Arena Tournament, Round 33: Kor vs Stonefist

[ArenaManager]

Arena Tournament, Round 33: Kor vs. Stonefist

Map:
http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee221/Kyace/glasshouse.png


XP Award: 300 XP
GP Award: 300 GP

Kor Battleborn - Bayar (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheets/view.php?id=42319)
docnessuno - Stonefist (http://www.coyotecode.net/profiler/view.php?id=3204)

All Combatants, please roll initiative.

[Bayar]

Initiative: [roll0]

Lets see if I solved some of my "errors" from the last match.

I buy a sling and bullets. Still thinking if I need anything else...

Edit: you might want to add that bonus to Init from your aggresive trait on your sheet.

[docnessuno]

Sheet updated
Purchase Large Masterwork Greatsword [Feel the pain!]

[roll0]

[docnessuno]

Start in B13

[Bayar]

heh, wanted to buy one myself...later. So, continue with your turn...

[docnessuno]

your starting position?

[Bayar]

Y13 is my start location.

[docnessuno]

Uff it is the 3rd time i try to post this:

My action:
2x move to M12, drawing my greatsword

Free action:
Scream: Let's see wo hits harder greenskin!

Stats:

HP:17/17 | AC:11 To:8 FF:12 | Fo:5 Re:-1 Wi:5
Position:M12 | Hands:Greatsword | M.Rage:-


Done

[Bayar]

Kor Battleborn - Round 1

Double-move to O12.

Seems that we switched our starting locations :smallbiggrin: .

Your petty insults will be the end of you. :smallannoyed: Unlike you, I can defend myself better. Your only advantage is your great anger. Whereas honor is my ally.

done

Stats:
HP: 14/14
AC: 15 T: 11 FF:14
Rage: Not activated
Speed: 40

[docnessuno]

My action:
move to N7
Ready an action

Readied action:

If he comes within 15ft i rage


Stats:

HP:17/17 | AC:11 To:8 FF:12 | Fo:5 Re:-1 Wi:5
Position:N7 | Hands:Greatsword | M.Rage:-


Done

OOC: Didn't you notice? i talk in blue text you do in red.. If SW taught us something is that red guys are the evil ones so are bound to lose! :smallbiggrin:

[Bayar]

OOC: readying an action to what? Rage? heh, so predictable.

Sling attack you. (yeah, i forgot to mention I have my sling in my hands...)

Attack: [roll0]
Damage: [roll1]

Then I move to Q15, ending my turn.

Take that swine !

Stats:
HP: 14/14
AC: 15 T: 11 FF:14
Rage: Not activated
Speed: 40

[docnessuno]

hem sorry but i acted thinking you were empy-handed, since neither in your sheet nor in this topic there is a note of any weapon wielded. I'll get a ref

[Bayar]

Sry, forgot about it...and why should I note on my sheet what weapon I am wielding ?

[docnessuno]

Well, for this time i'll live with it, since i saw i just need a 5+ to end this match

Free action:
Rage

Full round action:
Charge to R13 and strike you!

Note: here's why i can charge


You must have a clear path toward the opponent, and nothing can hinder your movement (such as difficult terrain or obstacles). Here’s what it means to have a clear path:
First, you must move to the closest space from which you can attack the opponent. (If this space is occupied or otherwise blocked, you can’t charge.)
Closest space is R13, since i gain reach
Second, if any line from your starting space to the ending space passes through a square that blocks movement, slows movement, or contains a creature (even an ally), you can’t charge. (Helpless creatures don’t stop a charge.)
Path from N7 to R13 is clear
If you don’t have line of sight to the opponent at the start of your turn, you can’t charge that opponent.
I do have LoS (i don't have LoE)


Charge strike:
[roll0]
If treath:
[roll1]
If hits:
[roll2]
If crits add:
[roll3]

Stats:
HP:10/19 | AC:6 To:3 FF:7 | To:7 Re:-1 Wi:7
Position:R13 | Hands:Greatsword | M.Rage: 1/9

[docnessuno]

Barely enough to hit, but i think that 23 damage means you are down

[Bayar]

Sorry, you cant charge since the glass impedes your movement...you would pass through a glass panel to reach me. Even with large size...and if you can strike from that place, I get cover (+4 AC).

Edit: and clarify exactly how you are placed on the map, since large shape occupies 4 squares, not 1.

Edit 2: yup, I definately have cover, triple-checked.

[docnessuno]

I can, and i have already stated why, to charge i need:

To move to the closest square from wich i can attack you (that is R13)
To have al clear path to that space (not to you)
To have LoS (not LoE) to you (i do)

[Bayar]

yes, but I get +4 AC due to cover. Tell me your location on the map. This match is not over.

[docnessuno]

Also, if i do occupy a 2x2 (don't have mountain rage under me right now so i cannot 2xcheck), i must be in square ranging from R13 to Q12 (this is the closest one from wich i can attack you).

Before tou rise other questions i'll explain why you don't have any cover:



When making a melee attack against a target that isn’t adjacent to you (such as with a reach weapon), use the rules for determining cover from ranged attacks.


Such rules are:


To determine whether your target has cover from your ranged attack, choose a corner of your square. If any line from this corner to any corner of the target’s square passes through a square or border that blocks line of effect or provides cover, or through a square occupied by a creature, the target has cover (+4 to AC).


I chose S-E Corner.
No lines from that corner pass trought a wall to reach any corner of your square.

[Bayar]

do you have a reach weapon ?

[docnessuno]

No, i have REACH, since i'm large

and as clearly stated in my previous post, ranged rules apply when making melee attacks to any non-adjacent target (and you are not adjacent to me). Reach weapons are just an example (the most common case for standard PC)

[Bayar]

will let a high ref rule on that. Either way, it is my fault for not going further from the glass...

Just dont think it should be valid, since half of you is behind a glass panel...
Q12-R13 hmm?
And it says any SQUARE. so the best one would be R13. So cover for me.


Big Creatures and Cover
Any creature with a space larger than 5 feet (1 square) determines cover against melee attacks slightly differently than smaller creatures do. Such a creature can choose any square that it occupies to determine if an opponent has cover against its melee attacks. Similarly, when making a melee attack against such a creature, you can pick any of the squares it occupies to determine if it has cover against you.

[docnessuno]

missed that part, but it does make no difference.

I still use the ranged rules to determine cover, so i just chose R13 as before and you still have no cover.

Also would you please read what i post?



choose a corner of your square

[Bayar]

slightly differently than smaller creatures do

:smallbiggrin:

[Talic]

High Ref Talic


Big Creatures and Cover

Any creature with a space larger than 5 feet (1 square) determines cover against melee attacks slightly differently than smaller creatures do. Such a creature can choose any square that it occupies to determine if an opponent has cover against its melee attacks. Similarly, when making a melee attack against such a creature, you can pick any of the squares it occupies to determine if it has cover against you.


You must move before your attack, not after. You must move at least 10 feet (2 squares) and may move up to double your speed directly toward the designated opponent.

You must have a clear path toward the opponent, and nothing can hinder your movement (such as difficult terrain or obstacles). Here’s what it means to have a clear path. First, you must move to the closest space from which you can attack the opponent. (If this space is occupied or otherwise blocked, you can’t charge.) Second, if any line from your starting space to the ending space passes through a square that blocks movement, slows movement, or contains a creature (even an ally), you can’t charge. (Helpless creatures don’t stop a charge.)

At the start of the action in question,
Kor is in Q15.
Stonefist is large, in N7-O8.

Stonefist attempts to charge. By the rules for charge, he must move directly towards his opponent, in Q15, and must move to the closest space from which he can attack. If this space is occupied, or otherwise blocked, he cannot charge. The closest space to Q15 from N7, moving directly towards his opponent, with 10 foot reach, is O12-P13. This square is completely blocked by glass wall. Thus, charge is not a legal action. At the very least, match will need to be rewinded to the start of Stonefist's action to allow correction of illegal action.


That said, for all opponents, it is imperative to list all important status conditions, as well as objects in hand, at the start of the match. This is especially true in any arena in which you have starting LOS to your opponent. Not announcing it provides an unfair advantage, as you can choose after round 1 what you're using. With your choice of weapons, it would have determined whether you had to use a move action to draw the sling, thus making further movement after the attack impossible. The strictest ruling would be if you don't announce anything in hand, you don't have anything in hand. This ruling, I'd like a second opinion on, before setting it in stone and rewinding a match, as it does set a rather large precedent for future matches.

[Neftren]

Referee Neftren

The above is ratified. As for the status conditions... well... I think that may be going a bit overboard, since most participants don't build for multi-weapon type combat. Most players will go for batman, shooty or melee. It's not my place to decide, but whatever.

Carry on.

[Talic]

High Ref Talic

As the posting of items in hand isn't, as yet, required, and the opponent didn't ask for the information, match will be rewound to the start of Stonefist's last round, to correct the charge. Sling attack stands.

Play continues from that point. Stonefist, you may continue when ready.

[Bayar]

While I am waiting for your redo of the turn, I was studying the mountain rage and I found something:


However, he does not gain additional benefits on weapon size and grapple checks since he already has them from his powerful build ability.

I now wonder, does that mean that you can wield weapons for medium creatures with no penalties (and that in your previous round the refs were wrong) and you cant wield weapons for large creatures without penalties (like in this match when attacking wth large greatsword) or that I simply misunderstood the description...

Edit: scratch that, your racial traits let you wield large weapons.

[docnessuno]

Uff i was pretty sure my action was totally correct

Redoing it:

Free action:
Rage, position changes from N7 to N7-O8

Move action:
Move to Q12-R13

Standard action:
Strike you:
[roll0]
If treath:
[roll1]
If hits:
[roll2]
If Crits add:
[roll3]

Basically same action as before, but i lose the +2 charge bonus

[Talic]

High Ref Talic

Kor is currently benefitting from cover. (Choosing square R13, using bottom right corner of that square, and drawing lines to each corner of Q15. Bottom right of R13 to top left of Q15 crosses a pane of glass. Thus, opponent has cover, and gains +4 AC)

That said, a 21 to hit should hit anyway. And the 18 damage should be enough to put Kor into the negatives. Unless there are any rules issues I missed...

Stonefist is declared the victor and receives the prizes noted above.

[docnessuno]

Well id doesn't matter (and i might be wrong) but shoulden't the attacker chose his corner for cover determination?

Else some pretty weird things are possible, example:
Character A (medium, reach from a spiked chain) is in B2
Character B (also medium) is in D2
A diagonal wall runs from E-F8 to H5-6, cutting out a small portion of the upper left B2 corner

With your statement Character B has ranged (and reach) cover from A, because lines from the upper-left corner of B2 cross a wall

[Bayar]

did you move 30 Feet or less?

[Talic]

High Ref Talic

The Move is exactly 30'.

As for the cover question, the attacker does choose his corner, on his square. but he must trace a clear line to all four corners of his opponent's square from that corner, otherwise, his target has cover. Your bottom right corner was your most advantageous. Tracing a line to all four corners revealed a Cover blockage when tracing to Kor's top left corner. That results in cover.


To determine whether your target has cover from your ranged attack, choose a corner of your square. If any line from this corner to any corner of the target’s square passes through a square or border that blocks line of effect or provides cover, or through a square occupied by a creature, the target has cover (+4 to AC).

[Bayar]

Ok. Well played. Yeah, it was my mistake not to let another 10 feet apart from the glass rim in the east side too, but that's life. Hope to kick your ass some other time :smallbiggrin:

[docnessuno]

Actually from R13 S-E corner i can draw unblocked lines to all of my opponent's corners

[docnessuno]

Ok. Well played. Yeah, it was my mistake not to let another 10 feet apart from the glass rim in the east side too, but that's life. Hope to kick your ass some other time :smallbiggrin:

Good game, since it's a 2x elimination we might even fight each other again in this round :D

Ah, and now i can say this:

Free BBQed Ork Chops for everyone!

[Bayar]

Free BBQed Ork Chops for everyone!

no. :smallannoyed: