the trouble with half-ogres

[Rad]

so... I have a player who is thinking about rolling an half ogre. He is going for a Mage slayer/whirlwind attack/spiked chain thing as far as I know.
He asked me two things: whether I allow LA buyoff and whether I'd allow some magic itel of Divine Power 1/day or something.
I am deeply unsure about adjudicating both things. The party si as follows:
level 6

Single-class fighter with the fighter-only feats
Duskblade
Rogue/swashbuckler daring outlaw.
Him
so... not very optimized, but fun to play. The duskblade is held back because he's the only one with per day abilities and we do have more encounters in the same day.

I'm currently toying with the idea of letting him buy off only one level since stat bonuses and size are good all the time. Is giant type good or bad? It sure is preventing him from getting an enlarge person on himself.

What should I think of the item? I never played far enough to see reach actually usable so I have no idea how strong that can get.

Thank you for the advice

[Cuddly]

Tell him to look at psionic warrior- two size expansions at level 7. Less if he somehow finds the feats for overchannel.

Just kidding.

It probably wouldn't be a good idea to let him munchkin out, seeing as how no one else is doing it.

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

I find that LA buy-off generally is a good idea.

Divine Power as a 1/day command word activated magic item on a ring or a belt seems like a reasonable item.

Price would be
(7 x 4 x 1800)/5 = 10080 GP

for the minimum CL of 7, thus the effect would last 7 rounds.

[Tsotha-lanti]

Don't allow LA buyoff in a campaign that isn't all LA characters. It'll be deeply unbalanced otherwise, because the characters who started out with LA will catch up to the others in a few levels (since lower-ECL characters earn more XP, by the book), and will have a host of benefits. People who chose LA 0 races will feel justly shafted.

The divine power item seems reasonable.

[Rad]

I find that LA buy-off generally is a good idea.

Divine Power as a 1/day command word activated magic item on a ring or a belt seems like a reasonable item.

Price would be
(7 x 4 x 1800)/5 = 10080 GP

for the minimum CL of 7, thus the effect would last 7 rounds.

what troubles me is that once you reach high levels LA+2 is basically free... I don't think that's fair.

[Serenity]

The general consensus is that LA is almost never worth it unless buyoff is allowed.

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

what troubles me is that once you reach high levels LA+2 is basically free... I don't think that's fair.

Essentially that just means that when you have paid the costs you do not have to pay any further costs.

LA +2 is bought of at levels 6 and 9. That is quite a while to be behind the other PCs in terms of class abilities, hp etc. and you also have to pay the xp-cost which means that it takes a little longer to catch up.

If we are talking races with racial HD things generally becomes quite unbalanced without LA buy-off.

[Rad]

true, but racial HD stay in place forever. At 15th level you'll pratically have had something for nothing.

I'd still like to get opinions on being of giant type being any better or worse than humanoid.

[Nebo_]

true, but racial HD stay in place forever. At 15th level you'll pratically have had something for nothing.


Half-Ogres don't have racial HD.



I'd still like to get opinions on being of giant type being any better or worse than humanoid.

Giant HD are meh. They're proficient with all martial weapons, but what melee character isn't? Apart from that, all they get is immunity to the X person spells; a blessing and a curse.

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

true, but racial HD stay in place forever. At 15th level you'll pratically have had something for nothing.

It is still not for nothing. When you have paid the mortgage on your house after 20-30 odd years you would not say that you got the house for nothing even though you now own it, would you? :smallamused:


I'd still like to get opinions on being of giant type being any better or worse than humanoid.

The benefits include being immune to harmful spells that only target humanoids.

The downside is that you are also immune to beneficial spells that only target humanoids, such as enlarge person and there are a few races that get a bonus on attacks against you.

I think you are generally losing more than you get though.

[playswithfire]

He'll never completely catch up, the amount by which he's behind will just decrease.

He'll be 2 class levels behind until ECL 8, between one and one and two class levels behind until the party hits 17 class levels and he'll hit 16 class levels (since he'll be 16000 xp behind by then)

So basically 2 LA just fades to 1 LA over the course of 17 levels.

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

He'll never completely catch up, the amount by which he's behind will just decrease.

He might very well catch up both in level and absolute xp, since being a lower ECL awards you more xp than the other party members for overcoming the same challenge. (At least after level 3 where this becomes relevant)

[playswithfire]

Ah, my mistake; I assumed that he'd continue to gain exp as if he were the same level as the party, in which case it'd progress the way I described. Appreciate the information

[Chronos]

Personally, I'm more worried about the item of Divine Power. It's not that it's overpowered in itself; it's that he shouldn't be asking for it in the first place. If he were playing a fighter (the obvious choice for a chain lockdown character), Divine Power would be useless to him. The fact that he thinks it would be useful tells me that he's up to something, and when I find out that someone's up to something but I don't know what, my answer is always "no", at least until I have more information.

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

Personally, I'm more worried about the item of Divine Power. It's not that it's overpowered in itself; it's that he shouldn't be asking for it in the first place. If he were playing a fighter (the obvious choice for a chain lockdown character), Divine Power would be useless to him. The fact that he thinks it would be useful tells me that he's up to something, and when I find out that someone's up to something but I don't know what, my answer is always "no", at least until I have more information.

Maybe he thinks that the BAB increase will help for his level adjustment? (It won't of course)

The enhancement bonus to STR is nice, but it does not stack with other items or spells that grant an enhancement bonus and such items are probably high on his wish list in the first place.

The 7 (for the CL 7 item) temporary hp are not bad, but hardly game breaking.

Such an item would provide a slight once a day boost, but there are few possibilities of wrecking havoc with it.

Personally I would rather have a Righteous Might item.:smallamused:


Divine Power

Evocation
Level: Clr 4, War 4
Components: V, S, DF
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: 1 round/level

Calling upon the divine power of your patron, you imbue yourself with strength and skill in combat. Your base attack bonus becomes equal to your character level (which may give you additional attacks), you gain a +6 enhancement bonus to Strength, and you gain 1 temporary hit point per caster level.

[Rad]

Personally, I'm more worried about the item of Divine Power. It's not that it's overpowered in itself; it's that he shouldn't be asking for it in the first place. If he were playing a fighter (the obvious choice for a chain lockdown character), Divine Power would be useless to him. The fact that he thinks it would be useful tells me that he's up to something, and when I find out that someone's up to something but I don't know what, my answer is always "no", at least until I have more information.

Or, in the translating process I confused divine power with divine righteous might (I tend to do that) :smallredface:
The point was to gain one more size.

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

Righteous Might, which I assume is the spell you are referring to, would increase the price of the item to 16200 gp at CL 9.

[Chronos]

OK, yeah, it makes sense that he'd want Righteous Might; that's good for any meleer, and especially a reacher, and the bonuses stack with almost everything. I retract my earlier worrying.

[Rad]

yes, that was the point. what I was asking is whether it was a good idea to let him have it and how much it should cost. The spell is one that can usually only be cast on oneself after all.

[Tsotha-lanti]

He might very well catch up both in level and absolute xp, since being a lower ECL awards you more xp than the other party members for overcoming the same challenge. (At least after level 3 where this becomes relevant)

In fact, with some luck (or trickery), you can exceed the others in XP...


Ah, my mistake; I assumed that he'd continue to gain exp as if he were the same level as the party, in which case it'd progress the way I described. Appreciate the information

That's like the opposite of how Level Adjustment buyoff works. The whole idea is to reduce your ECL so you'll gain more XP and catch up with the others.

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

That's like the opposite of how Level Adjustment works. The whole idea is to reduce your ECL so you'll gain more XP and catch up with the others.

It is how LA buy-off works, not LA by itself since LA is included in your ECL. (Just making sure there are no misunderstandings.)

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

yes, that was the point. what I was asking is whether it was a good idea to let him have it and how much it should cost. The spell is one that can usually only be cast on oneself after all.

It is only good for one encounter, two if you double the price etc., so as long as you often have several encounters per day it should not be a problem unless the rest of the party already is falling behind due to lack of optimization on their behalf.

[Tsotha-lanti]

It is how LA buy-off works, not LA by itself since LA is included in your ECL. (Just making sure there are no misunderstandings.)

Duh, yes. I dropped a word. :(

[Chronos]

yes, that was the point. what I was asking is whether it was a good idea to let him have it and how much it should cost. The spell is one that can usually only be cast on oneself after all.Ordinarily, I'm a bit leery of custom magic items, but Righteous Might is a lot less broken on a fighter than on a cleric. If the fighter gets Righteous Might, then the guy who's supposed to be able to kick butt in melee... is actually able to kick butt in melee. That doesn't sound like a problem to me.

Also consider that he'll only get it for one encounter, he'll have to spend an action to use it, and he'll have to be careful about low ceilings.

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

Ordinarily, I'm a bit leery of custom magic items

Everyone should be. :smallamused:


...and he'll have to be careful about low ceilings.

I smell Kobolds in the popcorn!