Problem with Druid Wild Shape Communication

[Lucyfur]

As a DM, would you go for this custom item that would allow the wild shaped druid to communicate?

http://re3.yt-thm-a01.yimg.com/image/25/f10/323325232

MASK OF ANIMAL SPEECH
Price: 4,000gp (8th)
Body Slot: Face
Activation Continuous
Weight: 3lbs

Leafy green mask.
A mask of animal speech allows a druid to speak normally while wild shaped.
Prerequisites: Craft Wondrous Items, Speak with animals
Cost to Create: 2,000 gp, 160 XP, 4 days.

This would only be to chat with fellow players (in character), and to give orders to elemental summons.

Overpowered? Under priced?

Is not being able to communicate the drawback to the awesomeness of being wild shaped?

There's not really an satisfactory way to communicate while wild shaped.

I used the creating a magic item table to the DMG, and doubled the price for being able to use it while wild shaped.

Thoughts?

[SamTheCleric]

Well, unless you had a wildling clasp... it would just meld while you were wildshaped.

:smallbiggrin:

[mostlyharmful]

Just add in the flavour bit that the mask only lets them talk to those they have a real connection with, those they know realllllly well (PC mates) or those they have a magical connection to (Summons). That lets the player get on with having fun while keeping the only remaining drawback wildshape really has. It looks if the right price range but I'd be meaner and make it a neck slot to make them choose between this and a wildling clasped amulet of wisdom (or at least marking up the amulets price)

[TRM]

*snip*

Is not being able to communicate the drawback to the awesomeness of being wild shaped?

There's not really an satisfactory way to communicate while wild shaped.

I used the creating a magic item table to the DMG, and doubled the price for being able to use it while wild shaped.

Thoughts?
Correct me if I'm wrong (I'm not an optimizer), but I think that the (bolded) text is very, very true. I understand that at a certain level (edit: at 7th level, a druid can spend 21 straight hours wildshaped... 24 at 8th) the druid can spend all beeping day wildshaped and being able to function completely normally (spells and talking, etc...) would break them even more than they already are.

That said, if your group isn't a group of cheesemongers this would probably be fine. Maybe add a bit more flavor and a couple of restrictions (like maybe ze ones that mostlyharmful suggested :smallwink: ) and I'd definitely allow it. It's a cool idea.

[Paul H]

Hi

If you shape into something that has vocal chords you can still speak. If you take a level in Master Many Forms you can communicate with any others of the type you shape into.

Eg. Master Forms (20) shapes into a Troll, he can speak troll. (And since he can talk he can speak any languages he could before [except his previous racial language]).

Cheers
Paul H

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Ghostwise halfling. Racial telepathy FTW.

[MeklorIlavator]

Hi

If you shape into something that has vocal chords you can still speak. If you take a level in Master Many Forms you can communicate with any others of the type you shape into.

Eg. Master Forms (20) shapes into a Troll, he can speak troll. (And since he can talk he can speak any languages he could before [except his previous racial language]).

Cheers
Paul H
Really?

Wild Shape (Su): :snip:

A druid loses her ability to speak while in animal form because she is limited to the sounds that a normal, untrained animal can make, but she can communicate normally with other animals of the same general grouping as her new form. (The normal sound a wild parrot makes is a squawk, so changing to this form does not permit speech.)

:snip:
This seems to disagree with you.

Ghostwise halfling. Racial telepathy FTW.

Okay, I must know, were is this race. If it really exists, it is made of win.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Okay, I must know, were is this race. If it really exists, it is made of win.Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting. It's a standard halfling, without the +1 to saves and with 20ft telepathy. And, yes, yes it is. :smallcool:

[TRM]

Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting. It's a standard halfling, without the +1 to saves and with 20ft telepathy. And, yes, yes it is. :smallcool:
No LA?
*jawdrop*

[FlyMolo]

Take 5 levels of Warshaper
Multimorph into yourself
??????
PROFIT!!!!

[mostlyharmful]

No LA?
*jawdrop*

Hence it's firm place in the Druids Handbook over on the CharOp boards, they're amazing little buggers that even fit fluffwise. Just a tad munchkin.:smallbiggrin:

[GoodbyeSoberDay]

Of course, you could always go the old fashioned route and have your friendly NPC caster permanency Rary's Telepathic Bond on the entire group. All the sudden, you're a bunch of shadowrunners, with your subvocalizing and your... turning into bears... never mind.

[Tengu]

Well, unless you had a wildling clasp... it would just meld while you were wildshaped.

:smallbiggrin:

Only if your DM is a RAWtard.

[leperkhaun]

i think that for 5000 you can get a continus speak with animal item.

[Tyger]

Only if your DM is a RAWtard.


That's unfair in the extreme. The loss of magic items is one of the (admitedly failed) balances on wildshape. Using Wildling Clasp or another enchantment places limits on an acknowledged highly powerful class.

Not RAWtard at all. More like fair and balanced.

[Wolf53226]

That's unfair in the extreme. The loss of magic items is one of the (admitedly failed) balances on wildshape. Using Wildling Clasp or another enchantment places limits on an acknowledged highly powerful class.

Not RAWtard at all. More like fair and balanced.

Except for the fact that the whole POINT of this item is to talk while in wild shape. If you DM gives you/lets you create such an item, then decides that it isn't going to work, he is being antagonistic. Either don't have one/let your characters create one, or let them have it and let it work, but don't give it to them then take it away because your an @$$.

[SamTheCleric]

Well, considering a wildling clasp itself costs 4000gp... i'd say this item is a little low on the price side. Maybe 5500gp to include the ability of a wildling clasp in it. Tack on a 1/day speak with animals or comp languages or something to add some zest. Simmer on low. Serve with fresh strawberries.

[Tyger]

Except for the fact that the whole POINT of this item is to talk while in wild shape. If you DM gives you/lets you create such an item, then decides that it isn't going to work, he is being antagonistic. Either don't have one/let your characters create one, or let them have it and let it work, but don't give it to them then take it away because your an @$$.

Which was my point, though I should have made it more clearly. Yes, this is an underpriced item. It circumvents one of the major drawbacks to wildshaping all day, and does so by also over-ruling the rules on magic items morphing in to you when you shift. Thus this is underpriced.

The price is about right, if you add a Wildling Clasp to it. In the alternative, add in the features of the Wildling Clasp (and the associated cost) and you are in the realm of fairness.

[Lucyfur]

The Stormfire Ring in the MiC cost 4,000gp and functions while in wildshape. 5/day of damaging faerie fire.

[Wolf53226]

Which was my point, though I should have made it more clearly. Yes, this is an underpriced item. It circumvents one of the major drawbacks to wildshaping all day, and does so by also over-ruling the rules on magic items morphing in to you when you shift. Thus this is underpriced.

The price is about right, if you add a Wildling Clasp to it. In the alternative, add in the features of the Wildling Clasp (and the associated cost) and you are in the realm of fairness.

OK, that makes much more sense. I don't have any of my books on me so I can't check on price, but yeah if the wilding clasp is 4000 like samthecleric says, then the mask should be that plus a little.

[Paul H]

Edit:

Melkor's quote: "This seems to disagree with you."

Hi

Quote refers to untrained animals without speech.

"A druid loses her ability to speak while in animal form because she is limited to the sounds that a normal, untrained animal can make, but she can communicate normally with other animals of the same general grouping as her new form. (The normal sound a wild parrot makes is a squawk, so changing to this form does not permit speech.)"

I wasn't talking about "...normal, untrained animals". The point is that with Master Many Forms you can change into intelligent forms. The quote obviously states "animals". If you change into an Elf you become dumb? 'Course not. Same with Trolls.

In this, as in everything, context is key.

Cheers
Paul H

[MeklorIlavator]

Edit:

Melkor's quote: "This seems to disagree with you."

Hi

Quote refers to untrained animals without speech.

"A druid loses her ability to speak while in animal form because she is limited to the sounds that a normal, untrained animal can make, but she can communicate normally with other animals of the same general grouping as her new form. (The normal sound a wild parrot makes is a squawk, so changing to this form does not permit speech.)"

I wasn't talking about "...normal, untrained animals". The point is that with Master Many Forms you can change into intelligent forms. The quote obviously states "animals". If you change into an Elf you become dumb? 'Course not. Same with Trolls.

In this, as in everything, context is key.

Cheers
Paul H

And I wasn't talking about master of many forms. I was referring to the underlined section of the post, before you mention master of many forms, where you say that you can still communicate as a druid as long as you have vocal cords. Looking back at it, if you mean that you can communicate in the old 1-growl-yea, 2-growls-no, then yes you can communicate, but for anything remotely complex(hit that orc hiding in the tree), you'd need to speak, use telepathy, or possibly sign language(though anything as complex as sign language would have to be worked out before hand in character).


P.S. You do know you can directly quote someone by using the "Quote" tab in the lower ringt hand corner of a post, right?

[graystone]

The easiest way for a wildshaped druid to talk is to take the feat Psicrystal Affinity. It requires a manifester level of one, so it does require multiclassing.

The psicrystal has these powers. "A psicrystal can speak one language of its owner’s choice (so long as it is a language the owner knows). A psicrystal can understand all other languages known by its owner, but cannot speak them. This is a supernatural ability." and "Telepathic Link (Su): The owner has a telepathic link with his psicrystal out to a distance of up to 1 mile." So all you do is ask your psicyrstal to translate for you.

If you take the shapeshifting druid and psion you can stay shapeshifted all day and communicate by character level 2.

[Lucyfur]

Multiclassing is highly undesirable, as is all the rest of the official ways around it. That's why I'm looking for custom ideas. Also, some ideas on how to convince your dm to allow it. Such as.

"I just want to chat with my homies. That'll increase role playing amirite?"

[Pie Guy]

Serve with fresh strawberries.

Mmmm... Strawberries

[graystone]

Multiclassing is highly undesirableYou only have to take one level in a class that gives you manifester levels.
IMO a one level dip isn't that big a deal.

However I was just looking at the complete psionic (page 48) and I found something interesting. For feats and prestige classes that require manifester levels (as opposed to manifesting levels) can use psi-like abilities to qualify. So if you take a race from the psionics book, you wouldn't have to multiclass to pick up the Psicrystal Affinity feat.