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rockdeworld
2008-03-17, 12:58 AM
Credit to Edariel for many of the ideas in this, as well as everyone else who posted helpful critiques in this thread.

Fixed Arcane Archer
Hit Die
d8

Requirements
To qualify to become an arcane archer, a character must fulfill all the following criteria.
Race: Elf.
Base Attack Bonus: +4.
Weapon Proficiency: Must be proficient with at least one straight bow. (straight bows are Shortbow, Longbow, Greatbow and similar weapons)
Feats: Point Blank Shot, Weapon Focus (any straight bow the character is proficient with).
Spells: Ability to cast 2nd-level arcane spells.

Class Skills
The arcane archer’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Balance (Dex), Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Handle Animal (Cha), Jump (Str), Knowledge (Arcana), Knowledge (Dungeoneering), Knowledge (Geography), Knowledge (Nature), Hide (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Profession (Int), Ride (Dex), Search (Int), Spellcraft (Int), Spot (Wis), Survival (Wis), Swim (Str), Tumble (Dex), and Use Rope (Dex).

Skill Points at Each Level
4 + Int modifier.

Class Features
All of the following are Class Features of the arcane archer prestige class.

Weapon and Armor Proficiency
An arcane archer gains no proficiency with any weapons or armor.

Spells per Day
At each level indicated on the arcane archer table (2,3,5,6,8,9), the arcane archer gains new spells per day as if she had also gained a level in whatever arcane spellcasting class she belonged to before she added the prestige class. She does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained. This essentially means that she adds the level of arcane archer to the level of whatever other arcane spellcasting class the character has, then determines spells per day and caster level accordingly.

If a character had more than one arcane spellcasting class before she became an arcane archer, she must decide to which class she adds each level of arcane archer for the purpose of determining spells per day.

Enhance Arrow (Su)
At 1st level, every nonmagical arrow an arcane archer nocks and lets fly becomes magical, gaining a +1 enhancement bonus, or a special ability of the same price. Unlike magic weapons created by normal means, the archer need not spend experience points or gold pieces to accomplish this task. However, an archer’s magic arrows only function for her. For every two levels the character advances past 1st level in the prestige class, the magic arrows she creates gain +1 greater potency (+1 at 1st level, +2 at 3rd level, +3 at 5th level, +4 at 7th level, and +5 at 9th level).

The bonuses applied through Enhance Arrow can be spent on any number of special abilities so long as the total bonus from special abilities and enhancements combined does not exceed the total bonus the arcane archer would receive anyway (i.e. a 4th level arcane archer can fire a +2 arrow, a +1 flaming arrow, or a holy arrow, but not a +1 holy arrow or any other arrangement of bonuses and abilities that would exceed a +2 modifier). These special abilities (if any) must be chosen before making an attack rollbut after bow's enhancements, if any, have been bestown upon the arrow. Essentially, this means that if the arcane archer possesses a bow with an enhancement, she need not add +1 first to her arrows as per normal for making Magic Items.

If the arcane archer is making an Attack Action involving launching multiple arrows, she must use the same enhancements for all the arrows fired. She doesn't have the time to enhance each arrow separately.

An arcane archer can add Bane-property only against creature types that are her favored enemies. If an arcane archer has no favored enemies, she cannot use Enhance Arrow to add Bane-propery upon her arrows. The favored enemy must correspond to the group covered by the Bane Arrow. This makes Bane: Humanoid (Orc) a legal option while Bane: Evil cannot be made even if the character possesses Favored Enemy: Evil. If an Arcane Archer has Favored Enemy: Arcanists, she can make her arrows Magebane.

Imbue Arrow (Sp)
At 2nd level, an arcane archer gains the ability to place an area spell upon an arrow. When the arrow is fired, the spell’s area is centered on where the arrow lands, even if the spell could normally be centered only on the caster. This ability allows the archer to use the bow’s range rather than the spell’s range. It takes a standard action to cast the spell and fire the arrow. The arrow must be fired in the round the spell is cast, or the spell is wasted.

Improved Imbue Arrow (Sp)
At 4th level, an arcane archer gains the ability to place a "touch attack" spell upon an arrow and deliver the spell through a ranged attack. When the arrow is fired and successfully hits a target, the spell is activated on the target as though the arcane archer herself had cast it from the correct range. It takes a standard action to cast the spell and fire the arrow. The arrow must be fired in the round the spell is cast, or the spell is wasted.

Hail of Arrows (Ex)
As a Standard Action, an arcane archer of 6th level or higher can fire an arrow at each and every target within range, to a maximum of one target for every arcane archer level she has earned. Each attack uses the archer’s primary attack bonus, and each enemy may only be targeted by a single arrow.

If the arcane archer uses Enhance Arrow to apply a special ability to her arrows, she must apply the same special abilities to all arrows.

Phase Arrow (Su)
At 8th level, an arcane archer can launch an arrow at a target known to her within range, and the arrow travels to the target in a straight path, passing through any nonmagical barrier or wall in its way. (Any magical barrier stops the arrow.) This ability negates cover, concealment, and even armor modifiers, but otherwise the attack is rolled normally.

Using this ability is a standard action (and shooting the arrow is part of the action).

Greater Imbue Arrow (Sp)
At 10th level, an arcane archer improves her ability to imbue spells upon her arrows. When an arcane archer is using her Imbue Arrow-abilities, she can expend one use of this ability to imbue another area spell, or a spell involving "Touch Attack". Effectively, she can use a Standard Action to fire an arrow containing two spell triggers.

An arcane archer has uses of this ability equal to half her arcane archer class levels rounded up per day.

Instant Arrow (Su)
At 10th level, an arcane archer gains perfect understanding of the relationship between magic and arrows. As a move action, the arcane archer can magically create a non-magical arrow of any material she has fired before. The arrow appears in the arcane archer's hand, allowing it to be knocked as a free action.

An arcane archer has uses of this ability equal to twice her arcane archer class levels per day.

{table=head]Level|Base AttackBonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special|Spells

1st|
+1|
+0|
+2|
+2| Enhance Arrow +1|--

2nd|
+2|
+0|
+3|
+3|Imbue Arrow|+1 level of existing spellcasting class

3rd|
+3|
+1|
+3|
+3|Enhance Arrow +2|+1 level of existing spellcasting class

4th|
+4|
+1|
+4|
+4| Improved Imbue Arrow|--

5th|
+5|
+1|
+4|
+4| Enhance Arrow +3|+1 level of existing spellcasting class

6th|
+6|
+2|
+5|
+5|Hail of Arrows|+1 level of existing spellcasting class

7th|
+7|
+2|
+5|
+5|Enhance Arrow +4|--

8th|
+8|
+2|
+6|
+6|Phase Arrow|+1 level of existing spellcasting class

9th|
+9|
+3|
+6|
+6|Enhance Arrow +5|+1 level of existing spellcasting class

10th|
+10|
+3|
+7|
+7|Greater Imbue Arrow, Instant Arrow|--[/table]

[hr]

[B]Eldritch Archer
Hit Die
d6

Requirements
To qualify to become an eldritch archer, a character must fulfill all the following criteria.
Race: Elf.
Base Attack Bonus: +4.
Weapon Proficiency: Must be proficient with at least one straight bow. (straight bows are Shortbow, Longbow, Greatbow and similar weapons)
Feats: Point Blank Shot, Weapon Focus (any straight bow the character is proficient with).
Spells: Ability to cast 2nd-level arcane spells.

Class Skills
The eldritch archer’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Balance (Dex), Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Handle Animal (Cha), Jump (Str), Knowledge (Arcana), Knowledge (Dungeoneering), Knowledge (Geography), Knowledge (Nature), Hide (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Ride (Dex), Search (Int), Spellcraft (Int), Spot (Wis), Survival (Wis), Swim (Str), Tumble (Dex), and Use Rope (Dex).

Skill Points at Each Level
4 + Int modifier.

Class Features
All of the following are Class Features of the arcane archer prestige class.

Weapon and Armor Proficiency
An eldritch archer gains no proficiency with any weapons or armor.

Spells per Day
From 2nd level on, when a new eldritch archer level is gained, the character gains new spells per day as if she had also gained a level in whatever arcane spellcasting class she belonged to before she added the prestige class. She does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained. This essentially means that she adds the level of eldritch archer to the level of whatever other arcane spellcasting class the character has, then determines spells per day and caster level accordingly.

If a character had more than one arcane spellcasting class before she became an eldritch archer, she must decide to which class she adds each level of arcane archer for the purpose of determining spells per day.

Imbue Arrow (Sp)
At 1st level, an eldritch archer gains the ability to place an area spell upon an arrow. When the arrow is fired, the spell’s area is centered on where the arrow lands, even if the spell could normally be centered only on the caster. This ability allows the archer to use the bow’s range rather than the spell’s range. It takes a standard action to cast the spell and fire the arrow. The arrow must be fired in the round the spell is cast, or the spell is wasted.

Enhance Arrow (Su)
At 2nd level, every nonmagical arrow an eldritch archer nocks and lets fly becomes magical, gaining a +1 enhancement bonus, or a special ability of the same price. Unlike magic weapons created by normal means, the archer need not spend experience points or gold pieces to accomplish this task. However, an archer’s magic arrows only function for her. For every two levels the character advances past 2nd level in the prestige class, the magic arrows she creates gain +1 greater potency (+1 at 2nd level, +2 at 4th level, +3 at 6th level, +4 at 8th level, and +5 at 10th level).

The bonuses applied through Enhance Arrow can be spent on any number of special abilities so long as the total bonus from special abilities and enhancements combined does not exceed the total bonus the eldritch archer would receive anyway (i.e. a 4th level eldritch archer can fire a +2 arrow, a +1 flaming arrow, or a holy arrow, but not a +1 holy arrow or any other arrangement of bonuses and abilities that would exceed a +2 modifier). These special abilities (if any) must be chosen before making an attack roll.

{table=head]Level|Base Attack[br]Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special|Spells
1st|+1|+0|+2|+2|Imbue Arrow|--
2nd|+2|+1|+3|+3|Enhance Arrow +1|+1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class
3rd|+3|+1|+3|+3| |+1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class
4th|+4|+1|+4|+4|Enhance arrow +2|+1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class
5th|+5|+1|+4|+4| |+1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class
6th|+6|+2|+5|+5|Enhance arrow +3|+1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class
7th|+7|+2|+5|+5| |+1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class
8th|+8|+2|+6|+6|Enhance arrow +4|+1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class
9th|+9|+3|+6|+6| |+1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class
10th|+10|+3|+7|+7|Enhance arrow +5|+1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class[/table]

Yakk
2008-03-17, 01:56 AM
Enhance arrow changes are nice.


The bonuses applied through Enhance Arrow can be spent on any number of special abilities so long as the total bonus from special abilities and enhancements combined does not exceed the total bonus the arcane archer would receive anyway (i.e. a 4th level arcane archer can fire a +2 arrow, a +1 flaming arrow, or a holy arrow, but not a +1 holy arrow or any other arrangement of bonuses and abilities that would exceed a +2 modifier). These special abilities (if any) must be chosen before making an attack roll.

Might I suggest some rules about "learning" new special abilities from found magic arrows and bows? (or even any magic item)

You can even require that the Archer burn spells per day slots for options...

Otherwise, you run the risk of the player pulling out a splatbook and saying "I fire an arrow X", where X is something you have to rule on the balance of on the spot. :)

...

Eldrich Archer blows away Eldrich Knight. d8 HD instead of d6...

The Capstone ability of the Arcane Archer is a bit questionable. To get to Arcane 10, you need to be at least level 18! At level 18, a once-per-day-break DC 20+stat death effect isn't anything special. And you lose a caster level for it.

Random Idea: drop her BaB to 1/2, and add in the special: "The Arcane Archer can add her class level to her BaB for the purpose of ranged bow or crossbow attacks. This cannot allow her BaB to exceed her HD."

This allows the Arcane Archer to "catch up" lost BaB, but only for ranged attacks.

...

The requirements: two feats (which don't require a fighting class to get), a race restriction, 3rd level spells and BaB requirement.

Wiz/Sorc 6 is +3 BaB and 3rd level spells.

One can either take 4 more levels of Wiz/Sorc, and produce a 10 caster/10 archer, or 2 levels of a high-BaB class and top off with something like Abjurant Champion.

10/10 gives +15 BaB, 19(!) caster levels with Eldrich Archer, all for the cost of two feats.

In exchange you get high Fort and Will saves (why not reflex?!), d8 HD over 10 levels instead of d4...

...

I think one should encourage the player to not go pure-caster into the class.

...

The class uses a mixture of Eldritch Knight and Abjurant Champion entry requirements. The Abj. Champ was actually misdesigned: it was supposed to be for a tank-type class who splashed spellcaster.

Together, these result in your class min entry being level 9 to 11. A bit late for most PrCs, especially one that you'd think was a flavorful as these ones...

...


The arcane archer’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are the class skill lists from the Arcane Archer's previous classes.

That's a bit of a strange note.

...


Skill Points at Each Level
4 + Int modifier.

Traditionally, gishes give up skill points.


Weapon and Armor Proficiency
An arcane archer is proficient with all simple and martial weapons, light armor, and medium armor.

That's also questionable. Typically gish classes require weapon/armor proficiencies, they don't provide them. :)

...

My thoughts: Give it a good Reflex, and poor Fort/Will.

Retailor the entry requirements, aiming at a (Wiz|Sorc) 4/(Melee 1) -> Arcane/Eldrich Archer path.

Alternatively, have one aim for (Wiz|Sorc) 4/(Melee 1), and the other for (Fighter 4)/(Wiz|Sorc 1).

That places the capstone of both progressions at level 15.

...

The Arcane Archer specials .. suck. Remember the alternative is usually casting a spell or firing a volley of arrows.

rockdeworld
2008-03-17, 06:34 AM
Good arguements, I think. You've got a long post, so I'll just go through and answer inside the quote with bold blue letters. Gaah! Too bright!

Enhance arrow changes are nice.
Thanks! :smallsmile: Since Eladriel came up with the same idea and posted it first, though, credit goes to her.

Might I suggest some rules about "learning" new special abilities from found magic arrows and bows? (or even any magic item)
That's a good idea. I could say the AA can only use magic abilities she has "learned" from a magic item, which would require a free action of touching the magic item w/ detect magic activated.

You can even require that the Archer burn spells per day slots for options...
I don't know that that would help...

Otherwise, you run the risk of the player pulling out a splatbook and saying "I fire an arrow X", where X is something you have to rule on the balance of on the spot. :)
Thanks for pointing that out! I didn't think of that when I was designing it.

...

Eldrich Archer blows away Eldrich Knight. d8 HD instead of d6...
Well, I figured the bow pre-reqs would make it so that the Archer really would be an archer... But really, fighter's don't deserve a d6 HD ever, even if they were once spellcasters.

The Capstone ability of the Arcane Archer is a bit questionable. To get to Arcane 10, you need to be at least level 18! At level 18, a once-per-day-break DC 20+stat death effect isn't anything special. And you lose a caster level for it.
Yeah, you're right about that. I just wanted to make it more versatile than 20 period. I don't really think arrows of death work all that well anyways, since most monsters have basically fort. saves = their level (give or take) after CR10. But if you have a better idea, I'd be happy to hear it. Maybe "Arcane Shot" as made up by the last guy, or something.

Random Idea: drop her BaB to 1/2, and add in the special: "The Arcane Archer can add her class level to her BaB for the purpose of ranged bow or crossbow attacks. This cannot allow her BaB to exceed her HD."

This allows the Arcane Archer to "catch up" lost BaB, but only for ranged attacks.
That seems really weird to me. Caster BaB progression with a special ability just for using bows? I guess it would work, but it seems almost to be stretching the limits of making a class
...

The requirements: two feats (which don't require a fighting class to get), a race restriction, 3rd level spells and BaB requirement.

Wiz/Sorc 6 is +3 BaB and 3rd level spells.

One can either take 4 more levels of Wiz/Sorc, and produce a 10 caster/10 archer, or 2 levels of a high-BaB class and top off with something like Abjurant Champion.

10/10 gives +15 BaB, 19(!) caster levels with Eldrich Archer, all for the cost of two feats.
Maybe I'm not clear on the feat-to-power ratio... A normal character only gets 7, so is giving up 2 of them and taking a CL dip worth the Eldritch Archer's class?

In exchange you get high Fort and Will saves (why not reflex?!), d8 HD over 10 levels instead of d4...
I didn't choose reflex because I thought "why bother? They're fighters and mages, not rogues and mages or something like that. Thus fort. and will. the HD I already mentioned above so I won't repeat.
...

I think one should encourage the player to not go pure-caster into the class.
I agree.
...

The class uses a mixture of Eldritch Knight and Abjurant Champion entry requirements. The Abj. Champ was actually misdesigned: it was supposed to be for a tank-type class who splashed spellcaster.
I wouldn't know, since I don't have a PHBII :smalltongue:

Together, these result in your class min entry being level 9 to 11. A bit late for most PrCs, especially one that you'd think was a flavorful as these ones...

...


The arcane archer’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are the class skill lists from the Arcane Archer's previous classes.
That's a bit of a strange note.
It's actually explicit in the rules, I just wanted to make it clear.
...

Traditionally, gishes give up skill points.
Why?

<snip>
That's also questionable. Typically gish classes require weapon/armor proficiencies, they don't provide them. :)
Maybe now would be a good time to say I don't know what "gish" means? I guess it means homebrewed, but eh. The AA has the same line in it (albeit with shields) so I kept it.
...

My thoughts: Give it a good Reflex, and poor Fort/Will.
I'd rather keep Fort or Will than dump them both.

Retailor the entry requirements, aiming at a (Wiz|Sorc) 4/(Melee 1) -> Arcane/Eldrich Archer path.

Alternatively, have one aim for (Wiz|Sorc) 4/(Melee 1), and the other for (Fighter 4)/(Wiz|Sorc 1).

That places the capstone of both progressions at level 15.
I'd rather make it easier to have a wiz/sor enter than to force someone to go to level 4, which for a melee character means a loss of 2 BaB. Maybe just being able to cast arcane spells with some different prereqs would be good...
...

The Arcane Archer specials .. suck. Remember the alternative is usually casting a spell or firing a volley of arrows.
What? Arcane Archers can do both of those things - moreover, they can do even more. At level 10 an AA under a seige with enemies at the gates can pull out a hundred or so arrows, set them all on "vorpal" and fire 'em off with her "Hail of Arrows" ability, ripping through the enemy forces. Or an AA can provide cover fire for just about anything by staying back and "sniping" with Imbue arrow and various affects like sleep, confusion, an antimagic field (for those cult missions :P), or even glitterdust. I think if played right, the AA can be an awesome class, not a choice between wondering "why didn't I stay wizard?" and "why didn't I go pure fighter?"

MorkaisChosen
2008-03-17, 12:23 PM
Reflex is right, I think, because this is a dextrous archer, not a big meaty fighter.

Remember- the Arcane Archer is basically the archetypal Elf, and they're more dodgy than tough.

I think a proficiency requirement a la Eldritch Knight would be important for Eldritch Archer- all Martial weapons required.

Yakk
2008-03-17, 06:16 PM
Gish refers to a mage/fighter hybrid, slang based off a kind of monster that where, well, mage/fighter hybrids. :)

You are getting magical and martial power -- in theory, you should be giving up something for it. This often ends up being taken from HD, Saves or Skill points.

ShneekeyTheLost
2008-03-17, 09:11 PM
My two cents:

Enhance Arrow is a nice change, however you might want to put in the caveat that the weapon in question must have at least a +1 enhancement bonus before applying equivelant abilities, following the rules for equivelant abilities on normally enchanted items.

Imbue Arrow. Right, no changes here.

Channel Arrow. Absolutely awsome!

Phase Arrow. At least it's no longer 1/day. Personally, though, I'd rather see something else here. Maybe free Weapon Specialization in the bow you had Weapon Focus in to qualify for the PrC? Doesn't sound like much, but a +2 to damage is still a +2 to damage that stacks with everything else, and would likely be more useful in the long run.

Hail of Arrows. Stinks. If you're surrounded by a horde of critters at this level, they're all gonna need more than one arrow per person, and you're likely going to pop off some sort of battlefield control spell (Cloudkill, perhaps?). I'd probably replace this with an ability to increase your rate of fire in a full round action by one, which stacks with Haste and Rapid Shot. This keeps the flavor of 'whole lot of arrows', but without the suck of being forced to spread the damage out equally ineffectively.

Arrow of Death. Why bother? I have Finger of Death and Channel Spell. Try something different.

Eldrich Archer

Sure, it has more casting, but it's also fairly broken as written. It's a full BAB, with 9/10 casting, better HD than Eldrich Knight, *AND* you get +5 enhancement FREE. That means you get Speed (effective haste), Bane of Choice (since there's no mention that you have to keep the same effects, so just Bane vs whatever you're shooting at), + Elemental Flavor of Choice, depending on target. So I'm doing +3d6 and an extra arrow a round. Plus the otherwise same stats as Eldrich Knight with better HD. Or, if it isn't a construct or undead, Brilliant Energy + Bane of Choice. Not only +2d6 damage, but ignores all armor/natural armor bonuses. Great for dropping the Taurrasque, or any Dragon.

My suggestion:

Drop Eldrich Archer. The concept doesn't work as written. Use EK if you're wanting to do this, and not be crack overpowered.

Change out Phase Arrow, Hail of Arrows, and Death Arrow on your Arcane Archer. None of them are really any good, and this class, if you take it to all 10 levels, prevents you from getting 9th level spells (pre-epic). There is literally NO reason to take the 10th level, because I can simply Channel Spell + Finger of Death, so I'll dip into AbChamp or something to get the full BAB and the caster level. Make these abilities WORTH not getting 9th level spells.

MorkaisChosen
2008-03-18, 07:05 AM
Slightly off topic, but does no-one read the rules on Brilliant Energy? IT DOESN'T IGNORE NATURAL ARMOUR.

EDIT: Sorry, unnecessarily angry tone. I don't mean to offend anyone.

rockdeworld
2008-03-18, 07:22 PM
Nice, I got the original author of the previous 2 AA fixes (ShneekeyTheLost) to comment :smallsmile:

MorkaisChosen is right about Brilliant Energy (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/magicWeapons.htm#brilliantEnergy).

I'd also like to point out that going into the AA at all pretty much gaurantees that you can't get 9th level spells in the normal 20 levels, because the AA drops 4 caster levels (and even wizard doesn't get 9th level spells until level 17).

I lowered the BAB and spell prerequisites to allow lower-level characters to enter the PrC. The lowest I can see someone entering is level 5 with Fighter 1/SorWiz 4, or something. How's the capstone look now?

Eldariel
2008-03-19, 10:36 AM
I'll post my version here too (or well, my latest set of ideas put into a build; most of these are incorporated in rockdeworld's latest edit too and many of the abilities come from his earlier version):

Arcane Archer Redux

Hit Die: d8

Requirements
To qualify to become an arcane archer, a character must fulfill all the following criteria.
Race: Elf.
Base Attack Bonus: +4.
Skills: Craft (Bowmaking) 8 ranks.
Feats: Point Blank Shot, Weapon Focus (any straight bow the character is proficient with).
Weapon Proficiency: Must be proficient with at least one straight bow. (straight bows are Shortbow, Longbow, Greatbow and similar weapons)
Spells: Ability to cast 3rd-level arcane spells.

{table=head]Level | Base Attack Bonus | Fort Save | Ref Save | Will Save | Special | Spells per Day
1 | +1 | +0 | +2 | +2 | Enhance Arrow +1, Arrow of Death, Fletching | --
2 | +2 | +0 | +3 | +3 | Imbue Arrow | +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class
3 | +3 | +1 | +3 | +3 | Enhance Arrow +2 | +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class
4 | +4 | +1 | +4 | +4 | Improved Imbue Arrow | --
5 | +5 | +1 | +4 | +4 | Enhance Arrow +3, Master Fletcher +1 | +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class
6 | +6 | +2 | +5 | +5 | Hail of Arrows | +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class
7 | +7 | +2 | +5 | +5 | Enhance Arrow +4 | --
8 | +8 | +2 | +6 | +6 | Phase Arrow | +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class
9 | +9 | +3 | +6 | +6 | Enhance Arrow +5 | +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class
10 | +10 | +3 | +7 | +7 | Greater Imbue Arrow, Master Fletcher +2 | --[/table]


Class Skills
The arcane archer’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Balance (Dex), Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Handle Animal (Cha), Jump (Str), Knowledge (Arcana), Knowledge (Dungeoneering), Knowledge (Geography), Knowledge (Nature), Hide (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Ride (Dex), Search (Int), Spellcraft (Int), Spot (Wis), Survival (Wis), Swim (Str), Tumble (Dex), and Use Rope (Dex).

Skill Points at Each Level
6 + Int modifier.

Class Features
All of the following are Class Features of the arcane archer prestige class.

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: An arcane archer gains no proficiency with any weapons or armor.

Spells per Day: At each level indicated on the arcane archer table, the arcane archer gains new spells per day (and spells known, if applicable) as if she had also gained a level in whatever arcane spellcasting class she belonged to before she added the prestige class. She does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained. This essentially means that she adds the level of arcane archer to the level of whatever other arcane spellcasting class the character has, then determines spells per day and caster level accordingly.

If a character had more than one arcane spellcasting class before she became an arcane archer, she must decide to which class she adds each level of arcane archer for the purpose of determining spells per day.

Enhance Arrow (Su)
At 1st level, every nonmagical arrow an arcane archer nocks and lets fly becomes magical, gaining a +1 enhancement bonus, or a special ability of the same price. Unlike magic weapons created by normal means, the archer need not spend experience points or gold pieces to accomplish this task. However, an archer’s magic arrows only function for her. For every two levels the character advances past 1st level in the prestige class, the magic arrows she creates gain +1 greater potency (+1 at 1st level, +2 at 3rd level, +3 at 5th level, +4 at 7th level, and +5 at 9th level).

The bonuses applied through Enhance Arrow can be spent on any number of special abilities, with the exception of Bane, so long as the total bonus from special abilities and enhancements combined does not exceed the total bonus the arcane archer would receive anyway (i.e. a 4th level arcane archer can fire a +2 arrow, a +1 flaming arrow, or a holy arrow, but not a +1 holy arrow or any other arrangement of bonuses and abilities that would exceed a +2 modifier). These special abilities, if any, must be chosen before making an attack roll, but after bow's enhancements, if any, have been bestown upon the arrow. Essentially, this means that if the arcane archer possesses a bow with an enhancement, she need not add +1 first to her arrows as per normal for making Magic Items.

If the arcane archer is making an Attack Action involving launching multiple arrows, she must use the same enhancements for all the arrows fired. She doesn't have the time to enhance each arrow separately.

An arcane archer can add Bane-property only against creature types that are her favored enemies. If an arcane archer has no favored enemies, she cannot use Enhance Arrow to add Bane-propery upon her arrows. The favored enemy must correspond to the group covered by the Bane Arrow. This makes Bane: Humanoid (Orc) a legal option while Bane: Evil cannot be made even if the character possesses Favored Enemy: Evil. If an Arcane Archer has Favored Enemy: Arcanists, she can make her arrows Magebane.

Arrow of Death (Sp)
At 1st level, an arcane archer can create an arrow of death that forces the target, if damaged by the arrow’s attack, to make a Fortitude save (DC 10 + the arcane archer's class level + the arcane archer's primary spellcasting ability modifier) or be slain immediately. An arcane archer must make the appropriate Craft (Bowmaking) checks herself to fletch the arrow. Treat arrow of death as an item with a base sp cost of 1000 and a craft DC of 25. The arcane archer need not perform the other parts involved in item creation. The arrow of death lasts no longer than one year, and the archer can only have one such arrow in existence at a time.

Fletching (Su)
At 1st level, an arcane archer gains the ability to create magic arrows (and only arrows) with an enchantment bonus equal to half her class level rounded up, and an effective enhancement bonus equal to her class level, as if she possessed the Craft Magic Arms and Armor feat and met all other requirements for the arrow she wishes to make.

Imbue Arrow (Sp)
At 2nd level, an arcane archer gains the ability to place an area spell upon an arrow. When the arrow is fired, the spell’s area is centered on where the arrow lands, even if the spell could normally be centered only on the caster. This ability allows the archer to use the bow’s range rather than the spell’s range. It takes a standard action to cast the spell and fire the arrow. The arrow must be fired in the round the spell is cast, or the spell is wasted.

Improved Imbue Arrow (Sp)
At 4th level, an arcane archer gains the ability to place a "touch attack" spell upon an arrow and deliver the spell through a ranged attack. When the arrow is fired and successfully hits a target, the spell is activated on the target as though the arcane archer herself had cast it from the correct range. It takes a standard action to cast the spell and fire the arrow. The arrow must be fired in the round the spell is cast, or the spell is wasted.

Master Fletcher (Ex)
Any masterwork arrows crafted by an arcane archer of 5th level or higher are so finely made that they grant a +1 competence bonus to damage dealt with them. At level 10, this bonus increases to +2.

Hail of Arrows (Ex)
As a Standard Action, an arcane archer of 6th level or higher can fire an arrow at each and every target within range, to a maximum of one target for every arcane archer level she has earned. Each attack uses the archer’s primary attack bonus, and each enemy may only be targeted by a single arrow.

Phase Arrow (Su)
At 8th level, an arcane archer can launch an arrow at a target known to her within range, and the arrow travels to the target in a straight path, passing through any nonmagical barrier or wall in its way. (Any magical barrier stops the arrow.) This ability negates cover, concealment, and even armor modifiers, but otherwise the attack is rolled normally.

Using this ability is a standard action (and shooting the arrow is part of the action).

Greater Imbue Arrow (Sp)
At 10th level, an arcane archer improves her ability to imbue spells upon her arrows. When an arcane archer is using her Imbue Arrow-abilities, she can expend one use of this ability to imbue another area spell, or a spell involving "Touch Attack". Effectively, she can use a Standard Action to fire an arrow containing two spell triggers.

An arcane archer has uses of this ability equal to half her arcane archer class levels rounded up per day.



Reasoning for these:
-I wanted to add Fletching to give the character some options if she wants to make some over +5 arrows; since she's able to enhance them on fly, it doesn't make sense that she couldn't do it out of combat, so I think the ability is almost necessary to add from logic standpoint and to make it not overlap with enhance arrow, I figured might as well make the ability advance twice as fast (since there's the additional cost of time, exp and gold added).

-I wanted the Craft itself to be useful; when I think of an Elven Archer, I think of an Elven warrior perfectly capable of fending for herself in the wilds and make all her supplies herself if necessary; Craft (Bowmaking) seems like an ability every AA should have so I made it a prerequisite, and gave the Elven Archer some abilities related to it (making Arrow of Death is now a bunch of Craft-checks, as it should be, and Master Fletcher shows how an Arcane Archer's understanding of her weapon and ability as an archer continue to increase in lieu of her unique talents and her magical powers; arrows she crafts herself are more deadly than even the Masterwork Arrows of conventional fletchers; it also gives her a mechanical reason to actually craft some arrows by herself instead of just buying stock)

-The extra skillpoints are there to make her more wilderness savvy; since we're talking about the quinessential Elven Archer, she needs to be more able to fend for herself in the wilds than just Survival, so I added most of Ranger's skill list. She still possesses mundane talent even though she's training as a Wizard. This makes all the more sense as she loses caster levels. 6+Int skillpoints is the same as Unseen Seer's skill pool, which I think is appropriate since Unseen Seer is the Wizard Rogue and Arcane Archer should be, in my humble opinion, a sort of Wizard Ranger (as a class itself; the prerequisites make it possible for all sorts of characters to enter, but Wizard Ranger gets the most bang for the buck out of the abilities; limiting Bane-enhancement to Favored Enemies further pushes this point).

-I really wanted the abilities to reflect that she's an Arcanist (Imbue Arrow, Arrow of Death, Improved Imbue Arrow, Greater Imbue Arrow, caster levels), an Elf (skill list, skill points/level; do note that Elven Ranger Substitution Levels get extra skill points compared to normal too) and an Archer (full BAB, Master Fletcher, Hail of Arrows), while most importantly being a combination of all above (Enhance Arrow, Fletching, Arrow of Death).

-I wanted level 10 to be worth taking even though it loses a caster level, so I gave a very strong ability (free Quicken Spell 5/day) along with many abilities advancing well (Arrow of Death, Hail of Arrows (since it's only limited by max range, it's very strong to get extra targets), Fletching, Master Fletcher) so it should give you enough bang for the buck to make it worth taking.

-Saves can't really be anything else; an Arcanist without high Will is unheard of and an Archer without high Ref is equally impossible.

-I agree that Precise Shot need not be a prerequisite as every AA should pick it up anyways (or they're shooting their allies with their Imbued spells), but it shouldn't be necessary to pick it that early since an Elf is low on feats and an Elf Archer (feat intensive)/Wizard (feat intensive) is even more so, so only requiring two feats allows pushing Precise Shot a bit further in the feat tree when being busy with the qualifications.

-I suggested changing Channel Arrow into Improved Imbue Arrow to make it an ability line with Greater Imbue Arrow and to make Greater Imbue Arrow possible to name (since it's an improvement on both abilities, it'd have to be something like Improved Imbue/Channel Arrow if the names were different. Since they're essentially different levels of the same ability, making them a skill line made perfect sense). Also, Channel reflects something you cast through a weapon when contacting the opponent; the spell isn't actually stored if Channeled, the weapon just serves as a transmitter. That doesn't really work with arrows since they never touch both, you and the foe, so Imbuing is more correct language.

-I'd again like to emphasize that Hail of Arrows works at any range. Therefore, you can fire a Hail at 10 targets 1000' away with a Composite Longbow. You can do the same 2000' away with a Greatbow and Far Shot. Add Dragonbone and Ranged Weapon Mastery and we're talking 3000'. May be we should double the number of targets you get though; 2 targets per AA level could be good as level 10 AA could fire at 20 targets basically anywhere. Superb bombardment against armies and the like (although I suppose you'd be casting spells of mass destruction against armies).



Note that I wrote basically all this in the other thread too, I just moved it here since rockdeworld suggested we should continue the discussion here. I like how Instant Arrow is looking; kind of like Major Creation for Arrows only. Maybe it could require a Craft-check too so it'd work identically to Major Creation, except with an Instant casting time as opposed to 10 mins. That'd also further make Craft a useful skill, which makes all sorts of flavour sense for an Elven Wilderness Archer.

I was also considering Evasion as a class feature, although I'm not sure if it's necessary. It would sort of make sense as we're talking about a wilderness savvy Archer here; she isn't like to get caught in fireballs when succeeding her saves. Without Evasion, I think Martial Rogue 2 is a superb lead into the class, but if Evasion was a class feature, I'd think the pressure to pick up Evasion outside the class would be lessened and thus make different entries more interesting options.

You have a point about Phase Arrow. It's a Standard Action for a pretty much guaranteed hit, but you're giving up either 4 other attacks, the chance to cast one or two spells while at it or a number of other things. Maybe it should be usable as a Swift Action? Although, it isn't much better than the Quickened True Strikes every AA has access to. The ability to shoot through walls is sweet though, so maybe having it be Swift could be intriguing. If you know the location of the BBEG (through divinations or whatever), you can shoot him right through all the dungeon walls or whatever he's got with an Enhanced Arrow specifically tailored for him (or even something you specifically Fletched for the sitiuation; an arrow with +19 worth of abilities knocking (+10 from the arrow, +5 from GMW, +~5 from the bow) at your door is all kinds of trouble especially if you're confined by your own walls while your opponent isn't. I suppose it just makes Scrying all the stronger; having bow's range to work with is interesting. I'm not sure if it should be improved or not; it seems to have its uses, no matter how niché and it's at the very least infinite True Strike-replica.

MorkaisChosen
2008-03-19, 12:07 PM
You could replace the Bane ban with a ruling a bit like the Soulknife has on weapon enhancements (fixed and can change it with 8 hours rest) although it doesn't fit the flavour quite so well.
Just a sugegstion, may not be the best way to do it.

Eldariel
2008-03-19, 12:33 PM
I think the present way is great. It does 3 major things:
-Keeps Bane from being abused.
-Has clear flavour (to be able to make a Bane-arrow for a type, you need to have studied the Type enough to make the appropriate Bane)
-Synergizes the class with Ranger to a degree while not requiring any Ranger-levels to work to great effect.


Although having the abilities chosen when preparing spells could certainly be interesting; it makes sense (as you can attune your arrows to certain abilities when working Magic) and has some balancing effects. On the downside, it just effectively makes it seem as if your bow has further enhancements equal to the power of your Enhance Arrow as opposed to the arrows being separate units. Also, I prefer the flavour of enhancing arrows on the fly to having some weird lingering enhancement on them. Lingering enhancement works too much like a spell while not being one, making it annoying.

Maybe we should make 'allowed'-list for enhancements rather than 'banned'-list? Makes it easier to work with new material and forgives us for forgetting something blatantly broken when used against specific types.

I really want to keep the Favored Enemy-synergy; it helps make Ranger a viable candidate for the class (even though it gets 1 less feat than Fighter early on) and makes the class feel more 'Elffy' to me.


EDIT: Seems like I've forgotten to write this up, but I also think Enhance Arrow's alignment-based abilities should be limited by your base alignment, so you can only make a Chaotic (or Anarchic or similar) arrow if you're Chaotic, Lawful (or Axiomatic or similar) if you're Lawful, Good (or Holy or similar) if you're Good and Evil (or Unholy or similar) if you're Evil. Would make it a bit more limited in piercing damage reductions all the while dealing extra damage, and would make your character more involved in how you use your weapon. If you need to pierce Chaotic DR and you're Chaotic yourself, you need to pick Force instead of Axiomatic (which would cause level loss if it were permanent ability on the weapon, but Enhance Arrow gets past that, which is why I think those abilities should be limited) and thus have to give up 2d6 points of damage. I think that'd be logical, interesting and efficient.

Yakk
2008-03-19, 06:54 PM
So the idea of "spell slots for arrow enhancements":
Lose a spell per day slot of level X in exchange for a learning an arrow enhancement of value +X, or multiple enhancements that add up to X.

One must also consume the magic from a magical arrow or other ammunition containing that enhancement.

...

This is still quite cheap, but it makes the player consume some resources to learn new arrow enchantments. And it means that the DM can restrict what arrow enhancements the player can find.

Eldariel
2008-03-20, 09:57 AM
That idea seems worth developing. Maybe have you get certain amount of enhancements each level-up as their own 'spell list' of sorts (as a part of your own study) and you could get extras by studying weapons with the given ability? Then you could prepare certain number to use per day, much like Martial Maneuvers without the whole recouping part? Or maybe make them a part of the Wizard-advancement as suggested, taking spellslots instead. Then you'd have to pay for the versatility; the more options you want with arrows, the less spells you'll have available.

I like these ideas. What do you think, which works the best?

rockdeworld
2008-03-20, 07:03 PM
Using spell slots for arrow enhancements sounds the best, but I'd like to give the Archer some more powerful abilities for that. After all, the more <ability X for spell slot Y> you apply to your arrows, the less spells you have to imbue arrows with.

Eldariel
2008-03-20, 07:32 PM
How do we go about teaching her new ones though? I think the best idea thus far is to link it to finding a weapon with the weapon enhancement (that you know of) and making some Spellcraft-check to add it to your repertoire, just like Wizard learns spells from a scroll.

Taking it one step further, you could make it depend on your Arcane learning method; Wizards (and casters capable of learning spells from scrolls in general) would learn some base number each level along with the ability to study weapons, while spontaneous casters learn a number of them intuitively and can't further increase their repertoire. That may be needlessly complex though, so I suppose we should scratch that.


I agree that especially with the limited spellslot progression of an AA, we're needlessly gimping her if we don't give her extra spellslots to play with or something to go with Enhance Arrow. All it does mechanically is cut away some of her versatility; she'll still have the most powerful ones memorized, just lacking in the Swiss Army Knife-part.