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View Full Version : What Sourcebooks to buy after graduating from SRD only?



jcsw
2008-03-15, 12:25 AM
Okay so our group has been playing SRD-only games for a while, since we all decided to start learning at the same time.

So after so many SRD only games, we want to try integrating more sourcebooks into the games.

So what books would you reccomend in this case?

Nebo_
2008-03-15, 12:32 AM
Complete Warrior, Complete Adventurer, Complete Arcane and Complete Divine.

That's all you'll really need for a while.

sonofzeal
2008-03-15, 12:32 AM
PHB2 has got to be #1. It's got some of the most-needed extra base classes (including an actual tank and an actual gish), great feats, awesome spells, retraining rules, and a whole pile of variant options for everyone.

I'd also highly recommend Tome of Battle - it makes the game far more balanced between casters and non-casters at higher levels. Pure ToB classes tend to be a bit overpowered at low levels, but at lvl10+ you'll need them to stay competitive, and they're way more fun to play than the standard fighters or barbarians.

Nebo_
2008-03-15, 12:35 AM
PHB2 has got to be #1. It's got some of the most-needed extra base classes (including an actual tank and an actual gish), great feats, awesome spells, retraining rules, and a whole pile of variant options for everyone.


Oh, and that.


I'd also highly recommend Tome of Battle - it makes the game far more balanced between casters and non-casters at higher levels. Pure ToB classes tend to be a bit overpowered at low levels, but at lvl10+ you'll need them to stay competitive, and they're way more fun to play than the standard fighters or barbarians.

Unless you're really noticing a problem, I'd stay away from ToB for a while. I love the book, but I wouldn't recommend it straight after SRD only, unless the casters are dominating too much. This doesn't always happen if the casters aren't being played optimally.

SadisticFishing
2008-03-15, 12:42 AM
Depending on what you need: PHB2 is amazing, more base classes, tons more feats, good character building advice.

Tome of Battle is great if melee guys are far behind and people want to play them anyways.

Spell Compendium is great if melee guys are far behind and everyone wants a caster! Teehee. Fun book.

Expanded Psionics Handbook is very cool, and rather good, but only if you want a new system.

My vote is for PHB2.

sonofzeal
2008-03-15, 12:45 AM
Nebo's right, it really does depend on what's going on in your games. PHB2 is useful for everyone and is probably one of the single most useful books ever released, so I'd put it at the top of the list. The first four Complete books are also really solid within their respective categories, and if your party is diverse then there's little fighting over books. ToB really does make melee (my favorite roll) much more fun to play though, and drastically narrows the power gap between high level spellcasters and their otherwise gimped sword-and-board buddies. If that's a problem in your game, I'd recommend it over the Complete series; if it isn't, go with Complete first, then Tome of Battle and Tome of Magic. PHB2 should be your top priority either way though.

Behold_the_Void
2008-03-15, 12:47 AM
Honestly, this late in the game I'd say if you find 4e interesting, just wait until it comes out.

Deepblue706
2008-03-15, 12:55 AM
Depends on what you're looking for.

If you want some really neat, but not-so-powerful abilities to add to any character with martial ability, Complete Warrior is great. The Mindspy, the Master Thrower, the Exotic Weapon Master, Eye of Gruumsh, the Kensai, the Occult Slayer, the Frenzied Berserker, the Hexblade...all really neat concepts. Unfortunately, they just don't get a lot of real power. If you're very casual gamers who just want cool class abilities, Complete Warrior is a fine choice.

However, as noted, things like Tome of Battle, although a bit advanced, does much more in the balancing department - so if you do indeed notice any spellcasters overshadowing the party, this book can give your warriors a boost.

I must say that PHB2 is probably the best choice overall, though, because it introduces some more easy-to-learn classes with interesting abilities as well as more feats that can help add to the fun for just about everyone involved in your campaigns. The Complete series has a book devoted to each type of class, rather than a bunch for just about everyone. If you want to give everyone something new to look at without paying much money, save those for a little later and get the PHB2.

CASTLEMIKE
2008-03-15, 01:07 AM
Okay so our group has been playing SRD-only games for a while, since we all decided to start learning at the same time.

So after so many SRD only games, we want to try integrating more sourcebooks into the games.

So what books would you reccomend in this case?

It really depends on what types of PCs each player normally favors. Sorcerers and Wizards will like Complete Arcane and Complete Mage.

Consider sharing the books (Some good buys on line at Amazon)

PHBII pretty good for a lot of options for almost every class.

jcsw
2008-03-15, 01:29 AM
Oh, and our group fully embraces psionics, if that helps.

MammonAzrael
2008-03-15, 01:35 AM
Honestly, this late in the game I'd say if you find 4e interesting, just wait until it comes out.

Quoted for truth.

But if you aren't interested in 4th, then I second the PHBII, Complete, and ToB suggestions.

jcsw
2008-03-15, 01:37 AM
btw, our group ALREADY uses psionics, at least the stuff on d20srd.org

CASTLEMIKE
2008-03-15, 01:41 AM
Oh, and our group fully embraces psionics, if that helps.

I would recommend Complete Psionic for your group since most of the SRD psionics is the nuts and bolts of the Expanded Psionics Handbook so I wouldn't recommend it except for a hardcopy in hand.

Yeygresh
2008-03-15, 01:44 AM
Oh, and our group fully embraces psionics, if that helps.

If you want them, I'd get Expanded Psionics Handbook, and Complete Psion; I enjoy them both.

Complete Mage, Arcane, and Divine are great, and PHB2 is a must. I'd buy Tome of Battle over Complete warrior. Tome of Magic has the Binder class, which is awesome; thats about all the good there is in ToM.

I highly recommend the Iron Kingdoms (http://www.privateerpress.com/ironkingdoms/default.php?x=books) line of books for a great setting, but Frostburn is good as well if you want to stay with the default setting(Greyhawk).

Nebo_
2008-03-15, 01:47 AM
I highly recommend the Iron Kingdoms line of books for a great setting

+1. IK is my favourite campaign setting. Packed full of steampunk win.

sonofzeal
2008-03-15, 01:49 AM
btw, our group ALREADY uses psionics, at least the stuff on d20srd.org
SRD psi stuff is good. Complete Psi.... well, I really like Psi, but even I wouldn't particularly recommend it. Not that it's "bad" so much as "meh". The stuff it adds didn't really need to be added, and most of it's rather mediocre. There's some new powers and a bunch of feats and a few new classes, but I'd put it substantially down the priority list unless psi is a major aspect of your game world.

As to 4e... I dunno, I think 3.5 is big enough that there will always be a good community for it. The sheer volume of 3rd Ed stuff dwarfs 2nd and 1st combined, so I see no reason why not to stick with it in the foreseeable future.

CASTLEMIKE
2008-03-15, 02:30 AM
Complete Psionic has things like Damp Power, Psychic Containment which is great in magic/psi transparency games.

AI for a level dip for a blaster.

Ecto Adepts for someone with Astral Construct.

Really nice for Erudite with the Hidden Talent Astral Construct for an always available useful backup power.

Go Beguiler at first level if the Precocious Apprentice trick from Complete Arcane works with an Erudite using the Spells to Power variant (Wizard's Web Article) going Cerebremancer.

Beguiler -1 (PHBII) (Hidden Talent Astral Construct EPH), Erudite -4, Cerebremancer -10, Full Psi PRC - 5 to taste ends up with a L19 Psionics as an Erudite with Beguiler - 11 spellcasting well over a 100 spells with lots of skill points, No ASF in light armor. 17 PP Miracles. 1 PP Fast Healing 1.

Titanium Dragon
2008-03-15, 03:37 AM
Personally, I'd recommend waiting until 4th edition :P

But if you want to leap into 3.5, I'd recommend the following books, in order:

1) Tome of Battle. This helps balance out melee classes versus casters a great deal, and adds a lot of fun and depth to combat for the melee classes, giving them choices beyond "I charge" and "I full attack".
2) The Complete Adventuerer. This, likewise, has a lot of interesting stuff in it and adds a lot of richness to the game.
3) The Player's Handbook 2. This is a good sourcebook and has interesting and fun classes and abilities in it.

KIDS
2008-03-15, 03:44 AM
Either:

a) PHB 2
or
b) Tome of Battle

Both very amazing books, as someone said if you don't notice a "problem" of balance, you should go with PHB2 first as it's generally useful of everything and has tons of new ideas.

Eldariel
2008-03-15, 05:21 AM
A) Tome of Battle. It's the best thing ever to happen to D&D.

B) Anything else. PHB II is great as everyone has said, Magic of Incarnum is an awesome system if a bit low on power, Dungeonscape is probably the best book I've ever personally purchased (all the ACFs, Factotum, all the Dungeon-construction advice, etc.) - I wasn't the one to buy ToB for us - and probably the best book that doesn't introduce a new system I've read, Magic Item Compendium has lots of goodies and Spell Compendium makes casters even more über. Most Completes I found quite boring although Complete Scoundrel (I really loved that book, skill tricks are such an awesome addition to the game and it has few interesting classes too), Complete Mage and Complete Champion pick up the slack quite well. I also loved the Races-books (all of them), especially Races of the Wild and Races of Stone (Races of the Dragon and Races of Destiny I'd still buy before other Completes though) - they add depth to the characters and make all the fantasy races so much easier to understand and thus roleplay.

As has been said, Complete Warrior has great concepts, but the powerlevel is relatively low with only Frenzied Berserker, Spellsword and Dervish being really worth playing out of the PrCs and Frenzied Berserk and Dervish are both horribly linear (and Hulking Hurler is broken). The jousting rules and such as quite intriguing though, as well as the part on Fantasy Warfare (for campaigns). Complete Divine and Complete Arcane both have few interesting ideas, but don't give too much to the game. Complete Adventurer has the Scout-class, but beyond that it's lacking.

Frostburn and Stormwrack are great if those environments interest you; Stormwrack especially expands a part of the game that's criminally underpresented normally. Lords of Madness and Draconomicon are good books for running monsters, but don't give too much to players. Ghostwalk isn't 3.5, but I still absolutely love it.

GammaPaladin
2008-03-15, 07:27 AM
SRD psi stuff is good. Complete Psi.... well, I really like Psi, but even I wouldn't particularly recommend it. Not that it's "bad" so much as "meh". The stuff it adds didn't really need to be added, and most of it's rather mediocre. There's some new powers and a bunch of feats and a few new classes, but I'd put it substantially down the priority list unless psi is a major aspect of your game world.

As to 4e... I dunno, I think 3.5 is big enough that there will always be a good community for it. The sheer volume of 3rd Ed stuff dwarfs 2nd and 1st combined, so I see no reason why not to stick with it in the foreseeable future.
Don't forget Psionic Revivify. Makes Egoists feel a bit more useful.

Paul H
2008-03-15, 08:10 AM
Hi

My choices would be:

Complete Mage - Awesome spells. (Check out 'Heart of... series). Good feats.
Spell Compendium - Lots of excellent life-saving spells. (Vigor series), plus new domains
Magic Item Compendium - Loads new magical goodies, Relics, etc. Items listed by appropriate level, by cost, etc.
Complete Arcane - That's where Warlock & Warmage base classes are.
PHBII - Good base classes (my fav. is Beguiler). Good feats. Ideas how to improve char concepts.

Even more specialised are:

Complete Warrior - Good feats & PrC's, including Kensai
Complete Divine - Good feats & PrC's, inc. Radiant Servant Pelor, Rainbow Servant.

I normally play spellcasters, so I'm a bit biased, though I'm currently playing a Samurai/Kensai.

For broken PrC try out Warmage 6/Rainbow Servant10. Warmage with domain powers/spells & complete cleric spell list added to his own! Plus full caster levels!

Your choices depend on what type of characters you play.

Cheers
Paul H

Thoughtbot360
2008-03-15, 09:18 AM
Magic Item Compendium. (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=products/dndacc/107627200) For Healing Belts if nothing else. Healing Belts costs 500 gp, but you will never need to spend all your gold on healing potions once you have it. Also, magic items really are the backbone of the game (even though that fact annoys me-the PHB wows you will all the class powers but the real power behind a PC is hidden waaay in the back of the DMG :smallannoyed: ), and more good stuff is more good stuff.

Actually, if you would like a game that doesn't rely on magic items so much, but you don't want to learn a new system from scratch, then might I also suggest:

Medieval Players Guide! (http://www.d20zines.com/v7/node/1045)

I like its approach to magic (the only remaining spell casters from core are the Cleric and the Paladin, but there are also loads of new ways to use magic-that are open to ANYBODY to learn to use-and some new classes like the "natural magician" that specialize in using those new magic types to replace all the classes that got cut.) but you could drop the magic stuff for a more historically accurate game. Its real plus is that it has quite a lot of world info and historical "what ifs" and other things that make it an interesting setting. You could even cut out the magic (But you'd be left with pretty much only Fighters and Rogues and one or two classes from the book..) The biggest problem is the lack of a Medieval Bestiary because while the monsters of this world are eluded to, they are not described in detail. Monsters that use Damage reduction and various other defensive special qualities might need a nerf, for instance.

But its just an interesting read with a $22 price tag.



Now, randomicitiy!

Let's face it, whenever someone says "expect" "Spanish" or "Inquisition" on the internet, everyone expects the Spanish Inquisition.

And that's exactly why no one will see the French inquisition coming.

Paul H
2008-03-15, 09:37 AM
Hi

Healing belts cost 750gp to buy, 500gp to make, but yea, almost a compulsory buy! :smallsmile:

Cheers
Paul H

Eldariel
2008-03-15, 09:47 AM
For broken PrC try out Warmage 6/Rainbow Servant10. Warmage with domain powers/spells & complete cleric spell list added to his own! Plus full caster levels!

Fair suggestions, but this caught my eye. When I think Broken, I think Planar Shepherd, Incantatrix or Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil; Rainbow Servant fixes up the lacking spell list of the Warmage, but having access to a decent spell-list doesn't really make them broken. I mean, having a solid spell list is all good, but being able to apply free metamagic, taking free 10-turn time stops or being immortal strikes me as vastly more broken in the terms of sheer brokenness, especially when fundamentally those characters already have an access to at least as many powerful spells as a Cleric.

Of course, everyone is entirely entitled to their opinion, I just feel like the word 'broken' as in 'broken good' isn't really the right word to describe Rainbow Servant; feels more like 'solid'.

Tengu
2008-03-15, 09:52 AM
Exalted 2nd edition. :smalltongue:

Seriously though, the best bets would probably be PHB2 and the four main completes: Warrior, Adventurer, Arcane and Divine. And Tome of Battle, unless you hate melee types.

Artemician
2008-03-15, 09:53 AM
Fair suggestions, but this caught my eye. When I think Broken, I think Planar Shepherd, Incantatrix or Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil; Rainbow Servant fixes up the lacking spell list of the Warmage, but having access to a decent spell-list doesn't really make them broken. I mean, having a solid spell list is all good, but being able to apply free metamagic, taking free 10-turn time stops or being immortal strikes me as vastly more broken in the terms of sheer brokenness, especially when fundamentally those characters already have an access to at least as many powerful spells as a Cleric.

Of course, everyone is entirely entitled to their opinion, I just feel like the word 'broken' as in 'broken good' isn't really the right word to describe Rainbow Servant; feels more like 'solid'.

A Warmage/Rainbow Servant may not be as broken as a Planar Shepherd or any of the other really disgustingly cheesed up stuff, but casting from the Cleric Spell list, but with the warmage's huge number of spells/day, as well as its free list of sudden metamagics, is defintely strong enough to merit the title "Broken".

After all, it's CoDZilla +, and CoDZilla is already considered broken.

Eldariel
2008-03-15, 10:04 AM
A Warmage/Rainbow Servant may not be as broken as a Planar Shepherd or any of the other really disgustingly cheesed up stuff, but casting from the Cleric Spell list, but with the warmage's huge number of spells/day, as well as its free list of sudden metamagics, is defintely strong enough to merit the title "Broken".

After all, it's CoDZilla +, and CoDZilla is already considered broken.

He loses 4 caster levels in the progress, never getting level 9 spells. He also has no choice in domains (so no Spell-domain to cast the truly powerful Wizard-spells) and he never gets Turn Undead so without another Prestige Class-dip, he doesn't qualify for Divine Feats (he might on level 17...which means 17 levels without decent feats). Also, he only qualifies for Cleric-spells on level 10, meaning he'll have to make do for 15 levels as a Warmage. That's quite far from broken as far as I'm concerned.

Thoughtbot360
2008-03-15, 05:02 PM
A Warmage/Rainbow Servant....


Rainbow Servant?

(Opens thought bubble) (http://www.headinjurytheater.com/images/d&d%20beasts%20%20senmurv%20gay%20pride.jpg)