Siangham...?

[Stormthorn]

The Siangham is essentialy a pointed stick. See the link below.

http://www.sgangherati.it/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=749&stc=1&d=1151745096

Since mans first weapons where pointed sticks and heavy rocks would someone explain why this is an exotic weapon. ???

[SadisticFishing]

Because it's a short pointy stick! Hard to use effectively.

[de-trick]

its Oriental meaning not commonly used in a normal setting

[tyckspoon]

its Oriental meaning not commonly used in a normal setting

This. Weapons get classed as exotic for three reasons that I know of: It's rare and unusual in-world, it's bizarre and really does take special training to use, or its game stats are better than martial weapons. The weapons that go under the first two categories tend to suck. Most of the monk special weapons are, theoretically, in the first case.. although I don't know why Monk Special Weapons should be considered rare if monks themselves are common enough to be a core base class.

[Tetsubo 57]

This. Weapons get classed as exotic for three reasons that I know of: It's rare and unusual in-world, it's bizarre and really does take special training to use, or its game stats are better than martial weapons. The weapons that go under the first two categories tend to suck. Most of the monk special weapons are, theoretically, in the first case.. although I don't know why Monk Special Weapons should be considered rare if monks themselves are common enough to be a core base class.

For the same reason I have always been confused by kamas. Why are a kama and a sickle treated differently? They fill the exact same role in their respective country's, one handed tools for cutting plants. Yet one is martial ad the other is exotic.

If a weapon isn't better than a martial one, it shouldn't be considered exotic. Exotic should have a mechanical advantage.

[RTGoodman]

If a weapon isn't better than a martial one, it shouldn't be considered exotic. Exotic should have a mechanical advantage.

Well, you can use a kama, siangham, and other monk special weapons in a Flurry of Blows, which makes it better (supposedly) than a sickle or dagger or whatever.

"But wait," you say, "why can't you just use a sickle in a Flurry of Blows and call it a kama?"

Well, that's a good question - I have no idea. :smalltongue:

[Worira]

But that's not a mechanical reason to make it exotic, since monks get them for free.

[Tetsubo 57]

Well, you can use a kama, siangham, and other monk special weapons in a Flurry of Blows, which makes it better (supposedly) than a sickle or dagger or whatever.

"But wait," you say, "why can't you just use a sickle in a Flurry of Blows and call it a kama?"

Well, that's a good question - I have no idea. :smalltongue:

Ignore the Monk. A sickle and a kama are the same size, weight and general shape. If you handed them both to a farmer from either Europe or Asia they would be able to use them to harvest plants. They are the *same* tool. Why are they treated as different *weapons*?

An idea I have been mulling over for awhile now about Monks and their Flurry weapons. State that a Monk can use one Bludgeoning, one Piercing and one Slashing weapon with their Flurry. Each weapon has the same stats and allows the Monk to Disarm or Trip with it. This is a slight change mechanically from how it is handled now. The big difference is that the player provides the fluff about what the weapons look like.

Each school of Monks might have a different selection of weapons. Some might use escrima sticks or war fans or large knives or pointed sticks, etc. But mechanically they would behave the same.

[Fhaolan]

Ignore the Monk. A sickle and a kama are the same size, weight and general shape. If you handed them both to a farmer from either Europe or Asia they would be able to use them to harvest plants. They are the *same* tool. Why are they treated as different *weapons*?

Absolutely correct. There are european sickles that are identical in shape and configuration to kamas. Especially in southern europe. The shape normally identified as a 'sickle' was more common in northern and eastern europe. It appears that the scythe evolved from the kama-like sickles.

And as far as I've been able to tell from sianghams that I've handled, it is functionally identical to the weapon commonly labled a 'dart' in ancient europe. A very short spear not that much longer than an arrow. Another similar form found in modern weapon catalogs is called an Assegai, however real Berber assegai's are nothing more than normal spears. For some bizarre reason the modern manufacturers shorten the shaft down to two feet or so, to saingham/dart length.

[Tam_OConnor]

Wait, I thought the Zulu stabbing spear was called an assegai. Similar terms, or am I just all a-muddled?
Tetsubo, I like the basic idea of the variable monk weapon, but it seems a little too balanced. Never thought I'd say that... Too uniform, maybe. I'm just thinking of escrima and how it's all slashing or bludgeoning, not so much in the way of piercing (unless there's a whole set of piercing katas that I've never seen; certainly probable). So, club, shortsword (slashing) and...dunno. Hmmm, circular styles favoring slashing and blunt and linear favoring piercing?
I'd go for a list of weapons, and just let them pick three. But then again, I'm not exactly knowledgeable when it comes to Eastern martial arts, so I could just be mad.

[Fhaolan]

Wait, I thought the Zulu stabbing spear was called an assegai. Similar terms, or am I just all a-muddled?

:smallbiggrin: Isn't weapon terminology fun? I just looked it all up, and I do need to correct myself slightly.

The assegai is Berber (North Africa), and is indeed a short spear, but nowhere near as short as shown in the catalogs. The assegai spread throughout africa and into spain, as the Berbers were prolific traders. The Zulus in South Africa have a weapon with an assegai blade, but they mount it on an even shorter shaft and call it an 'ixwa'. This is what is presented in the weapon catalogs. So the weapon does in fact exist, just with a different name. This is fairly normal for those catalogs, they have a tendency to attach the wrong name to weapons on a regular basis. :smallsmile:

In effect the ixwa somewhere half-way between a shortsword and a siangham.

[Tetsubo 57]

If you ask a panel of twelve weapon experts to list names for spears, you are likely to get thirteen answers.

:)

[Starbuck_II]

This. Weapons get classed as exotic for three reasons that I know of: It's rare and unusual in-world, it's bizarre and really does take special training to use, or its game stats are better than martial weapons. The weapons that go under the first two categories tend to suck. Most of the monk special weapons are, theoretically, in the first case.. although I don't know why Monk Special Weapons should be considered rare if monks themselves are common enough to be a core base class.

This is why 3.5 had issues.

Exotic became: its "exotic" like not normal, but than also exotic it takes more training.

The only good exotic weapons also had better stats.
a. Spiked Chain, b. Kusagari (in DMG), c. Bastardsword/Waraxe, d. Whip dagger, e. Flind bar (that nunchaku weapon in MM3 I think), and some other racial ones.

They should have just included all the exotic non-good weapons like kama, nunchaku, siangham in simple/martial (whatever it fits).

Leave exotic to weapons that are kinda worth it.