View Full Version : "Stop Ghouling around and pick a class!" Or "Pimp my Paralysis"

2008-03-16, 12:34 PM
I'm making a human with the gravetouched ghoul template. The character is 32 point buy, and I have no idea what class would suit it other than rogue (which I constantly seem to play, and really would like any other class).
It needs 6 class levels and I have no idea what to take. So far my idea for the character is based around the paralysation ability at every oportunity, so I've decided to definately have Ability Focus (paralysis) and Improved paralysis, and a hight charisma is a must.
Otherwise I honestly have between little and no idea what to do (Improved toughness looks a good choice), any help would be great.

Kurald Galain
2008-03-16, 12:37 PM
Warlock sounds appropriate, and meshes with high charisma.

2008-03-16, 12:45 PM
I suppose, but warlocks seem better for ranged characters.

2008-03-16, 12:53 PM
Hideous Blow plus Concentration to cast defensively equals melee attacks for base damage +Eldritch Blast (3d6 at 6th level, I think) plus paralysis.

Kurald Galain
2008-03-16, 12:56 PM
I suppose, but warlocks seem better for ranged characters.

No they aren't, melee-locks are a viable build.
Besides, by level six you can get to be invisible at will, that seems very useful for a ghoulish sneak.

2008-03-16, 01:01 PM
Dread necromancer. Massive self-healing, lot of touch spells, general spiffiness.

For bonus points, spell-stitch yourself.

2008-03-16, 01:04 PM
on closer inspection, warlock does seem an excelent choice, thanks

2008-03-16, 01:50 PM
warlock would be my best guess

another way to take it, go perhaps monk. and use the monk side to focus on stunning fist.

so you have ghouls paralysis and stunning fist. just a thought

2008-03-16, 02:35 PM
I don't have the books on me, but I think Warlocks can push their Blasts through melee attacks, either through a class feature or a feat. (Or an invocation to make a Blasty weapon?) Sorry, I don't remember, haven't played a Warlock. They sound like a lot of fun tho.

2008-03-16, 02:53 PM
I don't have the books on me, but I think Warlocks can push their Blasts through melee attacks, either through a class feature or a feat. (Or an invocation to make a Blasty weapon?) Sorry, I don't remember, haven't played a Warlock. They sound like a lot of fun tho.

Hideous blow, and I've heard talk about Eldritch Glaive, but I don't actually know what that does. Look it up?

But any melee-lock desperately needs the feat from Savage Species. *looks it up* Supernatural Transformation. Prereq: SLA. Effect: That SLA is unchanged, but becomes a (su) ability. Ergo, no AoOs, no spell resistance.

2008-03-16, 03:01 PM
I think there was an FAQ ruling that since Supernatural Transformation only works on innate spell-like abilities, it wouldn't do anything for warlocks. Of course, that's just the FAQ, so you don't have to listen, but it does sort of make sense.

Warlock's not a bad choice, dread necromancer could be pretty cool. I might reccomend hexblade, or a barbarian with whirling frenzy (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/classFeatureVariants.htm#rageVariantWhirlingFrenzy ); melee warlocks aren't bad, but you'll only be forcing one save against paralysis per round, and the dread necromancer has a poor base attack bonus. Both hexblade and barbarian will let you make all your natural attacks. (Paladin would work too, but you'd probably need one of the variant paladins.)

2008-03-16, 03:18 PM
alright i will add some spice to this pot of ideas and not say warlock.... how about... an elephant into this gumbo of conversation and say be a paliden or knight.... the back story practically wights itself(pun intended) and would create so many rp opportunities.

beside paralyzing the enemy beats non-lethal damage to avoid killing them...

2008-03-16, 04:24 PM
I'm probably going to stick with warlock, it fits the character well.
I'm saying that becoming undead awakened his warlock powers.
the main problem I'm having is what lesser invocation to take:
Either walk unseen or the dead walk seem good choices to me. If I choose walk unseen then it'll explain how I've avoided the waves of good aligned NPCs who would like to grind me into dust, feed the dust to wolves, then blow up the wolves. But if I take the dead walk then I can have a permanent large skeleton to hide inside, throw on a cloak and add a booming voice and trick people into thinking its me, then spring out when combat starts.
I thought either a Dire bear or etting skeleton looked best.

2008-03-17, 02:48 AM
If you wanna go a non-blasty route?


Full BAB, for hitting. TWF, for Full attack with off hand slam attack. Or Ranged, for a backup ability. Hide as a class skill. Later on, get what you need for a level of shadowdancer, and, with a 32 point build, buff out:
Cha > Dex > Str > Int > Wis

Str 12
Dex 16
Con -
Int 10
Wis 8
Cha 18

For base stats, looks good. Ideally, be a small race for the base (+1 AC/+1 attacks).

With weapon finesse, and small, you'll be accurate. Paralysis Just as effective, and higher BAB makes it more accurate. Ranger stealthy action explains evading the good guys.

2008-03-17, 02:55 AM
I like the hexblade idea. You can penalize their saves before your paralysis touch. Hexblade is not generally a good class though.

I think a tough frontliner would be better though. Your rage durations kinda suck as a barbarian. What about something like Crusader?

What other tough frontliner classes are there. You could take fighter, but you'd need a PrC, as fighter burns out around 8th level or so. Also has little reason to pump charisma. I think hexblade is your best bet. Mettle and charisma to save vs. spell give you additional things from your charisma being high, and you'll get some spells eventually.

Tempest Fennac
2008-03-17, 03:44 AM
I don't think Eldrich Glaive would work: from wht I can gather, it's made of Eldrich energy, so you wouldn't actually be touching the targets yourself. I'd go with Walk Unseen first followed by The Dead Walk (WU probably fits in with the character more due to needing to avoid people). Just thinking, what's your character's alignment?

Keld Denar
2008-03-17, 11:01 AM
Yeah, Hexblade (PHBII Dark Companion variant) just seems to fit perfect. The CHA synergy is huge, the save penalty is nice (same net result as ability focus) the curse is ok (good to do if you don't have anything better to do with your swift action) and mettle is kind of nice as well. After HEX4, or as soon as you can, jump into Blackguard as soon as you can. This nets you a different +cha to saves (you want great saves as undead, since a couple select spells slay you outright...) and if I remember right, Blackguards get rebuke undead. Since your rebuke level will suck, grab Divine Might to spend a rebuke to add your CHA to all your attacks (claw claw bite!). You also get some nice blackguard spells to suppliment your daily life (Undetectable Alignment + Hat of Disguise makes you almost normal!).

2008-03-17, 11:51 AM
My group doesn't really use alignment unless its for stuff like paladins, most characters I make don't even have alignments.
I still think warlock looks the best choice so far, but I'll have a peek at the hexblade.
I'm thinking of applying the evolved undead template because of the fast healing, is it any good?

2008-03-17, 11:58 AM
Ranger doesn't work- you need Multiattack, not TWF, to improve natural attacks.

Keld Denar
2008-03-17, 01:09 PM
I'm thinking of applying the evolved undead template because of the fast healing, is it any good?

Evolved isn't that good unless you can buy off the LA, and as a Gravetouched Ghoul, you already have quite a bit of LA to buy off. The SLAs you get generally will have crappy DCs, so pick personal spells like haste. Unfortunately, they are also only once a day. The fast healing is nice for ooc healing, but in combat it generally isn't enough to make a huge difference and easily compensated for with a Wand of Lessor Vigor (works on undead!) or a Wand of Inflict Light Wounds. You are better off taking a class level to get more hp. Always get more HP because you are DESTROYED at 0 hp, not just disabled.

I'd highly consider a level of Lion Totem Barbarian if you can swing it too. Pounce would be ideal for getting the drop on someone after charging out from hiding and getting the full attack for the highest chance to paralyze. Since you don't have a CON score, normal Rage won't last very long, so consider the PHBII version that triggers automatically at 50% hp. At least you'd get mileage out of it.

I think that going Hexblade/Blackguard will give you more offence and defence than warlock, and make you pretty single atribute dependant, getting saves, damage, and para DCs off it. Your next atribute would probably be Str for more hit and damage, then everything else, then Con, since undead have 0 of it.

2008-03-17, 07:20 PM
On closer inspection evolved undead doesn't seem so great.
And from what crystal keep says about the hexblade, it sounds defenistratingly bad. Ranger just seems unneccessary as the template gives me multiattack for free.

The main problem I need to tackle with this character is that the campaign is set partially within an abnormal antimagic field, details spoilered
It spans the city, so I can't escape it.

Things that don't work: Arcane and Divine magic, magic items

Things that do: Artifice, Spell-like abilities, undead, warforged (but not other constructs)

Things that work differently: Psionics, the DM is adapting the wild magic table for psionics
The campaign isn't going to be there for very long, but I need to be able to survive in that environment for a few sessions if necessary. And worryingly I can't think of non-magical ways to heal undead.

Keld Denar
2008-03-18, 06:09 AM
Regardless of what you read on crystalkeep, hexblade is actually pretty pimp for your situation. Its full BAB like a fighter, if you take the alt class feature, it has a free ability focus that STACKS with ability focus (in the form of a -2 AC/saves aura with no save), gets mettle which means you take 0 damage if you save vs cure spells (and cure SLAs). Its pretty much exactly what you need for what you want to do.

The antimagic is pretty unfortunate. No form of healing (no spells magic items to heal) is very unfortunate. The only real way to get faster than natural regen is through Evolved unless you take 1 level of dread necro for Charnal Touch (infinite negative energy touch). This is a caster and gets away from your melee focus of paralyzing though. Maybe being a warlock and seeing if you can get an invocation that changes your eldrich blast to negative energy (already ones to change to fire and acid, not a far reach). That would give you infinite ooc healing with some warlock fun goodness.

2008-03-18, 07:01 AM
No magic items? Difficult. An Archmage could do it with a negative energy SLA, but you're too low ECL.

Paladins of Slaughter and Tyranny and Blackguards spring to mind- Charisma synergy, negative energy healing as a Su or SLA- what do you think?

2008-03-18, 01:55 PM
My DM has allowed me to take an adjusted version of the Energy Substitution feat.
I can change my eldtricht blast to negative energy, but the damadge (or healing) is one dice less.