only be useful for information on other animals in the local area, and possibly as far as information on weather and earthquakes are concerned (animals seem to be able to notice these things before they become noticable).


EDIT: If anyone wants to discuss this with me, PM me to avoid the thread being sidetracked with references from psychic animal communicators.

[strayth]

It's true; foxes only give you the news in a fair and impartial manner.

Yip, yip oil prices indeed.

[tbarrie]

It's still only as smart as a fox, though. It's likely limited to thoughts like "That's food," "That's not food," "I can climb that", "That might eat me," "Nearest place to hide," and "Girl foxes are nice."

Also, oddly enough, "Three hobbits sleeping outside? That's peculiar."

[Pie Guy]

I'm pretty sure they're smoking something (Fox News).
They did a report on whether a local town hall was haunted.

[Cuddly]

I'm pretty sure they're smoking something (Fox News).
They did a report on whether a local town hall was haunted.

Yeah, they're smoking "well show anything to get you to watch this" just like every other news program. TV isn't about learning things, it's about being entertained.

[Xuincherguixe]

Heh. Great misleading thread title.

[ABB]

EDIT: You know what? I've gotten too many annoying warnings for minor rules violations, and I don't know how to explain this without going into politics and earning a whack from the Warnhammer. Let's just leave it at "some people are of the opinion that Fox News has a political bias". I won't go into detail as to why we believe that, because this isn't the board for it.

Since rich did bring up the whole "Fox news" thing, it would be arch hypocrisy for a mod to ding anyone for commenting on it.

Then again, I've never seen looking like a hypocrite stop a mod either...

[Wolf53226]

EDIT: You know what? I've gotten too many annoying warnings for minor rules violations, and I don't know how to explain this without going into politics and earning a whack from the Warnhammer. Let's just leave it at "some people are of the opinion that Fox News has a political bias". I won't go into detail as to why we believe that, because this isn't the board for it.

Honestly, I can't name a news source that DOESN'T have a political bias one way or another. FOX just doesn't try to pretend it doesn't as much. But I agree with you and ABB, just because Rich opened the door, doesn't mean that we have to step through it and break board rules.


Just cast a 'speak with animals' spells and bingo, you're in business. And it's not like anyone cares if a fox is listening in on your conversation, since the average person isn't going to think 'oh no, druid in disguise.'

Your right...I would be thinking, WHAT THE F@#$ IS A FOX DOING THAT CLOSE TO ME!!!! They do tend to avoid things that hunt and kill them.

[FujinAkari]

Honestly, I can't name a news source that DOESN'T have a political bias one way or another. FOX just doesn't try to pretend it doesn't as much. But I agree with you and ABB, just because Rich opened the door, doesn't mean that we have to step through it and break board rules.

Whats kinda funny is that Fox -does- try to pretend it doesn't, just not as well as the other guys. Remember the "Fair and Balanced" thing? :P

[Remirach]

I was a little bit surprised to see even such a tame jab at Fox. I'm not a fan, so it made me laugh, but this is the first strip I ever thought took on even a whiff of something vaguely political.

[silvadel]

First and last (I hope) -- I was going to introduce my father to oots but that one would really turn him off.

As for the intelligence of animals -- I have seen my cat:

1) be utterly BORED (something I havent seen in any other animal)

2) open doors to let other cats into an area only to trap them there

3) dime out other cats when the cats are being manicured

4) meticulously search an area for toys and collect them all into a pile

5) see that I have five balls not just one and refuse to bring any back till I am out of them.

6) come to its name less fast than coming to the name of another cat if you call it

7) upon being told to be careful walk across a huge amount of breakables without knocking anything over -- even keeping track of its tail.

8) on its own connect the bathtub with water enough to go there to tell humans who have trouble understanding it sometimes that it wants a drink.

---

soooo I think smart animals definitely have more intelligence than 1 -- I would be suprised if my cat didnt have at least 4.

[Holammer]

Heh. Great misleading thread title.

I have to admit to seeing red (literally, I'm such a pinko) when I saw the thread title myself, I was quite ready to unleash red-hot flames into the thread, what a bummer.
At least I don't have to get rapped by mods now.

[Gravedjinn]

I am going to put this out there just as an addition explination.
I dont really know if it is a board violation or not but this is just simply a statment of what is considered to be the general fact/stereo type of what ever one is beating around for some reason.... i dont see this as a political discussion beyond that it might be possible that the giant is just pokeing a stick at a new company he doesnt not personally care for.

It is typically considered that most media in the US is of a liberal political veiw.That encompasses such companies like headline news CNN, NY times, washington post ect ect.
However it is also widely considered that Fox news is considered the "Conservative" news station.
Thus makeing them outsiders to a great many of the other news media organizations.

Like i said im not trying to make a political point here, Only tring to clarify what some people are confused on so that you guy might understand the joke a bit more.

[Sisqui]

http://216.239.51.104/search?q=cache:tCEKSNVW-OYJ:mason.gmu.edu/~atabarro/MediaBias.doc+drudge%3F&hl=en

[Demented]

Hey, at least Fox Sports isn't biased.
Except that the Cliffport Red-Tails always seem to get more praise than the Greysky Ghouls or the Azure City Sapphires. I wonder why.

Also, hunting with dogs is never fairly represented.

[Clertar]

Yeah, they're smoking "well show anything to get you to watch this" just like every other news program. TV isn't about learning things, it's about being entertained.

The news media just focus on bull**** (http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=_9AH-ufAkCU). :smallcool:

[Kurald Galain]

It's still only as smart as a fox, though. It's likely limited to thoughts like "That's food," "That's not food," "I can climb that", "That might eat me," "Nearest place to hide," and "Girl foxes are nice."

Well, I know some newspapers that don't get any more informative than this...

[Nerd-o-rama]

Since rich did bring up the whole "Fox news" thing, it would be arch hypocrisy for a mod to ding anyone for commenting on it.

Then again, I've never seen looking like a hypocrite stop a mod either...

Really, I wonder about the whole Speak With Animals spell. If Int 1 and 2 animals aren't smart enough to have their own language (which other spells imply they do not, and SwA circumvents this somehow), are they really going to be smart enough to answer questions posed to them, even when they can understand? Of course, some would say that since animals like foxes can coordinate in social groups, the answer is yes, but that would seem to be more instinctual. Of course, animal behavior is a remarkably unknown and developing field, so we don't really know how self-aware a fox is.

[bluish_wolf]

I thought the spell is more along the lines of telepathy and posing the questions out loud is just part of the ritual- it really doesn't do anything.

[Vincentrose91]

I think that is was stupid of him to put "Fox News" in there as a political joke. i don't want to get really into it, but here is my main point; When i am reading a webcomic about dnd, i don't want to see political jokes that are offensive! It is as simple as that! You messed up Rich. My respect for you fell over 9000!

[NikkTheTrick]

Fox News were just asking for that joke to be made. Really. A fox. With a name like that, a joke is guaranteed. Especially given that gnomes are quite close with nature.

Besides, all TV news are biased anyway. Simply because they are run by people and people are always biased. Those who claim not to be are liars. Which is why I listen to all kind of news (thanks to internet, I can look up news of different nations). Then, I form my own opinion. Of course, that opinion is still biased, but at least that is MY bias. And mine is the correct one:smallamused:

[Tempest Fennac]

I know what you mean, Nerd-o-rama (that's why I'd class animals as having a base Int of 10 unless there was a reason for it to be higher or lower).

[Hell Puppi]

I rather thought it was kind of funny that we were expecting and got...an actual fox.

[Farmer42]

The Int Rules are weird. I have to agree with you, Nerd-O-Rama. My border collie has herded humans without them realizing it. Nothing beats the dog with OCD herding everyone into a corner.

Edit: As far as Fox News goes, many people have problems with it not because of the political bias (bias happens), but because several of their personalities are unmitigated asses.

[Tempest Fennac]

What does OCR mean? (Admittedly, I'd take that as being a successful "Handle Humans" check, which I think would suggest high Cha:smalltongue: ).

[Farmer42]

Obsessive Compulsive Disorder. He's more than a might bit anal retentive. This dog has actually moved furniture before because we changed the layout of the room and he didn't feel it was necessary.

[Tempest Fennac]

Thanks for telling me. That is unusual (admittedly, I heard about 1 dog not showing any interest in presents under a Christmas tree until Christmas day, so that doesn't surprise me that much).

[Helanna]

Honestly, I don't see why people are getting upset about this so-called political dig. Rich may or may not have been making a political joke. He WAS making A joke. As was said before: come on, Fox news? It was begging for it. And since Rich needed a joke and the gnome needed a reason to be travelling to an occupied city, Fox News became faulty.

It could have been a political joke but at the basic level, it's just a joke and a motivation.

[Tundar]

I'm not from the US, and don't watch Fox news.
I'm just aware of their existence and their rather bleaked reputation. I don't care what their political views are, the joke is still funny :smallbiggrin:

Yip yip!

[Nerd-o-rama]

Yeah, getting offended about the strip is rather silly. It's an awesomely bad pun, not a political comment. And I'm trying my damnedest not to speak my mind and make this into a political forums topic, which really would offend people (the mods, at least).

[Letifer]

I think it's interesting that Fox News has such... notoriety, that a simple pun with the name causes people to assume Rich is making a political statement. If you feel the need to jump to the defense of anything at the least provocation, perhaps you need to look at why?

Anyway, what does an int of 4 represent in DnD? I thought 1 was basically a rock?

[Taliesan]

Just for the people wondering where the joke comes from:

Fox News is an infamously bad news channel in the US. Apart from the bias that makes even mentioning it inately political (Think about how bad a news source has to be for that to be the case) it is known for having gone to court in order to defend its right to fire reporters for refusing to lie.

Frankly, you would be better getting your news from The Onion, than from Fox News.

Now, for my question on this: Is there a smite me smiley?

[Roderick_BR]

EDIT: You know what? I've gotten too many annoying warnings for minor rules violations, and I don't know how to explain this without going into politics and earning a whack from the Warnhammer. Let's just leave it at "some people are of the opinion that Fox News has a political bias". I won't go into detail as to why we believe that, because this isn't the board for it.
As an extra explaination, that opinion can be applied to any media, for any company. The Giant just used Fox, because he could symbolize it with something in OotS. Trying to find a symbol for something like ABC or CNN would be harder.

[zillion ninjas]

You messed up Rich. My respect for you fell over 9000!

Oh, c'mon, you can do better than that. It goes like this:

:furious: IT FELL OVER NINE THOUSAAAAAAND!!! (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22over+9000%22&btnG=Google+Search)


Personally, the only news source I trust is The Daily Show. :smallwink:

[warmachine]

As an extra explaination, that opinion [Fox News has a political bias] can be applied to any media, for any company. The Giant just used Fox, because he could symbolize it with something in OotS. Trying to find a symbol for something like ABC or CNN would be harder.
That doesn't really fly in a fantasy world where the imaginative author can invent anything he wants. He could invent a talking peacock or show the National Enquirer if he wanted to. I doubt that Fox News being considered the most biased and the author choosing it to be the unreliable news source is a coincidence.

[Tempest Fennac]

In regards to Letifer's question, anything with an Int which is less then 3 in D&D is classed as non-sentinet. Animals always have an Int of either 1 or 2 (a lot of dinosaurs seem to have 1 rather then 2). I don't think WotC ever bothered to try explaining how animals aren't sentinet when they clearly are (while often having better Int then a lot of humans).

[Lissibith]

That doesn't really fly in a fantasy world where the imaginative author can invent anything he wants. He could invent a talking peacock or show the National Enquirer if he wanted to. I doubt that Fox News being considered the most biased and the author choosing it to be the unreliable news source is a coincidence.

I dunno, it very well could be. However, the juxtoposition of a news outlet with a name that could clearly be a noun, and the source turning out to be said noun? Not coincidence. Joke. Showing the "National Enquirer" wouldn't be as much a joke, and it's not called "Peacock news" (Though I might watch it more often if it were :-) ) I think anyone bothered by this is really looking for a reason to be offended.

[Nerd-o-rama]

In regards to Letifer's question, anything with an Int which is less then 3 in D&D is classed as non-sentinet. Animals always have an Int of either 1 or 2 (a lot of dinosaurs seem to have 1 rather then 2). I don't think WotC ever bothered to try explaining how animals aren't sentinet when they clearly are (while often having better Int then a lot of humans).Non-sapient. Int 1 or 2 means non-sapient. All sentient means is that they can perceive their surroundings (which anything with a Wis score that isn't 0 or null can.)

I blame this confusion of terms in Star Trek's technojargon. Yet another atrocity against science committed by those writers...

[Chronos]

The thing is, this isn't a joke about Rupert Murdoch's network at all. It's a joke about gnomes. Even if NBC had a channel called Peacock News, it still wouldn't have worked, because gnomes have a Speak with Animals ability that only works with burrowing animals. In D&D games, gnomes really do often get information from critters like foxes, so it becomes natural to make a joke about information gathered in such way being "Fox News". The joke would work just as well no matter how fairly or competently the TV network reports the news; it would not have worked as well or at all if the network had a different name.

So, any gnomes out there have justification to get offended at this. But humans of any political stripe don't.

[Firestar27]

When I saw these Fox News jokes I just laughed:
http://www.funnyfarmcomics.com/d/20080306.html
http://www.funnyfarmcomics.com/d/20080315.html

And those comics were made just about a week and a few days before The Giant made his Fox News strip. Maybe they have some sort of secret telepathy (or maybe I'm just going crazy).

[Vincentrose91]

Fox News is an infamously bad news channel in the US. Apart from the bias that makes even mentioning it inately political (Think about how bad a news source has to be for that to be the case) it is known for having gone to court in order to defend its right to fire reporters for refusing to lie.


Wow you are..... let's just say that gives you a -3 modifier to int. It was a practically a drive-by attack on fox news. Anyone that says drive-by insults to something totally unrelated to the strip's theme has got to be heavily biased. I would be just as angry if Rich did this to any other...... anything really! Who cares if it was a little joke, it was still offensive!

People like Taliesan, and apparently Rich as well are really just angry at fox news for being the ratings (http://www.mediaweek.com/mw/newsletters/proginsider/index.jsp) leader. YOU just cannot handle a fair news channel. i know that it sucks that fox news isn't as liberal as CNN or ABC, but that doesn't mean it needs to be insulted this much just because you disagree!

By-the-way, Cite your sources.

[Nightmarenny]

Wow you are..... let's just say that gives you a -3 modifier to int. It was a practically a drive-by attack on fox news. Anyone that says drive-by insults to something totally unrelated to the strip's theme has got to be heavily biased. I would be just as angry if Rich did this to any other...... anything really! Who cares if it was a little joke, it was still offensive!

People like Taliesan, and apparently Rich as well are really just angry at fox news for being the ratings (http://www.mediaweek.com/mw/newsletters/proginsider/index.jsp) leader. YOU just cannot handle a fair news channel. i know that it sucks that fox news isn't as liberal as CNN or ABC, but that doesn't mean it needs to be insulted this much just because you disagree!

By-the-way, Cite your sources.
See this is why we can't have nice things. Hopefully a mod will lock this thread soon but first, I must say that if you think Fox is fair you have a serious bias. No news group is fair, and CNN and Fox are about the worst.

[Paragon Badger]

Wow you are..... let's just say that gives you a -3 modifier to int. It was a practically a drive-by attack on fox news. Anyone that says drive-by insults to something totally unrelated to the strip's theme has got to be heavily biased. I would be just as angry if Rich did this to any other...... anything really! Who cares if it was a little joke, it was still offensive!

People like Taliesan, and apparently Rich as well are really just angry at fox news for being the ratings (http://www.mediaweek.com/mw/newsletters/proginsider/index.jsp) leader. YOU just cannot handle a fair news channel. i know that it sucks that fox news isn't as liberal as CNN or ABC, but that doesn't mean it needs to be insulted this much just because you disagree!

By-the-way, Cite your sources.

O'Reilly, is that you?


Personally, the only news source I trust is The Daily Show.

Can't trust them, either. At least on matters of economics. Despite being savvy with politics, Jon Stewart is clueless in that area.

To be fair, Jim Kramer's fault was being vague- not wrong. The caller asked if his money was safe, not neccesarily his stock.

[FoE]

I would be just as angry if Rich did this to any other...... anything really! Who cares if it was a little joke, it was still offensive!

You know, it's not even really a swipe at Fox News. That's what you think the punchline is going to be (because everyone criticizes the RL Fox News), but really, it's just a joke about how unreliable little forest animals are for information. Get it?

Can someone lock this thread already?

[Serpentine]

That doesn't really fly in a fantasy world where the imaginative author can invent anything he wants. He could invent a talking peacock or show the National Enquirer if he wanted to. I doubt that Fox News being considered the most biased and the author choosing it to be the unreliable news source is a coincidence.He could, but that wouldn't be funny, and the National Enquirer isn't notoriously point-and-laugh-atable (you want evidence? We know about Fox News in Australia. We even see some of the more absurd footage on our own TV. We don't hear anything about the National Enquirer).

What's with the overreaction? :smallconfused: Well done to the OP, though :smallbiggrin:

[Tempest Fennac]

Sorry for getting confused, Nerd-o-rama (I still find the idea of animals having such a low Int to be ridiculous considering how there's plenty of evidence that they can learn things on their own while ignoring instinct).

[Serpentine]

Erm... On the subject of animal intelligence (which is a very interesting one, I might add), it wasn't long ago that it was assumed that animals couldn't experience emotions. At the moment, or such is the impression I got from my Animal Behaviour class, the emphasis is on self-awareness. Normally simple experiments involving mirrors and the like. More animals that was expected can recognise themselves in a mirror, but still there are plenty that can't. One notable experiment showed that pigeons could do better on an IQ test than a class of uni students (just the spatial awareness part of it, though). We're still having trouble, though, just defining what exactly "intelligence" is. For D&D's purposes, it's human standards of intelligence, which must still be different to that of animals. I would consider the possibility of making animal intelligences more flexible, though... Take chimpanzees, for example. Chimpanzees have been shown to have approximately the intelligence of a 4-year-old human. Either 4-year-old humans have an Int 2, or the chimpanzee Int is something else. It'd have to be done on an animal-by-animal basis, though, and I doubt there'd be many, if any, that warrant an Int 10. Another thing that bugs me about Int is that depending on the creature type, Int 3 is either "dumb as a rock" or "surprisingly cunning"...
Uh... what were we talking about? Oh, right, foxes. It'd be hard translating "and they smelled of fear and pheromones!" into something meaningful.

[Tempest Fennac]

I know my animal communication skills aren't the best in the world, but I've not noticed them to be less intelligent then humans (I tend to see them as being at least as intelligent as humans while being intelligent in a diffeeent way rather then lacking Int altogether). As you said, though, calculating what intelligence is can be awkward (there's been a lot of controversy over anthropolical studies due to the researchers often using ethnocentric study methods which make "primitive" societies look less inteligent when the actual problem is that the societies who are being studied have problems with the Western tests Obviously, if this sort of thing happens with other humans, there's a really high chance of it happening with other spesices as well).

[Demented]

I've noticed animals (at least, pets I've met) to be plenty less intelligent than humans.

On the other hand, if I lived as easy and undemanding of a life as they do, I'd be dumb as a rock too. Wild animals are... different.

By the same token, I've noticed animals to not be as stupid as humans either.

I wonder if that means anything.

[Tempest Fennac]

That is a brilliant point about domestic animals (ironically, I had a cat once who figured out to look both ways when crossing roads, which suggests that he was smarter then a lot of wild phesants who have no road sense at all). It could mean something (I just need to figure out what it exactly means).

[Firestar27]

Actually, I doubt that all of these anecdotes are detailing high animal intelligence. It's high animal Wisdom. Intelligence (at least in DnD) is memorization, abstract concepts, learning ability, etc. But it isn't cleverness. Being aware, not being fooled, Realizing what is and isn't a bad descision: That's all wisdom.

[Serpentine]

Hm. Y'know, now I think of it, I think I'd be for letting animals still be Animals with an Int 3, but have it reserved for things like, off the top of my head: dolphins, various apes, crows, dolphins and other cetacians (sp?), and possibly cuttlefish, squid and octopuses.
Problem solving, by the way, is another big part of D&D and real-life intelligence, and also one of the easier tested ones. The animals I listed above all have demonstrated significant problem solving ability. I even remember hearing a few years ago that crows in Sydney would figure out how to get some sort of food put in a sort of puzzle (dangling from a string off a stick, for example), spend a while figuring it out, then tell the next crow to come along how to get at it. Problem solving + communication + cooperation. Beware the crow! :smalleek:
Pity this is getting so far off topic, this is something I'm very interested in...

[Tempest Fennac]

I'm pretty certain that animals often remember things, and how can you test them in regards to abstract concepts without being able to speak their language? Adding to Serpentine's point, crows in Japan were able to figure out how to use traffic lights to retrieve nuts which cars had cracked for them, which covers learning ability (I would have thought that any animal which couldn't learn would be done for if the environment around them changed for any reason*). Serpentine, if you're interested I posted the animal communication instructions which I used when learning how to do it here: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-59613.html .

[Serpentine]

Without knowing their language - if they have one - we just have to do the best we can and hope our successors can build on it to do better. Memory is another thing being tested, and some animals so far have it, some don't, some have different types or can only remember certain types of things. I'd also like to point out, Fennec, though, that adaptation doesn't necessarily equal learning. Instinct, variation and sheer genetics play the biggest roles - and, indeed, the ability to learn is itself dependent on genetics.
I'm rather sceptical about such things as your animal communication thing, but it would be so awesome to be able to do I'm gonna try to look at it carefully anyway.

[Taliesan]

Vincentrose91

Steve Wilson and Jane Akre. They were fired for refusing to include false information on their report on Montesanto's production of RBGH.

Look up the names if you don't believe me.

They sued Fox News and won the first case. In the appeal, Fox won on the grounds that the FCC's policy against falsification was not a rule or a regulation, and thus the two reporters were not subject to the protections normally due to whistle-blowers.

IE: They argued that the news has the right to force its reporters to tell you lies - and won.

This was precedent setting case law and part of the general degredation of the US press' reliability.

So please, tell me again how my intelligence is below 0 Fox fan?

[Sylian]

Why should this thread be locked? It's not whether neo-liberalism/conservatism is bad or not, it's whether Fox News are bad. Yes, they are. Studies and interviews with Fox News-viewrs and non-Fox News-viewers has shown that a majority (or it could be around 40%) of the viewers believes that bonds between Al Quida and Saddam Hussein were found. Now, does that say something about the viewers or the channel? Or perhaps both?

Not only that. Watch O'Reilly. See how he says: "Cut his mic" all the time? Or, what about "Shut up!"? Is that fair and balanced? No, that's censurship. Also, Fox News have reported that the situation in Iraq is better now. That's not true at all. If it was, then why are people fleeing the country?

Fox News isn't reliable at all, whether your a liberal, conservative or socialist.

[NikkTheTrick]

Not only that. Watch O'Reilly. See how he says: "Cut his mic" all the time? Or, what about "Shut up!"?
I do not recall meeting any FOX named O'Reilly. And neither do I recall any foxes knowing about microphones, so what are you talking about? And while yes the do sometimes tell me to shut up, that is mostly when I start talking about fur coats. That makes them nervous for some strange reason. Same with cows - they do not understand why beef is so tasty:smallamused:

[Surfing HalfOrc]

Ummm... What do the political biases of Fox News, CNN, ABC, NBC, CBS, MSNBC, Bill O'Rielly, Rhandi Rhodes, Glenn Beck or Al Frankin have to do with Roy, Haley, Belkar, Durkon, Elan or Vaarsuvius? :smallfrown:

Seriously, I don't care! At least not here!

If you want pointless, no one will change their minds no matter the facts, fake anger, real anger, or otherwise, go to the appropriate forums readily available elsewhere on the Internet. Or try to convince Yahoo to bring back their message boards on the News Page.

OK?

Please?

[Sylian]

I don't really see the problem. As long as people are being polite, not insulting each other or anything, why should discussion of politics be forbidden? And, as I said, this isn't even politics, this is whether a news station is corrupted or not. I, as a non-american and thus a person who are fairly objective, say that indeed, Fox News is biased. Perhaps other broadcasting channels are too, I tend to focus more on my country's politics. Anyway, what's the problem as long as we're civil? Nothing force you to read this thread, ignoring it shouldn't be hard at all.

[Vincentrose91]

Steve Wilson and Jane Akre were not even involved with politics, and that is all that this is really about. People want to spread lies and rumors about FOX news being unreliable, because they disagree with some of the T.V. personality's. I Don't like Bill 'o Reilly, but that doesn't mean i am going to slander the whole news network.

Taliesan,
a -3 modifier is a 4-5 intelligence score.

Sylian, Cite your sources.

[FujinAkari]

Steve Wilson and Jane Akre were not even involved with politics, and that is all that this is really about.

Ummmm... what?

The discussion is whether the FOX network is a biased newsource, and evidence that they are requiring their reporters to include false information (i.e. lies) within their reports is the very -definition- of bias.

This isn't even selective coverage, this is outright and deliberate misinformation. Too say "Well that isn't political, so they can lie about that!" is a rather narrow and short-sighted viewpoint.

[Oakianus]

Vincentrose, this is why we can't have nice things. The whole "ur just jelis" argument is a bad start. :( And when a network puts pressure on their people to lie and then hires lawyers to go to court and help set a precident that the media can lie to us as much as they want, then it's usually a sign that said network is okay with dishonesty.

Maybe that's a stretch, logically, but that's just the way that I see it. I mean, I'm just sayin.

That aside, there really are better times and places for this sort of thing. I can just imagine Rich reading this thread with one little tear trickling out of his eye like that Native American dude in that old commercial. :(

[Qov]

I don't really see the problem. As long as people are being polite, not insulting each other or anything, why should discussion of politics be forbidden?

Because it is. Read all those stickied policies at the top. The policy-setters can forbid discussions of weasels, or use of the letter Q if they want to. I'd be out of luck if it was the latter, but it's their board, so we have to comply or go elsewhere.

I wonder if OotS-style Fox News has a lot of updates on the location of ptarmigan, leg hold traps and drinking holes. Perhaps things like the evil takeover of a major city are relegated to the "funny stories" slot between the curling scores and the arts report.

Edit: whoa! take one little telephone call while making a post and you can't even see the post you were responding to anymore.

[Kish]

That aside, there really are better times and places for this sort of thing. I can just imagine Rich reading this thread with one little tear trickling out of his eye like that Native American dude in that old commercial. :(
Might I suggest that it would probably be more accurate to picture Rich reading this thread with a massive two-handed Modhammer raised over his head?

[Demented]

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=74130

I know not the Apokalips they describe.
But the rest is pretty funny.
Even if it could use more citations.

[Legendary]

Also, Fox News have reported that the situation in Iraq is better now. That's not true at all. If it was, then why are people fleeing the country?

Um... Better isn't necessarily the same as not having people flee the country, unfortunately. It would be a lie if they said people weren't fleeing the country, or if the situation was wonderful. But having people flee the country doesn't mean they're at the bottom of the barrel, there's still worse to get to. Personally, I don't like FOX or other news channels because they're either conservative and won't let liberals speak, or they're liberal and won't let conservatives speak, and then act like children when you point this out.


Still, I think this is EXACTLY why there is no politics here...

[puppyavenger]

On the issue of animal inteligence, my dog definatly has a good memory, I put three biscuts in pocket and took him on a walk, gave him one on the walk and one at the end. Then I had a nap, I woke up because he was trying to push the biscut out of my pocket with his nose. and he's quite good at manipulating my mom.

[The_Blue_Sorceress]

Thanks for telling me. That is unusual (admittedly, I heard about 1 dog not showing any interest in presents under a Christmas tree until Christmas day, so that doesn't surprise me that much).


Yeah, but how much attention did the humans pay the presents before Christmas showed up?

Animals read cues off the humans and other anumals around them. They don't in any way have the cognitive capacity of humans. The smartest animals in the world have the intellect of two or three year-old-humans. They aren't, for as a group, what I would call sentient. Evidence to the contrary can almost entirely be explained by the human tendancy toward anthropomorphize things and creatures around them.

The reason why Alex the parrot was such a big deal was that he was unique. The experiments done with him have not been replicated thus far. The only animals that I can accept are any smarter than DnD Int 2 are gorillas, chimpanzees and the like, and they don't do much better than Int 3 or 4.

Human beings are just better. Saying an animal could have an Int of 10 is saying that they have the same cognitive capacity as your average human. I've had pets all my life, and don't get me wrong, I love them to bits, but none were ever even remotely comparable in terms of intellect to the average person.

[Paragon Badger]

Steve Wilson and Jane Akre were not even involved with politics, and that is all that this is really about. People want to spread lies and rumors about FOX news being unreliable, because they disagree with some of the T.V. personality's. I Don't like Bill 'o Reilly, but that doesn't mean i am going to slander the whole news network.

Taliesan,
a -3 modifier is a 4-5 intelligence score.

Sylian, Cite your sources.

A tiny note; you are pretty much killing any validity your whole arguement has with the blatant insults.

At the very least, be subtle about it.

And sources? Le sigh... If one must;

John Moody, FOX News Senior Vice President, on George W. Bush:

"His political courage and tactical cunning ar[e] [wo]rth noting in our reporting through the day" (http://mediamatters.org/items/200407140002)

As for the no politics rule on the forum... Well, Rich was kind of asking for this kind of debate by using a political reference. :smallwink:

Thought that doesn't mean we're not accountable for our own actions, nor are we allowed to go about such discussions without any respect for differing opinions.

[Koga]

The Koga's going to make his own news station.

And it'll have blackjack and hookers.

Infact forget the news station!

[Nerd-o-rama]

As for the no politics rule on the forum... Well, Rich was kind of asking for this kind of debate by using a political reference. :smallwink:Not really. He was making a clever joke and somewhat lame pun based on twisting other peoples' political preconceptions, and made absolutely no statement about Fox News other than commenting on how it is perceived.

As usual, Rich has underestimated how ridiculously out of proportion his forum population can blow something.

Perhaps we should change the subject to, say, Fox's network programmers, rather than their newscasting? Everyone can agree that Fox's programmers and scheduling execs are freaking morons, regardless of political orientation. Remember Firefly! Remember Futurama!

[Demented]

On the issue of animal inteligence, my dog definatly has a good memory, I put three biscuts in pocket and took him on a walk, gave him one on the walk and one at the end. Then I had a nap, I woke up because he was trying to push the biscut out of my pocket with his nose. and he's quite good at manipulating my mom.

Chances are he smelled it in your pocket and got the munchies. :smalltongue:

[Gorbash Kazdar]

Comrade Gorby: This thread is being locked for two reasons.

First, it has become off topic for this forum. Discussing the relative merits of various news sources, even without any politics involved, does not belong in the OotS section (and would barely fit even on Friendly Banter).

Second, while talking about Fox News may not be political itself, this thread has strayed into real world political discussion anyways.

Thusly, *click*