Isn't it time for Belkar to die? [Archive] - Giant in the Playground Forums

Bongos

2008-03-18, 02:30 PM

Tempest Fennac

2008-03-18, 02:54 PM

I think he'll probably be around for a while yet (he is a funny character, so I don't think Rich would kill him off too soon. Admittedly, when he does die, he'll probably be staying in the Abyss considering what the other characters thin of him).

PirateMonk

2008-03-18, 03:02 PM

shakes019

2008-03-18, 03:04 PM

I think that Belkar is going to be around for some time as well. He hasn't really had much story to him; just the psychopathic killer who acts as a foil for the rest of the group, but can also be relied upon to destroy the enemy.

I doubt that we'll get more backstory for him either, but he'll continue to be in the middle of the cast, consistently getting punch lines without truly advancing the story.

ETA: In response to the question of whether or not Belkar would be raised by the rest of the group. Despite Belkar's assessment of Durkon as a sucker, without some secondary need or motivation, the group would not attempt to revive Belkar.

Bongos

2008-03-18, 03:18 PM

Tempest Fennac

2008-03-18, 03:26 PM

I have to agree with what shakes019 said on the subject (the group could just decide to replace him with someone reliable and optimised if he died, but he is too valuable joke-wise to lose too soon).

Quorothorn

2008-03-18, 03:30 PM

I don't know guys, the Seer really didn't think Belkar would be around much longer

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0329.html

That is some serious foreshadowing for an Author to write...

...it just seems with the current situation Belkar's time might be near.:smalleek:

The Oracle implied that Belkar gets at least one more (probably just one more) birthday amongst the living, so...has he had a birthday since then?

But personally I just hate all "future-seeing" style things anyway, so yeah.

PirateMonk

2008-03-18, 05:01 PM

ETA: In response to the question of whether or not Belkar would be raised by the rest of the group. Despite Belkar's assessment of Durkon as a sucker, without some secondary need or motivation, the group would not attempt to revive Belkar.

I have to agree with what shakes019 said on the subject (the group could just decide to replace him with someone reliable and optimised if he died, but he is too valuable joke-wise to lose too soon).

The Order fairly clearly expresses at least some loyalty to him here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0285.html), though.

Kish

2008-03-18, 05:11 PM

The Order fairly clearly expresses at least some loyalty to him here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0285.html), though.
I wonder whether they would have done so if it hadn't been that, or agree with Miko.

ref

2008-03-18, 05:11 PM

IMHO It's been for like 540 strips, but oh well... :smallbiggrin:

Alex Warlorn

2008-03-18, 05:44 PM

He doesn't have long to live.

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0329.html

It can be argued he has caused Roy's death, fulfilling that prophesy. Now that he's roaming the countryside committing murder and the Mark of Justice on his head and all, the Sylph is against him, Haley can't stand him.....

Seems like the end is drawing close lil Belkar.:smalleek:

The Seer said that Belkar doesn't die until at least after his next Birthday (with CAKE), and that he won't live to die of old age. So Belkar's killing spree shall continue for some time yet.

Bongos

2008-03-18, 05:50 PM

So whens Belkars birthday? Tomorrow? When is anybody in Oots birthdays?
It could be Belkars birthday tomorrow, you never know....

reignofevil

2008-03-18, 06:07 PM

I doubt belkar is gonna kick it. For one thing Haley needs him now, so they wont kill him. For another did you see how many hobgobs he slayed when he declared himself god of war? If it was not for the MoJ he would have emptied the city by now.

Lunaya

2008-03-18, 06:24 PM

How do we know it's not the MoJ that will kill him? Either directly or by making him too weak to fight off the "bad guys".

David Argall

2008-03-18, 06:26 PM

The oracle says Belkar should not bother funding his old age savings account and should savor his next birthday cake, which gives us all sorts of ways to keep Belkar alive for the rest of the strip. He lives long enough for some birthday cake, which means he could live a quite long time if he never gets any. That could also mean he dies tomorrow, after going to somebody else's birthday party and eating some cake. But Belkar is a highly useful part of the story, and is therefore likely to live a lot more of the strip.

reignofevil

2008-03-18, 06:40 PM

The MoJ wont kill him because he is smart enough to know not to kill in a city. And I doubt he will be fighting any major baddies (linear guild being the exception. Maybe) before roy gets back.

factotum

2008-03-19, 03:46 AM

I think "savour his next birthday cake" is a euphemism...I think not even the Oracle is tricksy enough to say that Belkar actually has to eat a birthday cake before he dies. However, the visit to the Oracle was, what, about 4-5 months ago in comic time? Even if the Oracle wasn't being tricksy Belkar could still have around 18 months to live, depending on when his birthday is!

Alex Warlorn

2008-03-19, 01:08 PM

I'm betting the order is going to feel the bizzare subconscious desire to make sure Belkar has cake on his birthday, a feeling even they can not explain.

The Extinguisher

2008-03-19, 06:21 PM

Actually, the Oracle never says he's going to die. We just assume that. Remember, the oracle is a jerk.

Querzis

2008-03-19, 08:53 PM

Belkar is supposed to live to his next birthday but it is implied that he wont live to see his other birthday so his death could be in two seconds or 1 years and 8 months depending on when is his birthday. In 1 years and 8 months in the comic, we'll probably be at strip 2000 so I'm not worried about Belkar...off course, even if he would have died and gone to the abyss for century of torture I still woudnt be worried for Belkar but you get my point. In 1 years time in the comic, everyone BUT Belkar could be dead after all.

quiet1mi

2008-03-19, 09:03 PM

just to preset a new view....
a]what if he is born on a leap-year?
b]what if the calender system is different?

Nathander

2008-03-19, 09:54 PM

I wonder whether they would have done so if it hadn't been that, or agree with Miko.

I think it's divided, to a degree. Roy probably would have even if it had been someone other than Miko. There's a good chance, however, that V wouldn't have, as V basically stated s/he intervened because, while s/he hates Belkar, the hatred V feels for Miko is far greater. Unless the person threatening Belkar somehow made V hate that person as much as s/he hated Miko, I have a hard time believing V would have cared.

That being said, we don't really know when (or even if) Belkar would die. I don't believe he'll die anytime soon; however, I certainly wouldn't MIND seeming him finally die. While I don't dislike him nearly as much as I used to, I still wouldn't be heartbroken to see him go.

Ertier

2008-03-19, 10:05 PM

All of the oracle's predictions have an ironic twist. Durkon gets to return to his homeland... after he dies. Haley's question isn't answered; on account of the oracle not understanding it. Roy screws over his question. Elan gets a happy ending; which could be interpereted a number of ways. Belkar causes Roy's death, but not directly yadda yadda yadda...

Who knows, Belkar might die and then be raised; this would fufill the prediction.

someonenonotyou

2008-03-19, 10:15 PM

he probley will kick the bucket but one word "ressaretion"

Callista

2008-03-19, 10:34 PM

Wow... did somebody cast "Inflict Major Typo"? "Resurrection". Heh.

Anyway, I think Belkar will die and come back as undead--something that lusts for blood. Ghoul, maybe. That'd fit his personality.

The Extinguisher

2008-03-19, 10:46 PM

Theodoriph

2008-03-19, 11:19 PM

a) The oracle's comments can be interpreted a number of ways.
b) Given the context of the quotation, we don't even know if the oracle is telling the truth or just playing with them.

Alfryd

2008-03-19, 11:45 PM

The Oracle did answer Haley's question. Perfectly actually.
If you mean, 'technically accurate, with a bit of poetic license, in such a way as to be completely useless beforehand', then yes. Perfectly.

Halvormerlinaky

2008-03-20, 02:09 AM

Let's look at the rules:

1) PCs are darned hard to kill off. At least permanently. *cough* Roy (at this point).

I really don't have much more to add. Maybe if Belkar were an NPC, and didn't have a name, he'd be in trouble. But... you know, he's got a name. Also, he's got a LAST name. Also, he's not an NPC.

So, at worst, Belkar gets sent to another plane. If Rich is smart, it'll be Celestia, or whatever you want to call it, because, let's be frank, an evil, psychopathic halfling ranger in Celestia is simply synonymous with hysterical comedy.

Manga Shoggoth

2008-03-20, 04:13 AM

If you mean, 'technically accurate, with a bit of poetic license, in such a way as to be completely useless beforehand', then yes. Perfectly.

Which part of "oracle"...

ALL the predictions we have seen in OOTS (not just the Oracle's) have been like that. That is the whole point.

Underground

2008-03-20, 08:59 AM

Who knows, Belkar might die and then be raised; this would fufill the prediction. Well... no.

Because, guess what, Belkar would then be able to see OLD AGE.

As the Oracle says he should savor his next birthday cake, it seems to me that there will very likely be no second one. No raise dead, no nothing. Probably his body will be destroyed too much, which, in DnD, somehow is a reason for not being able to raise a person from the dead.

Alfryd

2008-03-20, 10:06 AM

ALL the predictions we have seen in OOTS (not just the Oracle's) have been like that. That is the whole point.
Well, yes, it's just that I'm not sure the Order really got their money's worth here.

Jonathan327

2008-03-20, 10:21 AM

The Oracle was something of a jerk. Belkar'd just insulted him. How do we know it was an honest prediction?

the_tick_rules

2008-03-20, 10:22 AM

All Oracles are lawyers on the side, masters of misleading language. Assuming the statement about appreciating next birthday cake= death is way too simple for a prophecy.

Alfryd

2008-03-20, 10:28 AM

Yeah, except that the Oracle didn't actually make a formal prophecy to that effect. It was a freebie given by way of conversation, in the secure knowledge that none of them would remember a thing afterwards. Why would he even bother to be cryptic?

Carne

2008-03-20, 10:42 AM

If "cake" is truly one of the death-fulfillment criteria, there is the distinct possibility that Belkar may not have cake on his birthday for many years to come. The prediction lacks specificity, thus Belkar's lifespan cannot be accurately predicted.

Felixaar

2008-03-20, 10:18 PM

So whens Belkars birthday? Tomorrow? When is anybody in Oots birthdays?
It could be Belkars birthday tomorrow, you never know....

It could have been Belkar's birthday at some point during the three unseen months between the Seige of the Azurites and Roy's watching of the resistance.

factotum

2008-03-21, 02:07 AM

It could have been his birthday the day after they walked out of Sunken Valley, for that matter...

Laurentio

2008-03-21, 02:37 AM

"Savor your next birthday cake" and "Wont see your old age" could be:
"You'll die before the next year"
"You will root in jail (no cakes) and won't survive to became old"
"You will became an undead (no taste sense, and no aging)"
"This campaign will stop before next year"
"You will came in spite of everyone, and nobody will ever again made a birthday party for you (still, you'll die before eldership)"
"You will repent for all your sins, became an eremit searching for the true light of knowledge. No more will you taste cakes or rich food, as you will just eat crude rice and rain. No more you'll age, as "Eremit" home-brewed prestige class give "no aging" at level three (and Bhudda +1 every other level)"
"You will be eaten by an acid-born whale"

Laurentio

pendell

2008-03-21, 04:47 AM

How about ...

Being consumed by the Snarl, being irrevocably destroyed ?

Or how about

Gets killed, goes to the abyss, kills his way to rulership of the Abyss and ascends as the Lord Cyric equivalent.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

Tempest Fennac

2008-03-21, 04:50 AM

Those are both interesting thories. I can see the 2nd one being slightly more likely to happen considering how Belkar isn't likely to put himself in harms way.

Roc Ness

2008-03-21, 05:25 AM

It looks like he is gonna get killed by snarl. I mean, some things about the Scribble and the Stick are way to similar. Haley likes Elan, Sereni likes Girard.

Perhaps as part barbarian, he is gonna get killed by snarl.

Or maybe Durkon will get killed the way Soon's wife did and be buried at his homeland?

Dorukan does share the same attitude to magic and frivolity as V

Tempest Fennac

2008-03-21, 05:29 AM

I don't think the Snarl will kill more then 1 person, but I'd guess that it would be Durkon.

Spoiler.

Admittedly, I think the Snarl will get out of the rift in Durkon's homeland considering the prophersy about him bringing disaster when he returns there.

Roc Ness

2008-03-21, 06:58 AM

Yeah, I guess it is Durkon the snarls gonna kill but then who'd put snarl back in? Belkar who "becomes powerful than you could possibly imagine?" Or maybe MitD is son of snarl, part 2:smallbiggrin:

Leewei

2008-03-21, 01:39 PM

My spoilerized thoughts:

The Belkster will probably finally do something that will make Durkon refuse to bring him back from the dead. And then he'll die. Alternately, he'll achieve a heroic and redeeming death for all the wrong reasons, and Durkon will be unable to bring him back due to Thor's -- or maybe Roy's -- disapproval.

Emanick

2008-03-21, 01:58 PM

Yeah, I guess it is Durkon the snarls gonna kill but then who'd put snarl back in? Belkar who "becomes powerful than you could possibly imagine?" Or maybe MitD is son of snarl, part 2:smallbiggrin:

Durkon couldn't return to his homeland posthumously after his body and soul had been destroyed, though.

Tempest Fennac

2008-03-21, 02:10 PM

Kim Soon's wife's body survived (it was just her soul which was destroyed).

KazilDarkeye

2008-03-26, 12:37 PM

One slight point, how do we know that the Mark of Justice still works now Roy is dead?
Belkar didn't take any chances, but we still don't know for sure.

factotum

2008-03-26, 12:52 PM

There isn't any reason to assume the Mark does NOT work. It's not like Roy cast it himself, after all, in which case you'd expect its duration to end with his death.

Bunlett

2008-03-26, 03:28 PM

It might be that he has more than one birthday to look forward to before he dies(if he does). Or perhaps someone will cast Blindness on him; that way, he won't see old age :smallwink:

Still, I hope he doesn't die, I think he's quite funny for a murderous halfling with deep seated emotional problems and ridiculous sense of logic.

Darkhands

2008-03-26, 03:39 PM

I still think the MoJ is fake... A useless spell cast to trick Belkar into behaving. When he finds out, he's going to go nuts! :)

Bunlett

2008-03-26, 03:48 PM

If the mark of justice was fake, wouldn't Roy have said something when Miko was charging Belkar? It doesn't seem like Roy would let him get killed just to keep him believing in the mark :smallconfused:

KazilDarkeye

2008-03-26, 04:54 PM

There isn't any reason to assume the Mark does NOT work. It's not like Roy cast it himself, after all, in which case you'd expect its duration to end with his death.

It is possible that the Matk of Justice was keyed to Roy's soul rather than his body, and informed characters like the Sapphire Guard know that the soul would travel a LONG way after someone dies, so it is POSSIBLE that the Mark has stopped working.

N.B POSSIBLE, not DEFINITE or even PROBABLE

Ruduen

2008-03-26, 06:06 PM

Of course, the major point of argument now is the wording.

"Well, I'm just thinking he should savor his next birthday cake."

So, of course, the question is if he'll have cake during his next birthday. However, just because that's a bit of foreshadowing, it's impossible to tell the total implications. Maybe he just won't have cake afterwards.

Roc Ness

2008-03-27, 12:54 AM

I just finished reading Chamber of Secrets again. Perhaps we misunderstood the oracle. :smallconfused: I have another, different theory.

The oracle said BELKAR woulndn't live to see old age. But BELKAR is a wanted criminal in many places. So say BELKAR changed his name permanently to something like BILBO for example. Then BELKAR might not see old age but BILBO still would. It also means Rich wouldn't need to permanently break up the order to soon. Doesn't this fit in? :smallamused:

Kish

2008-03-27, 04:28 AM

The oracle said BELKAR woulndn't live to see old age. But BELKAR is a wanted criminal in many places. So say BELKAR changed his name permanently to something like BILBO for example. Then BELKAR might not see old age but BILBO still would. It also means Rich wouldn't need to permanently break up the order to soon. Doesn't this fit in? :smallamused:
Since the Oracle called him "the halfling," not "Belkar," and since he would still have multiple birthday cakes and a use for an IRA with a different name, no.

KazilDarkeye

2008-03-27, 05:09 AM

That sounds like a job for a Polymorph spell

titan_monarch

2008-03-27, 06:49 AM

I think the Oracle was just being a jerk: since it wasn't a proper in-green-speech prediction, it might not come true at all. Also, he said Belkar should savor his next birthday cake, but didn't say anything about there being no birthday cakes after the next one, so he didn't really specifically answer Roy's question "Did you just imply that Belkar isn't going to live to see old age?" [/$0.02]

The Extinguisher

2008-03-27, 11:13 AM

I still think the MoJ is fake... A useless spell cast to trick Belkar into behaving. When he finds out, he's going to go nuts! :)

If that were true, I'd have to severly doubt Roy's mental facilities. I mean, what's worse: A pissed off Belkar who can't really do anything about it, or a pissed off Belkar who discovers that he actually can?

Prowl

2008-03-30, 01:16 AM

factotum

2008-03-30, 01:22 AM

I got the feeling the Oracle was just being mean and obnoxious by saying that, rather than it being a prediction. He didn't get paid to say the IRA and birthday cake lines - his other predictions WERE paid for.

Start of Darkness spoiler:

When Eugene Greenhilt goes to the Oracle to find out Xykon's location, the first thing the Oracle says to him is, "Hey, it's Ghost Dad!". Eugene didn't remember this, and the Oracle obviously wasn't paid to say it, but it was nonetheless an accurate prediction.

Pocketa

2008-03-30, 01:25 AM

He can just be brought back though, right?

Lunaya

2008-03-30, 02:10 AM

Not if his body is destroyed or disappears.

Pocketa

2008-03-30, 02:13 AM

Make a new one?

Lunaya

2008-03-30, 02:29 AM

Hmm...now that might work.

We can rebuild him! We have the magic. We can make Belkar stronger, faster, taller! I betcha he would go for that in a heartbeat.

Pocketa

2008-03-30, 02:31 AM

Let's just put him in hibernation for a few millenia, let the continents shift (bear with me here) so he ends up in Japan, where he will be worshipped as a God of Cosplay and DnD and RPG (basically, world) and they shall build him a beautiful giant robot suit.

Like Samus.

Lunaya

2008-03-30, 02:49 AM

I like the way you think. XD

Pocketa

2008-03-31, 10:41 AM

If we made him everyone's avatar, he'd never die!

Surfing HalfOrc

2008-03-31, 10:59 AM

That's why I think the Snarl will end up getting Belkar... As long as there is a soul, even as blackhearted and dripping of evil as Belkar's is, you can come back. Once the soul is destroyed, there is no return.

zuzak

2008-04-02, 09:30 PM

I don't think that Belkar can be blamed for Roy's death. The only connection would be Belkar giving Roy the ring of jumping, but if it weren't for Belkar, Roy would have probably gotten the ring of jumping.
#130 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0130.html)
I don't think V, Haley, or Elan would have chosen it over their treasures, but Roy would have.

In addition, the oracle was a little ambiguous. "Shouldn't bother funding his IRA" could imply that he won't be able to collect it because he'll be wanted criminal by the people in charge of the IRA. Or, perhaps, the nation in charge could be destroyed by Xykon, or have to pay a huge national debt, or whatever. The expression (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0329.html) the oracle has when he says, "He should savor his next birthday cake" could mean that he was only provoking Belkar. As mentioned, it could mean any number of things.

Seeing as Miko, Roy, "Miko's stupid horse," and V are all dead or inaccessable (and the oracle is insignificant now), I think he's got a good while.

Callista

2008-04-02, 10:38 PM

Not if his body is destroyed or disappears.True Resurrection still does it, but Durkon can't cast that yet, though he could use a scroll of it.

Admiral_Kelly

2008-04-02, 10:55 PM

My theory? The Oracle's theory holds true; Belkar gets Killed Off For Real within the course of the comic. I doubt he will die anytime soon; since he still has one more birthday (then would be the time to start speculating his death).

Crazeemeel

2008-04-02, 11:14 PM

I don't know if this has been mentioned since I don't feel like reading all of these posts.

I think that whether or not Belkar's time is coming doesn't matter because he is part of the OOTS (meaning the adventuring party, not the story itself) and even if he does die soon Rich would have the time of his life showing Belkar in the abyss in the same way that he has had such a good time with Roy in the Upper Planes.

Belkar is part of this story, and always will be.