PDA

View Full Version : Question on [Chain Spell]



Angelmaker
2008-03-18, 07:19 AM
Hail, and well met, fellow gamers.

Iīve often read on these boards how useful range spell and chain spell are, and Iīve also found those metamagic feats to be highly entertaining, before reading about it here.

So, often in regards to chain spell, people say, you are "the king of buffing". This brings me to my question.

In the description of chain spell (if I remeber correctly - it has been a while since I last played my mystic theurge ( yeah, I know - "itīs a trap" :D) ) it says, that secondary targets are only affected by half the effect. So, if itīs damage, they only take half the damage, for example.

So, this effectively means, that a catīs grace spell only bestows half the bonus. Exactly? Also, what about the duration of the spell - itīs halfed also, am I right?

So, how, I ask you, do you think you could support your group best with chained spells? Since most of the time, it isnīt worth the time to consider a +2 attribute boost.

Cheers,
Myself. :smallbiggrin:

Starbuck_II
2008-03-18, 07:44 AM
So, often in regards to chain spell, people say, you are "the king of buffing". This brings me to my question.

In the description of chain spell (if I remeber correctly - it has been a while since I last played my mystic theurge ( yeah, I know - "itīs a trap" :D) ) it says, that secondary targets are only affected by half the effect. So, if itīs damage, they only take half the damage, for example.

So, this effectively means, that a catīs grace spell only bestows half the bonus. Exactly? Also, what about the duration of the spell - itīs halfed also, am I right?

Um, damage=not a effect.

If it causes a effect the DC is lowr instead.

Chain has two things wit it:
1) If the chain spell usually has a save and doesn't deal damage, it just have a -4 to DC.
2) If it deals damage than 1/2 the damage the origninal took.

Example:
Chaining Hold Person:
Primary target full DC, secondaries get -4 to DC (so easier tro make save).



So, how, I ask you, do you think you could support your group best with chained spells? Since most of the time, it isnīt worth the time to consider a +2 attribute boost.

Cheers,
Myself. :smallbiggrin:

I chain Greater Magic Weapon myself.

Tyger
2008-03-18, 07:45 AM
Sorry, that's incorrect.

The feat specifies that if the spell does damage, the damage is halved. It says nothing about non-damaging effects, other than that those with saves get a decrease in the save DC (or a bonus to their saves, depending on how you want to look at it). So a Chained Reached Cat's Grace will hit the appropriate number of targets, all of whom will get +4 to their Dexterity.

EDIT: Damn you Starbuck ninja! :)

Angelmaker
2008-03-18, 08:01 AM
Well, thanks you cleared that up for me.

Greatly appreciated. I think, I just assumed, that by halved effects on damaging spells, there had to be a downside using it on other kind of spells.

Really, really, to both of you, my greatest thanks. Though I kind of feel a little stupid, :smallsigh: though enlightened, now. :smallsmile:

Cheers.

Tyger
2008-03-18, 08:13 AM
Well, the downside to it (for buffing) is that in order to really make it work, you need to either also use the Reach Spell feat (becuase it doesn't work on touch spells) or have some other way to do it, like the Reach High Arcana from the Archmage class. Which of course, is one of the reasons that people take Archmage. :smallwink:

Added to that, many spells already have "mass" versions which cast at the same level as a Chained, Reached spell. Hold Person (Chained & Reached) and Hold Person, mass are the same level. But the second one has a higher DC and doesn't give the bonuses to save that the first does. Ditto all the stat boosting spells. Which again, is why Reach Arcana is so highly prized.

ShneekeyTheLost
2008-03-18, 08:27 AM
However, Chain Spell can be even *MORE* fun for a Cleric than an Arcane Caster.

Here's what you do:

DMM Chain Spell. Now you're blowing Turn attempts for Chain spells...

DMM Chain GMW. DMM Chain Reach Magic Vestments (or use the Divine Reach from Heirophant). DMM Chain Mind Blank (from Mind domain). Duration on all these spells are hours/level or flat 24 hours.DMM Chain Reach Death Ward is handy if you find yourself face to face with a lot of level draining or death effects to protect the whole party at once. DMM Chain Reach Heal to pick the whole party up.

Angelmaker
2008-03-18, 08:50 AM
Thanks Tyger, Shneekey.

I will keep that in mind - those are some good examples. Since mystic tīs dont progress that fast in spell levels as single casting classes ( which i donīt mind, because frankly "I have more spells than you have hitpoints" *chuckles* ), that will fit nicely in the campaign, me thinks.

Hooray for metamagic. :smallbiggrin:

One question though: What exactly is the meaning of the abbreviation "DMM"? I may be familiar with the meaning, though still the full written out version of "DMM" eludes me.

Tyger
2008-03-18, 09:02 AM
DMM = Divine Metamagic

ShneekeyTheLost
2008-03-18, 10:02 AM
Thanks Tyger, Shneekey.

I will keep that in mind - those are some good examples. Since mystic tīs dont progress that fast in spell levels as single casting classes ( which i donīt mind, because frankly "I have more spells than you have hitpoints" *chuckles* ), that will fit nicely in the campaign, me thinks.

Hooray for metamagic. :smallbiggrin:

One question though: What exactly is the meaning of the abbreviation "DMM"? I may be familiar with the meaning, though still the full written out version of "DMM" eludes me.

I apologise. As the previous person said, it stands for Divine Metamagic.

In short, it is a Feat in Complete Divine which allows you to blow a number of Turn attempts = (spell level adjustment of the metamagic feat) + 1 to be able to cast that spell with that metamagic feat applied, without increasing the spell level of the spell.

I warn you now: Mystic Theurge is a TRAP. You get more spells than hit points, and every single one of them suck. You *NEVER* get 9th level spells, and one of the two classes won't even get 7th.

Squash Monster
2008-03-18, 10:45 AM
I warn you now: Mystic Theurge is a TRAP. You get more spells than hit points, and every single one of them suck. You *NEVER* get 9th level spells, and one of the two classes won't even get 7th.What?

Cleric 3 / Wizard 3 / Mystic Theurge 10 / Wizard 4 gets 9th level wizard spells and 7th level Cleric spells.

It's still a trap, but you do get 9th level spells. It's three level late, though, which is why it sucks.

As a side note: if your Mystic Theurge is based off Druid instead of Cleric, it works much better. Druid qualifies you for Arcane Hierophant which does everything that Mystic Theurge does and more. Better still, when you run out of Arcane Hierophant levels you can finish your build with 4 levels of Mystic Theurge and get 9th level spells on both sides.

And as another note: if you're evil you can use a build like:
Wizard 10 / Ur-Priest 2 / Mystic Theurge 8
Which gets you maxed out spells in Ur-Priest (as good as maxed out Cleric) and casting as an 18th level wizard (9th level spells and slightly more of them than the cleric route).

Chronos
2008-03-18, 02:42 PM
What we see here is a splendid example of shortsightedness. When the designers created this feat, they knew they needed some sort of drawback to balance it, so they put in the half damage and easier save clauses. But they apparently forgot entirely about buff spells, to which neither is applicable.


...Ur-Priest (as good as maxed out Cleric)Well, yes and no. You get 9th level spells, but not very many of them, and you don't get domain spells at all.

And Schneekey, wouldn't the Protection domain be an easier source of Mind Blank than the Mind domain?

Swooper
2008-03-18, 09:02 PM
Wouldn't that build have only CL 10 for Divine spells, too? I don't remember a clause in the Ur-Priest description that says they get 2 CLs for every level, and even if it did, it wouldn't apply to other PrCs advancing Ur-Priest casting would it?

...I would look it up but it's 2 AM and I can't be bothered :smalltongue:

Chosen_of_Vecna
2008-03-18, 09:33 PM
Wouldn't that build have only CL 10 for Divine spells, too? I don't remember a clause in the Ur-Priest description that says they get 2 CLs for every level, and even if it did, it wouldn't apply to other PrCs advancing Ur-Priest casting would it?

...I would look it up but it's 2 AM and I can't be bothered :smalltongue:

Ur Priest CL=Ur-Priest advancement + 1/2 All other spellcaster classes.

The wording is specific but what it basically means is that,

Wizard 5/Mindbender 1/Ur-Priest 2/Mystic Theurge 8/Wizard PrC 4 casts as

CL 18 for Wizard
CL 19 Ur-Priest