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Quxelopqr
2008-03-15, 05:28 PM
So I'm making a level 20 character up for a campaign, and I'm thinking of going Sorceror 8/Fighter 2/Swiftblade 10. I'm just wondering if that would be an effective build for a higher level campaign (I know it's not as strong as a full caster but we have a wizard, cleric and druid already).

I haven't statted it out or bought anything yet, but I'm thinking of going TWF and giving him great cleave, so that when we fight the evil army (which is basically what the campaign is about, a war against two different armies) I can stop time for a round and dominate the weaker parts of the army and let the casters worry about the big threats with their instant-win spells.

Some plusses of the build:
+16 BAB (4 attacks) + 2 weapons (3 extra attacks) + speed weapons (2 more attacks) + haste spell for a total of 10 attacks per round.
effective 14th level sorceror (6th level spells).
+8/+9/+13 base saves.
50% miss chance for attacks and spells targeted at me while I'm hasted, which I can do as a free action.
The Rule of Cool is on my side, what with the stopping time for a round and once time comes back there's a bunch of dead guys on front of me and all I did was draw my swords.

I'll be getting stats and such up later on.

KillianHawkeye
2008-03-15, 05:39 PM
I'm not familiar with the Swiftblade, but it seems pretty cool. Although I'm pretty sure haste does not stack with weapons of speed to give you extra attacks.

Nebo_
2008-03-15, 05:48 PM
+16 BAB (4 attacks) + 2 weapons (3 extra attacks) + speed weapons (2 more attacks) + haste spell for a total of 10 attacks per round.

Speed weapons don't stack with each other or haste. Great Cleave is a trap and if you don't have extra damage, which you don't, so is TWF.


I can stop time for a round and dominate the weaker parts of the army and let the casters worry about the big threats with their instant-win spells.

You can't damage people in timestop.

Those fighter levels aren't giving you much at all, try this:

Sorcerer 6/Swiftblade 10/Abjurant Champion 4

8th level spells, +17 BAB

Nermy
2008-03-15, 05:54 PM
Speed weapons don't stack with each other or haste. Great Cleave is a trap and if you don't have extra damage, which you don't, so is TWF.
Those fighter levels aren't giving you much at all, try this:

Sorcerer 6/Swiftblade 10/Abjurant Champion 4

8th level spells, +17 BAB

Note that this build would need a race with martial weapon proficiency or a feat blown on it, but that shouldn't be a problem (for extra fun use kobold with the Races of Dragon web enhancement extra features as a race to be able to do greater draconic rite of passage to get 9th level spells)

whoops misread swiftblade

Nebo_
2008-03-15, 06:26 PM
Note that this build would need a race with martial weapon proficiency or a feat blown on it, but that shouldn't be a problem

Or playing a Battle Sorcerer, if you don't mind being kicked in the crotch as far as casting goes. Your best bet is to play an elf or Aasimar with the LA bought off. Failing that, a feat spent on a martial weapon isn't too bad considering what you get in return.

Quxelopqr
2008-03-15, 06:58 PM
Well if I can't damage people in a time stop then I won't bother with the great cleavage so that frees up 3 feats. Maybe instead of fighter I should go rogue or scout or swashbuckler, fighter was pretty much giving me the extra feats so I could do the cleaving and rogues get much more (if I go a few levels less in sorceror I could get some nice sneak attack to go with the telling blow feat. The other person in the group is a ranger using the variant from PH2 that lets him flank by attacking so I can get all the sneak attacks I could want). Is battle sorceror in the srd? I'm not familiar with it.

"Speed weapons don't stack with each other or haste"

The haste part I was unaware of, but if I have two different weapons with the speed ability they don't both get an extra attack?

Zincorium
2008-03-15, 07:24 PM
Well if I can't damage people in a time stop then I won't bother with the great cleavage so that frees up 3 feats. Maybe instead of fighter I should go rogue or scout or swashbuckler

If you go swashbuckler for three levels, you'd be kind of silly not to go wizard as well, otherwise you're spreading your abilities a bit thin. Hexblade or paladin is decent for sorcerers as a replacement for fighter, but seriously, you can find better feats than cleave. Keep power attack though, it's one of the few really good feats in core.


Is battle sorceror in the srd? I'm not familiar with it.

Battle sorcerer in the SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#sorcererVariantBattleS orcerer). It loses quite a bit, but it also gains quite a bit. If you're going into swiftblade, your casting is going to get slashed anyway, so it may be worth it.


The haste part I was unaware of, but if I have two different weapons with the speed ability they don't both get an extra attack?


When making a full attack action, the wielder of a speed weapon may make one extra attack with it. The attack uses the wielder’s full base attack bonus, plus any modifiers appropriate to the situation. (This benefit is not cumulative with similar effects, such as a haste spell.)

Emphasis mine. It's been a point of contention on the boards, but that was about whether or not speed is similar to speed (since they're the same, I'd say they're similar). There's no question that it does not stack with haste.

Quxelopqr
2008-03-15, 07:39 PM
Okay, I get that speed and haste don't go together, but 2 different speed weapons don't go together either? I'm intending on using two different weapons, both of which would have the speed enchantment, but I only get an extra attack for one of those weapons?

Thanks for the battle sorceror link, but I think I'm only going 2 levels in swashbuckler, that way I get a few decent abilities (add my int modifier to damage? yes please) and the BAB I was looking for. Any more then 2 in swashbuckler and I wouldn't get a 6th level spell.

Where can I find this Abjurant Champion Nebo_ mentioned?

Zincorium
2008-03-15, 08:00 PM
Okay, I get that speed and haste don't go together, but 2 different speed weapons don't go together either? I'm intending on using two different weapons, both of which would have the speed enchantment, but I only get an extra attack for one of those weapons?

Seriously, you're going to be in haste most of the time, and speed just plain doesn't stack with that. Why pay the gold for two +3 enchantments if neither of them works with the swiftblade perks? If your DM approves the use of two speed weapons, alright, but you've got nothing to defend your position with if it comes down to whether it's in the rules.


Thanks for the battle sorceror link, but I think I'm only going 2 levels in swashbuckler, that way I get a few decent abilities (add my int modifier to damage? yes please) and the BAB I was looking for. Any more then 2 in swashbuckler and I wouldn't get a 6th level spell.

Any less than 3 levels of swashbuckler and you don't get intelligence to damage, 2nd level only gets you +1 to reflex saves. So it's either that, 6th level spells, or...

Be a wizard instead of sorceror and get both. And actually use intelligence for casting as well as adding to your damage. Or just go 5 levels of wizard, 1 level of swashbuckler, take swiftblade, then finish up with either eldritch knight, spellsword, or better yet...


Where can I find this Abjurant Champion Nebo_ mentioned?

Complete Mage (note this is not the same book as complete arcane). It's a really, really good class for the type of character you're looking at. Full BAB, full spellcasting, absolutely astounding special abilities.

Quxelopqr
2008-03-15, 09:36 PM
Oh, I get it now. Don't know why it took me so long to figure out that speed doesn't work while I'm in haste. Sorry for the annoyingness.

And here I'm wrong on the swashbuckler too, I must have got the levels mixed up, I thought you got the reflex thing at level 3 and insightful strike at 2.

Complete mage would be the only book I don't have here :smallannoyed: . Ah well, I'll try to look it up.